That is an unfair perception though. It has to do with sheer numbers. The players obviously outnumber the Devs, so it should come as no surprise that they can crank out more missions than the Dev staff can.
It doesn't matter if it's a fair perception or not. It's human nature.
Not to be rude, but i think yoru missing the point also.
A lot of people DO NOT think that player created content should ever be proposed as content by the Dev teams. At least that's how i look it, after all we are paying for a game on the premise that our money is used to better the game. In addition, the C-store was brought into the game as a means to supplement the revenue needed to continue development of the game. Now we are being told the Foundry will fill the space, anyone else see a trend here?
I don't say this to be confrontational, nor to be unfair to those involved, its just a prevalent attitude that has been around the forums since the announcement of the foundry, i would hope its taken in that context.
The player created content is not the "New" content, the Foundry is the new content. While you may not like the content "drought", I think many people are to quick to jump on the no new content bandwagon. The Foundry is a HUGE endeavor by a MMO with unlimited resources, let alone a small and dedicated DEV team like we have with these folks at Cryptic. If, after the Foundry and Season Four are launched and we still have to wait for 2 or 3 months for new content, THEN, and only maybe then, we can start worrying about no new content.
We have been spoiled by STO and the feeling of comradery we feel with this development team, but we need to lighten up or we will just come across as whiners when the honest fact is we all want this MMO to succeed and last a long time. Every time we make a DEV feel they have to respond to a thread is time away from the next bit of awesome that he/she has planned for us.
I haven't seen too many mentions of the Mission Architect system in the City of... games in this thread, which is too bad, since I think that it's the best precedent to look at. Sure, it'll have it's own issues,* and it may be hard to find good missions, but it has in no way shape or form stopped dev production at Paragon Studios. They've released not only a major paid expansion (Going Rogue), updated graphics, but another 5 or 6 major updates since its release. UGC has done literally nothing to stop or lessen official content production in any way. The same will happen in STO.
*Including draconian rules regarding which Star Trek characters we can or can not use...
One more quick note about the foundry... The Foundry will raise the bar for the quality of the DEV created missions. Do you think any DEV want to be outdone by the foundry? They have better tools and resources (maybe not time, but other... programming stuff.)
We have already seen on Tribble the quality of the missions that fans can produce with limited resources and some of them have been better than 75% of the current content in the game. I can tell by the posts of the DEVs that they take great pride in the work that they do and, if they are as competitive as they seem, the Foundry is the new ballgame with unlimited competition.
I want great new content out of the Foundry, but I am also looking forward to seeing how high the bar can go for the paid missions.
This made me laugh, for the simple fact of the resent turnovers at Cryptic
I don't know where other gamers work that turnover is so rare, but the last place I worked with over 500 employees had turnover of at least 6 a month, sometimes more.
You saying that the foundry provides content does not actually make it so. How many people are actually paying for this game to try out other players personal idea of what STO content should be? While i am not adverse to player made content, like i have said previously in other posts, i am adverse to a game that is using every available means to make money and also have the community make content for them.
I hope this isn't seen as confrontational, but you chimed in with simple facts, and would love to see them, even if its just internal edits of forum traffic on the particular subjects.
The day I have to choose what content I have to play is a better day for the game.
Right now, most of us have all played the two leveling paths: the Fed one and what-little-there-is for the KDF.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if I'm torn between playing part two of a great Foundry missions or playing the latest weekly - it's a better day for the game.
Right now, most of us have played/seen it all in-game. Between the increased dev content (10 Featureds? Are they insanse?) and oodles of fan-made content, it looks like I can log in and just play the best of the best, regardless of its source.
At least that's how i look it, after all we are paying for a game on the premise that our money is used to better the game.
For a lot of STO players, the Foundry is part of making the game better.
I'm not sure how much clearer Gozer can be in his responses. He's stated flat out that the Foundry is in no way, shape, or form a replacement for Dev-created content. They will continue doing their jobs and producing at least as much content as they already have. In addition, the goal is to add even more FEs to the mix, so we will get even more dev content.
The Foundry is just another game mechanic that players can use as the wish -- or not, as the case may be. It's is somehting a lot of us will enjoy and a lot won't.
