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I'll tell you what's wrong with being an Admiral as the top rank.

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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Walshicus wrote:
    Exactly my sentiments.

    The game needs to cap out at Captain for solo players, with Commodore or Admiral a vanity title for Fleet leaders.

    Agreed! It couldn't be that hard to separate rank from level. The game operates mostly on grade anyway, the rank just changes based on how many SP you have invested. I run around with captain pins on my tac character for this reason.

    Granted, this isn't THAT pressing of an issue to merit taking time away from the programmers to change it NAO, but in the future...it should be looked at.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    CapnBludd wrote: »
    You people just don't get it. There aren't thousands of Admirals, there is just you. There is one storyline that we all play and in that one story you and you alone are the Kirk/Janeway/Sisko/Picard/Archer. The other people are the heroes from their perspectives while you are the extras.

    So all those other player Admirals I group with to do storyline missions are just figments of my imagination? :confused:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    It would have been nice if at grade 41 you were presented with a choice to become an Admiral or carry on as a captian gaining seniority. They could have branched out the abilities so that captians continue to improve the performance of their own ship, while the new admirals got abilities that helped groups,
    They could even have introduced command versions of ships for the admirals, perhaps replacing some of the BO stations with Staff office stations and allow admiirals to train their officers with new group abilities to use at them

    i personally leave all my charaters as Captians in their titles and uniforms. Admirals command a group of ships and not just one as we do in the game and it doesn't sit right with me.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Finally, a thread that addresses my confusion as to what the crying is about regarding ranks.

    I seriously thought people were upset because experience was tied to rank, which is a stupid thing to be upset about; experienced officers are likely to get promotions, are they not? I didn't see why this was an issue.

    But now that someone has mentioned Over 9000 VA's flying around, it makes a bit more sense. I kinda feel sorry that the folks complaining about this, seeing as they clearly lack the minuscule amount of imagination required to see past it, but it's a legitimate complaint none the less.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Jexsam wrote: »
    Finally, a thread that addresses my confusion as to what the crying is about regarding ranks.

    I seriously thought people were upset because experience was tied to rank, which is a stupid thing to be upset about; experienced officers are likely to get promotions, are they not? I didn't see why this was an issue.

    But now that someone has mentioned Over 9000 VA's flying around, it makes a bit more sense. I kinda feel sorry that the folks complaining about this, seeing as they clearly lack the minuscule amount of imagination required to see past it, but it's a legitimate complaint none the less.

    Well that was certainly a backhanded compliment.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    frak wrote: »
    Well that was certainly a backhanded compliment.

    I blame this forum in general; I didn't used to be so actively hateful.

    In all honesty, though, I'm rather glad my confusion has been cleared up. I'll say it again here without the bile, it's an argument that actually makes sense.

    As for how I get past the whole VA's everywhere deal? Simple; I don't give a rat's behind about other players' ranks outside of rp, and I leave all of my toons who I don't deem Admirals in Captain attire and pips. Easy.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Jexsam wrote: »
    But now that someone has mentioned Over 9000 VA's flying around, it makes a bit more sense. I kinda feel sorry that the folks complaining about this, seeing as they clearly lack the minuscule amount of imagination required to see past it, but it's a legitimate complaint none the less.

    my miniuscule imagination only sees this as a missed oppurtunity to add a further layer of depth to character choice and progression by not allowing charaters to remain captains or choose a new path of group support by becoming admirals. how much more interesting would the game be with that choice in it?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I bet that if Cryptic "fixed" this, there would be a lot of people filling up threads called "I want my Vice Admiral rank back!".

    So, as Vice Admiral, Descendant of Kahless, Tal Shiar's most wanted, and a lot more of earned titles including, but not limited to, "Moist" and "Torpedo target", I command you all to stop complaining and go play some Foundry missions.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I'd like to see some restructuring of the ranks honestly, so it doesn't feel like we've reached the end of our careers so soon. The current Tier's don't change, but we get this

    1-10 Ensign/Warrior - Tier 1
    11-20 Lieutenant - Tier 2
    21-30 Lieutenant Commander - Tier 3
    31-40 Commander - Tier 4
    41-50 Captain - Tier -5
    51-60 Commodore/Brigade General - Tier-5 Retrofit
    61-70 Rear Admiral/Major General - Tier 6
    71-80 Vice Admiral/Lt. Gen - Tier... well that would depend on how tier 6 goes.
    81-90 Admiral/General
    91-10 Fleet Admiral/Dahar Master

    Sure, those of us at VA now won't be called VA's anymore, but a lack of title makes up for an increase in potential content and level cap increases with future seasons.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    The rank structure in this game should just stop at captain.

