I'll never fully grasp the standing order to duck out when some person, fleet, or ability shows up. By that logic, what's the point of queuing up at all? There is always the chance that you could run into someone better (believe it or not) so if a loss is such a problem maybe PVP isn't the place to be.
Some of the most boring matches I had were where I really considered just leaving. But I don't remember that being many 15:0 matches against known fleet mates.
Some people just can't lose, and you may be right about that they might be wrong in PvP. But they are there, we have to deal with them, it seems.
Oh I certainly don't mean to say that they aren't welcome. More bodies driven to win is a great thing and a really nice change from the idle/emblem farmers. Sometimes that need to win goes too far though. I guess I'm not really sure how leaving avoids the problem of losing. It seems to me that if I was leaving without even trying I'd already lost.
That is sad. I am not a lifetime subscriber to be fighting only with Roach and EmoJoe... (As much as I respect and like these guys.)
Respect?!? Thanks MustrumRidcully
( Though I always figured I was too opinionated, cuastic and erratic in mood to garner respect from most on the forums)
Just the three of us playing PvP would be boring with EmoJoe blowing us out of the "water" every few seconds.
Elite are the guys that consistently win PvP matches, including the tournaments. I am certainly not one of them.
I just call myself experienced PvPer - which isn't the same thing as good. I've just... experienced a lot.
Exactly how I see myself as well, experienced and really lucky.
In it for the fun, for the victory and the comaraderie.:D
Roach the problem is that there is no way to heal a hull once it has taken damage in game.
I'm confused by this statement.
I though HE, ET and A2Sif where hull heals and hull resist buffers?
Or do you mean there is no way to overcome the FAW/DEM rate of damage to the hull?
I was being sarcastic to their comments about how it goes through shields and tjere is no counter.
I've seen ships killed from FAW+DEM IIII bleedthrough alone,however.....none of those ships were mine.:D And to the question if I tried any of the counters Roach mentioned,the answer was no.Never said they didn't or might not work.;)
Scramble Sensors doesn't do damage, and any SANE PvPer would stop firing when under SS and go for a Sci Team 1. SS3 is the only one that has some potential, so you need 5 sci ships, which in turn deliver little to moderate DPS, and you need HIGH DPS to take down a cruiser.
You probably forgot the part of PvP where you need to DESTROY something in order to win, not just scramble it...
Any counter to FaW requires multiple non-obvious skills and a complex team strategy. To what end? Since FaW-boats need no brains at all, who's gonna invest time, money and nerves just to "suppress" them, let alone destroy them?
i'm missing "opponent fires his weapons" in your list...
Only things that a player can control are on the list. Obviously you cannot control what other players do. Therefore your suggestion cannot be put on the list.
But maybe "brain" could be put there. We all know that brains are op. I think all abilities should be allowed, including brains - but maybe some players disagree.
Only things that a player can control are on the list. Obviously you cannot control what other players do. Therefore your suggestion cannot be put on the list.
But maybe "brain" could be put there. We all know that brains are op. I think all abilities should be allowed, including brains - but maybe some players disagree.
to include brain could be a solution. ...
but reading about (so called) pvp groups or fleets leaving a match, due to some skills used by the opponents and remembering the nowadays usual "small talk" in organized pvp chat, is imo disappointing.
furthermore i would suggest, we should first define the expression "pvp-player" (yeah, i am not seeking for new friends ;..; ).
are we talking about people who are heading to pvp (kerrat / cnh / arena) and want an easy match by forming a premade and using teamspeak,
or about people, seeking for a challenge, even if it means, that they have to fight against skills, which are (too) strong (maybe even not working as intended) and who can accept, that they will be beaten, until they have a solution for the problem, or, when it is a bug, which can not be bear down by ingame solutions, until it will be fixed.
even though an all faw cruiser team (for example) deals a lot of damage, they are not invulnerable. it is possible to defeat them. sure it is a task, which needs some certain time and it is possible, that the premade will be beaten.
