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Why is Crytic Putting Out "Old School" Bridge/Interiors/Uniforms?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Don't get me wrong I have nostalgia for old school Star Trek. I grew up on TNG...so I still would love to see a real good Sovereign bridge and interior kit (From Star Trek Nemesis). It's not even truly old school as that was 2003...but I respect those who are drooling to see the new TOS interior kit.
But really....I have really hope Cryptic stops there. If they have limited resources, which they do, instead of going ahead and making say a Enterprise interior or Voyager interior, why not devote time to finally solving once for all the scaling issue with ship interiors, which they said could be done...and really designing a 25th century bridge design that would be used with the latest Enterprise starship in 2409.
And address some complaints, like the overly large bridge and hallways, and also the complaint as to why the view screen has to be so small. They can make it a little bigger. And why the captain's chair has to be raised so high as it is in the new Sovereign bridge pack.
Why not create windows on the ceiling of the bridges, which is done in canon? Why not connect the Observation Lounge to the bridges...as is does in canon, and they did design a nice looking diplomatic room for a mission.
Please, I don't diss those who like old school Star Trek stuff...but can't Cryptic devote some resources to improving the game and adding stuff in the current timeline?
You could put those in the C-Store too and gamers would buy it. There is MORE of an audience for improved and new bridge and interiors kit for the current timeline than there is for rehashing old school stuff.
But really....I have really hope Cryptic stops there. If they have limited resources, which they do, instead of going ahead and making say a Enterprise interior or Voyager interior, why not devote time to finally solving once for all the scaling issue with ship interiors, which they said could be done...and really designing a 25th century bridge design that would be used with the latest Enterprise starship in 2409.
And address some complaints, like the overly large bridge and hallways, and also the complaint as to why the view screen has to be so small. They can make it a little bigger. And why the captain's chair has to be raised so high as it is in the new Sovereign bridge pack.
Why not create windows on the ceiling of the bridges, which is done in canon? Why not connect the Observation Lounge to the bridges...as is does in canon, and they did design a nice looking diplomatic room for a mission.
Please, I don't diss those who like old school Star Trek stuff...but can't Cryptic devote some resources to improving the game and adding stuff in the current timeline?
You could put those in the C-Store too and gamers would buy it. There is MORE of an audience for improved and new bridge and interiors kit for the current timeline than there is for rehashing old school stuff.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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^^^ Thats the reason.
Im not begrudging anyone who buys them. Whatever floats your boat. Im just starving for new 25th century stuff though...or even finding a solution to overlarge interiors like you mentioned.
While its all updated to '25th century'...its still too legacy to me.
According to, I believe it was Dstahl, the TOS bridge will be used as a testing ground for more canonically sized interiors. So there ya go, apparently this is the first step toward what you're looking for. If it works there, well we'll see similar changes disseminate to the other interiors as well no doubt. And if it doesn't work... uh, might want to wait on buying that TOS pack until someone else let's you know...
EDIT
Yup, it was Dstahl:
/EDIT
And the complaining was enormous. The cries of They Changed it Now It Sucks were heard across the forums; and of course the primary request was "We want our <insert pre-STO Trek> stuff."
So that's what they've been putting out.
Just you watch: When they do eventually need to create brand new stuff again (and I'd like to see it, though I don't mind the old stuff either), the complaining will once again reach earsplitting levels. Why? Because everyone has their own idea of what is visually "Star Trek" enough; and so no matter what they create - be it ship, uniform, interior, or anything else, it's going to be an abomination to someone.
There are some very vocal players whio keep demanding such fluff for their own sakes, and since Cryptic "listens to it's fans" (read as: caters to the vocal elements of it's fanbase, letting them set the course of development instead of taking a stand and concentrating on other things like bugfixes and content creation), that kinda stuff takes precedence. Example: The NX-01 wasn not slated to be inthe game, it was on nobody's drawing-board when STO launched (Things like the Excelsior, Nebula, AGT Enterprise, etc. WERE onthe board, just not in at launch) - it was put it at what for Cryptic was breaknexck speed since a subset of players were VERY vocally demanding it, no matter how out of place it is in terms of the game's timeline. They retconned it as a "remake" of the original, - basically a showpiece that somehow got commissioned as a low-end ship and was put into production.
Same witht he variuous interiors - some players clamored for it loudly and long enough where CVryptic caved and spent resources on implementing them. And believe you me, given Cryptic's' small team, it was resources they could ill afford to spend. But The Fans Wanted It, no matter how little sense it made or just how Fan Dumb it was (and you should read the TvTropes entry for STO - it goes into near-pages on the Broken and Unpleaseable Fanbase, the copious amounts of Fan Dumb and Fan **** that goes on here, among other things).
