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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    OKay, lets do a small comparison here to weigh the contributions of the factions to the total ST story...

    Feds have been involved in ALL of it for 44+yrs.

    Klingons have been involved for maybe 2yrs worth of content. 3 tops. A few good story lines to develop from while the Ancient Enemy adds in quite an open-ended story.

    Romulans - maybe 1yr of content. Not so well fleshed out with story lines to develop from.

    Cardies - maybe maxed out around 2yrs worth just because of all the plot lines involving them in DS9

    No single faction should ever have content to equal the Feds. It just wouldn't be representative of our experiences with the ST IP so far.

    So, that doesn't make a bit of difference. The point is to EXPAND on the IP, you know that Klingons and Romulans have been warp capable for longer than the humans right? And Yes I know Humans are not the whole federation but either way. Any and other factions should have the exact same amount of content as the Federation.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    No single faction should ever have content to equal the Feds. It just wouldn't be representative of our experiences with the ST IP so far.

    Perhaps you havent noticed, but this isnt a TV show, it is a video game. And when you actually advertise your video game as having two factions, for some strange reason people actually expect 2 factions, not 1.5(or more like 1.25).
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I am surprised at the general negative reaction to my idea. When did Factions become the heart of STO? What happened to players working together and not competing in some kind of crazy idealistic Federation? Guess exclusion is more satisfying to people than inclusion?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I am surprised at the general negative reaction to my idea. When did Factions become the heart of STO? What happened to players working together and not competing in some kind of crazy idealistic Federation? Guess exclusion is more satisfying to people than inclusion?

    If Klingons wanted to play Federation, they'd play Federation. Well, in reality, we all have Fed alts, but you get my meaning. We prefer the Klingon faction because it offers something different, and something that we prefer to the Federation style play.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yet is the content is equalized to be the ame for Klingon and Federation Factions, wont you lose that unique difference?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yet is the content is equalized to be the ame for Klingon and Federation Factions, wont you lose that unique difference?

    LMAO. Did you really just say that? The current content disparity between factions is not a "unique difference", it is a pathetic difference. What SHOULD be the unique difference between the factions in an MMO is their story; what makes them who they are and what they are fighting for.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yet is the content is equalized to be the ame for Klingon and Federation Factions, wont you lose that unique difference?

    That's part of why if you go back and review my thread history, you'll see that I've been arguing that new Klingon content should be distinct from Fed content, i.e. not the same. That's why I like the idea in the newest Ask Cryptic of having Klingons, for example, salvage or pirate technology to use for crafting, rather than scanning anomalies. I could even see Klingon Diplomacy, with missions like supplying one faction in a planetary war with weapons to use to crush their enemies, or 'protecting' the shipments of a newly warp-capable world from Orion pirates in exchange for mining rights, etc.

    Klingon content expanding is a pretty good thing. Content being reskinned and swapped over to the other side is a bad thing.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    this idea has my support, even if it's unlikely to do it n.n
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    LMAO. Did you really just say that? The current content disparity between factions is not a "unique difference", it is a pathetic difference. What SHOULD be the unique difference between the factions in an MMO is their story; what makes them who they are and what they are fighting for.

    One of the rare instances I am in complete agreement with the Nagus.:D
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I have been thinking on the Klingon Players desire to have equal content to the Federation Players. Perhaps we could solve this dilemma by merging the factions as Allies? The impending Iconian Invasion would be a marvelous pretext for this. Let the enemy be NPC's. Let PvP be war games and give them good rewards for training for war. Let the Klingons take out their war notions on holographic foes like Janeway suggested to the Hirogen. Your thoughts folks?

    I support this idea from both a canon standpoint and a gameplay standpoint.

    As for the canon, even Gowron the Foolish could see that fighting the Cardassians and making enemies of the Federation, was not a brilliant thing to do. Especially when the chasm between the Empire and the Federation was brought about by a shape-shifting entity from another quadrant....

    Sound familiar?

    I could see an event occuring, something along the lines of the "Scourge Invasion" event (for those familiar with WoW) where the Undine launch a massive attack aimed at crippling the Klingons and the Federation. The Klingons are reluctant at first, but they begin to see that there can be no hope for the survival of the Empire unless they embrace the Federation as an ally, rather than continue a pointless war. Afterall, Kahless said "destroying an Empire to win a war is no victory."

    From a gameplay standpoint, this would instantly give the Klingons a PvE path, and would give the ability to team up between Klingons and Federation for the more difficult STFs and such. In terms of PvP, I really like the "wargames" idea, which allows the Klingons and Federation to "practice" against one another. Furthermore, I could see a distinct PvE path for Klingons still becoming reality. I once proposed an idea which would allow the Klingons and Federation to be allied, but with their single player PvE paths being more inwardly focused. IE, the Klignon Single Player PvE is focused on internal matters of the Empire, while the Federation Single Player PvE stays focused on the Federation.

