A SONIC damage powerframe and you

avianos

Let's be honest, the Sonic damage is one of the most underused damage types ingame (no Unleashed Rage and Power Chord don't count because they are ultimates)

The already existing sonic attacks are all over the place and have barely any relation and synergy with each other (Gadget, Archery, Brick, Infernal Supernatural)

I have no idea if DEVs are planning to a Sonic powerframe, there are a lot of potential powers (from both NPCs, players reskins and the old Power replacements) which could serve as addition

So im going to bring this subject into the community

• Should a Sonic powerframe be part of the Technology or the Energy Projector Framework family?
• @ CO Loremasters is there any Hero/Villain in the Champion universe who is using Sound Waves as primary power?
• Did anyone else really liked Shriek from the Batman Beyond cartoon? or the Ultimate Echo Echo from Ben 10?
  Or perhaps some other sonic damage dear character in the world of fiction you would like to share?
  
  https://youtu.be/8lKH2BpJ_JY
  This dude is the primary reason I created a Sonic-themed character, even his costume is darn amazing
  
  https://youtu.be/aXbAZzAID6I
  I really love how he is using those Discs to apply sonic damage
  
• What character would you create if you were given a Full Sonic-damage powerframe?

​​

spinnytop

More powers good.

legendarylycan

both frameworks, depending on from what source any given power's sonic waves are derived

you wouldn't stick a sonic bomb in energy projector, nor would you stick a sonic scream in technology​​

sterga

I've been playing Thorium (Terraria mod) which has a bard class. That's what I want to see as a sonic damage framework. They have all kinds of musical instruments: boomboxes, flutes, trumpets, wind chimes, guitars (playing not bashing), whistles, bongos, bagpipes, pianos, and more. It mostly focuses on buffs / debuffs, but it doesn't have to be that way for CO.

Not enough games have nice bard powers. And, no, I don't accept that "we don't have an animator" crap. Get Neverwinter to make it for some weird expansion and steal the assets for CO. D&D does have a bard class. It's not a stretch.​​

legendarylycan

they clearly DO have an animator, because they made a new animation for laser sword (aka lightspeed strike now) when they overhauled and split those powers off into their own powerframe, but it's probably not a dedicated one​​

nepht

I read Sonic and I thought the little blue psychopath said something legendary on twitter again....disappointment aside a proper sound based powerframe would be epic.

jonsills

Screams can be technological - check out the Flash/Arrow crossover episode where Cisco creates a Canary Cry device for the Black Canary.

Overall, I'd have to call it a variation on Energy Projection - which can be tech just as easily as mutant power or magic. Using a flamethrower is functionally equivalent to blasting fire out of your hands or summoning flame, after all.

aesica

I want a sonic framework that lets me use my guitars for something besides bashing in the skulls of bad guys. Death metal riffs for offense, power ballads for buffing and support.

​​

avianos

aesica wrote: »

I want a sonic framework that lets me use my guitars for something besides bashing in the skulls of bad guys. Death metal riffs for offense, power ballads for buffing and support.

sterga wrote: »

I've been playing Thorium (Terraria mod) which has a bard class. That's what I want to see as a sonic damage framework. They have all kinds of musical instruments: boomboxes, flutes, trumpets, wind chimes, guitars (playing not bashing), whistles, bongos, bagpipes, pianos, and more. It mostly focuses on buffs / debuffs, but it doesn't have to be that way for CO.

Not enough games have nice bard powers. And, no, I don't accept that "we don't have an animator" crap. Get Neverwinter to make it for some weird expansion and steal the assets for CO. D&D does have a bard class. It's not a stretch.

Hmm the Classic Bard trope in CO...
This could also fit under the Sorcerry Powerframe, perhaps with new powers which deal Half Magic Half Sonic damage

but on the other hand we also have Guitars for Heavy Weapons (with an Ultimate that doesnt belong in HW)

I agree, lets steal NWO assets like they stole our DEVs

also relevant for your amusement
​​

avianos

shadowfang240 wrote: »

both frameworks, depending on from what source any given power's sonic waves are derived

you wouldn't stick a sonic bomb in energy projector, nor would you stick a sonic scream in technology

You know this is a really good in the middle ground solution
Gadget framework is already a weird pony since it includes multiply different damage types (particle, sonic, crushing, toxic)

So Sonic becomes Energy Projector framework but Gadgets also get new powers and synergize with each other

and with the previous suggestions other frameworks could get Sonic and Music related powers to boost the synergies​​

spinnytop

There, got that out of the way.