I will get extensive use out of the Foundry; for me it is a great addition. I have no interest whatsoever in PvP, but it doesn't bother me that dev time is spent enhancing that aspect of the game. For *me* it's not content; for others it is major content. The Foundry falls into a similar category.
The player created content is not the "New" content, the Foundry is the new content.
Exactly; nicely put.
The Foundry itself is the content, just like any other new system implemented in the game.
Just like PvP, STFs, exploration, character/ship/Boff customization, or any other part of the game, players can choose what they want to do. This just adds more options and variety for more people to enjoy the game. This in turn generates more revenue and enables the dev team to keep pumping out new content and systems for us to have fun with.
It's a win all the way around. And it's a large part (many of the new additions and intended updates included) why my wife and I converted our 12-month preorder subs to lifetime during the anniversary event.
As someone (Nagus) has pointed out, Stahl has stated that they plan to increase the output of featured episodes to about 9 per year. That averages out to close to one new episode per week (if each FE consists of 5 missions, that would be 45 missions total). That is a pretty lofty goal for content for any game company. If that happens, the whole point of this thread is essentially moot. You will have an increase in Dev generated content and the UGC is an added bonus, which is what it was designed and publicized to be in the first place.
To defend the UGC, I played one of the missions and it was just as good as any Dev created mission. I wouldn't call it FE quality, but better than some of the regular missions. It did have some bug (pathing) issues, but hopefully those can be fixed soon.
As someone that wants to be, but is not yet, primarily a Klingon Empire player, I am really looking forward to The Foundry going live on Holodeck.
I'm looking forward to more KDF content. Not Starfleet content that's had the serial numbers filed off, but more content that is specifically designed for the KDF by people that actually care about the KDF.
That's what The Foundry means to me.
Will a lot of, perhaps even the majority of, the missions be junk? Maybe, ok probably. So what? I'm not so lazy that I can't spend a few minutes sorting missions, reading the reviews or perhaps only playing missions that have been given 5 stars by my fellow Klingon players.
And frankly I don't care if the mission that I run is "officially dev sanctioned canon content." Nothing in STO is canon anyway. And besides, as the paying customer I'm the one who decides what's canon for my character and what isn't.
If you're against The Foundry because you don't like the fact that the missions aren't canon... I can only say that I believe that you're in the vast minority. And personally, me and Joe Normaldude are going to be running Foundry missions like crazy and having a good time.
From Gozer's latest comments it's clear that they will remain focused on creating high quality Featured Episodes (which we all knew or should have known) instead of high quantities of smaller missions.
Any questions beyond this are really in DStahl's territory. And for that I'm still considering this statement:
Q: Mirror-Master: Are you planning on designing some additional KDF-only Episodes soon?
A: The KDF will continue to get some love in Season 4. Let met give you a few hints as to what is coming: First, we must allow new players to create a Klingon character as soon as they log into the game for the first time. Forcing players to play through 6 levels of Federation play first was only done because we didn't have time to make a Klingon Tutorial. Next, we need to give Qo'noS the same kind of revamp that we gave ESD - improving the flow and social spaces in the Qo'noS interior. Next, we need to then update all the missions that use the Qo'noS interior. Then we can start to look at the PVE level progression for the KDF and find out where there are big holes and were new episodes should go. So, we have lots of plans for the KDF. We have to start by allowing new players to create Klingons from day 1.
The Foundry will not diminish the creation of "faction agnostic" content where the devs know they can get the most bang for their buck. But it remains to be seen if they will indeed aim Cryptic's resources at creating "Faction Specific" content for the smaller faction in STO - The KDF.
Gozer cannot answer this question - only the Stahl man can. Will you honor what you said in the February Ask Cryptic? Or has this changed now since you're refocusing resources to create 9-10 Featured Series per year (and also The Foundry going live)?
The Foundry will not diminish the creation of "faction agnostic" content where the devs know they can get the most bang for their buck. But it remains to be seen if they will indeed aim Cryptic's resources at creating "Faction Specific" content for the smaller faction in STO - The KDF.
