Hoping to have Alliances fixed on Thursday

strumslinger

Hey all,

We know there are some major issues with some guilds unable to get into alliances. We're tentatively fixing this issue on Thursday, 6/9 among other bugs that have trickled through.

Thanks for bringing up these issues to us.

sorce

I get that devs need to sleep at some point as well, but some of the bugs are especially ground breaking - not being able to tend production plots is going to add extra days to when we can upgrade things (THC/TUC are already looking at a 46 day wait on Wood to get enough for different Rank 10 structures).

kolatmaster

@strumslinger

Thanks for the update Andy!

zibadawa

tousseau said:

Repetitive content, not withstanding, but the perception of apathy the game recieves from the developers... where is the pride?

Somewhere underneath a pile of cash, maybe?

arabatur

It's the same mistakes over and over again. I eagerly wait Mr Overmeyer's next open letter telling us everything is still all right, when clearly it's not because previous lessons are just not being learned.

taitinhakkaaja

Waiting few more days for alliance to work for all guilds. I think everyone can handle it.

mynaam

Thanks for the quick reply really hoping to finally get into the alliance on thursday

rapo973

I get demoralized: everytime the same story and I'm quite tired of this track record made of bugged contents.
I'm not sure everyone can handle it: my SH support structures are stuck, cannot upgrade anything.
This is another hit to the game and the company's image. I don't understand why they love dps-ing themselves so hard at 100% crit chance.
Concerning hope..."Things which you do not hope happen more frequently than things which you do hope." ~Titus Maccius Plautus

tassedethe13

strumslinger said:

Hey all,

We know there are some major issues with some guilds unable to get into alliances. We're tentatively fixing this issue on Thursday, 6/9 among other bugs that have trickled through.

Thanks for bringing up these issues to us.

Can you please give a Double AD event as compensation? It was supposed to be one on december remember ? We are still waiting for it.

It's a shame that a bug identified 2 weeks ago about guild who can't join alliance goes live when the core of the extension is about alliance.

So please consider giving us Double AD, thanks. And Yes, I will ask for it as long as we don't have it.

wildfirede

Just a reminder, issue was first reported on the 8th of May. way before going live. dissapointing.

zibadawa

tassedethe13 said:

It's a shame that a bug identified 2 weeks ago about guild who can't join alliance goes live when the core of the extension is about alliance.

Please, Cryptic never pays attention to bug reports made during the preview stage. Someone at corporate told the devs what date they're releasing this on, and they don't give a flying HAMSTER how broken and nonfunctional it is. And they made sure to reiterate that if they aren't spending all of their time working on the next thing then they're fired. Every bug that gets fixed is another brave dev that risked, and possibly lost, his job.

silence1x

wildfirede said:

Just a reminder, issue was first reported on the 8th of May. way before going live. dissapointing.

+1 although I don't remember seeing the "Tending to SH buildings" issue on Preview.

kvet

In all fairness, they acknowledged and fixed the bug last week - they just didn't really test whether their fix really worked which means while they fixed one bug, they either surfaced or created another one that was just as bad.

The problem, as far as I can tell, is that their testing is done without regards to real (virtual) world conditions. If they had taken me up on the offer of joining the Greycloaks preview guild and testing that way - that is, testing whether their fix worked on a guild that had actually reported the error - they would have known about this issue much sooner. However, Cryptic is generally against meaningful interaction with the playerbase beyond what Strumslinger does (not to knock strum, he's awesome - but dealing with the community is his job after all. I'm talking about everyone else at Cryptic). There's no good reason, if there are a cadre of players who are willing to go out of there way to help test and are willing to agree to an NDA if necessary and that have been shown trustworthy and mature time and time again for years, why Cryptic shouldn't take them up on their offers of assistance and be more interactive with them.

In the Preview thread, it was noted that Cryptic was aware there had been a GG issue but they thought they'd fixed it up until they started to pay attention to the bug reports on the community board. Simply put... if Cryptic was more willing to embrace the community, more than likely, THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. Why? Because they'd have been aware of an issue much earlier in the process than they were. By the time they paid attention, it was already far too late. That just makes me sad, to be honest.

wildfirede

@kvet I agree 100% with you, they should have a developer working closely with you since the day you reported it until it is 100% fixed - as it was/is breaking for the release. And in my previous post i had exaclty your topic from preview in mind.
You gave more feedback than a paid beta tester and the reaction to it was lackluster at best...


@silence1x

this was reported also 2-3 weeks ago here:

http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1216616/guild-hall-upgrade-to-lvl-2-not-possible#latest

- no upgrades or tendings possible to guilds wo an alliance.

blackyluke

kvet wrote: »

In all fairness, they acknowledged and fixed the bug last week - they just didn't really test whether their fix really worked which means while they fixed one bug, they either surfaced or created another one that was just as bad.