Other sets having attacks with a damage type that other sets focus on isn't really anything new or outlandish. Munitions does fire damage with some attacks, while Fire is.. well Fire. Only issue I see with a Sonic power set is that they would pretty much have to make it from scratch except for 1 power, and there doesn't seem to me all that much inspiration to draw from... "Sonic super powers" is pretty much defined by somebody screaming at you loud enough to hurt you, and we have that with that one cone power and unleashed rage.

Bards are generally more of a magical thing and to me don't really scream "Sonic super hero".

avianos

nepht wrote: »

I read Sonic and I thought the little blue psychopath said something legendary on twitter again....disappointment aside a proper sound based powerframe would be epic.

spinnytop wrote: »

There, got that out of the way.

I dunno if I should be or relieved that I was expecting someone to make jokes about a certain porcupine when i was creating the thread
better get it off your system now I guess ​​

aesica

avianos wrote: »

I dunno if I should be or relieved that I was expecting someone to make jokes about a certain porcupine when i was creating the thread

What do porcupines have to do with sonic powers?​​

decorumfriends

I was able to cobble together two different sonic-based characters (Southern Bell, mostly gadgets, and Echo, with the Might-based sonics), but it was a struggle, and I wouldn't mind an actual sonic-based set at all.

avianos

aesica wrote: »

What do porcupines have to do with sonic powers?

decorumfriends wrote: »

I was able to cobble together two different sonic-based characters (Southern Bell, mostly gadgets, and Echo, with the Might-based sonics), but it was a struggle, and I wouldn't mind an actual sonic-based set at all.

I guess we are using identical builds then, because i had been playing with a Sonic dps character 5 years
Crescendo, I keep mentioning this guy again and again

Crescendo
v2.2.3-24

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Tempest (End: 10, Dex: 8, Ego: 10, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 9: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Wordly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 21: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Sonic Blaster
Level 1: Power Chord (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Sonic Device (Rank 2, Deafening Dissolution)
Level 8: Chilled Form
Level 11: Electric Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Sonic Boom Generator (Rank 2, Sonic Suppression Enhancer)
Level 17: Hyper Voice (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Bionic Shielding (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Neuroelectric Pulse (Recharge)
Level 26: Guard (Rank 2)
Level 29: Overdrive
Level 32: Vicious Descent (Work Up)
Level 35: Imbue
Level 38: Nanobot Swarm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Distortion Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Exploit Opening (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (2/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

The problem is, the build is using so many different powerframe powers (Gadget, Might, Heavy Weapon, Power Armour) that's its all over the place
The build has been retconed more 3 times with the revamps that effected each powerset
Hyper Voice is OK, but its not good for Boss battles, also some people will find the repel annoying (i apologize to all the Melee players who had to deal with this)​​

markhawkman

Actually, the counter-joke is that Sonic isn't a porcupine. The blue guy's a hedgehog.

spinnytop

Sonic the Blonic

aesica

markhawkman wrote: »

Actually, the counter-joke is that Sonic isn't a porcupine. The blue guy's a hedgehog.

Bingo. ​​

decorumfriends

avianos said:

Hyper Voice is OK, but its not good for Boss battles, also some people will find the repel annoying (i apologize to all the Melee players who had to deal with this)​​

I learned very quickly to go beyond the group and repel them INTO the battle instead of away from it.

avianos

Im just going to link the Sound Manipulation from the powerlisting.wikia for more examples of Sound usage in fiction

Also Sonic Healing, I was focused so much on the DPS potential of a possible powerframe that I forgot that it can be used for Support as well, and this trope applies on both Magic and Technology

Just like Power Chord can be used either as full DPS passive or Team Buffering, potentially the powerframe could also focus with debuffs and support

also TvTropes ruined my life

• Musical Assassin
• Magic Music
• Disco Tech
• The Power of Rock
• Make Me Wanna Shout

spinnytop wrote: »

Other sets having attacks with a damage type that other sets focus on isn't really anything new or outlandish. Munitions does fire damage with some attacks, while Fire is.. well Fire. Only issue I see with a Sonic power set is that they would pretty much have to make it from scratch except for 1 power, and there doesn't seem to me all that much inspiration to draw from... "Sonic super powers" is pretty much defined by somebody screaming at you loud enough to hurt you, and we have that with that one cone power and unleashed rage.

