Greetings, fellow players of this as-yet incomplete, but enjoyable game!
I would like to introduce myself, I am a Solo player. I do not enjoy grouping. I do not believe it is in the best interests of any player to join a group. Fleets are evil. Fleets are the mysterious and shadowy manipulators that are blackmailing and strong-arming Cryptic into shaping the game into the image desired by the Illuminati (or, should I say, the Illumi-Fleet-i?)...
I believe it is self-evident that simply belonging to one of these dark and terrible organizations called 'Fleets' will instantly turn even the most average player into a super-l33t player of unquestioned ability and power. These uber-rich and uber-powerful groups of players, I believe, are pushing for a 'vote-to-kick' system, ostensibly, to reduce the instances of AFK-'griefing' that occurs frequently in PvP Matches. These evil 'Fleets' want to have this power, because, I believe, it will give them the opportunity to exclude all players that are not a part of their villianous regime from all PvP Matches.
In conclusion, I believe that due to the power of these evil 'Fleets' and their evil henchman (I mean, 'Members'), the game is dying a slow, painful death...
Oh... And... QQ
Fixed that for you... :rolleyes:
All kidding aside, it IS very frustrating to enter into PvP Matches, with every intention of giving 100% effort and trying to win, only to have 1 or more people in the Match that will not join a team, or simply sit at the spawn point, in no way contributing to the Match (or, less frequently buy more frustratingly, actively sabotaging the game by stripping their shields off and running into the opposing team to die).
One of several reasons that many good PvP players end up joining Fleets is this very situation... Is it not better to fly with 2, 3, or 4 people that you know will be flying alongside you and giving their all, just as much as you will? I prefer to fly with my Fleetmates, because we have spent a lot of time learning each others abilities, builds, and worked on strategy that works for us; however, they are not always available, so I will PuG any time that none of my Fleetmates are available. My attitude going into PuGs remains the same as when I fly with my Fleet, I will give 100% effort and contribute as best that I have learned how to do (for the record, I fly a Cruiser and I throw Heals, even in PuGs :eek: ).
I never judge or criticize the efforts of anyone that I fly with, Fleetmate or PuG, if they actively and willingly participate. I know that I am far from the best player out there, I have learned a lot since my first (horrifying) experiences in PvP, but there is always more to learn, many of the people I have flown with through the months have been very patient with me as I have gone through some of those (painful) learning experiences, I try to extend the same courtesy to every person that I fly alongside. Players that just sit in a Match "to get their Emblems" are taking away from the enjoyment of their fellow players and deserve much of the condemnation which they have recieved in this thread.
Solving this problem, however, can be more complicated than simply adding a 'vote-to-kick' possibility, even if strict criteria for initiation of such a vote were implemented. Even with such a system, there will still be players who find a way to abuse the system and get around such a deterrent. Thus, I propose that, instead of implementing a negative system of deterrence ('vote-to-kick', short-term bans, etc.), implement a positive system of incentive that encourages teamwork and cooperation, without penalizing players of vastly different skill levels.
Tying Emblem rewards for PvP only to 'Winning' is a poor solution that will likely serve to whittle down the PvP player-base, even further than it already is. The biggest losers in such a situation would be Klingon players, as FvK would, effectively, be dead, as, regardless of the facts, there is a perception by a considerable portion of the player-base that the Klingons are either overpowered or unbeatable in PvP (again, despite indications or rational discussions to the contrary). Additionally, PvP as a whole might very well be dead for anyone but organized PvP Fleets, who would be the only ones willing to invest the time to potentially gain Emblems under these circumstances.
Proposal:
1.) Separate Emblem rewards for 'Participation' in Daily PvP (Arena and C&H, or their Ground equivalents) Matches and for 'Victory' in those Daily PvP Matches. In this system, Ker'rat should be excluded from the Daily PvP list and given it's own system of rewards, perhaps, becoming a new, stand-alone Daily.
2.) 'Participation' Emblems: 1 Emblem awarded for completion of 1 PvP Match, maximum of 3 can be earned during a day in which this is the Daily PvP Mission. Mission is either turned in by the player, upon completion of 3 Matches, or is automatically turned it (at its current level of completion and granting its 1 or 2 Emblems) by the system at 4AM PST, when the system issues a new PvP Daily.
3.) 'Victory' Emblems: 1 or 2 (Cryptic's call) Emblems for each WIN in the given PvP Daily Mission, maximum of 3/6 Emblems can be earned during the day. Same system for turn-in as the 'Participation' Emblems.
- While having these separate Emblem Rewards probably will not completely eliminate the instances of AFK-griefing, the extra Emblems for Victories will encourage the more serious players to participate in more Matches, in search of those 'Bonus' Emblems.
- Alternately, the 'Participation' Emblems could be up to 3 Daily, for ANY kind of PvP (of the chosen type for the day), while the 'Victory' Emblems could be 1 per Win in FvF or KvK (up to 3 per day), and 1 per Win in FvK. This solution would encourage greater particpation in more varied gametypes by all of the player-base.
In short, anything that helps to encourage active participation in PvP will be a good thing, and anything that helps to encourage participation in FvK will be a great thing.
All kidding aside, it IS very frustrating to enter into PvP Matches, with every intention of giving 100% effort and trying to win, only to have 1 or more people in the Match that will not join a team, or simply sit at the spawn point, in no way contributing to the Match (or, less frequently buy more frustratingly, actively sabotaging the game by stripping their shields off and running into the opposing team to die).
