Don't give up hope because of a poll. I'm of the mind that we eventually want to do all of them and will do so in time. There's plenty of spoonhead lovers on the team and it will be hard to keep them from wanting to make this happen.
Just so we're clear on this subject, you do understand that the current poll does NOT mean that Borg is the most desired faction after Romulans, correct? Because if Romulans were removed from that poll, all the people who voted for them would be voting for other factions, which would completely change the results of the poll. When you decide you are ready to start moving forward on a fourth faction, a completely new poll will be needed to determine what the most players want as the 4th faction.
i agree, but its just a concept. I couldn't decide how we could have a personal avatar and yet be able to name them. I wouldn't say in any way independant. They would function as like a sub processor. or whatever the "such-and-such of Borg" are.
There is no need for our idetifying avatar to be humanoid, ambulatory or personafied in anyway. If we are the Vinculum, then we are the controlling, centralized, agent for the group. The Vinculum would be named after its placement in the larger network. Or it cam be a serial number or ship number, etc, etc.
The drones could be automatically named X of Y based on the ship's/Vinculum identification in the larger network. So a drone might be 3 of 11(drone ID) Teritiary Adjunct of (ship/Vinculum ID) Unimatrix 3 (name of the regional main hub governing operations for the area). We could even make it so there are multiple ships comprising an Adjunct. So the ship/Vinculum ID might be ship 237 and the Adjunct would then be comprised of a group of shps instead one.
Your avatar's/ship/Vinculum name would then be "Ship 237, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 3"...or if its a single ship adjunct, it would just be "Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 3"
So you might get a message during a ground missions that, "Drone 3 of 11 of ship 237, Tertiary Adunct of Unmatrix 3 has jus went off line" So you then you might beam down Drone 5 of 11.
Just to make it more complex, it might be possible for the ship to have multiple Adjuncts also. Its just the compartmentalization of the Collective, which is capable and does multi-task its various tasks and operations autonomously.
There is no need for our idetifying avatar to be humanoid, ambulatory or personafied in anyway. If we are the Vinculum, then we are the controlling, centralized, agent for the group. The Vinculum would be named after its placement in the larger network. Or it cam be a serial number or ship number, etc, etc.
The drones could be automatically named X of Y based on the ship's/Vinculum identification in the larger network. So a drone might be 3 of 11(drone ID) Teritiary Adjunct of (ship/Vinculum ID) Unimatrix 3 (name of the regional main hub governing operations for the area). We could even make it so there are multiple ships comprising an Adjunct. So the ship/Vinculum ID might be ship 237 and the Adjunct would then be comprised of a group of shps instead one.
Your avatar's/ship/Vinculum name would then be "Ship 237, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 3"...or if its a single ship adjunct, it would just be "Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 3"
So you might get a message during a ground missions that, "Drone 3 of 11 of ship 237, Tertiary Adunct of Unmatrix 3 has jus went off line" So you then you might beam down Drone 5 of 11.
Just to make it more complex, it might be possible for the ship to have multiple Adjuncts also. Its just the compartmentalization of the Collective, which is capable and does multi-task its various tasks and operations autonomously.
I wouldn't cancel my sub over this, I would simply not play as Borg or Undine. I imagine its incredibly boring and would make the KDF missions a la "defeat 8 DSEs with each 10 mobs" look exciting. If people wanna play that, let them. Just keep them away from me.
I would also like to see other factions long before Borg or Undine; Cardassians, Ferengi Alliance, Dominion, a Delta Quadrant faction with species like Kazon, Vidiians, Hirogen... And I agree that a game needs a big, faceless, common enemy. If Borg or Undine, or in a worst case both, were player factions, there would be no alternative - unless the Q Continuum declares war on everyone, and that would be against canon.
Don't give up hope because of a poll. I'm of the mind that we eventually want to do all of them and will do so in time. There's plenty of spoonhead lovers on the team and it will be hard to keep them from wanting to make this happen.
I demand to know how many undine fans/supporters/people i can bribe ?!