I am a strong supporter of player created content and I think that the STO Foundry system is the best system I have ever seen in a game to do so. I am really looking forward to this and it will add a huge variety of available missions for Fleets. It also allows the dev team to focus on other topics (not only mission content).
I mean ground combat update, PVP maps (with possible a regional control system (hope)).
I fully agree with Gozer and his statement (and comments in this thread).
Considering that Cryptic is in the business of making online multiplayer games, and considering that in this business more games equals more profit, and more profit means more games... I personally would rather see Cryptic be the creator of high-quality Worlds with meaningful and robust story-telling and gameplay frameworks that we can later use to fill in the gaps and make those worlds our own, just as much as Cryptic's!
If that's the vision that guides Cryptic in CO and STO... heck, I might even consider trying NWO when it comes out.
I'd rather reward a small team doing excellent and innovative things (which Cryptic proves to be), than a huge company that tries to entice me with empty time-sinks and game-design I consider antagonistic.
I think my worries is about timeline. Call it Lore, game story line or whatever. The time stream that everyone go along when they level they characters. The dev created missions and episodes fulfill the goal of advancing the Lore. Each time we play an basic mission (not patrol ones) or a FE, we go throw events that change the STO universe.
Will Foundry missions do that? Probably not, or not in an official manner unless it's endorsed by the devs. And maybe it can. A Foundry mission can be captured by the dev team, remasterized and put into the game as an official story telling mission. I will have no problem with that, I am sure some Foundry authors are capable to tell wonderful stories within the limited scoop Foundry tools at their disposition.
We will see, Gozer said they will still churning new content for us and I will tend to believe him. All I want is the game Lore to be fleshed out on both sides (FEDS and KDS).
I think my worries is about timeline. Call it Lore, game story line or whatever. The time stream that everyone go along when they level they characters. The dev created missions and episodes fulfill the goal of advancing the Lore. Each time we play an basic mission (not patrol ones) or a FE, we go throw events that change the STO universe.
Will Foundry missions do that? Probably not, or not in an official manner unless it's endorsed by the devs. And maybe it can. A Foundry mission can be captured by the dev team, remasterized and put into the game as an official story telling mission. I will have no problem with that, I am sure some Foundry authors are capable to tell wonderful stories within the limited scoop Foundry tools at their disposition.
We will see, Gozer said they will still churning new content for us and I will tend to believe him. All I want is the game Lore to be fleshed out on both sides (FEDS and KDS).
you know...that bother me as well.
That is a reason why I stoped reading the comic books/novels as well because they weren't canon so the Television shows/Movies could contradict it whenever.
If someone makes a mission that has the borg invade the Qu'nos system, but it never happens it will seem odd.
you know...that bother me as well.
That is a reason why I stoped reading the comic books/novels as well because they weren't canon so the Television shows/Movies could contradict it whenever.
If someone makes a mission that has the borg invade the Qu'nos system, but it never happens it will seem odd.
Same here. There is no doubt going to be inconsistencies with the "official" STO lore from Foundry missions, which I agree is a shame. At least to me, it is immersion breaking, yet I am glad the Foundry is coming for those who will truly enjoy it.
Same here. There is no doubt going to be inconsistencies with the "official" STO lore from Foundry missions, which I agree is a shame. At least to me, it is immersion breaking, yet I am glad the Foundry is coming for those who will truly enjoy it.
Which is why i thought the foundry was going to be a holodeck program building application.
Meh, i dunno. I do need that immersion though.
LOL! Unless you are running Borg missions, then it is Banana Splits, Chateu Picard and Cardassian Yamok Sauce. I think the Collective is opening a restaurant.
LOL! Unless you are running Borg missions, then it is Banana Splits, Chateu Picard and Cardassian Yamok Sauce. I think the Collective is opening a restaurant.
I am regularly getting Mark X gear loot from the Foundry missions I'm playing on my RA.
"The Featured Episode is where we as a team, you know we're a small team, we don't have a ton of resources, but we're doing what we can. But we can focus on making the new and the cool and the exciting new environments, new buildings, new locations you've never been, new aliens that haven't been in the game before, new types of weapons, new starships.