The problem, as far as I can tell, is that their testing is done without regards to real (virtual) world conditions. If they had taken me up on the offer of joining the Greycloaks preview guild and testing that way - that is, testing whether their fix worked on a guild that had actually reported the error - they would have known about this issue much sooner. However, Cryptic is generally against meaningful interaction with the playerbase beyond what Strumslinger does (not to knock strum, he's awesome - but dealing with the community is his job after all. I'm talking about everyone else at Cryptic). There's no good reason, if there are a cadre of players who are willing to go out of there way to help test and are willing to agree to an NDA if necessary and that have been shown trustworthy and mature time and time again for years, why Cryptic shouldn't take them up on their offers of assistance and be more interactive with them.

In the Preview thread, it was noted that Cryptic was aware there had been a GG issue but they thought they'd fixed it up until they started to pay attention to the bug reports on the community board. Simply put... if Cryptic was more willing to embrace the community, more than likely, THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. Why? Because they'd have been aware of an issue much earlier in the process than they were. By the time they paid attention, it was already far too late. That just makes me sad, to be honest.

This... So much this.
If I would be a Dev and I had to dig through forums or support tickets to find some of the actual issues, I'd probably prefer a nice glass of bleach with a little cocktail umbrella.
However, there are people out there who are testing on their own behalf, who play the game many many hours. Some of them are actually willing to help, rather than hunting the next bug that is abusable (maybe both in some cases).
Are there downsides to involving players? Sure, I could think of some, but I could also see a world were top of the patchnotes are not some UI bug but the fix that the community is luring for or were a module with some great content is not overshadowed by disfunctionality.
PC may be a good beta stage for the Xbox and soon the PS4, such a system doesn't sound like a fitting long term plan though.​​

instynctive

kvet said:

...there are a cadre of players who are willing to go out of there way to help test and are willing to agree to an NDA if necessary and that have been shown trustworthy and mature time and time again for years, why Cryptic shouldn't take them up on their offers of assistance and be more interactive with them.

I've been asking this for a long time. Even with an NDA, it's "complicated" and "legal reasons".

But I agree. Instead of the random(?) selection of Alpha testers, put together an actual team of players who can run the content without racing through it (my first run through the new CN was a speed run, which pissed me off.. I was there to find bugs and broken stuff).

Regardless, "trustees" and NDAs and thorough playtesting and bug reporting is all for nothing if the feedback isn't listened to, or acted upon. A lot of the preview threads are people bitching about the imbalance in PvP and how nerfed their character is. Even by color-coding "input" vs. "bugs" doesn't seem to help.

I should caveat this by saying that not all input is "ignored". There were some .. wording issues with some of the early Maze Engine stuff that I thought was.. inappropriate (not in a bad way)... and that change made it to Live, with my profound thanks.

And yes. Andy kicks all HAMSTER.

tassedethe13

The problem is that PC bugs hit XBox too ;o

stevedudeman

Yes please fix...

kvet

instynctive said:

I've been asking this for a long time. Even with an NDA, it's "complicated" and "legal reasons".

Yup, you and I both with the same response. I mean, I get the risks - I'm 40 years old and hold a senior level management position at a major software company... I really DO understand the potential legal risks.

But, the fact is, there are those of us that are a) not kids anymore, b) understand the concept of binding contracts (NDAs) and c) are willing and able to provide clear and useful feedback. Under those conditions, why not let us help in an advanced way? Not like we're asking for payment. Does there need to be a really solid and formal vetting process? Definitely! But impossible, or even impractical? Not at all.

If they're that concerned how about making those of us willing to help "unpaid interns" and binding us under a normal employee agreement? I'd be willing to consider such a thing if that's what it takes to prevent messes like this from happening. Heck, it would benefit me too, since I could put it on my resume

blackyluke

instynctive wrote: »

...there are a cadre of players who are willing to go out of there way to help test and are willing to agree to an NDA if necessary and that have been shown trustworthy and mature time and time again for years, why Cryptic shouldn't take them up on their offers of assistance and be more interactive with them.

I've been asking this for a long time. Even with an NDA, it's "complicated" and "legal reasons".

But I agree. Instead of the random(?) selection of Alpha testers, put together an actual team of players who can run the content without racing through it (my first run through the new CN was a speed run, which pissed me off.. I was there to find bugs and broken stuff).

Regardless, "trustees" and NDAs and thorough playtesting and bug reporting is all for nothing if the feedback isn't listened to, or acted upon. A lot of the preview threads are people bitching about the imbalance in PvP and how nerfed their character is. Even by color-coding "input" vs. "bugs" doesn't seem to help.

