Yeah, me too. Classical Liberalism and Modern Liberalism are two very different animals.
The terminology comes from the 18th and 19th centuries when political science was first emerging as a seriously studied field. While that time and the issues the three groups argued over are past, the basic concepts and underlying motivations of the three remain valid today.
The Federation falls into a very Liberal-Socialist organization.
I shudder to think that in the Mirror Universe, Sarah would not only have become Empress, but would have killed John McCain and made sense in the process.
If capitalists were in charge instead of socialists...
Technology and science advances faster in a capitalist society (see USA versus USSR) so...
Phasers are obsolete, replaced by Ultralasers, which are way more powerful then phasers. So powerful Borg Cubes are destroyed in one shot.
The remaining Klingons are moved onto reservations.
Medical science is further ahead. The rich have new, genetically engineered flawless bodies made every two years. The poor have to 'make do' with the wonder drugs and medical technologies that allow you to live 200 years. Darn.
The transwarp network is completed, allowing near instantaneous travel to anywhere in the galaxy.
We bring dinosaurs back for fun. Come to the amusement park kiddies and stay away from the raptor pen.
Tollbooth at the Bajoran Wormhole.
Data gets lured away from Starfleet to run a multiplanetary corporation.
Twaddle.
If capitalists were in charge the federation would never have existed.
Its hard to fit the Federation into that dirty little box, in the future, they evolved past it. So maybe it would be a conservative nightmare had by oh say Will Riker. I mean he saw enough future possibilities in that one episode( you know where all the Enterprises kept appearing from future times...) ONE of them HAD to be conservative.:D
Yeah, me too. Classical Liberalism and Modern Liberalism are two very different animals.
The terminology comes from the 18th and 19th centuries when political science was first emerging as a seriously studied field. While that time and the issues the three groups argued over are past, the basic concepts and underlying motivations of the three remain valid today.
The Federation falls into a very Liberal-Socialist organization.
Its hard to fit the Federation into that dirty little box, in the future, they evolved past it. So maybe it would be a conservative nightmare had by oh say Will Riker. I mean he saw enough future possibilities in that one episode( you know where all the Enterprises kept appearing from future times...) ONE of them HAD to be conservative.:D
Dirty little box, eh?
One major point Raven was making with her post was to show that how we classify things today, especially liberal or conservative, are not anything like what they use to be when these terms were first coined for political ideologies. A lot of the reason why this is now is because during the '60s, there was a fundamental shift in ideology and the major parties in the US, so it really twisted around what things were. Today, we are so confused that we just throw names at things and try to make them stick.
A lot of the reason why this is now is because during the '60s, there was a fundamental shift in ideology and the major parties in the US, so it really twisted around what things were. Today, we are so confused that we just throw names at things and try to make them stick.
Actually you need to go back another 70 years further to find the genesis of todays political ideologies.
Politicians have been trying to save us from ourselves for a long, long time
Actually you need to go back another 70 years further to find the genesis of todays political ideologies.
Politicians have been trying to save us from ourselves for a long, long time
Oh, I wasn't speaking of the genesis of today's political ideals, just the shift that occured with the Republican and Democratic parties. How, until Civil Rights acts were passed, the Democrats was mainly the southern party, and the Republicans were the northern party. Then, for some wierd reason, the parties swapped places, but took each other's ideologies. Now, Republicans are more southern, and Democrats are more northern.
Actually you need to go back another 70 years further to find the genesis of todays political ideologies.
Politicians have been trying to save us from ourselves for a long, long time
Go back earlier.
The terms Liberal and Conservative really first came into use in the period of the French Revolution (late 18th and early 19th centuries), along with the concepts of Left and Right. Before then there were various Liberal and Conservative ideologies arising, but the French Revolution was the catalyst that codified the two concepts.
Socialism as a unified ideology coalesced more towards the mid 19th century with the revolutions of 1848 serving as a major unifying force.
So far, you are all getting better grades than my honors American Government class is getting on their finals.
By the way. I'm what is called an educated centrist. The bane of all politics.
I agree that TOS was much more capitalist in nature than Next Gen. It is still interesting that of all the capitalist races that seem to be out there, Harry Mudd represents the best of what we have. He really seemed to give a TRIBBLE about what he sold at times.
The Orion Syundicate probably represents the closest things to pure capitalists as we understand them. The Ferengi were meant to represent what is comical about buig business pursuit of profit. Motivated purely by Adam Smith's self interest, they are small and petty with big ears to hear a deal. But their ideal has little to do with work, only with scheming.
The problem and the fallacy of everything beyond TOS, is that regardless of how limitless your resources may appear to be they do in fact have limits. Without some means to efficiently manage resources, such as capitalism, life human or otherwise will expand unabated until it somewhat exceeds whatever resources are available.
Comments
The terminology comes from the 18th and 19th centuries when political science was first emerging as a seriously studied field. While that time and the issues the three groups argued over are past, the basic concepts and underlying motivations of the three remain valid today.
The Federation falls into a very Liberal-Socialist organization.
...and I thought Empress Sato was terrifying...
Twaddle.
If capitalists were in charge the federation would never have existed.
Yea, so does the...er..wait...won't go there.
Dirty little box, eh?
One major point Raven was making with her post was to show that how we classify things today, especially liberal or conservative, are not anything like what they use to be when these terms were first coined for political ideologies. A lot of the reason why this is now is because during the '60s, there was a fundamental shift in ideology and the major parties in the US, so it really twisted around what things were. Today, we are so confused that we just throw names at things and try to make them stick.
I guess that is why I will always be a TOS fan, and tolerate the TRIBBLE that followed.
Yep, I live by the mantra "I come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill"
Actually you need to go back another 70 years further to find the genesis of todays political ideologies.
Politicians have been trying to save us from ourselves for a long, long time
Oh, I wasn't speaking of the genesis of today's political ideals, just the shift that occured with the Republican and Democratic parties. How, until Civil Rights acts were passed, the Democrats was mainly the southern party, and the Republicans were the northern party. Then, for some wierd reason, the parties swapped places, but took each other's ideologies. Now, Republicans are more southern, and Democrats are more northern.
very true, because we still get screwed in the end.
Go back earlier.
The terms Liberal and Conservative really first came into use in the period of the French Revolution (late 18th and early 19th centuries), along with the concepts of Left and Right. Before then there were various Liberal and Conservative ideologies arising, but the French Revolution was the catalyst that codified the two concepts.
Socialism as a unified ideology coalesced more towards the mid 19th century with the revolutions of 1848 serving as a major unifying force.
I was speaking more in terms of when progressivism began driving the ideology of politics.
While enlightenment may be a good thing, varying opinions on how it is implimented are what have driven us apart.
hehe ...he's right ye know
By the way. I'm what is called an educated centrist. The bane of all politics.
I agree that TOS was much more capitalist in nature than Next Gen. It is still interesting that of all the capitalist races that seem to be out there, Harry Mudd represents the best of what we have. He really seemed to give a TRIBBLE about what he sold at times.
The Orion Syundicate probably represents the closest things to pure capitalists as we understand them. The Ferengi were meant to represent what is comical about buig business pursuit of profit. Motivated purely by Adam Smith's self interest, they are small and petty with big ears to hear a deal. But their ideal has little to do with work, only with scheming.
The space mafia has nothing to do with capitalism. They commit crimes in the name of easier living.