Sonic Grenades, Discs, Drones, BASS Cannon (I know you want it), Blasters, Use of Instruments
It's not limited in the EVERYBODY SCREAM trope

spinnytop wrote: »

Bards are generally more of a magical thing and to me don't really scream "Sonic super hero".

This is super hero game? :^) I thought it was Fantasy Kitchen Sink
Im pretty sure that If I search enough in DC and Marvel wikies, I will find a superhero/villain who fits the Bard trope​​

sterga

I was using a specific example of a bard class that has thing that could easily still be part of a sonic damage set. Boomboxes, sub-woofers, and rock guitars aren't exactly classic fantasy items. Hey, don't we already have a rock guitar power? Guess we should cut that out because it's just a poopy bard power in a super hero game.​​

decorumfriends

avianos said:

This is super hero game? :^) I thought it was Fantasy Kitchen Sink

Super-heroes have always been synonymous with "Fantasy Kitchen Sink". It's one of the things I love about it, ANYTHING can be shoe-horned in to fit.

theoriginalfive

If it were possible to have a badly singing bard set like Cacofonix, I'm all for it.

rtma

Well, Instruments for Technology and Bodily emanations for Projector set. o.3.o

avianos

On second thought, Sonic powerframe belongs in Technology with some powers being contributed to other frameworks (Magic, Heavy weapons)

Taking Foxi's comment into account, there aren't really much to do having sonic in energy projector, especially since might got Hyper Voice

Sonic Energy weapons and gadgets on the other hand, OH BABY

also Disoriented Debuff, I would make the poweframe taking advantage of the debuff, using it as main source of EU (Using sonic damage attacks against Disoriented enemies triggers the EU)

as well polishing current Sonic damage debuffs (Sonic Boom Generator's adv especially)​​

spinnytop

avianos said:

Sonic Grenades, Discs, Drones, BASS Cannon (I know you want it), Blasters, Use of Instruments

It's not limited in the EVERYBODY SCREAM trope

So... a bunch of stuff for/already in Gadgeteering? >.>;

When I picture sonic super powers I don't really envision "Look at this robot I made that makes noises"... I picture "I have the power to make noises". The robot one to me more seems like your power is being brainy and making things... like a guy who makes gadgets... like... oh I don't know a....
















INSPECTOR GADGET?!

markhawkman

Go go Gadget megaphone!

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

So... a bunch of stuff for/already in Gadgeteering? >.>;

When I picture sonic super powers I don't really envision "Look at this robot I made that makes noises"... I picture "I have the power to make noises". The robot one to me more seems like your power is being brainy and making things... like a guy who makes gadgets... like... oh I don't know a....

Well it could use Multiply animations from all the Technology powerframe
I mention Gun and Gadget types, but it could have powers which are Power Armour reskins, Munitions) so you can shoot a maintained Sonic waves out your hand like Concussor Beam​​

spinnytop

Gun and gadget stuff should just go into gadgeteering. Anything that goes into a "Sonic" framework should basically look like a Sonic Projector.

avianos

This is seriously more complicated, design wise, that I was expecting​​

spinnytop

I think it'd be neat if they reused the "multiple maintains" system that PA has for a Sonic framework, but tried a different slant on it. For example, imagine if the three maintains you could have going at once are: a pbaoe, a cone attack, and a cylinder attack, representing the idea that the sound has varying levels of intensity depending on how close to the "center of projection" it is, i.e. if you're directly in the path of the screaming it's loudest, but even being around the person screaming you're still affected, and right in front of them ( where all three attacks overlap ) would be the most intense. Also it would be neat if instead of being a "yuge dps" setup like PA, this was instead a debuffing setup. Makes sense since, while sonic attacks in media aren't necessarily portrayed as super damaging, they are often shown disabling targets. Stuns, snares, roots, damage output debuffs, and damage resist debuffs all seem like likely candidates here.

The set should also have non-multimaintain powers too, just like PA is now, so people can make sonic characters that don't use that particular setup.

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

I think it'd be neat if they reused the "multiple maintains" system that PA has for a Sonic framework, but tried a different slant on it. For example, imagine if the three maintains you could have going at once are: a pbaoe, a cone attack, and a cylinder attack, representing the idea that the sound has varying levels of intensity depending on how close to the "center of projection" it is, i.e. if you're directly in the path of the screaming it's loudest, but even being around the person screaming you're still affected, and right in front of them ( where all three attacks overlap ) would be the most intense. Also it would be neat if instead of being a "yuge dps" setup like PA, this was instead a debuffing setup. Makes sense since, while sonic attacks in media aren't necessarily portrayed as super damaging, they are often shown disabling targets. Stuns, snares, roots, damage output debuffs, and damage resist debuffs all seem like likely candidates here.