    Yes, alot of the Federation early content is wrapped around Klingons as enemies. So, Cryptic would need to go in and change that. Perhaps the Gorn and Orions, unhappy about the repaired relations between the Empire and the Federation, become the primary low level antagonists.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Gotta say, though I think Klingons are lame, the idea that they're too stupid to do their own research and have to salvage technology, or outright steal it, is even more lame.

    For the record, if Cryptic wants to have factions, then every faction should be fully fleshed out. Yes, like Horde/Alliance in World of Warcraft.

    I can't wait for the Romulan faction, and I love the idea of doing science/diplomacy missions while commanding a Warbird. Adding Romulans also begs for espionage missions, but that's a whole other can of worms.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    From a gameplay standpoint, this would instantly give the Klingons a PvE path, and would give the ability to team up between Klingons and Federation for the more difficult STFs and such. In terms of PvP, I really like the "wargames" idea, which allows the Klingons and Federation to "practice" against one another. Furthermore, I could see a distinct PvE path for Klingons still becoming reality. I once proposed an idea which would allow the Klingons and Federation to be allied, but with their single player PvE paths being more inwardly focused. IE, the Klignon Single Player PvE is focused on internal matters of the Empire, while the Federation Single Player PvE stays focused on the Federation.

    Yes, alot of the Federation early content is wrapped around Klingons as enemies. So, Cryptic would need to go in and change that. Perhaps the Gorn and Orions, unhappy about the repaired relations between the Empire and the Federation, become the primary low level antagonists.

    So wait...what would happen to my Gorn and Orion toons? And what purpose would this serve? You want Cryptic to spend time that could be spent developing new content instead redoing all the low level Federation missions? To what purpose? If I want to play a Federation Klingon, I can play a Federation Klingon. Why do you want to take away my distinct gameplay?

    Your suggestion requires a lot of work for Cryptic, and provides no benefit for anyone other than your sense of canon.

    The one thing I do agree with is that Feds and Klinks should be able to group for STFs, but that's because in the game, their fleets are gathered right next to each other, and they're working together against a common enemy.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I support this idea from both a canon standpoint and a gameplay standpoint.

    ....

    Yes, alot of the Federation early content is wrapped around Klingons as enemies. So, Cryptic would need to go in and change that. Perhaps the Gorn and Orions, unhappy about the repaired relations between the Empire and the Federation, become the primary low level antagonists.

    Not necessarily. The later episodes, or the diplomatic episodes for that matter, could result in some kind of peace treaty. Daniels, in Enterprise, says that at some point the Klingons join the Federation. So obviously this war ends at some point with the Federation being the ultimate victor. I don't see any reason to end the war now, that would defeat the purpose of the game. But I would certainly like to see them lay the seeds for this war to come to its inevitable conclusion at some point post-STO.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    NeoNoir wrote: »
    Gotta say, though I think Klingons are lame, the idea that they're too stupid to do their own research and have to salvage technology, or outright steal it, is even more lame.

    It has nothing to do with stupidity. It has everything to do with the fact that Klingon culture, like several Earth cultures, regards defeating an enemy, especially a superior enemy, and taking his strength for yourself, as one of the greatest shows of prowess.

    Just wait until my Lieutenant General gets his hands on that 'Genesis Torpedo'.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yet is the content is equalized to be the ame for Klingon and Federation Factions, wont you lose that unique difference?

    Equal and the Same are tow different things.

    1+3=2+2

    They are equal, but not the same.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Pyryck wrote:
    No single faction should ever have content to equal the Feds. It just wouldn't be representative of our experiences with the ST IP so far.

    So basicly what your saying is if I want to play Klingon I should take it up the a$$ because I would rather play something other than the Federation? Is there some point to where one persons 15 bucks a month entitles them to more content than the others 15 buck? Its a game not the show, there are always more than ONE side to any story.

    For the most part I never LIKED the Federation, they just were not that intresting. Klingons on the other had alot of depth to them. There is a damn good reason why there was actually a Klingon language developed by the shows fan base, because they were that intesting.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I should'a taken that left turn at Albaquerque.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Yet is the content is equalized to be the ame for Klingon and Federation Factions, wont you lose that unique difference?

    Are you really saying the "Unique difference" is the Klingons have less content? That is a horrible difference.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    If Klingons wanted to play Federation, they'd play Federation. Well, in reality, we all have Fed alts, but you get my meaning. We prefer the Klingon faction because it offers something different, and something that we prefer to the Federation style play.