but at least, it would be a much better match, than the usual boring premade v. pug 15:0 matches and the "GG" in zone chat wouldn't be a farce.
i am certain this would help to relate the attitude of some people, when they are talking about "broken & overpowered skills"
to include brain could be a solution. ...
but reading about (so called) pvp groups or fleets leaving a match, due to some skills used by the opponents and remembering the nowadays usual "small talk" in organized pvp chat, is imo disappointing.
furthermore i would suggest, we should first define the expression "pvp-player" (yeah, i am not seeking for new friends ;..; ).
are we talking about people who are heading to pvp (kerrat / cnh / arena) and want an easy match by forming a premade and using teamspeak,
or about people, seeking for a challenge, even if it means, that they have to fight against skills, which are (too) strong (maybe even not working as intended) and who can accept, that they will be beaten, until they have a solution for the problem, or, when it is a bug, which can not be bear down by ingame solutions, until it will be fixed.
even though an all faw cruiser team (for example) deals a lot of damage, they are not invulnerable. it is possible to defeat them. sure it is a task, which needs some certain time and it is possible, that the premade will be beaten.
but at least, it would be a much better match, than the usual boring premade v. pug 15:0 matches and the "GG" in zone chat wouldn't be a farce.
i am certain this would help to relate the attitude of some people, when they are talking about "broken & overpowered skills"
well, "seeking a challange" hardly means to fly in a pug. usually i don't get upset about the enemy team but about my "teammates". after a couple of games my blood pressure is so high that i have to take a break. a real challange and really fun games are premade vs. premade. the poor thing is, that highly unbalanced stuff take the fun out of it. bfaw and ss are highly unbalanced. just unbalanced but acceptable are skills like science fleet.
well, "seeking a challange" hardly means to fly in a pug. usually i don't get upset about the enemy team but about my "teammates". after a couple of games my blood pressure is so high that i have to take a break. a real challange and really fun games are premade vs. premade. the poor thing is, that highly unbalanced stuff take the fun out of it. bfaw and ss are highly unbalanced. just unbalanced but acceptable are skills like science fleet.
A loose group of good players fighting a premade can be a lot more fun than premade vs premade..
2-3 players from one fleet pugging up against a premade can also be a lot more fun..
Its a higher challenge, since youll be fighting a well coordinated group with a very limited range of carefully selected setups (you know how every premade copies eachother.. If say TSI comes up with, say a great way of fighting a premade FAW today, you know as well as I that within a week, 99% of all premades will have copied it and run it themselves), chosen to compliment eachother as well as possible.
On the other hand, when you PUG it, you dont know what or who to count on.. The group isnt designed for the perfect synergies.. In a PUG you can only rely on yourself, you cannot fall back on a fleetmate/friends that knows your fighting style.
That can be good, since you learn/practice quite a lot of survival skills, particulary in escorts.. Its funny that a good deal of the people that mainly play premade groups, are actually not nessecarily particulary skilled players, they are used to the 2-3 HEs that drop on them when they start taking damage.. They are not used to surviving - by themselves.
Im often told to stay put when flying in a premade, Im told not to move 10k< away.. But.. I *can* play without that dedicated healer dropping 100k heals on me per minute.
Im often told to stay put when flying in a premade, Im told not to move 10k< away.. But.. I *can* play without that dedicated healer dropping 100k heals on me per minute.
Yes but it frustrates a healer when you are facing 2 targets 15KM and you die. I mean it is great you can handle yourself but sometimes depending on the make up of the group you are against and your in you may be needed to do the primary damage. While I understand certain strategies the one that I do not get are ships that run especially the cruiser, its funny the last couple of days I have come against cruisers that run. What I have found out for the most part is all their skills are on cooldown and I just kill them 5km farther out. Now with escorts it is a little more understandable but I have always felt if it is a close game then run but if it isn't extending out just makes it easier to kill team mates 5 v 4 sometime 5 v 3 because your healer feels he has a duty ends up being a slaughter.