There's no reasonable way the Borg Collective can work as a playable faction. The only people pushing for this are annoying min-maxers who think being a Borg will up their power more than their idiotic stat-obsessed Alien build currently does. The Borg are entirely different from every other empire in Trekdom. Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (even the Horta, probably) are all societies of INDIVIDUALS, so it makes sense that we could play as one of them, but the very nature of the Borg means that they couldn't be a playable faction of individual characters run by individual players. It's a concept as laughable as it is ignorant.
A Borg faction would only work if, after you selected your Borg toon and pressed the Play button, from that moment on you had no control over the character whatsoever and just watched them wander around following the orders of the Collective.
There's no reasonable way the Borg Collective can work as a playable faction. The only people pushing for this are annoying min-maxers who think being a Borg will up their power more than their idiotic stat-obsessed Alien build currently does. The Borg are entirely different from every other empire in Trekdom. Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (even the Horta, probably) are all societies of INDIVIDUALS, so it makes sense that we could play as one of them, but the very nature of the Borg means that they couldn't be a playable faction of individual characters run by individual players. It's a concept as laughable as it is ignorant.
A Borg faction would only work if, after you selected your Borg toon and pressed the Play button, from that moment on you had no control over the character whatsoever and just watched them wander around following the orders of the Collective.
"I want playable Vorta. I don't care if I'm the only one!"
all the vorta do is listen and worship the changlings.. so i demands you get me some umpa lumpas!
There's no reasonable way the Borg Collective can work as a playable faction. The only people pushing for this are annoying min-maxers who think being a Borg will up their power more than their idiotic stat-obsessed Alien build currently does. The Borg are entirely different from every other empire in Trekdom. Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians (even the Horta, probably) are all societies of INDIVIDUALS, so it makes sense that we could play as one of them, but the very nature of the Borg means that they couldn't be a playable faction of individual characters run by individual players. It's a concept as laughable as it is ignorant.
A Borg faction would only work if, after you selected your Borg toon and pressed the Play button, from that moment on you had no control over the character whatsoever and just watched them wander around following the orders of the Collective.
A borg faction could work. Some of you people are blowing the situation way out of proportion.
Back when it was first going to be implemented, people cried and whined that the Monster Play faction in LOTRO could never work because you'd be cannon fodder and unidentifiable as a major "hero" of the faction, and look how that turned out.
It's barely gotten any updates since it was first implemented, and still has huge numbers of people on most servers taking time out of their heroic characters to play as random Orc cannon fodder. Some people will even go so far as to tell you that the MPVP aspect of the game is the best part of it.
Implementing a mechanic/race/faction/whatever in an innovative way can go a long way toward's making something work in-game and making it fun.
If the Borg are a playable faction, it will likely be a splinter group from the borg, who are severed from the collective. Like Hugh from TOS, for example.
Just a little side note but if we introduce too many factions doesn't that fragment the user base too much from playing together? I know it gets pretty barren on the Klink side for STFs.
Just a little side note but if we introduce too many factions doesn't that fragment the user base too much from playing together? I know it gets pretty barren on the Klink side for STFs.
I think the reason the Klingons don't have much in the way of population is because aside from PVP and exploration missions, there really isn't much to do.
The problem is exacerbated when you're trying to level up, since both of those things, while fun in small amounts, get incredibly repetitious and boring in larger amounts, causing people to go Federation, or to just unsubscribe to alleviate the boredom.
It doesn't help that most PVP is heavily instanced into small group versus group combat, and that a pre-made can steamroll most random groups, meaning that PVP is a bit of a crapshoot at higher levels for Klingons if you aren't in an extremely active guild.
i think regardless of canon the poll speaks for itself, cryptic will go where the majority of fans want them to. I'm a huge cardassian fan and don't like the idea of a borg faction either but those that want borg outnumber my cardie freinds almost two to one and number only just under cardies and dominion combined.
As much as it pains me to say this I think at this point we have to start looking at how they'll be implemented, not if.
The thing the poll can't take into account is what someone's second favorite is. I know that, though I personally voted for Romulans to be next, I would like Cardassians to be the 4th faction added. I'm sure there are many others who feel this way, too, so just because they won't be the *next* one doesn't mean they won't be in at all.
If the Borg are a playable faction, it will likely be a splinter group from the borg, who are severed from the collective. Like Hugh from TOS, for example.