We can focus on new, as we're working on the Featured Episodes, and then when we're done we can put all of that stuff in The Foundry. So we're constantly feeding The Foundry with new stuff for you to use in your episodes. That is a beautiful relationship that is really going to keep The Foundry missions fresh because it's not going to be just making the same old episodes all the time, with the same old creatures, you're going to get to benefit from all the things we're doing in all of the Featured Episodes."
So it does seem like the plan going forward is, other than the Featured Episodes, the dev team will only work on adding things and improvements to the game, and all of the new content will come from The Foundry.
Personally, I don't think that's a bad idea.
(Highlighted in yellow)
This is EXACTLY what i said before. they are updating the Foundry since its Launch in Tribble and still will update through its first Launch in Holodeck.
As for the dailies that have been made with the weekly episodes, those may be somthing that we just start adding to the weekly episodes as a feature.
The dailys after a featured episode are such a great idea .. pls keep this as a feature .. i really like to play them alot more than B'tran random generated missions. But what i think is important is that these dailys should allways stick to the theme of the featured series. While the dailys in Eta Eridani are well done, they don't stick to the Devidians-Theme. That's why i really like the Breen-Dailys. And BTW pls also include a ground daily after each featured series.
Comments
It doesn't matter if it's a fair perception or not. It's human nature.
The player created content is not the "New" content, the Foundry is the new content. While you may not like the content "drought", I think many people are to quick to jump on the no new content bandwagon. The Foundry is a HUGE endeavor by a MMO with unlimited resources, let alone a small and dedicated DEV team like we have with these folks at Cryptic. If, after the Foundry and Season Four are launched and we still have to wait for 2 or 3 months for new content, THEN, and only maybe then, we can start worrying about no new content.
We have been spoiled by STO and the feeling of comradery we feel with this development team, but we need to lighten up or we will just come across as whiners when the honest fact is we all want this MMO to succeed and last a long time. Every time we make a DEV feel they have to respond to a thread is time away from the next bit of awesome that he/she has planned for us.
*Including draconian rules regarding which Star Trek characters we can or can not use...
We have already seen on Tribble the quality of the missions that fans can produce with limited resources and some of them have been better than 75% of the current content in the game. I can tell by the posts of the DEVs that they take great pride in the work that they do and, if they are as competitive as they seem, the Foundry is the new ballgame with unlimited competition.
I want great new content out of the Foundry, but I am also looking forward to seeing how high the bar can go for the paid missions.
I don't know where other gamers work that turnover is so rare, but the last place I worked with over 500 employees had turnover of at least 6 a month, sometimes more.
Right now, most of us have all played the two leveling paths: the Fed one and what-little-there-is for the KDF.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if I'm torn between playing part two of a great Foundry missions or playing the latest weekly - it's a better day for the game.
Right now, most of us have played/seen it all in-game. Between the increased dev content (10 Featureds? Are they insanse?) and oodles of fan-made content, it looks like I can log in and just play the best of the best, regardless of its source.
For a lot of STO players, the Foundry is part of making the game better.
I'm not sure how much clearer Gozer can be in his responses. He's stated flat out that the Foundry is in no way, shape, or form a replacement for Dev-created content. They will continue doing their jobs and producing at least as much content as they already have. In addition, the goal is to add even more FEs to the mix, so we will get even more dev content.
The Foundry is just another game mechanic that players can use as the wish -- or not, as the case may be. It's is somehting a lot of us will enjoy and a lot won't.
I will get extensive use out of the Foundry; for me it is a great addition. I have no interest whatsoever in PvP, but it doesn't bother me that dev time is spent enhancing that aspect of the game. For *me* it's not content; for others it is major content. The Foundry falls into a similar category.
Exactly; nicely put.
The Foundry itself is the content, just like any other new system implemented in the game.
Just like PvP, STFs, exploration, character/ship/Boff customization, or any other part of the game, players can choose what they want to do. This just adds more options and variety for more people to enjoy the game. This in turn generates more revenue and enables the dev team to keep pumping out new content and systems for us to have fun with.
It's a win all the way around. And it's a large part (many of the new additions and intended updates included) why my wife and I converted our 12-month preorder subs to lifetime during the anniversary event.