One of several reasons that many good PvP players end up joining Fleets is this very situation... Is it not better to fly with 2, 3, or 4 people that you know will be flying alongside you and giving their all, just as much as you will? I prefer to fly with my Fleetmates, because we have spent a lot of time learning each others abilities, builds, and worked on strategy that works for us; however, they are not always available, so I will PuG any time that none of my Fleetmates are available. My attitude going into PuGs remains the same as when I fly with my Fleet, I will give 100% effort and contribute as best that I have learned how to do (for the record, I fly a Cruiser and I throw Heals, even in PuGs :eek: ).
I never judge or criticize the efforts of anyone that I fly with, Fleetmate or PuG, if they actively and willingly participate. I know that I am far from the best player out there, I have learned a lot since my first (horrifying) experiences in PvP, but there is always more to learn, many of the people I have flown with through the months have been very patient with me as I have gone through some of those (painful) learning experiences, I try to extend the same courtesy to every person that I fly alongside. Players that just sit in a Match "to get their Emblems" are taking away from the enjoyment of their fellow players and deserve much of the condemnation which they have recieved in this thread.
Solving this problem, however, can be more complicated than simply adding a 'vote-to-kick' possibility, even if strict criteria for initiation of such a vote were implemented. Even with such a system, there will still be players who find a way to abuse the system and get around such a deterrent. Thus, I propose that, instead of implementing a negative system of deterrence ('vote-to-kick', short-term bans, etc.), implement a positive system of incentive that encourages teamwork and cooperation, without penalizing players of vastly different skill levels.
Tying Emblem rewards for PvP only to 'Winning' is a poor solution that will likely serve to whittle down the PvP player-base, even further than it already is. The biggest losers in such a situation would be Klingon players, as FvK would, effectively, be dead, as, regardless of the facts, there is a perception by a considerable portion of the player-base that the Klingons are either overpowered or unbeatable in PvP (again, despite indications or rational discussions to the contrary). Additionally, PvP as a whole might very well be dead for anyone but organized PvP Fleets, who would be the only ones willing to invest the time to potentially gain Emblems under these circumstances.
Proposal:
1.) Separate Emblem rewards for 'Participation' in Daily PvP (Arena and C&H, or their Ground equivalents) Matches and for 'Victory' in those Daily PvP Matches. In this system, Ker'rat should be excluded from the Daily PvP list and given it's own system of rewards, perhaps, becoming a new, stand-alone Daily.
2.) 'Participation' Emblems: 1 Emblem awarded for completion of 1 PvP Match, maximum of 3 can be earned during a day in which this is the Daily PvP Mission. Mission is either turned in by the player, upon completion of 3 Matches, or is automatically turned it (at its current level of completion and granting its 1 or 2 Emblems) by the system at 4AM PST, when the system issues a new PvP Daily.
3.) 'Victory' Emblems: 1 or 2 (Cryptic's call) Emblems for each WIN in the given PvP Daily Mission, maximum of 3/6 Emblems can be earned during the day. Same system for turn-in as the 'Participation' Emblems.
- While having these separate Emblem Rewards probably will not completely eliminate the instances of AFK-griefing, the extra Emblems for Victories will encourage the more serious players to participate in more Matches, in search of those 'Bonus' Emblems.
- Alternately, the 'Participation' Emblems could be up to 3 Daily, for ANY kind of PvP (of the chosen type for the day), while the 'Victory' Emblems could be 1 per Win in FvF or KvK (up to 3 per day), and 1 per Win in FvK. This solution would encourage greater particpation in more varied gametypes by all of the player-base.
In short, anything that helps to encourage active participation in PvP will be a good thing, and anything that helps to encourage participation in FvK will be a great thing.
Just some thoughts,
-Big Red
I like this idea of rewarding participation instead of punishing lack of....
@darksun3452 ,I would like to say to you....huh? First of all,most of the content in STO can be done solo,only a few missions actually require you to work with other players.(STF's , fleetactions don't really count,as 'teamwork' is not required,but it helps to have more players in that instance)
Second....like minded people will always find each other and form groups,in this case,fleets.You as a player that dislikes teamplay,will stay alone,and that's ok....but do not villianise people that do like teamplay and join a fleet....just because you feel leftout of some content that can't be solo'd.
PvP is about teamwork: united we stand,divided we fall. The reason why fleets dominate in PvP is that teamwork is a given.And people that play solo PvE for the most part, never learned to work with others and it's no surprise they do badly when they are 'forced' to teamplay.
All kidding aside, it IS very frustrating to enter into PvP Matches, with every intention of giving 100% effort and trying to win, only to have 1 or more people in the Match that will not join a team, or simply sit at the spawn point, in no way contributing to the Match (or, less frequently buy more frustratingly, actively sabotaging the game by stripping their shields off and running into the opposing team to die).
One of several reasons that many good PvP players end up joining Fleets is this very situation... Is it not better to fly with 2, 3, or 4 people that you know will be flying alongside you and giving their all, just as much as you will? I prefer to fly with my Fleetmates, because we have spent a lot of time learning each others abilities, builds, and worked on strategy that works for us; however, they are not always available, so I will PuG any time that none of my Fleetmates are available. My attitude going into PuGs remains the same as when I fly with my Fleet, I will give 100% effort and contribute as best that I have learned how to do (for the record, I fly a Cruiser and I throw Heals, even in PuGs :eek: ).
I never judge or criticize the efforts of anyone that I fly with, Fleetmate or PuG, if they actively and willingly participate. I know that I am far from the best player out there, I have learned a lot since my first (horrifying) experiences in PvP, but there is always more to learn, many of the people I have flown with through the months have been very patient with me as I have gone through some of those (painful) learning experiences, I try to extend the same courtesy to every person that I fly alongside. Players that just sit in a Match "to get their Emblems" are taking away from the enjoyment of their fellow players and deserve much of the condemnation which they have recieved in this thread.