It's barely gotten any updates since it was first implemented, and still has huge numbers of people on most servers taking time out of their heroic characters to play as random Orc cannon fodder. Some people will even go so far as to tell you that the MPVP aspect of the game is the best part of it.
Implementing a mechanic/race/faction/whatever in an innovative way can go a long way toward's making something work in-game and making it fun.
Borg Hunt would be a lot fun, interesting and challeneging if I could roam around it in a Sphere or Spherical Probe.
I think playable borg is a silly idea too, it doesnt make much sense in a MMO environment, not to mention they'll have to gimp borg players like crazy so might not even be fun. Adaptive shields? Gone. Rapid Regenerative hull? Gone. Assimilation? Oh, definatly gone. Why all those things would have to be gone? because you'd have PvPers whining their eyes out about how overpowered the Borg faction is and the hardcore gamers whining how easy it is to be a borg.
Even if Cryptic didnt gimp the heck out of borg and made them an elite class, you'd still have whining from the have nots ala the Jedi Fiasco in the old SWG.
Borg would be fun to Ground PvP against, you'll be able to kite them all day since they would be stuck in zombie walk mode all the time.
Naw...notice how they transport near you to close the gap when you try and kite in PvE...imagine if that becomes a cool-down feature for PC Borg. We'd be able to utilize that skill so much better with a pre-emptive flanking/pincer maneuver to cut you off and snap the trap closed...muhahahaha!
I think playable borg is a silly idea too, it doesnt make much sense in a MMO environment, not to mention they'll have to gimp borg players like crazy so might not even be fun. Adaptive shields? Gone. Rapid Regenerative hull? Gone. Assimilation? Oh, definatly gone. Why all those things would have to be gone? because you'd have PvPers whining their eyes out about how overpowered the Borg faction is and the hardcore gamers whining how easy it is to be a borg.
Even if Cryptic didnt gimp the heck out of borg and made them an elite class, you'd still have whining from the have nots ala the Jedi Fiasco in the old SWG.
The Borg is already de-fanged in game. Canon shows the Borg did field vessels that operated with parity with Alpha/Beta starships. So PC Borg would be operating lesse variants of BOrg ships...like the "Shoebox" Borg Probe vessel. It was 300m and on par with an Interpid class starship. So we wouldnt be gimped, just not given access to the uber class Borg ships.
The effectivness of the adaptability of the Borg appears to scaled to the power available to the unit itself. Smaller units with less power available to be applied to adapions seem to be less capable of over-powering threats.
So we could still have adaptability...basically increased resists and perhaps smaller cool downs for similar buffs and de-buffs already used in game to simulate "adaption". But if we are limited to smaller/lesser Borg variants of ships, we wouldnt possess the shear abundance of power to apply to defense and weapons to overwhelm you meatbags in PvP.
Wheres the fun in being a borg if all the good stuff is taken away, if people cant fly Cubes and theres no assimilating npcs and players (albiet temporarily)? In other words, if you take away all the stuff that makes Borg a Borg, and call them a weaker mostly cut off from the collective faction, they just become robot versions of the other races.
Wheres the fun in being a borg if all the good stuff is taken away, if people cant fly Cubes and theres no assimilating npcs and players (albiet temporarily)? In other words, if you take away all the stuff that makes Borg a Borg, and call them a weaker mostly cut off from the collective faction, they just become robot versions of the other races.
Whats the point in playing Feds if you cant Command Starbases? Simply put there is more to both than the biggest and baddest unit they can field. The Borg, its fleet and the experiences to be had as a Borg unit is more than just the juggernaut of the fleet we see in the Cube.
Scout vessels are not cut-off from the Collective, but intergral parts of the Collective's fleet composition. PC Borg would not have to be an off-shoot, but instead, be complimentary to the larger and stronger NPC Borg units.
So instead of Cubes, we can have probes and other scout vessels...an possibly have access to the Sphere as a T5 vessel.
And for the love of the Collective...they arent robots!
i have to say to you cocoa, you by far have the best thoughts and replies in this thread.
i wanted borg and roms for factions (picked roms mainly for immediate playability and story line as well as allowing dev time to impliment a good borg class) but since reading your ideas, i want borg now!
i really like the idea of not being a "huamoid(ish) toon to play, but rather the central hub to the ship...
