I would indeed like the community to stop the hate posts..but in order for that to happen ALOT of new information would have to be provided.
You have no idea how much I agree with that, which has been a hope of mine that the STOked team have an emergency video/episode, discussing this. I actually came up with 3 pages of stuff that I felt needed to be talked about over this one issue, that was put under the suggestions box for them to see, complete with links to sources of information.
In the end, it's up to the STOked team what they decide to talk about and when, but hopefully, after this whole uproar in the STO forums, this will be an issue discussed upon in a bit of detail in the next episode. I can't go farther than maybe's and possibles because I'm not in STOked, I'm just a Fleetie from Jupiter Force.
You have no idea how much I agree with that, which has been a hope of mine that the STOked team have an emergency video/episode, discussing this. I actually came up with 3 pages of stuff that I felt needed to be talked about over this one issue, that was put under the suggestions box for them to see, complete with links to sources of information.
In the end, it's up to the STOked team what they decide to talk about and when, but hopefully, after this whole uproar in the STO forums, this will be an issue discussed upon in a bit of detail in the next episode. I can't go farther than maybe's and possibles because I'm not in STOked, I'm just a Fleetie from Jupiter Force.
And maybe you or someone else in that community could go through and compile all the information in text form for the rest of the forum community. I really do hope this rift in the playerbase can be healed over time.
When brown nosing the publisher is more important than standing up for your fellow players, you are a "fanboi"
There isn't anything wrong with being that. Just admit it, don't lie and say you are anything else.
I have to agree with this and practically everything DearthZero has pointed out. I've checked out a couple of STOked podcasts and I didn't find them worth continuing to keep watch or even listen to. The fact that Cryptic went out of their way to endorse this council and cheerypick from the litter with the biggest brown smudges on their nose (and in some cases, face) really disappoints me.
Oh we have questions. But I can guarantee that I'm no where NEAR as worked up over this as most of the forums vocal posters (like yourself). I'm being COMPLETELY honest when I say that it's all blown out of proportion to a massive extent. This is nothing more or less than a press outreach program - every company does it. And I'm willing to bet that Cryptic is one of the first companies EVER to be castrated over it.
My questions circle around why they chose to announce it before we knew anything about it, why their in-house GMs were not involved in the idea of gathering customer feedback if that's their job, and whether or not they've begun to put steps in place to eliminate future PR bungles of this type.
Valid questions for sure.
I wouldn't worry too much as the "issue" appears to be blowing over anyway.
There's only this thread and the "impeachment" thread still going, both of which have hardly any new names posting in them. Its mostly the same handful of people posting round and round in either of them.
I think the community whilst miffed about the way it was communicated are probably coming to terms with it now.
There is no rampant hatred in the community of STOked that I am aware of (a little of the green-eyed monster from a few people perhaps but thats it) and there is nothing that STOked have to personally answer for is this matter.
In my opinion you guys have always done a good job at entertaining folks and sharing information about the game with the community and that is what you should continue to focus on doing. The absolute worst thing you could do now is start diverting away from the game itself and start dedciating your time in pod casts to being drawn into the politics of this which you are NOT responsible for.
If people want to direct their issues to Cryptic about the handling of this, fine. That is not your job.
There were just as many people who saw no issues with the council as there were who had a problem with it and you should stay focussed on why you were selected (and it was perfectly justified) and keep doing that.
If you use your podcast in a couple of weeks to re-open up the issues and potentially cause more drama, I'll personally avoid the shows as this is not the reason I watch them, and is not an issue that should be taking up time in your shows. Its an issue for here. For Cryptic and Atari and people in this forum to debate if they want to.
I wouldn't worry too much as the "issue" appears to be blowing over anyway.
There's only this thread and the "impeachment" thread still going, both of which have hardly any new names posting in them. Its mostly the same handful of people posting round and round in either of them.
I think the community whilst miffed about the way it was communicated are probably coming to terms with it now.