    What differences do you feel Klingon Play currently offers compared to Federation Play?
    LMAO. Did you really just say that? The current content disparity between factions is not a "unique difference", it is a pathetic difference. What SHOULD be the unique difference between the factions in an MMO is their story; what makes them who they are and what they are fighting for.

    I do not mean to say that content disparity is a "unique difference" in Klingon Play. I am all for more Klingon Content despite having little personal interest in playing a PvP Focused Faction. I was suggesting a way to share content by merging the factions in STO. Strange how suggesting cooperation gets people so negative and upset.
    Equal and the Same are tow different things.

    1+3=2+2

    They are equal, but not the same.
    Martok42 wrote: »
    Are you really saying the "Unique difference" is the Klingons have less content? That is a horrible difference.

    I was not saying they were equal in content. I don't even know why they must be equal in content. If you make things too equal between factions, you may make them the same. I thought many Klingon Players wanted their faction categorically different.

    I think Star Trek is about The Federation primarily. I think that there is a reason we have never seen a Klingon Series. I think they just aren't compelling enough to interest enough ST Fans. They are an interesting species, but they are not the most important species in the ST IP. I wish people would stop acting like they are.

    Why does everyone act like Klingon Content is more important than Federation Content? How much Content will be enough to call things even? Why is it so hard to realize that Klingon Play is an additional but not necessarily equal faction to chose to play in STO right now? Is it not enough that Cryptic is working on more Klingon Content?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    What differences do you feel Klingon Play currently offers compared to Federation Play?



    I do not mean to say that content disparity is a "unique difference" in Klingon Play. I am all for more Klingon Content despite having little personal interest in playing a PvP Focused Faction. I was suggesting a way to share content by merging the factions in STO. Strange how suggesting cooperation gets people so negative and upset.





    I was not saying they were equal in content. I don't even know why they must be equal in content. If you make things too equal between factions, you may make them the same. I thought many Klingon Players wanted their faction categorically different.

    I think Star Trek is about The Federation primarily. I think that there is a reason we have never seen a Klingon Series. I think they just aren't compelling enough to interest enough ST Fans. They are an interesting species, but they are not the most important species in the ST IP. I wish people would stop acting like they are.

    Why does everyone act like Klingon Content is more important than Federation Content? How much Content will be enough to call things even? Why is it so hard to realize that Klingon Play is an additional but not necessarily equal faction to chose to play in STO right now? Is it not enough that Cryptic is working on more Klingon Content?

    There wasn't a Klingon series because Star Trek is supposed to be a commentary on the Human spirit and adventure

    TOS- Man's exploration in the Galaxy

    TNG- Continuation of that exploration

    DS9- Man's life aboard a space station coping with the same problems over and over again and dealing with the effects of his actions

    VOY- Man's voyage to get home

    ENT- trying to get back to man's exploration


    But that isn't what this game is about. I want Klingons to be equal, but different. A one faction game is boring. I wouldn't even have a problem with Klingons being PVP centric, but there is no incentive to play PVP as a Klingon because of the pathetic amount of XP given. So they need to bolster content.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I was not saying they were equal in content. I don't even know why they must be equal in content. If you make things too equal between factions, you may make them the same. I thought many Klingon Players wanted their faction categorically different.

    I think Star Trek is about The Federation primarily. I think that there is a reason we have never seen a Klingon Series. I think they just aren't compelling enough to interest enough ST Fans. They are an interesting species, but they are not the most important species in the ST IP. I wish people would stop acting like they are.

    Why does everyone act like Klingon Content is more important than Federation Content? How much Content will be enough to call things even? Why is it so hard to realize that Klingon Play is an additional but not necessarily equal faction to chose to play in STO right now? Is it not enough that Cryptic is working on more Klingon Content?

    Yes we want them to be different, but we don't want the difference to be one side has more stuff to do. That doesn't even make sense! We them Equal but opposite.


    Can we just agree that is a horrific suggestion and stop arguing about it?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Let the war be ongoing but give the fed and klings in gamma orionis an alliance without acknolagement from the goverments. It would be great to fight along side klingon battleships against the terrible menace of our Time Borg and Undine... and maybe sometime the Iconians invading?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I have been thinking on the Klingon Players desire to have equal content to the Federation Players. Perhaps we could solve this dilemma by merging the factions as Allies? The impending Iconian Invasion would be a marvelous pretext for this. Let the enemy be NPC's. Let PvP be war games and give them good rewards for training for war. Let the Klingons take out their war notions on holographic foes like Janeway suggested to the Hirogen. Your thoughts folks?