The main problem I see with the Borg as a faction is that it will take forEEEEver for you to plod on the ground from one end of a mission to the next, since they move so damn slow.
I can see how a Borg "team" could work. We'd all be "1 of" 5, 6, 7 - whatevah, and the Queen is essentially the Admiral Quinn of your faction. I see no break in canon here. In addition, there are a variety of different vessels they use (TV, movies, other games) plus high level player cubes could always be a little smaller. That said, when it all comes down to who's gonna be the next playable faction...
...hands down, I want the Romulans, and IMO, they are the best choice for what's next to come. They have a more in depth history and story to explore, there are more aspects of unpredictability within their group since their Empire is somewhat fractured, plus there's more opportunity to offer a variety of personalities to be encountered in your adventures since they're all individuals with their own agendas to fullfil.
The true main problems I see with adding Borg as playable is they're exactly the opposite of the Romulans:
The Borg want to assimilate us.
The Queen is your leader and, most likely, the only person you will ever interact with within your faction.
Go assimilate or eliminate your enemies.
There is no deviation from any the above. -
Anyone else notice Borg have Super Jump of DOOOOOM in game? thats how they traverse huge distances, lol. I think the Dev's should tap cocoa-jin (and me :-D ) for ideas on the Borg faction if they choose to make it.
If people really want to have more diversity in PC Borg ships, we could be allowed(as an option, an alternative) to assimilate NPC vessels. With the idea of slowly morphing it into a standard Borg hull variant. So one casn stick with their standard hulls and slowly morph them to the next tier...or assimilate an alien hull and morph it toward the next hull.
"But wait...", you say, "...every noob Borg would try and assimilate a Typhoon or Jupitter class vessel from day one." Not if you tie ship operational efficiency and effectiveness to player level.
One would assume that operating such a large ship would also require substantial drones. It also takes a while for small Borg compliments(read low level player) and nano-probes to fully assimilate a vessel into a well tuned combat vessel(as seen on Enterprise...I forgot the episode name).
So, the idea is to make larger ships "too much" for your drone compliment. Easy to do if you assume an entry level Borg player would be flying a 5-man Borg cube...5 drones might be able to get a Jupiter Class ship under their control...but they couldnt keep it together as it takes damage.
The devs could also limit all Borg annexing of alien vessels to just non-combat vessels...we could assume combat vessels would "go down fighting" and self-destruct before giving themselves and their ship to the Borg.
Or limiting the annexing of combat ships to those with rough parity to the Borg player's level...once again, we can assume larger ships would have enough resources to hold a lesser Borg vessel until they could inititate a self-destruct or would stubbornely go down fighting, requiring the Borg vessel destroy the higher tier ship. Equal and lesser targets would be more likly to be over-powered and assimilated instead fo destroyed.
In the end, Borg Player ship progression would result in the morphing and "growing" of the current hull into the next standard Borg hull variant up the tier tree. The morphing feature for ship progression would then mean a player's ship would have some level of differintiation...not really customization, but still "character" as you progress. With the most significant means of differintiation being through which alien ships you choose to annex.
Now, ideally, there should be some draw backs to annexing alien hulls. One could be a prolonged period of reduced effectiviness as you committ resources to making/morphing the alien ship into a "suitable" vessel for Borg operations. Annexing a ship thats too large would keep you a constant disadvanatge until you can reach the required level and drone numbers to operate it effectivly, but get a ship too small and perhaps you lose drones, etc, etc.
But at the same time, annexing certain ships might allow you to benefit from some of its unique attributes...like increased maeuverability from small light vessels, slightly improved power plant production from annexing a cruiser, improved adaption and resist atributes by annexinga science vessel, etc, etc.
Lastly, one could "customize" their drone compliment by assimilating different races to utilize certain racial perks when they are drones.
Comments
Just so we're clear on this subject, you do understand that the current poll does NOT mean that Borg is the most desired faction after Romulans, correct? Because if Romulans were removed from that poll, all the people who voted for them would be voting for other factions, which would completely change the results of the poll. When you decide you are ready to start moving forward on a fourth faction, a completely new poll will be needed to determine what the most players want as the 4th faction.