I should caveat this by saying that not all input is "ignored". There were some .. wording issues with some of the early Maze Engine stuff that I thought was.. inappropriate (not in a bad way)... and that change made it to Live, with my profound thanks.

And yes. Andy kicks all <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.

I like how being moderated on the forums (being to specific when reporting an exploit) and such can delete you from the Alpha Tester list. Meanwhile players who are alpha testers, were given immensely valuable information about lets say the Mount bonus system. People bought mounts and sell them for up to 10m+ profit and they are the first to grab of course. And while people are asked to not share I could find at least 3 videos of CN runs just 24hs after the Alpha test on youtube...

People aren't even asking for anything. It's not like: "Hey give us 1k Zen if we found a severe bug." (I see people commenting they would be rich now...)
Many are willing to help for nothing else, but the hope for a positive result.​​

instynctive

kvet said:

Heck, it would benefit me too, since I could put it on my resume

That is more than enough compensation for me as well. "Intern - Cryptic Studios". That has a nice ring to it.

I'm the same as you.. in my 40's, and while I lack that filter that some do between my brain and mouth, I take ALL playtesting very seriously. I didn't really start to pay attention to Preview Server stuff until the dreaded Mod 6... and there was a lot of chat in my guild about how people were taking the opportunity to level up and gear and exploit expound on the new OP class.

That conversation may still even be in my guild forum.

My words were "isn't the Preview Server meant to playtest the module and help the company launch a successful mod?" There were a smattering of responses that said "screw them.. they don't listen anyway."

*sadface*

When Strongholds was announced, I spent more time on Preview than I did in game. I was able to cobble together 5 volunteers to help test drive it. Even on preview, SH was plagued with issues (remember the "no bad guys on the map" for the first week or two?)... With only 5 of us testing it, we found bugs and "holes" and stuff.. a lot of them are still there. A lot of them were fixed. We're still waiting for access to the battlements (I'd search the forum again, but don't feel like it).

I skipped testing on Underdark because of the apparent lack of seriousness that feedback was taken on Mod 6 and on SH. I did jump in to Maze Engine stuff because a) I thought it was going to be a Foundry mod (YAYY!!) and b) I was invited to Alpha (but see my post above).

As for "Intern - Cryptic Studios"... yes.. I'm more than happy to undergo "vetting". I will freely admit that I used a "hero trainer" in Diablo (the first one), but after god-moding everything, decided that was stupid and boring and have never exploited or cheated in a game since then. Especially this one. This is my beloved D&D (kind of), and truly needs to be held in the highest esteem and dignity. Honor, camaraderie, cooperation, exploration... these are the basic tenants of D&D. Not epeen and exploits. That tells me there are just way too many WoW players here.

I love this game. I will keep playing it, and spending money on it, even at times that I want to uninstall it and throw my computer into the river. As I've said before: Neverwinter doesn't need to be "just another MMO." Cryptic has the ability to make this game into something incredible and fantastic... to truly raise the bar for all MMOs. To break free of the mold and truly excel.

But with a small staff and big ambitions, releases like this will continue to happen. Bugged to the point of being game-breaking (yes, unable to tend production structures and/or upgrade things is game-breaking to me), when there is an army of mature players (mentally and/or age-wise) who share my passion of D&D, and NW, and who want nothing more than for Cryptic to succeed.

Again... please guys.. @strumslinger @asterdahl @terramak @commanderander I'm begging you to let us help you.

silence1x

instynctive said:

Again... please guys.. @strumslinger @asterdahl @terramak @commanderander I'm begging you to let us help you.

While I'm in the same decade as you and kvet (but at the end of it), I support this statement above. There are any number of talented and motivated people that would gladly (and freely) test stuff, they would need to know that their time was treated as valuable and not just to check a box on some manager's spreadsheet or To Do list.

"Open preview server for player testing with new update" - check

"Ignore results of testing and push updates to Live" - check

beckylunatic

silence1x said:

wildfirede said:

Just a reminder, issue was first reported on the 8th of May. way before going live. dissapointing.

+1 although I don't remember seeing the "Tending to SH buildings" issue on Preview.

Not being able to interact with structures when not in an Alliance was reported, more frequently as upgrades being blocked, but it's the same mechanic in effect.

This is just one example:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1216616/guild-hall-upgrade-to-lvl-2-not-possible

kalina311

+1

zibadawa said:

tassedethe13 said:

It's a shame that a bug identified 2 weeks ago about guild who can't join alliance goes live when the core of the extension is about alliance.

Please, Cryptic never pays attention to bug reports made during the preview stage. Someone at corporate told the devs what date they're releasing this on, and they don't give a flying HAMSTER how broken and nonfunctional it is. And they made sure to reiterate that if they aren't spending all of their time working on the next thing then they're fired. Every bug that gets fixed is another brave dev that risked, and possibly lost, his job.