Yes but it frustrates a healer when you are facing 2 targets 15KM and you die. I mean it is great you can handle yourself but sometimes depending on the make up of the group you are against and your in you may be needed to do the primary damage. While I understand certain strategies the one that I do not get are ships that run especially the cruiser, its funny the last couple of days I have come against cruisers that run. What I have found out for the most part is all their skills are on cooldown and I just kill them 5km farther out. Now with escorts it is a little more understandable but I have always felt if it is a close game then run but if it isn't extending out just makes it easier to kill team mates 5 v 4 sometime 5 v 3 because your healer feels he has a duty ends up being a slaughter.
Well.. I look at it this way..
I know I can handle myself, atleast until I have a chance to recloak (if someone follows me, I usually have a engine battery ready).. I have Jam so I can always mitigate atleast one opponent.
I also know the guys I fly with can handle themselves in cruisers and SVs, even when outnumbered 4 to 5
Lastly, my Defiant is 10 times as effective from a cloaked alpha, as it is in sustained fights .. Half that time I run with very limited buffs because of my setup.
Perhaps, I should be better at letting the healers know *not* to follow me when I boost 20k away.
--
Edit: Also.. I PUG so much, that Im perhaps even more vulnerable when using a style Im not used to (pump out insane amounts of sustained damage, while being fed heals by a healer), than when Im extending away.
Maybe I just need to learn how better to be part of a premade group, Ive never been particular good at it.
i pug'ed alot and i had some good games .. but they are rare. normally the game begins with a captain kirk full impulsing right into the enemy group => blood pressure at 160 .. and the game just started :eek:.
i pug'ed alot and i had some good games .. but they are rare. normally the game begins with a captain kirk full impulsing right into the enemy group => blood pressure at 160 .. and the game just started :eek:.
LOL and that "captain kirk" is usually on a Galaxy-X dreadnought with DHC?
If you hit a FAW user with scramble sensors, will the FAW power target it's own teammates and spam?
the "normal" shots will stay on your target (although you can target your team mates). the "extra" shots will go everywhere, including your team mates.
Comments
Some people just can't lose, and you may be right about that they might be wrong in PvP. But they are there, we have to deal with them, it seems.
I think after my post GM Jahia is watching this thread
Interesting......... It may bear thinking upon given the BoPs versatility.
I'm confused by this statement.
I though HE, ET and A2Sif where hull heals and hull resist buffers?
Or do you mean there is no way to overcome the FAW/DEM rate of damage to the hull?
As have most of your posts or were you ACTUALLY being serious
I've seen ships killed from FAW+DEM IIII bleedthrough alone,however.....none of those ships were mine.:D And to the question if I tried any of the counters Roach mentioned,the answer was no.Never said they didn't or might not work.;)
You probably forgot the part of PvP where you need to DESTROY something in order to win, not just scramble it...
Any counter to FaW requires multiple non-obvious skills and a complex team strategy. To what end? Since FaW-boats need no brains at all, who's gonna invest time, money and nerves just to "suppress" them, let alone destroy them?
Everything on that list should be red! :mad:
Except BoPs and Assault Cruisers.. because then how would you have fun, right?
Everything on the naughty list until proven to be acceptable.
Only things that a player can control are on the list. Obviously you cannot control what other players do. Therefore your suggestion cannot be put on the list.
But maybe "brain" could be put there. We all know that brains are op. I think all abilities should be allowed, including brains - but maybe some players disagree.
to include brain could be a solution. ...
but reading about (so called) pvp groups or fleets leaving a match, due to some skills used by the opponents and remembering the nowadays usual "small talk" in organized pvp chat, is imo disappointing.
furthermore i would suggest, we should first define the expression "pvp-player" (yeah, i am not seeking for new friends ;..; ).
are we talking about people who are heading to pvp (kerrat / cnh / arena) and want an easy match by forming a premade and using teamspeak,
or about people, seeking for a challenge, even if it means, that they have to fight against skills, which are (too) strong (maybe even not working as intended) and who can accept, that they will be beaten, until they have a solution for the problem, or, when it is a bug, which can not be bear down by ingame solutions, until it will be fixed.