There is no need for our idetifying avatar to be humanoid, ambulatory or personafied in anyway. If we are the Vinculum, then we are the controlling, centralized, agent for the group. The Vinculum would be named after its placement in the larger network. Or it cam be a serial number or ship number, etc, etc.
The drones could be automatically named X of Y based on the ship's/Vinculum identification in the larger network. So a drone might be 3 of 11(drone ID) Teritiary Adjunct of (ship/Vinculum ID) Unimatrix 3 (name of the regional main hub governing operations for the area). We could even make it so there are multiple ships comprising an Adjunct. So the ship/Vinculum ID might be ship 237 and the Adjunct would then be comprised of a group of shps instead one.
Your avatar's/ship/Vinculum name would then be "Ship 237, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 3"...or if its a single ship adjunct, it would just be "Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 3"
So you might get a message during a ground missions that, "Drone 3 of 11 of ship 237, Tertiary Adunct of Unmatrix 3 has jus went off line" So you then you might beam down Drone 5 of 11.
Just to make it more complex, it might be possible for the ship to have multiple Adjuncts also. Its just the compartmentalization of the Collective, which is capable and does multi-task its various tasks and operations autonomously.
aye, that could work.
I would also like to see other factions long before Borg or Undine; Cardassians, Ferengi Alliance, Dominion, a Delta Quadrant faction with species like Kazon, Vidiians, Hirogen... And I agree that a game needs a big, faceless, common enemy. If Borg or Undine, or in a worst case both, were player factions, there would be no alternative - unless the Q Continuum declares war on everyone, and that would be against canon.
I demand to know how many undine fans/supporters/people i can bribe ?!
answer!!!! :P
A Borg faction would only work if, after you selected your Borg toon and pressed the Play button, from that moment on you had no control over the character whatsoever and just watched them wander around following the orders of the Collective.
"I want playable Vorta. I don't care if I'm the only one!"
all the vorta do is listen and worship the changlings.. so i demands you get me some umpa lumpas!
Incorrect.
Back when it was first going to be implemented, people cried and whined that the Monster Play faction in LOTRO could never work because you'd be cannon fodder and unidentifiable as a major "hero" of the faction, and look how that turned out.
It's barely gotten any updates since it was first implemented, and still has huge numbers of people on most servers taking time out of their heroic characters to play as random Orc cannon fodder. Some people will even go so far as to tell you that the MPVP aspect of the game is the best part of it.
Implementing a mechanic/race/faction/whatever in an innovative way can go a long way toward's making something work in-game and making it fun.
I think the reason the Klingons don't have much in the way of population is because aside from PVP and exploration missions, there really isn't much to do.
The problem is exacerbated when you're trying to level up, since both of those things, while fun in small amounts, get incredibly repetitious and boring in larger amounts, causing people to go Federation, or to just unsubscribe to alleviate the boredom.
It doesn't help that most PVP is heavily instanced into small group versus group combat, and that a pre-made can steamroll most random groups, meaning that PVP is a bit of a crapshoot at higher levels for Klingons if you aren't in an extremely active guild.
Boooo!! No b@stardized Borg...please!
Borg Hunt would be a lot fun, interesting and challeneging if I could roam around it in a Sphere or Spherical Probe.
and get pew pew pewd by ma undine
Even if Cryptic didnt gimp the heck out of borg and made them an elite class, you'd still have whining from the have nots ala the Jedi Fiasco in the old SWG.
We aint skerd!
Naw...notice how they transport near you to close the gap when you try and kite in PvE...imagine if that becomes a cool-down feature for PC Borg. We'd be able to utilize that skill so much better with a pre-emptive flanking/pincer maneuver to cut you off and snap the trap closed...muhahahaha!
The Borg is already de-fanged in game. Canon shows the Borg did field vessels that operated with parity with Alpha/Beta starships. So PC Borg would be operating lesse variants of BOrg ships...like the "Shoebox" Borg Probe vessel. It was 300m and on par with an Interpid class starship. So we wouldnt be gimped, just not given access to the uber class Borg ships.
The effectivness of the adaptability of the Borg appears to scaled to the power available to the unit itself. Smaller units with less power available to be applied to adapions seem to be less capable of over-powering threats.