    I'm one of the few you love this idea. Cryptic is too short of resources too truely waste them on more then one Faction. And sooner or later the Fed/Kling war is going to have to end, or start to seem really reallly stupid. No one says the Govs have too love each other (maybe have some scheduled PVP battles to simulate this), some planets/space stations might have race restrictions, certain areas of space would be dangerous to some ships (depends on gov) and missions can reflect various racial differences as well. Hell they could allow for new wars in the future with other races, and mix and match alliances as the "story" of the game progresses.

    This is just the tip of the ideas that come to mind with this. I could list dozens of incredible gaming opportunities with this, but alas...I fear most will want thier old WoW style bland Factions, and thus all will suffer for thier dull greed. ug...:(
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    What differences do you feel Klingon Play currently offers compared to Federation Play?

    You really answered this yourself in your next comment, when you said you had no interest in playing Klingon because you aren't interested in a PVP focused faction. Admittedly, there are currently problems with PVP queues that hopefully the forthcoming revamp will fix. Also, PVP at max level needs to be expanded with open PVP sectors. But even the PVE content that there is on Klingon side is still aimed at the same thing, you, by way of your character, testing your strength and skill against that of others in an attempt to prove yours to be superior.

    So, the places that Klingon content still needs work are the above mentioned PVP fixes and expansions, incorporating a form of crafting, as mentioned in the recent Ask Cryptic, that is still Klingon, and expanding mission options in exploration sectors (which may easily accompany an overall Exploration revamp), possibly to include Klingon (read: Gunboat) Diplomacy missions.

    If Cryptic accomplishes those things in the next couple of seasons, which is pretty doable based on what they've said they're working on, I as a Klingon character will consider the Klingon faction to be complete enough for them to go start working on Romulans. I don't need the exact same number of story episodes that are Klingon specific, at least not with the weekly missions options that will be available.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Th devs could just borrow some appropriate missions from the Federation side - instead of retconning all the old missions and deleting content.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Wordun wrote:
    IAnd sooner or later the Fed/Kling war is going to have to end, or start to seem really reallly stupid.

    The Klingon/Federation war officially began seeming stupid at "The Cure."

    Why yes, I did invade an assimilated planet, free an entire Klingon fleet (including my own reoccurring foe), solo an 18 foot tall Borg monster with my bat'leth, join them in battle against an entire Borg armada, and hand them the information to make a new nanite counteragent.

    What's that? Klingons are about honor, when an enemy displays enough honor and valor, they make peace, like with the Enterprise-C? And we have far more important things to worry about, like the friggin' Borg?

    No! Klingons are now about "pew pew I pwnz j00 n00b brb n33d new kaybord,I dun droolded all over mine n teh keys r stiky lol"
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Lysander_X wrote: »
    The Klingon/Federation war officially began seeming stupid at "The Cure."

    Why yes, I did invade an assimilated planet, free an entire Klingon fleet (including my own reoccurring foe), solo an 18 foot tall Borg monster with my bat'leth, join them in battle against an entire Borg armada, and hand them the information to make a new nanite counteragent.

    What's that? Klingons are about honor, when an enemy displays enough honor and valor, they make peace, like with the Enterprise-C? And we have far more important things to worry about, like the friggin' Borg?

    No! Klingons are now about "pew pew I pwnz j00 n00b brb n33d new kaybord,I dun droolded all over mine n teh keys r stiky lol"

    The reason the Klingons were at war with Starfleet in the TOS era, through to the Khitomer Accords after the Enterprise-C, was because of a botched first contact.

    The reason the Klingons are at war with the UFP currently is because they are convinced that high ranking members of the Federation Admiralty board have been replaced by Undine impostors. And guess what? We learn in the game that they're right. Individual Klingons are perfectly capable of working with individual Starfleet Officers against a common enemy, and trust can be built there, at the level of the soldiery, but the Klingon High Council can't trust the UFP government, or the Starfleet Admiralty, until they've been purged of shapeshifters.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    I do not want to be allies with the *spits on the ground* ....... Federation.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Less talk of peace between Feds and Klinks and MOAR PHASORZ..!
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    The reason the Klingons are at war with the UFP currently is because they are convinced that high ranking members of the Federation Admiralty board have been replaced by Undine impostors. And guess what? We learn in the game that they're right.

    And by becoming backstabbing, timeline wrecking, slaving, kidnapping, civilian-targeting, pirating, Planet Killer-using honorless thugs who need to be rescued from the Borg by Starfleet on the handful of occasions when Starfleet isn't uncovering the Undine without their help, they are playing right into the hands of the Iconians.
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