There is no rampant hatred in the community of STOked that I am aware of (a little of the green-eyed monster from a few people perhaps but thats it) and there is nothing that STOked have to personally answer for is this matter.
In my opinion you guys have always done a good job at entertaining folks and sharing information about the game with the community and that is what you should continue to focus on doing. The absolute worst thing you could do now is start diverting away from the game itself and start dedciating your time in pod casts to being drawn into the politics of this which you are NOT responsible for.
If people want to direct their issues to Cryptic about the handling of this, fine. That is not your job.
There were just as many people who saw no issues with the council as there were who had a problem with it and you should stay focussed on why you were selected (and it was perfectly justified) and keep doing that.
If you use your podcast in a couple of weeks to re-open up the issues and potentially cause more drama, I'll personally avoid the shows as this is not the reason I watch them, and is not an issue that should be taking up time in your shows. Its an issue for here. For Cryptic and Atari and people in this forum to debate if they want to.
Thats just my 2 cents.
So you believe the community as a whole should be ignored..and that they basically aren't worth telling the truth to?
STOked have the responsibility to answer because they have the ability to answer..with such a position comes the responsibility to bring forth the facts of such a position. And I'm not sure if you are aware, but much of the community is still quite furious, they simply have ceased posting because by and large they are being ignored, so the rampant hatred I'm referring to isn't within the STOked community..but within the STO forums themselves.
I would love to agree that there is NO issue or that the issue is indeed dying out, however from everything that has been seen points to the contrary. This is still a very heated issue, just most are becoming irritated with the fact that we have been given NO information...and don't link that FAQ as it is more or less simply an appearance of answers without stating very much in the way of facts.
So you believe the community as a whole should be ignored..and that they basically aren't worth telling the truth to?
STOked have the responsibility to answer because they have the ability to answer..with such a position comes the responsibility to bring forth the facts of such a position. And I'm not sure if you are aware, but much of the community is still quite furious, they simply have ceased posting because by and large they are being ignored, so the rampant hatred I'm referring to isn't within the STOked community..but within the STO forums themselves.
I would love to agree that there is NO issue or that the issue is indeed dying out, however from everything that has been seen points to the contrary. This is still a very heated issue, just most are becoming irritated with the fact that we have been given NO information...and don't link that FAQ as it is more or less simply an appearance of answers without stating very much in the way of facts.
I'm not saying anyone should be ignored. I think the community should seek its answers from Cryptic if they want to. That is not the responsibility of STOked.
And the issue is dying out. Cryptic have explained their intentions and motives behind this and whatever we think about their handling of the situation, this should not divert STOked from what they do.
You may not like it, personally. Thats your right as it is your right to continue to seek answers if you want to. From Cryptic. They are the ones you want the "truth" from.
This is to Jeremy, Chris, and the rest of the company at STOked...
On a personal level I realize you guys are probably good folks..just the average player interested in the game and so on.
However, Cryptic's delivery of this Advisory Council stinks so incredibly badly, that while you folks may be good folks the fact is, I do not want you representing my interests in STO.
It's nothing personal, but as things go, I do not consider the Advisory Council a representative body of my interests or concerns.
I quite strongly feel that Cryptic has the capacity to poll for feedback directly in the form of ingame polls, email polls, and so forth. Truth told I just finished a customer service issue with another company that everyone knows (Funcom) and got a survey response in email a day after the issue was resolved and the support ticket closed.
Let's face it..if Funcom of all companies could do this, there's literally no reason Cryptic couldn't do the same.
As a result of these things, I will reiterate my previous point..I simply do not feel the Advisory Council is or will ever be a representative body of my interests or feedback, and therein, if Cryptic was seriously interested in what players were interested in, and was seriously interested in reaching that "silent majority" that keeps getting bandied about, they would poll directly through email or ingame.
The fact they have chosen this route, shows me this is not a interest in the players, but a PR or Marketing move of some form in their agenda and really nothing more.