even though an all faw cruiser team (for example) deals a lot of damage, they are not invulnerable. it is possible to defeat them. sure it is a task, which needs some certain time and it is possible, that the premade will be beaten.
but at least, it would be a much better match, than the usual boring premade v. pug 15:0 matches and the "GG" in zone chat wouldn't be a farce.
i am certain this would help to relate the attitude of some people, when they are talking about "broken & overpowered skills"
well, "seeking a challange" hardly means to fly in a pug. usually i don't get upset about the enemy team but about my "teammates". after a couple of games my blood pressure is so high that i have to take a break. a real challange and really fun games are premade vs. premade. the poor thing is, that highly unbalanced stuff take the fun out of it. bfaw and ss are highly unbalanced. just unbalanced but acceptable are skills like science fleet.
A loose group of good players fighting a premade can be a lot more fun than premade vs premade..
2-3 players from one fleet pugging up against a premade can also be a lot more fun..
Its a higher challenge, since youll be fighting a well coordinated group with a very limited range of carefully selected setups (you know how every premade copies eachother.. If say TSI comes up with, say a great way of fighting a premade FAW today, you know as well as I that within a week, 99% of all premades will have copied it and run it themselves), chosen to compliment eachother as well as possible.
On the other hand, when you PUG it, you dont know what or who to count on.. The group isnt designed for the perfect synergies.. In a PUG you can only rely on yourself, you cannot fall back on a fleetmate/friends that knows your fighting style.
That can be good, since you learn/practice quite a lot of survival skills, particulary in escorts.. Its funny that a good deal of the people that mainly play premade groups, are actually not nessecarily particulary skilled players, they are used to the 2-3 HEs that drop on them when they start taking damage.. They are not used to surviving - by themselves.
Im often told to stay put when flying in a premade, Im told not to move 10k< away.. But.. I *can* play without that dedicated healer dropping 100k heals on me per minute.
Yes but it frustrates a healer when you are facing 2 targets 15KM and you die. I mean it is great you can handle yourself but sometimes depending on the make up of the group you are against and your in you may be needed to do the primary damage. While I understand certain strategies the one that I do not get are ships that run especially the cruiser, its funny the last couple of days I have come against cruisers that run. What I have found out for the most part is all their skills are on cooldown and I just kill them 5km farther out. Now with escorts it is a little more understandable but I have always felt if it is a close game then run but if it isn't extending out just makes it easier to kill team mates 5 v 4 sometime 5 v 3 because your healer feels he has a duty ends up being a slaughter.
Well.. I look at it this way..
I know I can handle myself, atleast until I have a chance to recloak (if someone follows me, I usually have a engine battery ready).. I have Jam so I can always mitigate atleast one opponent.
I also know the guys I fly with can handle themselves in cruisers and SVs, even when outnumbered 4 to 5
Lastly, my Defiant is 10 times as effective from a cloaked alpha, as it is in sustained fights .. Half that time I run with very limited buffs because of my setup.
Perhaps, I should be better at letting the healers know *not* to follow me when I boost 20k away.
--
Edit: Also.. I PUG so much, that Im perhaps even more vulnerable when using a style Im not used to (pump out insane amounts of sustained damage, while being fed heals by a healer), than when Im extending away.
Maybe I just need to learn how better to be part of a premade group, Ive never been particular good at it.
LOL and that "captain kirk" is usually on a Galaxy-X dreadnought with DHC?
Or a Sovvy or Defiant. Nothing like getting into position with a defiant-r and realizing you now have to alpha different target 15KM away.
the "normal" shots will stay on your target (although you can target your team mates). the "extra" shots will go everywhere, including your team mates.
Yes but SS1 and 2 still allows him to focus one target with primary beam. Only SS3 really effects a BFaW boat.
If I had a nickel for every time that happened...
What wonderland makes you thing you can Full Impulse into a group of enemies and take them out singlehandedly? Oh yeah, PvE...