Solving this problem, however, can be more complicated than simply adding a 'vote-to-kick' possibility, even if strict criteria for initiation of such a vote were implemented. Even with such a system, there will still be players who find a way to abuse the system and get around such a deterrent. Thus, I propose that, instead of implementing a negative system of deterrence ('vote-to-kick', short-term bans, etc.), implement a positive system of incentive that encourages teamwork and cooperation, without penalizing players of vastly different skill levels.
Tying Emblem rewards for PvP only to 'Winning' is a poor solution that will likely serve to whittle down the PvP player-base, even further than it already is. The biggest losers in such a situation would be Klingon players, as FvK would, effectively, be dead, as, regardless of the facts, there is a perception by a considerable portion of the player-base that the Klingons are either overpowered or unbeatable in PvP (again, despite indications or rational discussions to the contrary). Additionally, PvP as a whole might very well be dead for anyone but organized PvP Fleets, who would be the only ones willing to invest the time to potentially gain Emblems under these circumstances.
Proposal:
1.) Separate Emblem rewards for 'Participation' in Daily PvP (Arena and C&H, or their Ground equivalents) Matches and for 'Victory' in those Daily PvP Matches. In this system, Ker'rat should be excluded from the Daily PvP list and given it's own system of rewards, perhaps, becoming a new, stand-alone Daily.
2.) 'Participation' Emblems: 1 Emblem awarded for completion of 1 PvP Match, maximum of 3 can be earned during a day in which this is the Daily PvP Mission. Mission is either turned in by the player, upon completion of 3 Matches, or is automatically turned it (at its current level of completion and granting its 1 or 2 Emblems) by the system at 4AM PST, when the system issues a new PvP Daily.
3.) 'Victory' Emblems: 1 or 2 (Cryptic's call) Emblems for each WIN in the given PvP Daily Mission, maximum of 3/6 Emblems can be earned during the day. Same system for turn-in as the 'Participation' Emblems.
- While having these separate Emblem Rewards probably will not completely eliminate the instances of AFK-griefing, the extra Emblems for Victories will encourage the more serious players to participate in more Matches, in search of those 'Bonus' Emblems.
- Alternately, the 'Participation' Emblems could be up to 3 Daily, for ANY kind of PvP (of the chosen type for the day), while the 'Victory' Emblems could be 1 per Win in FvF or KvK (up to 3 per day), and 1 per Win in FvK. This solution would encourage greater particpation in more varied gametypes by all of the player-base.
In short, anything that helps to encourage active participation in PvP will be a good thing, and anything that helps to encourage participation in FvK will be a great thing.
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
what total bullshxt,
you forgot to put the '"GO ARMY!!!", rant in there,
you must not have played the many pvp games out there over the years,
you allways have uber haxzers and uber group [clubs, guild, now fleets], that scrxew over the other players in the game,
???villianise people that do like team play????.
is this a game or TRIBBLE?
your fleets have the best stuff and the best officer training and have you spent any time in the fraking
end zones????
it full of uber fleet dudes telling everone they are lame,
and if some one dose not like you, forget it.
I couldn't figure out all of the rant, but I know of several fleets and fleet members that do not act this way unless provoked.
i payed for the game, like all the others in this game , " feeling leftout of some content that can't be solo'd."
is total bullshxt, , everyone should be able to play reguardless of play style, is this just a game from 1990's??......
is there only one play style?
your style dude?
you suxk.
MMO's are about social groups and game play. If you are looking for single play game style, STO has it but some missions will always be team oriented (pug or fleet) becuase it is an MMO.
before you go on and on about teamplay, go join the army see what real "teamplay " is like you useless drone.
Too late- already done my bit for God and country.
further, if this was going to be a "fleet only ", it should have been told to everyone before it went live,
no one wanted to play a fleet only game,
i have read many post here and on other fourms about people leaving the game because
it's pointless to play if you have no end game content and instead of asking the makers to step up,
you all start blaming eveyrthing in site,other then the truth as griefing???????
AFKers,?????
you give fleets the "vote out power",
you think PVP sucks now and will it even be playable lololololololololololo,lolollololol,
really you all about a stupid as a rock.
once the "AFkers" are gone , the uber fleets will use there "KIck to win power " to keep the rest of you out of the games, anyone who ever spent time really playing PVP, has seen it happen,
you all are letting them scrxw you and you run strait forward it to it.
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
So would it be safe to assume you can tell the difference between someone doing nothing while sitting on a point in cap 'n hold and someone doing nothing sitting elsewhere on the map.
The last thing cap n hold needs is to start rewarding people for ignoring the objective and just shooting at each other. It'd be nice to see the rewards in cap n hold be handed out based on the time spent capturing and defending points rather than just total damage done if you're looking at rewarding active participation.
what has killed most other pvp games and the fun of pvp is "vote griefers" ,
wich is what i keep seeing here be put forth to "fix", PVP that is lame.
I can actually understand and agree with this post. I too think that allowing the teams involved to vote players out of a match is the wrong direction to go towards a fix.
Though I do not understand your hatred for fleets.
So would it be safe to assume you can tell the difference between someone doing nothing while sitting on a point in cap 'n hold and someone doing nothing sitting elsewhere on the map.
The last thing cap n hold needs is to start rewarding people for ignoring the objective and just shooting at each other. It'd be nice to see the rewards in cap n hold be handed out based on the time spent capturing and defending points rather than just total damage done if you're looking at rewarding active participation.