    Make the level unrelated to rank.

    It just became very silly, uncanon, ridiculous and plain unrealistic to have so many Admirals flying around in their ships doing a captain's job.

    Admirals belong behind a desk. Even during war times. The very few times when we saw Generals/Admirals in the field in the real world was only due to very extreme circumstances. And those times lasted for only a very short duration.

    The game is supposed to be our own Star Trek TV show. Did the shows center around the Admirals? Nope. They didn't! They were centered around the captains and their ship and crew.

    This is a huge game breaker and immersion killer for me.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I agree... they should just stop the ranks at captain. You can still give us skill points and stuff.. you dont even have to tack on levels. Do it like in Eve or something. Guild Wars capped at 20 and kept on accruing points afterwards.

    It is possible to do a game without levels.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Bracknell wrote:
    The rank structure in this game should just stop at captain.

    Make the level unrelated to rank.

    It just became very silly, uncanon, ridiculous and plain unrealistic to have so many Admirals flying around in their ships doing a captain's job.

    Admirals belong behind a desk. Even during war times. The very few times when we saw Generals/Admirals in the field in the real world was only due to very extreme circumstances. And those times lasted for only a very short duration.

    The game is supposed to be our own Star Trek TV show. Did the shows center around the Admirals? Nope. They didn't! They were centered around the captains and their ship and crew.

    This is a huge game breaker and immersion killer for me.

    Not to mention the only time we ever saw an Admiral on the front lines was Admiral Ross during the Dominion War, and that was the for the final push on Cardassia.

    Admiralty has always been the top brass, administrative hierarchy that sits in the background and allocates people and resources to their respective assignments. You don't see Admirals on starships. Kirk shouldn't have even been on the Enterprise in TMP, but was given that assignment because the assigned Captain was a noob.

    The sad thing is, this debate has been ongoing since the days of Perpetual, and not only did Cryptic choose to ignore it during the development phase, they continue to push forward with it.

    While I was never a fan of "numerical leveling systems" like WoW, in this case, I think it would have been a much better route to go.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    CapnBludd wrote: »
    You people just don't get it. There aren't thousands of Admirals, there is just you. There is one storyline that we all play and in that one story you and you alone are the Kirk/Janeway/Sisko/Picard/Archer. The other people are the heroes from their perspectives while you are the extras.

    If this was a real sandbox type of game with no guiding story then the too many Admiral thing might be valid, but this is more like a parallel universe thing. We all exposed the undine Admiral and Ambassador, saved young Ms. Paris, and so on in our own little slice of spacetime.

    So stop worrying about other Admirals because there aren't any. You are the chosen one.;)...Except in my slice where you are just Joe Schmoe.:p

    Finally someone has said what I've been ranting about since day one...without ranting about it. :D

    Thank you CapnBludd.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    So all those other player Admirals I group with to do storyline missions are just figments of my imagination? :confused:

    Sort of, since storyline missions aren't written for groups, they are written at a single player. that is why everyone only sees their own name in the info.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    CapnBludd wrote: »
    Sort of, since storyline missions aren't written for groups, they are written at a single player. that is why everyone only sees their own name in the info.

    And so, when I become Fleet Admiral....

    (aka Commander and Chief of Starfleet, who only answers to the Federation President and Federation Council)

    it's gonna make total sense that I'm still out in the field punching Kingons in the face and getting assimilated by the Borg. Putting myself in harms way like that should have the Federation President relieving me of my duties...

    Or when I'm a full Admiral, a position generally held by divisional commanders.

    Or as a Vice Admiral, which is a post generally held for Fleet commanders, who are in charge of MASSIVE fleets, not small armadas.

    Or Rear Admirals, who are your run of the mill entery level Admiral that hold unimportant posts like say...Starfleet Academy Commendant?

    Yep, just makes all kinds of sense to me! :rolleyes:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Notice that I referred to Captain Data. A person with a starfleet career spanning fifty years whom most players now outrank by a wide margin. So that technically means that you or I can order Data to do things. Admirals do order Captains on missions, right? If there is to be a mission involving the Enterprise-E, Captain Data will be my wingman and suboordinate, won't he? He'll have to take my orders because I'm a Vice Admiral and he's a Captain.

    Hmmm..one could have loads of fun with this.

    "Captain Data, you are hereby ordered to scrub my toilet, shine my shoes, cook me up something good to eat, and hold all my calls while I play STO. Got that??"

