I'd like to hear from a dev so we can all move on with our lives
I agree with that. 100%, make a ruling...let people be mad about the decision for a week, let people threaten to rage quit (this really isn't that big of a deal, if people actually do quit over it, they were quitting anyway) and lets be done with it. But the problem is that with some of the suggestions, its a little more complicated than just saying yes or no. Do they say yes or no to doing a refit. do they say yes or no to upgradeable ships? .
There are those who are entirely about a T5 TOS Connie. Those people will not be satisfied until they get exactly what they want.
However, there is also a segement of the population that doesn't want to fly big honking monstrosity ships. When you are at Vice Admiral, sadly that is your only choice, except for a Defiant or other small escort. However, those people may not want to fly a Defiant either, or an Escort for that matter.
Much of the push stems from people wanting to be different. They want to play a certain way, and not be forced into a type of play they don't like. Or they like a particular ship, or the particular look of a certain ship, and when they visualize their crew out there having their adventures, that particular shio or something like it is what they see.
Then there are those who just want some flexibility. They look at the T5 B'Rel and they think "Man, it would be really nice to have the ship that I like, fit BOffs in there in the manner I want to play, and just head out and do what I want to do."
The problem is, the above lines of thinking, don't conform to traditional MMO thinking, and collide head-on with the Min/Max culture.
Me personally, I look at STO not as a traditional Min/Max MMO. I did those games in my past. I don't want to do them again. What I'd really like to do is have my little ship I enjoy (Excalibur) put in the BOffs I want for the abilities I want (Like a T5 B'Rel) and go put around in the game world and have my own little adventures and do my own peculiar brand of roleplay and generally have a good time.
But, then you have the Min/Max folks in here frothing at the mouth that it "just doesn't fit in the system" or "you can't have that! Big ships only!"
My question is: Why can't I have that? If I choose to take a smaller, more versatile ship that is more akin to how I want to play, and visually suits me better, then why does my choice to go that route, bother you? I'm not looking to PvP, I'm not looking to Raid or STF, I'm not looking to do anything but engage in my own particular brand of fun, and I'd like to have a ship which I enjoy playing, and have it be a tad bit beefier than it's original tier counterpart, so I don't blow up in 3.68 seconds.
Is that so hard to fathom? Is it really asking so much? If it makes people happy to have something like that, isn't that a better benefit to the game?
And if it had to be "locked" into only being "modern" ships, I think you'd fine that most people would be "fine, I can accept that."
This is why you keep seeing this topic come up again and again. People want something different. They want more flexibility. They want to play the game their way, not the way they are forced to do right now.
In other words....they see STO having major sandbox potential. Now they just need a few more shovels and buckets and spinner-doodads to have more fun playing in the sand.
Oh, And I wish you guys would be a little more vocal about getting the model errors on the Constitution refit corrected - That's something you could change.
A bunch of us started shouting about the condition of the galaxy class model at release and partially thanks to our shouting, it got fixed up real nice.
Really it seems like you care less about the ship itself and more about how many pew pew weapons it has.
Oh, And I wish you guys would be a little more vocal about getting the model errors on the Constitution refit corrected - That's something you could change.
A bunch of us started shouting about the condition of the galaxy class model at release and partially thanks to our shouting, it got fixed up real nice.
Really it seems like you care less about the ship itself and more about how many pew pew weapons it has.
Or maybe.....just maybe....we'd like to be able to fly it at Vice Admiral and not go BOOM in 2/10ths of a second!
For some people, that might just be a tad bit more important than getting the bolt count right on the starboard nacelle strut.
Because what good does it do to worry about stuff like that, when you fly the ship for like a day?
Oh, And I wish you guys would be a little more vocal about getting the model errors on the Constitution refit corrected - That's something you could change.
A bunch of us started shouting about the condition of the galaxy class model at release and partially thanks to our shouting, it got fixed up real nice.
Really it seems like you care less about the ship itself and more about how many pew pew weapons it has.
So you'd be ok with a T-5 Excalibur, but not a Connie. All it boils down to at that point is a costume. So you are against a ship costume. A costume is immersion breaking for you. Have you been around any of the social areas lately. Have you seen all of those costumes. No difference.