Yeah that's what I worry about too. A lot of times I see my team members go for the kill in these maps. So I use that as an opportunity to go for the capture. It works out great a lot of times. Last thing I want is to be penalized for completing the objectives in capture and hold instead of worrying about how much damage I accumulate. Which, sadly, is already the case.
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
what total bullshxt,
you forgot to put the '"GO ARMY!!!", rant in there,
you must not have played the many pvp games out there over the years,
you allways have uber haxzers and uber group [clubs, guild, now fleets], that scrxew over the other players in the game,
???villianise people that do like team play????.
is this a game or TRIBBLE?
your fleets have the best stuff and the best officer training and have you spent any time in the fraking
end zones????
it full of uber fleet dudes telling everone they are lame,
and if some one dose not like you, forget it.
it's worse then when shadowbane was full noob losers.
i payed for the game, like all the others in this game , " feeling leftout of some content that can't be solo'd."
is total bullshxt, , everyone should be able to play reguardless of play style, is this just a game from 1990's??......
is there only one play style?
your style dude?
you suxk.
before you go on and on about teamplay, go join the army see what real "teamplay " is like you useless drone.
further, if this was going to be a "fleet only ", it should have been told to everyone before it went live,
no one wanted to play a fleet only game,
i have read many post here and on other fourms about people leaving the game because
it's pointless to play if you have no end game content and instead of asking the makers to step up,
you all start blaming eveyrthing in site,other then the truth as griefing???????
AFKers,?????
you give fleets the "vote out power",
you think PVP sucks now and will it even be playable lololololololololololo,lolollololol,
really you all about a stupid as a rock.
once the "AFkers" are gone , the uber fleets will use there "KIck to win power " to keep the rest of you out of the games, anyone who ever spent time really playing PVP, has seen it happen,
you all are letting them scrxw you and you run strait forward it to it.
I personally don't hate fleets, but I also have NO use for them. When the game launched, I joined a couple of different fleets, just for the sole purpose of having extra bank space and a costume slot. That's when things started getting lame...
"Why don't you participate in scrimages?"
"Your part of a team now, which means you have to adhere to a certain kind of build to maximize our effectiveness!"
"You need to take more buffs to help us out!"
"You haven't recruited anyone yet, why not?"
Blah blah blah...
I am not anti-social or anything, but seriously... when I log on, I don't need 30+ personal messages/mails all asking/telling me these things. Besides, I am much more of a Soloist anyway. I am a min/maxer at heart, and I litterally spend entire days dreaming up new builds that the devs will soon nerf to hell because it's TOO good. LOL
Am I out for personal glory? ABSOLUTELY.
Nothing pleases me more than completely WASTING the opposition and getting mails from my PUGs or opponents entitled "HOW DID YOU DO THAT?!?!".
I think that any "participation" reward should requires a minimum contribution to match. Require a minimum amount od combat points be acquired during the match. combat points would come from both damage given and damage healed(self and allies).
That way, only the AFKer loses out, but even a poor PvPer could accumulate the requied points by just healing and taking shots at hostiles.
If they are healing themselves, then they are being engaged by the enemy. If they re healing allies, they are helping the cause, if they are damaging hostiles, they are helping the cause...even if they never get a kill.
Through any combination of the above, the player will contribute, and regardless of thier prowess, they'd eventually accumilate points during the match and be eligible for the reward.
Even if they only did it up until they made the pre-requiste points(ideally, there would be no way to know whre you stand point wise), they have still contributed, it may have given the team the head start it needed to win, and who knows, the time spent getting to the required points might get fun for the player, and they'll keep fighting through the remainder of the fight.
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
-snix
Please [if you have not] keep in mind that participation may not be in damage/heal on some missions ... simply capture, or sucking up damage to distract is also participation.
If I run into a mess and pull several people away from my team to allow them to capture. We are all participating, yet may not have damage/heals.
I couldn't figure out all of the rant, but I know of several fleets and fleet members that do not act this way unless provoked.
MMO's are about social groups and game play. If you are looking for single play game style, STO has it but some missions will always be team oriented (pug or fleet) becuase it is an MMO.
Too late- already done my bit for God and country.
I recomend that you seek proffesional help.
Assuming the guy wasn't being totally snarky.
You+me= in total agreement for once. l
I love the idea of points based on participation. However, I still feel it doesn't solve the fact that they are going to get any emblems just to sign up for the q and enter the match. These are the kinds of people that just don't care about how many emblems they make as long as they make them.
It really is for those people that I wish we could have a Vote To Kick option. Yes it -could- be abused if not implemented carefully but it can be successfully implemented. I've played more than a few games with them that worked pretty well.
But I will take what I can get. These people do need to be Punished somehow for being Griefers. Even if it is just with greatly diminished returns.
So would it be safe to assume you can tell the difference between someone doing nothing while sitting on a point in cap 'n hold and someone doing nothing sitting elsewhere on the map.
The last thing cap n hold needs is to start rewarding people for ignoring the objective and just shooting at each other. It'd be nice to see the rewards in cap n hold be handed out based on the time spent capturing and defending points rather than just total damage done if you're looking at rewarding active participation.
They do have a way to determan that, someone sitting there not doing anything like at the start point will have no numbers going up on a cap site or anything else for that matter, where as someone who is contributing will have those numbers + KM's moved, ship turning total degrees and what not. So, yah, I think its a great idea but the voeting thing..hmm..I have to agree with the other people that vote grieve, but, if its a team wide vote (say 8 vs 8) say 4 people vote yes and 3 vote no then that might work better. Off the top of my head I cannot think of a way to make it fair to the non-grievers for voteing only that maybe they should keep the PvP matchs linited to 2v2 4v4 6v6 and so on...(even number matchs to have a majority vote out, it is canon lol).