    Captain Data: "Yes Vice Admiral Sterling, I indeed "got it.":D
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ide love to hear some1 from the devs explain why they keep it the way it is now. like ... maybe they have good reasons for the ranking. otherwise i whole-heartedly agree with making captain the top rank.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    The main problem with the rank system,is simply one thing.
    A large mass of ppl being impatient and wanting to advance quickly,in business sense you want to keep customers happy right?
    Any Trekkie or even military can debate about the flawed rank structure and gammers can complain about the level cap.
    Ask yourself this question though,if they do something to your character rank,say reduce everyone.How many ppl would be outraged?Its a double edged sword,the only thing that can be done is add content.ALOT of content.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    python3 wrote:
    The main problem with the rank system,is simply one thing.
    A large mass of ppl being impatient and wanting to advance quickly,in business sense you want to keep customers happy right?
    Any Trekkie or even military can debate about the flawed rank structure and gammers can complain about the level cap.
    Ask yourself this question though,if they do something to your character rank,say reduce everyone.How many ppl would be outraged?Its a double edged sword,the only thing that can be done is add content.ALOT of content.

    i dont think many people would be outraged realy. ive never seen anybody support the current admiral ranks in any of the threads about ranks in the past. but please feel free to provide a link to one should i have missed one. although i totaly see your point, and your right, it would be a shock to find out you have suddenly been "demoted" but its not like most npc's actually call you Admiral in game anyway. its always captain this captain that. :)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    CedricO wrote:
    ide love to hear some1 from the devs explain why they keep it the way it is now. like ... maybe they have good reasons for the ranking. otherwise i whole-heartedly agree with making captain the top rank.

    there was a dev post (a long, long, time ago) that answered your question.

    it was within one of the billions of threads about this topic. GL on your quest to locate it.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    It is my opinion that most players would be satisfied with capping the ranks at captain.

    Every time I enter ESD or any other social hub all I see there are people wearing uniforms with captain rank pins and captain title.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Bracknell wrote:
    It is my opinion that most players would be satisfied with capping the ranks at captain.

    Every time I enter ESD or any other social hub all I see there are people wearing uniforms with captain rank pins and captain title.

    Ah, but I like being Vice Admiral.:)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Ah, but I like being Vice Admiral.:)

    and all it needs is just person to say that to stop any thought of it being changed. they will never change something untill they are absolutely 1000% sure everybody wants it.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    CedricO wrote:
    and all it needs is just person to say that to stop any thought of it being changed. they will never change something untill they are absolutely 1000% sure everybody wants it.

    I think that players should be given an option to either stay at Captain rank OR progress on to the Admiralty and that way everyone can be happy.:)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    CedricO wrote:
    and all it needs is just person to say that to stop any thought of it being changed. they will never change something untill they are absolutely 1000% sure everybody wants it.

    That is a sad truth. :(

    Same goes for the missing dorsal and ventral shields as well as full 3D space flight. There is as much evidence to true full 3D space flight in Star Trek that not even the DEVs could deny that it exists.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    And so, when I become Fleet Admiral....

    (aka Commander and Chief of Starfleet, who only answers to the Federation President and Federation Council)

    it's gonna make total sense that I'm still out in the field punching Kingons in the face and getting assimilated by the Borg. Putting myself in harms way like that should have the Federation President relieving me of my duties...

    Or when I'm a full Admiral, a position generally held by divisional commanders.

    Or as a Vice Admiral, which is a post generally held for Fleet commanders, who are in charge of MASSIVE fleets, not small armadas.

    Or Rear Admirals, who are your run of the mill entery level Admiral that hold unimportant posts like say...Starfleet Academy Commendant?

    Yep, just makes all kinds of sense to me! :rolleyes:

    It isn't a real military orginization with real billets, relax and let it go already. If it was real you'd be out of uniform. 8') I just don't get you guys that can sit back and imagine everything else, but just get brainfreeze because of one meaningless thing. The tag doesn't stop you from using your ship.

    IF the game said hey you're an Admiral and grabbed you be the back of the neck and the seat of your pants and pulled you off the ship I'd be on your side, but it doesn't. You can't handle being an Admiral but you can handle things like having your ship respawn unharmed, being able to change your engines between encounters, swapping armor without going to a refit facility, a hand phaser taking up the same storage space as a beam array, missions that don't have a fail possiblity and countless other things that don't make sense. The same way you ignore those oddities, ignore one more thing and be the master of your ship since the game lets you do that. That make sense.;)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    CapnBludd wrote: »
    It isn't a real military orginization with real billets, relax and let it go already. If it was real you'd be out of uniform. 8') I just don't get you guys that can sit back and imagine everything else, but just get brainfreeze because of one meaningless thing. The tag doesn't stop you from using your ship.