Just expect that kinda thing to keep happening, until:
1) STI b3ecomes a mongrel, much like other Cryptic cames
2) The game finally gets too unbelievable as a Star Trek IP, and either the ST fans make a mass excodus or CBS pulls the plug for contract violations (and diluting the franchise would certainly count as that)
3) The game is renamed and the models replaced with comething else, as the ST ttrademark no longer applies.
For any of the above, the players have nobody but the whiny, demanding, vocal minority to blame.
Actually, (IMHO) the NX was added so fast because at the starting level (where one first encounters this vessel) there was only ONE ship to fly (unless one happen to purchase the Target-TOS Enterprise version of the game).
By making the NX available at the starting level, it adds more variety (and interest) to folks trying out the game, introduces them to the C-Store Feature and brings in more money for game development.
I'm hoping they also make the new "Wulcan Wessel"
That way there will be one of each style/type of ship for new players to try out. (TAC=NX... ENG=TOS Enterprise... SCI=Vulcan...)
That may be true, id like to think it was a combination of factors. To me its both this and a very loud and vocal fan support for putting in legacy designs.
Put it another way, instead of the enterprise, they could have made a different ship for tier 1, perhaps what Cryptic might envision to be an entirely new 25th century frigate design. The Shi'kaar doesnt count, its more of a refit implemented in the initial construction.
mistformsquirrel has it right, the reason we have this stuff is because STO wasnt alot people's Trek, and they conveniently ignored the fact that this is the 25th century, not the 24th or 23rd. Jut like how many 'fans' conveniently try to ignore Enterprise series by saying its non-canon, they are pretty selective as to what they would 'allow' to be in this game.
And when you consider that cryptic, whether they need the money or the marketing guys tell them to do it, have to put stuff in the C-Store, the only logical thing to do is give us what we tell them sells, since we're buying it. And back then, what 'everyone' wanted was more past designs, and scrap the new. Sad really.
Because we wanted them.
You only say that because it's not you they listen to. I don't care for caitans or TOS bridges, but I do like stuff like the new Sector Space or the Refits of several Tier 4 ships, or more Klingon content. I look forward to the ground combat overhaul and a Exploration Sector Revamp. All that comes from Cryptic listening to the fanbase.
It is a good thing.
Bugfixes are boring. Yes, if I encounter a bug, it's annoying, but no one will ever play this game and say "well, it's totally bug-free, that's awesome. I mean, there are barely ship choices and I can't even play my favorite one at end-game, and planets look like lollipops in Sector Space, but boy, did my game totally never crash or did! Awesome!"
Bugfixes are necessary, and they happen. It's part of what the fans ask for. But the other stuff is also a necessity.
And it's not like they haven't been producing new content. What was it? 50 new missions in some form or shape in the past year? Yeah, it's not enough. It's never enough.
The second Weekly series already showed us that investing time into "old" interiors like the TOS bridge might be time well-spent. Time Travel is not that uncommon in Startrek.
I'd settle for the Oberth, but would really prefer having a simpler version of the D'Kyr...
Just because it would be another way to let folks first trying the game out, know that STO is not just Federation (Earth/Human) orientated...
They can read that the Klingon Faction is included in the game, but they can't play with those "toys" at the beginning levels.
Having a Vulcan Ship there could entice a few more players into possibly paying for a monthly sub (or even buying a LTS).
Variety IS the spice of life and is something that would definitely show off the many aspects of STO game play.
It's not sad, just not what you want. Cryptic is a business, that means making money to pay people. Just like whatever you work for.
Star Trek for the largest part of the fanbase is not new. Look at all the canon arguments, that is all based on old stuff. We are only in the 25th century to provide new storylines at a MMO level and introduce some new mechanics that work game wise.
To the OP, the answer to your question is easy to figure out if you are a Star Trek fan, and not just a gamer. It also has been answered long ago on these forums.
Slapping all new stuff on this game with no old content, makes it a lame remake like Battlestar Galactica. New BG was some one that needed a name to sell his story. I see it that way because a mmorpg based on future Trek would be the "Enterprise" or JJ movie of current canon.
I understand that, and thats what i pointed out really. Its just sad for me and those like me i guess. Mis-typed.
I look forward to seeing this happen.
The new stuff adds variety and "newness" for lack of a better term that builds upon the original. I think overall Cryptic has done a great job of creating new stuff that still has the Star Trek feel to it.