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
-snix
Very good to hear, thanks for chiming in, Snix. Means a lot to us. :cool:
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
-snix
Yay!
Just so long as the rewards aren't tied to the incorrectly reported healing, it sounds fun.
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
-snix
Best news I've heard about PvP since S1.2 was announced!
Will it be something along the lines of # of Emblems for Participation AND Wins during those Matches?
Or will Participation and Wins be kept separate, so that even if a player ends up in a Match or two with people that only are trying to get the Participation Emblems, they will be able to continue playing until they receive their Emblems for Winning a certain # of Matches? Thereby rewarding the players that willingly/want to put in the extra time and effort to score the 'bonus' Emblems for wins.
Either way, thank you for the feedback, snix, it is always appreciated when you or your fellow Devs offer input and feedback!
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
-snix
A: Integrate capturing points into Cap and Hold. Someone capturing solo gains more points than a group....simple enough, points accumulate while the flag is transitioning and player is within range. While someone may not have access to the best of equipment and not put up good damage or healing numbers, they can at least still 'participate' gaining cpture points.
B: Award for healing as well as damage. Healing to be broken into two categories; self heal and heal other. Heal other possibly awarded 150% of credit over heal self
C: DO NOT add bonuses 'for winning'. There is no reason why a shining player in a PUG should be penalized because their team didn't have the same organization of a PvP oriented fleet including voice comms. Also, the level of smacktalk, while diminished, is still a bit much from time to time. Victory related bonuses only give braggards a reason to rub it in while sore loosers will only complain more. Face it, I'm sure you guys get enough complaints from a 'broken pvp system' now. Do you Devs REALLY want even more abuse?? :P
A: Integrate capturing points into Cap and Hold. Someone capturing solo gains more points than a group....simple enough, points accumulate while the flag is transitioning and player is within range. While someone may not have access to the best of equipment and not put up good damage or healing numbers, they can at least still 'participate' gaining cpture points.
B: Award for healing as well as damage. Healing to be broken into two categories; self heal and heal other. Heal other possibly awarded 150% of credit over heal self
C: DO NOT add bonuses 'for winning'. There is no reason why a shining player in a PUG should be penalized because their team didn't have the same organization of a PvP oriented fleet including voice comms. Also, the level of smacktalk, while diminished, is still a bit much from time to time. Victory related bonuses only give braggards a reason to rub it in while sore loosers will only complain more. Face it, I'm sure you guys get enough complaints from a 'broken pvp system' now. Do you Devs REALLY want even more abuse?? :P
Excuse me, there is no reason why a team, that spends time cooperating, planning, training should not be rewarded for their time, especially since everyone can join a fleet, everyone can que up as a team and everyone can spend time training together (duh)
There is no reason why a player that cannot be bothered to fly as part of a team should get the same rewards as someone that spend a lot of time doing just that.
Excuse me, there is no reason why a team, that spends time cooperating, planning, training should not be rewarded for their time, especially since everyone can join a fleet, everyone can que up as a team and everyone can spend time training together (duh)
There is no reason why a player that cannot be bothered to fly as part of a team should get the same rewards as someone that spend a lot of time doing just that.
Remember, there is no "I" in team.
You're excused.
Star Trek is one of the few institutions that bridges the gap between generations. Grandparents and grandchildren all are attracted to a game based on it. 'Grandmom' may not have the time or be able to be online when her particular fleet does their pvp dailies. 'Little Suzy' might not be allowed to be in voice comms (remember, there are 'bad internet people') or she may be too young to qualify for most fleets. ** 'Grandpop' and 'Little Timmy' deserve mention here as well.
There are casual players in their 20's and 30's that might not be able to devote every waking moment to fleet PvP as well. In gaming and in life, family usually has to come first.
(Duh) NOT everyone >can< do fleet PvP. It's not always a matter of choice. If you're going to add participation bonuses it HAS to be on an individual basis. If you want 'Victory Bonuses' then ask the Devs to integrate a leaderboard, sortable by average damage dealt, average healing, victories, and fleet name. (Which I very much support)
Best news I've heard about PvP since S1.2 was announced!
Will it be something along the lines of # of Emblems for Participation AND Wins during those Matches?
Or will Participation and Wins be kept separate, so that even if a player ends up in a Match or two with people that only are trying to get the Participation Emblems, they will be able to continue playing until they receive their Emblems for Winning a certain # of Matches? Thereby rewarding the players that willingly/want to put in the extra time and effort to score the 'bonus' Emblems for wins.
Either way, thank you for the feedback, snix, it is always appreciated when you or your fellow Devs offer input and feedback!
-Big Red
The plan is for participation and wins to be tracked as seperate daily missions.
So the mission list might look like this:
"Play 15 PvP battles" that earns a small amount of Emblems.
"Win 3 PvP battles" that earns a decent amount of Emblems.
"Win 4 PvP battles" (including the original 3 wins from the mission above, so 1 more win) that earns a few Emblems
"Win 5 PvP battles" (including the original 4 wins from the mission above, so 1 more win) that earns a final Emblem
So from the example above, a player that enjoys PvP but fails to win any games will earn some Emblems just for being in 15 games. While playing those 15 games or continuing to play after the 15, if they should win 3 battles they'll earn more Emblems, win 4 and earn more, win 5 and earn the most.
The goal being that you'll earn more Emblems for your devoted time if you work together to win, but you'll still earn something even if you can't pull off a victory.
The plan is for participation and wins to be tracked as seperate daily missions.