The set should also have non-multimaintain powers too, just like PA is now, so people can make sonic characters that don't use that particular setup.

I like this idea it could work with PA mechanics really well and still be original​​ as it own

eva1988

As much as i like the idea of new powers; i'm not sure sound would be my go-to choice...Honestly, i've been hoping for a plant framework of some kind for the elemental tab.

spinnytop

Sonic framework has one huge advantage over plant framework... and that is asset creation. Plant will require lots of complex animated models.

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

Sonic framework has one huge advantage over plant framework... and that is asset creation. Plant will require lots of complex animated models.

Powers reskins, Weapon skins, visual combinations, Old Power replacements and buggy power replacements, using PA as reference, Gadgets
Everything we need to create a sonic powerframe is already here in the code and can be recycled

For example take a look at this old Power Replacement Video @ 0:45
https://youtu.be/RRirb5Xq9Qw
the SONIC PR (U-BLC SCREECH OWL PISTOL) visuals are complety bugged when she is using Lead Tempest
HOWEVER this creates really interesting visuals, its like a sonic barrier, this alone has potential to be used for a power along with the animation of Two Gun Mojo

The game has limited DEVs and Resources, If anything a SONIC powerframe is more likely to happen than a WATER and PLANT powerframe at the current state by using existing assets

SONIC damage is really underused compared to other damage types, perhaps DEVs would like to balance this out in the future who knows, currently they are revamping broken frameworks (and boy I hope FORCE will get revamped really soon...)

a new powerframe deticated to it will open more character creation potential for sure​​

jonsills

spinnytop said:

I think it'd be neat if they reused the "multiple maintains" system that PA has for a Sonic framework, but tried a different slant on it. For example, imagine if the three maintains you could have going at once are: a pbaoe, a cone attack, and a cylinder attack, representing the idea that the sound has varying levels of intensity depending on how close to the "center of projection" it is, i.e. if you're directly in the path of the screaming it's loudest, but even being around the person screaming you're still affected, and right in front of them ( where all three attacks overlap ) would be the most intense. Also it would be neat if instead of being a "yuge dps" setup like PA, this was instead a debuffing setup. Makes sense since, while sonic attacks in media aren't necessarily portrayed as super damaging, they are often shown disabling targets. Stuns, snares, roots, damage output debuffs, and damage resist debuffs all seem like likely candidates here.

Back in the day, in 3rd-edition Champs, I had a character who had two attacks that launched simultaneously - a 12d6 plasma-based Energy Blast, and an 8d6 No Normal Defense STUN-Only Zero-Range sonic cone attack (defense being deafness or at least 10 points of PD armor covering the ears; the character himself was deaf, which was good as "zero-range" just meant the AoE began in the same hex as the character himself).

I'd love to be able to do something like that in CO.

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

Also it would be neat if instead of being a "yuge dps" setup like PA, this was instead a debuffing setup.

Actually you know what would be more awesome, if the SONIC powerframe toggles had 100% synergy with Power Armour Toggles

Would you allowed that? Think about it, you are going to have a powerframe with some indentical toggle mechanic powers like PA
if you use the same toggle system (Head, Shoulder, Chest ) you can have the powerframe have full synergy mechanics with it

You want to mix Particle Beams Toggles + Sonic Toggles?

• Overdrive allows it for energy managment
• The powers marked as Head, Shoulder, Chest willl allow it,
• Passives which boost Energy type damage will allow it (Electric Form, Quantum Stabilizer and Targeting Computer if it becomes part of the Technology famiky)

So basically you can make a powerframe that can stand alone and have good DPS AND have synergy with an another powerframe for interesting build combos

not to mention synergy with Gadgets​​

avianos

@ CO Loremasters is there any Hero/Villain in the Champion universe who is using Sound Waves as primary power?