For those of us who play multiple characters (I have no alts, just lots of mains), this is fantastic. I have one captain who's crew is entirely garbed in TOS uniforms, who will use only "canon" ships, and generally keep the old school feel. I have another who's crew is strictly TNG in appearance. Another is only in new uniforms. The list goes on.
Without the "old school" material, it wouldn't feel as much like Star Trek as it does now. The blending of old and new is good and gives the game a more varied perspective for a broader playerbase.
Variety is good.
CBS puts the ok on every ship and uniform, nothing gets in CBS doesn't want in.
A TOS bridge and interior is one of the top requested FOUNDRY environments that is currently not available.
But hopefully high up on the priority list? All those budding time-travel opportunities just waiting for an environment to spawn in
As for why the NX-01, unless I'm mistaken, the NX-01 Replica is the only exposure STO has to Enterprise [ship-combat wise anyway]. Sure it makes sense why there wasn't much/any, but there is still the desire to see the ship in the game.
Consider how 'frustrating' it would have been if we only had the 'cryptic designed' Tier 5 ships, instead of the iconics.
Better go through my post history - I have NEVER, NOT EVEN ONCE, called for fluff to be added to this game. Sorry to shoot you down there
It is NOT a good thing when the fans are listened to exclusive of content creation and bugfixing - when fluff takes PRECEDENCE over missions/arenas/exploit resolution.
After a bit of that, you have a game that's mostly fluff. What good is it to have whatever spiffy ship with nothing to do in it, OR to have another spiffy ship whose powers are nigh-useless because of rushed implementation elsewhere (I'm looking at the AGT Enterprise here)? What good is it to have a fancy uniform with no-one to show it off to? Or, conversely, what good is said spiffy uniform when it's has no unique-ness, and everyone else's wearing it?
This is the major problem with your thesis: FANS DON'T CARE WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE GAME OVERALL, BY DEFINITION THEY ARE MYOPIC. ST fans in general have a reputation for being moey myopic than most, and that's plain to see both in game chat AND on the Forums here.
A game isn't a game with nothing to do, just a bunch of pretty objects and nothing to do with 'em. Some games can get away with it because of their very premise (Minecraft, for one) - STO doesn't have that excuse. The very brand name, with over 50 years of associated reputation, l;eads to certain expectations that are not being met.
Instead of grand action-adventure we get fluff. C-Store items instead of brave new worlds. Extended and POINTLESS combat in a series that was originally about peaceful exploration. We have every single MMO Cryptic's ever made IN SPACE with little to no of the Star Trek promise. Now that the game's been out a YEAR, we're starting to get people on the team who actually "get it" - understand that that feel is why people will play STO - and are making steps in that direction. Yet, here we are inthe fanbase calling for MORE FLUFF from a small team (210 people over at Cryptic TOTAL, of which there's 32 graphic artists/texture people - and 15 programmers (Source:LinkedIn's company profile on Cryptic Studios).That's COMPANY-WIDE, for no less than FOUR MMOS either out or in development. Things over there are high-stree, as evidenced by the 1.5 year turnover rate (avearge employee over at Cryptic onl lasts a year and a half).
Hell, I keep calling for the fans to give 'em a break and let 'em do their jobs, rather than continue to make fluff at the expense of other things. Look over my post history; you'll see. That makes your comment about how "it's not me they listen to" in terms of fluff a bit of a foot-in-mouth on your part, eh?
Bugfixes may be boring, but they ARE essential How many people never finshed the Bajoran mission series because the pathing was bugged in the "Into the Fire" quest and people were losing their away teams in the lava, OR (even worse) had their BOFFs just standing there on the bridges, unable to move or take action, because of the bugged pathing? Bit of a game-breaker there. They made a shiny that gets ONE shot at it's opponent with all weapons - it doesn't have the maneuverability to use it's capabilities to the fullest, so if you don't make the most of that one shot you're pretty much hosed? Or have you forgotten the AGT Enterprise and the reaction to how ill-thought-out some things were on it?
Shinies without bugfixes and better devugging alienate players far more than just not having shinies. NOTING is worse than giving someone a new toy- then finding out it's broken in soem way. Better to not give it until it's reasonably stable, AND all the consequences are thought out (such as botht he Biothermal Dampener and the Cryp-Grenade fiascos have shown - people are already screaming for the devs NOT to nerf the cryo-grenade in social hubs, even though as it is it's a prime tool for griefing others, jsut as the Biothermal Dampener was? That's TWICE they made the same mistake - because The Fans Wanted It.