So the mission list might look like this:
"Play 15 PvP battles" that earns a small amount of Emblems.
"Win 3 PvP battles" that earns a decent amount of Emblems.
"Win 4 PvP battles" (including the original 3 wins from the mission above, so 1 more win) that earns a few Emblems
"Win 5 PvP battles" (including the original 4 wins from the mission above, so 1 more win) that earns a final Emblem
So from the example above, a player that enjoys PvP but fails to win any games will earn some Emblems just for being in 15 games. While playing those 15 games or continuing to play after the 15, if they should win 3 battles they'll earn more Emblems, win 4 and earn more, win 5 and earn the most.
The goal being that you'll earn more Emblems for your devoted time if you work together to win, but you'll still earn something even if you can't pull off a victory.
-snix
I have a question as a casual player- Assuming that 15 matches a day is the daily bench mark for the PvP daily, would any matches carry over to the next day?
For example, if I only had time to play in 5 or 6 matches on a certain evening. And then I played in 9-10 more matches on the next day. Would that give the participation reward when I completed the full 15? Or would it reset to needing 15 matches required on the next day?
I have a question as a casual player- Assuming that 15 matches a day is the daily bench mark for the PvP daily, would any matches carry over to the next day?
For example, if I only had time to play in 5 or 6 matches on a certain evening. And then I played in 9-10 more matches on the next day. Would that give the participation reward when I completed the full 15? Or would it reset to needing 15 matches required on the next day?
There's likely a 24 cooldown from mission start.
This means once you've accept a mission, you have 24 hours to complete the mission goals. All the other daily objectives work on a similar mechanic (though slightly less than 24 hours).
This solution looks good, snix, and is relatively similar to some of the suggestion that have been thrown around already. Thanks for working on this, snix. I am looking forward to seeing this online.
I have a question as a casual player- Assuming that 15 matches a day is the daily bench mark for the PvP daily, would any matches carry over to the next day?
For example, if I only had time to play in 5 or 6 matches on a certain evening. And then I played in 9-10 more matches on the next day. Would that give the participation reward when I completed the full 15? Or would it reset to needing 15 matches required on the next day?
Thanks
It does for all forms of existing daily missions (and not just PvP). So I think it's reasonable to assume the same will be true for these.
The "perk" can be that, if you're hopping characters a lot, you can focus one one or two each day, and just log in on the others to accept the daily mission. On the enxt day, you can then complete that mission and start a new one (provided it's really about a day since you last took the mission.) - and of course, also complete it.
This solution looks good, snix, and is relatively similar to some of the suggestion that have been thrown around already. Thanks for working on this, snix. I am looking forward to seeing this online.
I'll honestly be surprised if this change solves an AFK issues. Other MMOs use the "participate = reward, win = bigger reward" method as well and are still plagued with AFK players in the match regardless. You simply can not underestimate a gamer's resolve to earn stuff through zero effort.
Comments
Fixed that for you... :rolleyes:
All kidding aside, it IS very frustrating to enter into PvP Matches, with every intention of giving 100% effort and trying to win, only to have 1 or more people in the Match that will not join a team, or simply sit at the spawn point, in no way contributing to the Match (or, less frequently buy more frustratingly, actively sabotaging the game by stripping their shields off and running into the opposing team to die).
One of several reasons that many good PvP players end up joining Fleets is this very situation... Is it not better to fly with 2, 3, or 4 people that you know will be flying alongside you and giving their all, just as much as you will? I prefer to fly with my Fleetmates, because we have spent a lot of time learning each others abilities, builds, and worked on strategy that works for us; however, they are not always available, so I will PuG any time that none of my Fleetmates are available. My attitude going into PuGs remains the same as when I fly with my Fleet, I will give 100% effort and contribute as best that I have learned how to do (for the record, I fly a Cruiser and I throw Heals, even in PuGs :eek: ).
I never judge or criticize the efforts of anyone that I fly with, Fleetmate or PuG, if they actively and willingly participate. I know that I am far from the best player out there, I have learned a lot since my first (horrifying) experiences in PvP, but there is always more to learn, many of the people I have flown with through the months have been very patient with me as I have gone through some of those (painful) learning experiences, I try to extend the same courtesy to every person that I fly alongside. Players that just sit in a Match "to get their Emblems" are taking away from the enjoyment of their fellow players and deserve much of the condemnation which they have recieved in this thread.
Solving this problem, however, can be more complicated than simply adding a 'vote-to-kick' possibility, even if strict criteria for initiation of such a vote were implemented. Even with such a system, there will still be players who find a way to abuse the system and get around such a deterrent. Thus, I propose that, instead of implementing a negative system of deterrence ('vote-to-kick', short-term bans, etc.), implement a positive system of incentive that encourages teamwork and cooperation, without penalizing players of vastly different skill levels.
Tying Emblem rewards for PvP only to 'Winning' is a poor solution that will likely serve to whittle down the PvP player-base, even further than it already is. The biggest losers in such a situation would be Klingon players, as FvK would, effectively, be dead, as, regardless of the facts, there is a perception by a considerable portion of the player-base that the Klingons are either overpowered or unbeatable in PvP (again, despite indications or rational discussions to the contrary). Additionally, PvP as a whole might very well be dead for anyone but organized PvP Fleets, who would be the only ones willing to invest the time to potentially gain Emblems under these circumstances.
Proposal:
1.) Separate Emblem rewards for 'Participation' in Daily PvP (Arena and C&H, or their Ground equivalents) Matches and for 'Victory' in those Daily PvP Matches. In this system, Ker'rat should be excluded from the Daily PvP list and given it's own system of rewards, perhaps, becoming a new, stand-alone Daily.