Personally, I'd love to hear the caterwalling that would result from Galaxy fans being told their ship is too outdated and is being reclassified to Tier 3. And Sovereign fans crying because their favorite ship can only be Tier 4 now. And fans of the Excelsior Refit get a massive blow to the head as their favorite ship is relegated to Tier 2. Same with Nebula fans. And Defiant fans that get bumped back down to Tier 3.
This is the crux of the matter.
All these people who sit and whine and complain that someone having a T5 version of their favorite ship (be it Connie, or Excalibur or Nova or Akira or whatever) would finally get to feel what it's like to be on the short end of the stick as THEIR favorite ships are dumped down into the range they belong in, according to their own logic. somehow, they feel their version of Trek is superior, therefore they would deny others a chance to actually enjoy playing this game. So be it. Then make STO superior to all others in a strict canon sense, and let everyone feel the pain.
So you'd be ok with a T-5 Excalibur, but not a Connie. All it boils down to at that point is a costume. So you are against a ship costume. A costume is immersion breaking for you. Have you been around any of the social areas lately. Have you seen all of those costumes. No difference.
Actually, "no offense", but the constitution is classified as a heavy cruiser.
If you mean a TOS connie being classified as a 'refit', then yes, that I have a problem with, because we already know what a refit connie looks like, so having one with TOS style parts being called a 'refit' just doesn't make sense.
A refit connie would look at the very least like it did in TMP, That's not immersion, that's logic.
I would also like to add I get tired of pro-T5 connie crowd saying that People who are against it (as T5) hate the Connie and dont want it in game and all that nonsense. Most comments I read and thats me included do not object tto the Connie being in game at all. Love seeing the Connie. Its beautiful. It has its place in the game as an awsome starter ship alternative to the crappy miranda. I really like seeing it around space dock and I will stop and look at one and check out the persons bio and stuff. Its really nice but that doesnt make it a
T5 ship in this era. Its just too much of a stretch. If you dont like the Tier system thats fine I would not mind it changing but that isnt the point. Secondly its not up to Cryptic alone. CBS decides. So all you guys saying "Oh it will definatly happen ..blah" Your just shooting your mouths off. You simply dont know.
For the record. I love the Soverign I dont like it being shown up by the Excelsior cause it doesnt make sense either. having said that I also recognize that new ships should be coming in this area that are better. I have no problem with that either I am realistic as most Soverign lovers are. This is why I think Cryptic should start making new designs for 2409 now.
I would also like to add I get tired of pro-T5 connie crowd saying that People who are against it (as T5) hate the Connie and dont want it in game and all that nonsense. Most comments I read and thats me included do not object tto the Connie being in game at all. Love seeing the Connie. Its beautiful. It has its place in the game as an awsome starter ship alternative to the crappy miranda. I really like seeing it around space dock and I will stop and look at one and check out the persons bio and stuff. Its really nice but that doesnt make it a
T5 ship in this era. Its just too much of a stretch. If you dont like the Tier system thats fine I would not mind it changing but that isnt the point. Secondly its not up to Cryptic alone. CBS decides. So all you guys saying "Oh it will definatly happen ..blah" Your just shooting your mouths off. You simply dont know.
For the record. I love the Soverign I dont like it being shown up by the Excelsior cause it doesnt make sense either. having said that I also recognize that new ships should be coming in this area that are better. I have no problem with that either I am realistic as most Soverign lovers are. This is why I think Cryptic should start making new designs for 2409 now.
I agree, I love my sovereign but I'm ready to move on to the USS Kumari A any time cryptic comes out with a suitable replacement for the sovereign.
PS I'd like to just add that as someone who flies a t2 connie myself sometimes, the biggest crippling factor it has is the limited bridge crew, which makes no sense to me why my BOffs can't operate that ship just as well as they can our Sovereign.
I agree, I love my sovereign but I'm ready to move on to the USS Kumari A any time cryptic comes out with a suitable replacement for the sovereign.