Hmm, still no answer for this one
I guess i should post this question on the Pen and Paper RPG section of the forums in the future​​

stratluver

Just searching the internet I came across this http://www.writeups.org/howler-champions-rpg/

Hopefully someone more experienced with Champions gives you more information ​​

avianos

stratluver wrote: »

Just searching the internet I came across this http://www.writeups.org/howler-champions-rpg/

Hopefully someone more experienced with Champions gives you more information

HMMMM Howler, I like her thanks for replying
She has pretty Golded/Silver age super hero design

Howler’s sonic powers derive from the alien amulet she wears (a communications system central processing link, normally worn by a starship’s pilot or communications officer). It has merged with her human body and in the process granted her the ability to:

• project powerful blasts of focused sound
• disorient others with a perfectly-pitched screech
• protect herself with a sonic force field
• use sonic projections to propel herself through the air

She can absorb sound and use it to increase many of her own abilities as well.

​​

bulgarex

Howler is actually a supervillain, one of the oldest in the IP. Interestingly, two of the official Champions characters I can think of with sonic powers are connected to Howler in some way. A veteran member of the renowned Sentinels superhero team, Dr. Vox, gained a wide variety of sonic powers after being exposed to a brief burst of radiation from Howler's alien amulet. The powered-armor master villain, the Warlord, whose own technology is based on equipment salvaged from the same aliens who created Howler's amulet, recognized it from news footage of Howler. He surgically implanted alien com tech in one of his followers, who also gained sonic powers from the procedure, albeit less versatile than either super mentioned above. Warlord's follower is now code-named Warcry.

The leader of the supervillain team, Deathstroke, is called Requiem. He's a genetic mutant who commands formidable vocal sonic attacks, although they have no applications beyond offense. A French member of the European super-terrorist team, Eurostar, is a brilliant but blind inventor, who developed an armored battlesuit with sonar to compensate for his blindness, and gauntlets firing several types of sonic blasts. He's known as Ultrasonique.

All of the characters above are written up in the Champions Villains trilogy, except Dr. Vox who appears in Champions Universe: News Of The World.

[Reposted from the Champions Pen and Paper RPG sub-forum due to relevance.]

markhawkman

Hunnh, which alien race was that? unnamed?

bulgarex

The Hzeel.

You can look up post number six on this thread if you want to know more about them.

sandukutupu

Really? No one has said Silver Banshee?

spinnytop

sandukutupu said:

Really? No one has said Silver Banshee?

That's DC. I believe people were asking about the Champions universe.

beezeeze

I mean if we're just going to give a shout out to all sonic powers based heroes and villains Marvel has Banshee and Siren...
perhaps even Black Bolt? His most destructive ability is tied directly to his voice though I am not sure we can really call what he does with his voice an purely sonic attack...

spinnytop

Hulk yells pretty loud o3o

sandukutupu

spinnytop said:

That's DC. I believe people were asking about the Champions universe.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought this was pointing out all the sonic supers because he illustrated Shriek and Ultimate Echo Echo in the first post.
@avianos If you feel they should make a sonic super combat role, you should tell Cryptic. Write up a nicely worded letter (such as you did in your first post) and mail it to them; Cryptic Studios, 980 University Ave, Los Gatos, CA 95032

Don't send email or a petition as those don't impact as well as personal mail does. Petitions are more like "threats" and email says you really don't care. You could address it to the attention of the current Champions Development Team or maybe the CEO.

spinnytop

I mean... the devs read the suggestions forum... and other sections of the forums as well. No need to use...eh... what was that stuff called... pepper? ...I forget what old mail was made of, haven't seen it in years. It was made of like plants or something?

avianos

sandukutupu wrote: »

That's DC. I believe people were asking about the Champions universe.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought this was pointing out all the sonic supers because he illustrated Shriek and Ultimate Echo Echo in the first post.
@avianos If you feel they should make a sonic super combat role, you should tell Cryptic. Write up a nicely worded letter (such as you did in your first post) and mail it to them; Cryptic Studios, 980 University Ave, Los Gatos, CA 95032

Don't send email or a petition as those don't impact as well as personal mail does. Petitions are more like "threats" and email says you really don't care. You could address it to the attention of the current Champions Development Team or maybe the CEO.

I... have no intention to be do any of that, I created this thread so see the opinions of the members of the community about the subject
definitely not going so far to write email or sent a petition (online petitions never work anyway) no matter how much I love to see Sonic having its own powerframe

Besides, DEVs DO read the Suggestion threads, they have their own plans currently for revamping/fixing existing powerframes​​

legendarylycan

kaizerin is WELL aware of player desire for a proper sonic powerset...and water...and plant...and radiation

there is no need to send any letters to cryptic telling them stuff they already know​​