2.) 'Participation' Emblems: 1 Emblem awarded for completion of 1 PvP Match, maximum of 3 can be earned during a day in which this is the Daily PvP Mission. Mission is either turned in by the player, upon completion of 3 Matches, or is automatically turned it (at its current level of completion and granting its 1 or 2 Emblems) by the system at 4AM PST, when the system issues a new PvP Daily.
3.) 'Victory' Emblems: 1 or 2 (Cryptic's call) Emblems for each WIN in the given PvP Daily Mission, maximum of 3/6 Emblems can be earned during the day. Same system for turn-in as the 'Participation' Emblems.
- While having these separate Emblem Rewards probably will not completely eliminate the instances of AFK-griefing, the extra Emblems for Victories will encourage the more serious players to participate in more Matches, in search of those 'Bonus' Emblems.
- Alternately, the 'Participation' Emblems could be up to 3 Daily, for ANY kind of PvP (of the chosen type for the day), while the 'Victory' Emblems could be 1 per Win in FvF or KvK (up to 3 per day), and 1 per Win in FvK. This solution would encourage greater particpation in more varied gametypes by all of the player-base.
In short, anything that helps to encourage active participation in PvP will be a good thing, and anything that helps to encourage participation in FvK will be a great thing.
Just some thoughts,
-Big Red
I like this idea of rewarding participation instead of punishing lack of....
@darksun3452 ,I would like to say to you....huh?
Second....like minded people will always find each other and form groups,in this case,fleets.You as a player that dislikes teamplay,will stay alone,and that's ok....but do not villianise people that do like teamplay and join a fleet....just because you feel leftout of some content that can't be solo'd.
PvP is about teamwork: united we stand,divided we fall. The reason why fleets dominate in PvP is that teamwork is a given.And people that play solo PvE for the most part, never learned to work with others and it's no surprise they do badly when they are 'forced' to teamplay.
PvP is not for the antisocial.
Signed/ best idea I've seen so far
Oh the irony of it all...
I think somebody needs a hug. :rolleyes:
We are actually working on a solution very similar to BigRedJedi's suggestion of providing rewards for participation, with bonus rewards for victory, for PvP Daily missions.
The key issue is providing the correct ratio of participation to reward, so that it is more time efficient to try for a win rather than just go AFK to grind out the 'participation' rewards.
I'm hoping this will go in soon after the Season 3 launch.
-snix
Hurray! Awsome news.
MMO's are about social groups and game play. If you are looking for single play game style, STO has it but some missions will always be team oriented (pug or fleet) becuase it is an MMO.
Too late- already done my bit for God and country.
[/QUOTE]
I recomend that you seek proffesional help.
So would it be safe to assume you can tell the difference between someone doing nothing while sitting on a point in cap 'n hold and someone doing nothing sitting elsewhere on the map.
The last thing cap n hold needs is to start rewarding people for ignoring the objective and just shooting at each other. It'd be nice to see the rewards in cap n hold be handed out based on the time spent capturing and defending points rather than just total damage done if you're looking at rewarding active participation.
I can actually understand and agree with this post. I too think that allowing the teams involved to vote players out of a match is the wrong direction to go towards a fix.
Though I do not understand your hatred for fleets.
Yeah that's what I worry about too. A lot of times I see my team members go for the kill in these maps. So I use that as an opportunity to go for the capture. It works out great a lot of times. Last thing I want is to be penalized for completing the objectives in capture and hold instead of worrying about how much damage I accumulate. Which, sadly, is already the case.
YAY!
567890
Well.....never mind....Roach beat me to it.:cool:
"Why don't you participate in scrimages?"
"Your part of a team now, which means you have to adhere to a certain kind of build to maximize our effectiveness!"
"You need to take more buffs to help us out!"
"You haven't recruited anyone yet, why not?"
Blah blah blah...
I am not anti-social or anything, but seriously... when I log on, I don't need 30+ personal messages/mails all asking/telling me these things. Besides, I am much more of a Soloist anyway. I am a min/maxer at heart, and I litterally spend entire days dreaming up new builds that the devs will soon nerf to hell because it's TOO good. LOL
Am I out for personal glory? ABSOLUTELY.
Nothing pleases me more than completely WASTING the opposition and getting mails from my PUGs or opponents entitled "HOW DID YOU DO THAT?!?!".
That way, only the AFKer loses out, but even a poor PvPer could accumulate the requied points by just healing and taking shots at hostiles.
If they are healing themselves, then they are being engaged by the enemy. If they re healing allies, they are helping the cause, if they are damaging hostiles, they are helping the cause...even if they never get a kill.
Through any combination of the above, the player will contribute, and regardless of thier prowess, they'd eventually accumilate points during the match and be eligible for the reward.
Even if they only did it up until they made the pre-requiste points(ideally, there would be no way to know whre you stand point wise), they have still contributed, it may have given the team the head start it needed to win, and who knows, the time spent getting to the required points might get fun for the player, and they'll keep fighting through the remainder of the fight.
Please [if you have not] keep in mind that participation may not be in damage/heal on some missions ... simply capture, or sucking up damage to distract is also participation.
If I run into a mess and pull several people away from my team to allow them to capture. We are all participating, yet may not have damage/heals.
Assuming the guy wasn't being totally snarky.
You+me= in total agreement for once. l
I love the idea of points based on participation. However, I still feel it doesn't solve the fact that they are going to get any emblems just to sign up for the q and enter the match. These are the kinds of people that just don't care about how many emblems they make as long as they make them.
It really is for those people that I wish we could have a Vote To Kick option. Yes it -could- be abused if not implemented carefully but it can be successfully implemented. I've played more than a few games with them that worked pretty well.