    IF the game said hey you're an Admiral and grabbed you be the back of the neck and the seat of your pants and pulled you off the ship I'd be on your side, but it doesn't. You can't handle being an Admiral but you can handle things like having your ship respawn unharmed, being able to change your engines between encounters, swapping armor without going to a refit facility, a hand phaser taking up the same storage space as a beam array, missions that don't have a fail possiblity and countless other things that don't make sense. The same way you ignore those oddities, ignore one more thing and be the master of your ship since the game lets you do that. That make sense.;)

    im guessing the problem there is that people relate more to the toon on their screen that they use to explore STO then say the inventory/cargo bay. its ... more in your face?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Not to mention the only time we ever saw an Admiral on the front lines was Admiral Ross during the Dominion War, and that was the for the final push on Cardassia..

    And Wolf 359 and the movie "First Contact", just to name the ones at the top of my head.


    Ah, but I like being Vice Admiral.:)

    Me to. This isn't old Trek (aside from a few ships), this is a multi-front war, it needs more than just Captains at the helm,
    Bracknell wrote:
    That is a sad truth. :(

    Same goes for the missing dorsal and ventral shields as well as full 3D space flight. There is as much evidence to true full 3D space flight in Star Trek that not even the DEVs could deny that it exists.

    And I disagree with that. I'm fine with cryptics reasons, space combat is fine, this isn't BC, and a few vocal people on the fourums, (like other issues) does not make a majority that they have to listen to.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    The real solution is to introduce the ranks such as Lt JG that Cryptic skipped in the initial rush to make people able to level to Captain in a decent amount of time. When new ranks are inserted the existing rank names could be adjusted for this (see below) and as long as everything happens at once instead of piecemeal this should prove ok with people. Even if they don't have the content to go with the higher level ranks that should still be ok - the ranks can be temporarily unavailable and serve as placeholders for additional high level content in the future.

    Oh, and get rid of the silly Lower/Upper Rear Admirals in the dialogue boxes (though keep the actual ranks in the leveling). Just call me Rear Admiral Aqua and allow me to command 4 escorting starships like you do BO's on the ground and I'll feel like a real Rear Admiral (otherwise known as a Commodore or Fleet Captain which is in charge of a task force in the field - such as the US's aircraft carrier groups), and that should be as far as we can level rank-wise.

    I'm ok-ish with the existence of Vice Admirals, but it shouldn't be a leveling rank but rather the rank granted to fleet leaders who have also reached the max Rear Admiral rank. This would go well with the introduction of fleet starbases.

    The top 2 levels of Admirals should be reserved exclusively for Cryptic employees & Stahl :D

    1-10 Ensign
    11-20 Lieutenant, Junior Grade
    21-30 Lieutenant
    31-40 Lieutenant Commander
    41-50 Commander
    51-60 Captain
    61-70 Rear Admiral (lower half) (one star admiral)
    71-80 Rear Admiral (upper half) (two star admiral) - really should be a base commander, not Vice Admiral

    See how that gives us a full 20 additional levels we can have without ridiculous rank inflation? You could even insert Midshipman for the first 10 ranks below Ensign for people to blow through in guided tutorials on all the main skills that you need - for added spice the Midshipmen could be commanding a runabout as part of their senior cruise.

    Some additional tweaks they could do based on time in grade requirements is increase the number of levels per grade instead of increasing the XP needed to reach the next level. The below is roughly based on the US Navy time requirements to reach the next rank without special dispensation.

    1-10 Midshipmen
    11-20 Ensign
    21-40 Lieutenant, Junior Grade (2nd year of service)
    41-90 Lieutenant (4th year of service)
    91-150 Lieutenant Commander (9th year of service)
    151-210 Commander (15th year of service)
    211 - Captain (21st year of service)

    However, given that the sheer number of levels gets a bit ridiculous I would prefer my first suggestion but use the second suggestion to roughly base the XP needed per level on.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    maina wrote: »
    And Wolf 359 and the movie "First Contact", just to name the ones at the top of my head.





    Me to. This isn't old Trek (aside from a few ships), this is a multi-front war, it needs more than just Captains at the helm,



    And I disagree with that. I'm fine with cryptics reasons, space combat is fine, this isn't BC, and a few vocal people on the fourums, (like other issues) does not make a majority that they have to listen to.

    +1

    minimum text goes here to satisfy the forum gods....
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