PS I'd like to just add that as someone who flies a t2 connie myself sometimes, the biggest crippling factor it has is the limited bridge crew, which makes no sense to me why my BOffs can't operate that ship just as well as they can our Sovereign.
They can, the ship just lacks the proper equipment for it, or that is at least how i explain it to myself.
Watch the battle of Wolf 359 and you'll see the Federation doesn't like to scrap their old ships too quickly. They are certainly out dated but as for using them for frontline use only if they're desperate.
Despite this being a Connie thread I'd love to see a Ambassador class. And considering how young the Akira class was in the movies I love to see it refit into a T5 role.
Let's reclassify the Tiers as being age specific, and get this train back on the rails!
Here's what it should look like:
Tier 1 - Ancient Starfleet History
NX Class
D'kyr
Andorian Ship
TOS Connie
Tier 2 - TMP Era
Oberth
Miranda
Connie Refit
Excelsior - Excelsior Refit
Ambassador (future addition)
Tier 3 - TNG Era
Galaxy
Defiant (Note, design began on the Defiant shortly after Wolf 359, making the Defiant older than when it arrived at DS9. It had been previously in mothballs.)
Nebula
New Orleans (future addition)
Cheyenne
Tier 4 - DS9 / VOY / Nemesis Era
Intrepid
Akira
Saber (Sabre)
Nova
Olympic (TNG Anti-Time future)
Galaxy Dreadnought (TNG Anti-Time future)
Prometheus
Sovereign
Luna
Tier 5 - STO Era
Excalibur-Vesper
Rapier-Ushaan
Aurora-Quasar
Oslo-Zephyr
Dakota-Stargazer
Hope-Horizon
Vigilant-Galiant
Envoy-Celestial
Discovery-Cochrane
Cerebus-Phoenix-Hephaestus
Majestic-Noble-Imperial
Polaris-Sol-Comet
Hermes-Gryphon-Dervish-Maelstrom
Avenger-Vanguard-Emissary-Nomad
Oracle-Destiny-Trident-Nimbus
Then we could stop all the stupid arguing about what belongs where, and what ships can or can't be upgraded. It would be right here, crystal clear and precise just what is the top dogs in STO and what is not.
If you like your favorite ship, stay in the tier where it exists. You get a pure version of it, no customizations. Otherwise, get to Tier 5 and customize your heart out and fly what you want.
Works for me, and I'd support it 100%!
Yah I'd support this as well. Makes sence to just have new ships as Tier 5 . Just as some people have problems with the connie hurting their immersion ,the Galaxcy hurts mine. New ships would solve this.
Comments
Because the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
I agree with that. 100%, make a ruling...let people be mad about the decision for a week, let people threaten to rage quit (this really isn't that big of a deal, if people actually do quit over it, they were quitting anyway) and lets be done with it. But the problem is that with some of the suggestions, its a little more complicated than just saying yes or no. Do they say yes or no to doing a refit. do they say yes or no to upgradeable ships? .
I think it goes a little deeper than that.
At least for some.
There are those who are entirely about a T5 TOS Connie. Those people will not be satisfied until they get exactly what they want.
However, there is also a segement of the population that doesn't want to fly big honking monstrosity ships. When you are at Vice Admiral, sadly that is your only choice, except for a Defiant or other small escort. However, those people may not want to fly a Defiant either, or an Escort for that matter.
Much of the push stems from people wanting to be different. They want to play a certain way, and not be forced into a type of play they don't like. Or they like a particular ship, or the particular look of a certain ship, and when they visualize their crew out there having their adventures, that particular shio or something like it is what they see.
Then there are those who just want some flexibility. They look at the T5 B'Rel and they think "Man, it would be really nice to have the ship that I like, fit BOffs in there in the manner I want to play, and just head out and do what I want to do."
The problem is, the above lines of thinking, don't conform to traditional MMO thinking, and collide head-on with the Min/Max culture.
Me personally, I look at STO not as a traditional Min/Max MMO. I did those games in my past. I don't want to do them again. What I'd really like to do is have my little ship I enjoy (Excalibur) put in the BOffs I want for the abilities I want (Like a T5 B'Rel) and go put around in the game world and have my own little adventures and do my own peculiar brand of roleplay and generally have a good time.