So we could still have adaptability...basically increased resists and perhaps smaller cool downs for similar buffs and de-buffs already used in game to simulate "adaption". But if we are limited to smaller/lesser Borg variants of ships, we wouldnt possess the shear abundance of power to apply to defense and weapons to overwhelm you meatbags in PvP.
Whats the point in playing Feds if you cant Command Starbases? Simply put there is more to both than the biggest and baddest unit they can field. The Borg, its fleet and the experiences to be had as a Borg unit is more than just the juggernaut of the fleet we see in the Cube.
Scout vessels are not cut-off from the Collective, but intergral parts of the Collective's fleet composition. PC Borg would not have to be an off-shoot, but instead, be complimentary to the larger and stronger NPC Borg units.
So instead of Cubes, we can have probes and other scout vessels...an possibly have access to the Sphere as a T5 vessel.
And for the love of the Collective...they arent robots!
i have to say to you cocoa, you by far have the best thoughts and replies in this thread.
i wanted borg and roms for factions (picked roms mainly for immediate playability and story line as well as allowing dev time to impliment a good borg class) but since reading your ideas, i want borg now!
i really like the idea of not being a "huamoid(ish) toon to play, but rather the central hub to the ship...
I can see how a Borg "team" could work. We'd all be "1 of" 5, 6, 7 - whatevah, and the Queen is essentially the Admiral Quinn of your faction. I see no break in canon here. In addition, there are a variety of different vessels they use (TV, movies, other games) plus high level player cubes could always be a little smaller. That said, when it all comes down to who's gonna be the next playable faction...
...hands down, I want the Romulans, and IMO, they are the best choice for what's next to come. They have a more in depth history and story to explore, there are more aspects of unpredictability within their group since their Empire is somewhat fractured, plus there's more opportunity to offer a variety of personalities to be encountered in your adventures since they're all individuals with their own agendas to fullfil.
The true main problems I see with adding Borg as playable is they're exactly the opposite of the Romulans:
The Borg want to assimilate us.
The Queen is your leader and, most likely, the only person you will ever interact with within your faction.
Go assimilate or eliminate your enemies.
There is no deviation from any the above.
-
"But wait...", you say, "...every noob Borg would try and assimilate a Typhoon or Jupitter class vessel from day one." Not if you tie ship operational efficiency and effectiveness to player level.
One would assume that operating such a large ship would also require substantial drones. It also takes a while for small Borg compliments(read low level player) and nano-probes to fully assimilate a vessel into a well tuned combat vessel(as seen on Enterprise...I forgot the episode name).
So, the idea is to make larger ships "too much" for your drone compliment. Easy to do if you assume an entry level Borg player would be flying a 5-man Borg cube...5 drones might be able to get a Jupiter Class ship under their control...but they couldnt keep it together as it takes damage.
The devs could also limit all Borg annexing of alien vessels to just non-combat vessels...we could assume combat vessels would "go down fighting" and self-destruct before giving themselves and their ship to the Borg.
Or limiting the annexing of combat ships to those with rough parity to the Borg player's level...once again, we can assume larger ships would have enough resources to hold a lesser Borg vessel until they could inititate a self-destruct or would stubbornely go down fighting, requiring the Borg vessel destroy the higher tier ship. Equal and lesser targets would be more likly to be over-powered and assimilated instead fo destroyed.
In the end, Borg Player ship progression would result in the morphing and "growing" of the current hull into the next standard Borg hull variant up the tier tree. The morphing feature for ship progression would then mean a player's ship would have some level of differintiation...not really customization, but still "character" as you progress. With the most significant means of differintiation being through which alien ships you choose to annex.
Now, ideally, there should be some draw backs to annexing alien hulls. One could be a prolonged period of reduced effectiviness as you committ resources to making/morphing the alien ship into a "suitable" vessel for Borg operations. Annexing a ship thats too large would keep you a constant disadvanatge until you can reach the required level and drone numbers to operate it effectivly, but get a ship too small and perhaps you lose drones, etc, etc.
But at the same time, annexing certain ships might allow you to benefit from some of its unique attributes...like increased maeuverability from small light vessels, slightly improved power plant production from annexing a cruiser, improved adaption and resist atributes by annexinga science vessel, etc, etc.
Lastly, one could "customize" their drone compliment by assimilating different races to utilize certain racial perks when they are drones.