But I will take what I can get. These people do need to be Punished somehow for being Griefers. Even if it is just with greatly diminished returns.
They do have a way to determan that, someone sitting there not doing anything like at the start point will have no numbers going up on a cap site or anything else for that matter, where as someone who is contributing will have those numbers + KM's moved, ship turning total degrees and what not. So, yah, I think its a great idea but the voeting thing..hmm..I have to agree with the other people that vote grieve, but, if its a team wide vote (say 8 vs 8) say 4 people vote yes and 3 vote no then that might work better. Off the top of my head I cannot think of a way to make it fair to the non-grievers for voteing only that maybe they should keep the PvP matchs linited to 2v2 4v4 6v6 and so on...(even number matchs to have a majority vote out, it is canon lol).
Very good to hear, thanks for chiming in, Snix. Means a lot to us. :cool:
Yay!
Just so long as the rewards aren't tied to the incorrectly reported healing, it sounds fun.
Best news I've heard about PvP since S1.2 was announced!
Will it be something along the lines of # of Emblems for Participation AND Wins during those Matches?
Or will Participation and Wins be kept separate, so that even if a player ends up in a Match or two with people that only are trying to get the Participation Emblems, they will be able to continue playing until they receive their Emblems for Winning a certain # of Matches? Thereby rewarding the players that willingly/want to put in the extra time and effort to score the 'bonus' Emblems for wins.
Either way, thank you for the feedback, snix, it is always appreciated when you or your fellow Devs offer input and feedback!
-Big Red
A: Integrate capturing points into Cap and Hold. Someone capturing solo gains more points than a group....simple enough, points accumulate while the flag is transitioning and player is within range. While someone may not have access to the best of equipment and not put up good damage or healing numbers, they can at least still 'participate' gaining cpture points.
B: Award for healing as well as damage. Healing to be broken into two categories; self heal and heal other. Heal other possibly awarded 150% of credit over heal self
C: DO NOT add bonuses 'for winning'. There is no reason why a shining player in a PUG should be penalized because their team didn't have the same organization of a PvP oriented fleet including voice comms. Also, the level of smacktalk, while diminished, is still a bit much from time to time. Victory related bonuses only give braggards a reason to rub it in while sore loosers will only complain more. Face it, I'm sure you guys get enough complaints from a 'broken pvp system' now. Do you Devs REALLY want even more abuse?? :P
Excuse me, there is no reason why a team, that spends time cooperating, planning, training should not be rewarded for their time, especially since everyone can join a fleet, everyone can que up as a team and everyone can spend time training together (duh)
There is no reason why a player that cannot be bothered to fly as part of a team should get the same rewards as someone that spend a lot of time doing just that.
Remember, there is no "I" in team.
You're excused.
Star Trek is one of the few institutions that bridges the gap between generations. Grandparents and grandchildren all are attracted to a game based on it. 'Grandmom' may not have the time or be able to be online when her particular fleet does their pvp dailies. 'Little Suzy' might not be allowed to be in voice comms (remember, there are 'bad internet people') or she may be too young to qualify for most fleets. ** 'Grandpop' and 'Little Timmy' deserve mention here as well.
There are casual players in their 20's and 30's that might not be able to devote every waking moment to fleet PvP as well. In gaming and in life, family usually has to come first.
(Duh) NOT everyone >can< do fleet PvP. It's not always a matter of choice. If you're going to add participation bonuses it HAS to be on an individual basis. If you want 'Victory Bonuses' then ask the Devs to integrate a leaderboard, sortable by average damage dealt, average healing, victories, and fleet name. (Which I very much support)
Par tic i pa tion doesn't always mean winning.
The plan is for participation and wins to be tracked as seperate daily missions.
So the mission list might look like this:
- "Play 15 PvP battles" that earns a small amount of Emblems.
- "Win 3 PvP battles" that earns a decent amount of Emblems.
- "Win 4 PvP battles" (including the original 3 wins from the mission above, so 1 more win) that earns a few Emblems
- "Win 5 PvP battles" (including the original 4 wins from the mission above, so 1 more win) that earns a final Emblem
So from the example above, a player that enjoys PvP but fails to win any games will earn some Emblems just for being in 15 games. While playing those 15 games or continuing to play after the 15, if they should win 3 battles they'll earn more Emblems, win 4 and earn more, win 5 and earn the most.The goal being that you'll earn more Emblems for your devoted time if you work together to win, but you'll still earn something even if you can't pull off a victory.
-snix
I have a question as a casual player- Assuming that 15 matches a day is the daily bench mark for the PvP daily, would any matches carry over to the next day?
For example, if I only had time to play in 5 or 6 matches on a certain evening. And then I played in 9-10 more matches on the next day. Would that give the participation reward when I completed the full 15? Or would it reset to needing 15 matches required on the next day?
Thanks
This means once you've accept a mission, you have 24 hours to complete the mission goals. All the other daily objectives work on a similar mechanic (though slightly less than 24 hours).
It does for all forms of existing daily missions (and not just PvP). So I think it's reasonable to assume the same will be true for these.
The "perk" can be that, if you're hopping characters a lot, you can focus one one or two each day, and just log in on the others to accept the daily mission. On the enxt day, you can then complete that mission and start a new one (provided it's really about a day since you last took the mission.) - and of course, also complete it.
I'll honestly be surprised if this change solves an AFK issues. Other MMOs use the "participate = reward, win = bigger reward" method as well and are still plagued with AFK players in the match regardless. You simply can not underestimate a gamer's resolve to earn stuff through zero effort.