To defend the UGC, I played one of the missions and it was just as good as any Dev created mission. I wouldn't call it FE quality, but better than some of the regular missions. It did have some bug (pathing) issues, but hopefully those can be fixed soon.
I'm looking forward to more KDF content. Not Starfleet content that's had the serial numbers filed off, but more content that is specifically designed for the KDF by people that actually care about the KDF.
That's what The Foundry means to me.
Will a lot of, perhaps even the majority of, the missions be junk? Maybe, ok probably. So what? I'm not so lazy that I can't spend a few minutes sorting missions, reading the reviews or perhaps only playing missions that have been given 5 stars by my fellow Klingon players.
And frankly I don't care if the mission that I run is "officially dev sanctioned canon content." Nothing in STO is canon anyway. And besides, as the paying customer I'm the one who decides what's canon for my character and what isn't.
If you're against The Foundry because you don't like the fact that the missions aren't canon... I can only say that I believe that you're in the vast minority. And personally, me and Joe Normaldude are going to be running Foundry missions like crazy and having a good time.
Any questions beyond this are really in DStahl's territory. And for that I'm still considering this statement:
The Foundry will not diminish the creation of "faction agnostic" content where the devs know they can get the most bang for their buck. But it remains to be seen if they will indeed aim Cryptic's resources at creating "Faction Specific" content for the smaller faction in STO - The KDF.
Gozer cannot answer this question - only the Stahl man can. Will you honor what you said in the February Ask Cryptic? Or has this changed now since you're refocusing resources to create 9-10 Featured Series per year (and also The Foundry going live)?
Yes, that is indeed the question:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3445474#post3445474
I mean ground combat update, PVP maps (with possible a regional control system (hope)).
I fully agree with Gozer and his statement (and comments in this thread).
If that's the vision that guides Cryptic in CO and STO... heck, I might even consider trying NWO when it comes out.
I'd rather reward a small team doing excellent and innovative things (which Cryptic proves to be), than a huge company that tries to entice me with empty time-sinks and game-design I consider antagonistic.
Will Foundry missions do that? Probably not, or not in an official manner unless it's endorsed by the devs. And maybe it can. A Foundry mission can be captured by the dev team, remasterized and put into the game as an official story telling mission. I will have no problem with that, I am sure some Foundry authors are capable to tell wonderful stories within the limited scoop Foundry tools at their disposition.
We will see, Gozer said they will still churning new content for us and I will tend to believe him. All I want is the game Lore to be fleshed out on both sides (FEDS and KDS).
you know...that bother me as well.
That is a reason why I stoped reading the comic books/novels as well because they weren't canon so the Television shows/Movies could contradict it whenever.
If someone makes a mission that has the borg invade the Qu'nos system, but it never happens it will seem odd.
Same here. There is no doubt going to be inconsistencies with the "official" STO lore from Foundry missions, which I agree is a shame. At least to me, it is immersion breaking, yet I am glad the Foundry is coming for those who will truly enjoy it.
Even that un-incident had repercussions.
Which is why i thought the foundry was going to be a holodeck program building application.
Meh, i dunno. I do need that immersion though.
Aye. After all, if it were in the holodeck then you couldnt keep any of the loot you get from NPCs during the mission.
The Small Hypospray market is thankful.
NPCs scale to your level, that means you can get weapon and ship parts that match your level.
LOL! Unless you are running Borg missions, then it is Banana Splits, Chateu Picard and Cardassian Yamok Sauce.
I am regularly getting Mark X gear loot from the Foundry missions I'm playing on my RA.
(Highlighted in yellow)
This is EXACTLY what i said before. they are updating the Foundry since its Launch in Tribble and still will update through its first Launch in Holodeck.
The dailys after a featured episode are such a great idea .. pls keep this as a feature .. i really like to play them alot more than B'tran random generated missions. But what i think is important is that these dailys should allways stick to the theme of the featured series. While the dailys in Eta Eridani are well done, they don't stick to the Devidians-Theme. That's why i really like the Breen-Dailys. And BTW pls also include a ground daily after each featured series.
We get the same running non-Foundry missions too.
So what? The post I was replying to earlier was talking about Foundry missions:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3449341#post3449341
What do non Foundry missions have to do with that?