But, then you have the Min/Max folks in here frothing at the mouth that it "just doesn't fit in the system" or "you can't have that! Big ships only!"
My question is: Why can't I have that? If I choose to take a smaller, more versatile ship that is more akin to how I want to play, and visually suits me better, then why does my choice to go that route, bother you? I'm not looking to PvP, I'm not looking to Raid or STF, I'm not looking to do anything but engage in my own particular brand of fun, and I'd like to have a ship which I enjoy playing, and have it be a tad bit beefier than it's original tier counterpart, so I don't blow up in 3.68 seconds.
Is that so hard to fathom? Is it really asking so much? If it makes people happy to have something like that, isn't that a better benefit to the game?
And if it had to be "locked" into only being "modern" ships, I think you'd fine that most people would be "fine, I can accept that."
This is why you keep seeing this topic come up again and again. People want something different. They want more flexibility. They want to play the game their way, not the way they are forced to do right now.
In other words....they see STO having major sandbox potential. Now they just need a few more shovels and buckets and spinner-doodads to have more fun playing in the sand.
Already seen it.
Along with the USS Glen Beck
and the USS Hello Kitty
and the USS <insert pendantic name here>
So what's your point? Me, flying around in an upgraded Excalibur is as immersion breaking for you as people that name their ships in such a fashion?
Even though you are likely NEVER to run into me in game?
My desire to fly my little Excalibur at Vice Admiral is that utterly offensive to you?
Why is it that the naysayers always use ridiculous arguments like this half the time?
A bunch of us started shouting about the condition of the galaxy class model at release and partially thanks to our shouting, it got fixed up real nice.
Really it seems like you care less about the ship itself and more about how many pew pew weapons it has.
Or maybe.....just maybe....we'd like to be able to fly it at Vice Admiral and not go BOOM in 2/10ths of a second!
For some people, that might just be a tad bit more important than getting the bolt count right on the starboard nacelle strut.
Because what good does it do to worry about stuff like that, when you fly the ship for like a day?
WTF?
No.
A heavy cruiser refit in the same manner as the b'rel would be fine.
But that's really not what I see people asking for. I see people asking for a 't5 connie'
Actually if you look at it in game, the right nacelle pylon is sticking out if the side of the nacelle. It's pretty bad.
Not to mention the flatness of the saucer, and some other model-related shortcomings.
Actually, "no offense", but the constitution is classified as a heavy cruiser.
If you mean a TOS connie being classified as a 'refit', then yes, that I have a problem with, because we already know what a refit connie looks like, so having one with TOS style parts being called a 'refit' just doesn't make sense.
A refit connie would look at the very least like it did in TMP, That's not immersion, that's logic.
T5 ship in this era. Its just too much of a stretch. If you dont like the Tier system thats fine I would not mind it changing but that isnt the point. Secondly its not up to Cryptic alone. CBS decides. So all you guys saying "Oh it will definatly happen ..blah" Your just shooting your mouths off. You simply dont know.
For the record. I love the Soverign I dont like it being shown up by the Excelsior cause it doesnt make sense either. having said that I also recognize that new ships should be coming in this area that are better. I have no problem with that either I am realistic as most Soverign lovers are. This is why I think Cryptic should start making new designs for 2409 now.
I agree, I love my sovereign but I'm ready to move on to the USS Kumari A any time cryptic comes out with a suitable replacement for the sovereign.
PS I'd like to just add that as someone who flies a t2 connie myself sometimes, the biggest crippling factor it has is the limited bridge crew, which makes no sense to me why my BOffs can't operate that ship just as well as they can our Sovereign.
They can, the ship just lacks the proper equipment for it, or that is at least how i explain it to myself.
Despite this being a Connie thread I'd love to see a Ambassador class. And considering how young the Akira class was in the movies I love to see it refit into a T5 role.
Yah I'd support this as well. Makes sence to just have new ships as Tier 5 . Just as some people have problems with the connie hurting their immersion ,the Galaxcy hurts mine. New ships would solve this.