Back to the main point - I'd rather have FEWER ships and MORE TO DO IN THEM, rather than MORE SHIPS and LESS TO DO. To me, that's a no-brainer - bu5t it does requre that the developers have enough of a backbone to be able to prioritize things. The REALLY successful companies manage to do so with ease, and verify for themselves whatt he fans are telling them before changes are implemented. You may have heard of some of them - Blizzard, whose ONLY respose to fan demands is "We're looking into it" OR "It'll be ready when it's ready!". Cryptic needs such a backbone before this becomes Star Trek Playset Online, instead of Star Trek Online.
Enough - I think you get the point. At least I hope so - my fingers are getting tired
You do realize CBS has FINAL approval on EVERTHING with regard to STO, right; and that approval has either delayed or outrifght changed many a deployment schedule when CBS has saiod either "Needs work."; or "No" (which happened with regard to Kzinti being added.)
My point: CBS is well aware of what's being done in STO and has been approvining everything added to the game from day one.
I instantly purchased not only the TOS uniforms but the pre-order Constellation class ship as well, and made a new crew dedicated to the TOS era. When I did the episode chain that ended with "Night of the Comet" and found out that there were type II phasers and type III phaser rifles that scaled with your level I nearly lost it.
I then replayed that mission over and over until I had one or the other for each member of that crew and with each new crew member it gets replayed again. Incidentally that crew is the best in performing ground and interior battles as opposed to my others.
I would certainly welcome TOS bridge interiors as well as TOS "canon" ship design with open arms.
I feel that this game is all about ones own personal love for Star Trek no matter what era you are designed around.
Why one would not welcome TOS design or any other era of Star Trek into the game for that matter to me just simply makes no sense.
Personally I'm crossing my fingers for a "flip open communicator" on beam up instead of the "badge tap" because on my TOS crew that does seem a little silly. I have seen threads posted about optional transporter "beam" effects, fingers crossed on that as well.
To me customization in this game is no different than customizing your cellphone, and that I completely understand from owning a Motorola Krave that I installed a LCARS wallpaper and a TOS comm beep ringtone.
Thank you Cryptic for everything you do for us in making this game enjoyable.
You do realize that the art team and content design team are not the same people, correct?
There is no reason for the art team to sit on their hands while content designers are doing their thing. If new art is called for by the content designers for their work, then I would agree that more time should be devoted to the art for that.
Otherwise, let the art team do their jobs -- which includes making what you refer to as "fluff" (though I consider it an integral part of the whole).
Dstahl already gave one solid reason for the new art coming; it impacts gameplay via the Foundry -- a major new part of the game .
It's not an either/or situation here. I sincerely doubt the C-Store or fluff are taking too many resources away from "real" content development. I'd be willing to bet some of what we see on the store is in part the result of content development.
I mean, we are going to have TOS interiors, more TOS uniform, we have TOS rfile, and 2 TOS Pistols.
But, we don`t even have a single TNG gun for VA.. yes, we have those horrible phasers with those horrible holograms, but ¿tng guns? None.. we dont even have Sovereign bridge!
I understand, we cant have Data or any of the TNG character, they are expensive, but Cryptic, dont forget something, TNG was the most popular Star Trek series.
Dont get me wrong, i love the Enterprise pack. They need to do that because there was a complete series that was forgotten, but we already have a TOS ship, a TOS uniform with female variants and even a TOS mirrow uniform.
I think now its time to fix the current time lime stuff. The 24-25 century interiors need to get fix, i mean, ¿have you seen the Sovereign bridge pack? jesus..
I have to use Antiproton pistols with mi rol character because the 25 century phaser are horrible and nothing close to canon, but we have perfect TOS guns..
Because we have been wanting this since before you were born, there are a lot of us, and we have more disposable income than you.
TNG is also "old school" if you take the OP's premise that development should be focused on the "current" modern universe of STO. TNG is the second oldest set -- and I have no doubt that Cryptic will be adding more from that series too and similar complaints will be made.
There is a reason why the older uniforms from several of the series (e.g., TOS, TNG, DS9) were included as preorder perks: Cryptic knows that Star Trek fans want them, regardless of the official time period of the game. They were and still are major selling points.
Well, in mi opinion TNG move era its not old school, the Sovereign, the Galaxy, the Intrepid, Defiant, and old those ships are made to live 100 years, so its logical to assume that they are part of the 25 Star Fleet.
I want more canon stuff, I have to said that I love canon ship, but TOS stuff should not go before 24 century stuff, not because its bad or good, its because we are at the beginnings of the 25 century, not at the 23th.