However, Cryptic's delivery of this Advisory Council stinks so incredibly badly, that while you folks may be good folks the fact is, I do not want you representing my interests in STO.
It's nothing personal, but as things go, I do not consider the Advisory Council a representative body of my interests or concerns.
Thats because they are NOT a representative body for you or for me or our concerns.
They are intended to represent OTHER members of the player base, from other communities/forums (like STOked). Many STO Players (and even non-players) who may not even visit or post on these forums.
The council is a way to reach those people. Not represent us.
They are not a council that has been set up to stand between you, me or anyone else on this forum who already provide our feedback here. Something we are free and encouraged to continue to do.
I guess what I am saying is; you are correct not to consider them as representing you.
Thats because they are NOT a representative body for you or for me or our concerns.
They are intended to represent OTHER members of the player base, from other communities/forums (like STOked). Many STO Players (and even non-players) who may not even visit or post on these forums.
The council is a way to reach those people. Not represent us.
They are not a council that has been set up to stand between you, me or anyone else on this forum who already provide our feedback here. Something we are free and encouraged to continue to do.
I guess what I am saying is; you are correct not to consider them as representing you.
Neither do I. Thats the whole point.
So, why was it merely their community with no one else so much as hinting at the fact that they were approached? I'm sure there are other communities represented here besides STOked, and not a single person besides Borticus has come forward with such information, that is what I find disturbing. It seems very likely that only STOked was approached in addition to the others with no other thought going into the program.
That along with the fact that STOked would do wonders for their public image if they were to release such information as it becomes available in such a way (text as well as their podcast) that even those who do not watch their podcast for whatever reason (either they don't like it, or they simply choose not to) will see and be able to sort through it. That could only lead to positive press for the STOked podcast.
So, why was it merely their community with no one else so much as hinting at the fact that they were approached? I'm sure there are other communities represented here besides STOked, and not a single person besides Borticus has come forward with such information, that is what I find disturbing. It seems very likely that only STOked was approached in addition to the others with no other thought going into the program.
That along with the fact that STOked would do wonders for their public image if they were to release such information as it becomes available in such a way (text as well as their podcast) that even those who do not watch their podcast for whatever reason (either they don't like it, or they simply choose not to) will see and be able to sort through it. That could only lead to positive press for the STOked podcast.
Listen - you seem to be hung up (pretty much continuously) over the fact that STOked were selected and AGAIN seem to imply that noone else was considered.
The Cryptic responses have stated that other members/communities will be added to the council over time. Someone had to be there for the start of it. It was them. It was a logical choice.
STOked may speculate (as they already have done) as to "why" they were chosen. But as I have said, it is not up to STOked to explain to everyone the selection criteria or justify their own selection. Chris and Jeremey have already explained they don't actually have that information themselves (they have only put a list of guesses down)
The FAQ is up, and it has a note added to it to advise that further player questions will be added to it over time. Why don't you PM one of the community guys your specific questions and try to get them added to the FAQ?
I'm sorry, you are barking up entirely the wrong tree, pestering Chris and Jeremy for all this information. The answers you seem to want lie with Cryptic and Atari.
And if I may say, you sound a little militant and overly-demanding in the process. They have a pod-cast, they post it on youtube (one of the most accessable and widely used mediums on the net) why are you banging on and on about them transcribing it? I'll tell you why, so you can go syllable by syllable through it, picking it apart in the hope you find some evidence of foul play. Not to dispel the hatred, as you proclaim.
Which is exactly why they should be steering clear of these issues in their podcasts.
Listen - you seem to be hung up (pretty much continuously) over the fact that STOked were selected and AGAIN seem to imply that noone else was considered.
The Cryptic responses have stated that other members/communities will be added to the council over time. Someone had to be there for the start of it. It was them. It was a logical choice.
STOked may speculate (as they already have done) as to "why" they were chosen. But as I have said, it is not up to STOked to explain to everyone the selection criteria or justify their own selection. Chris and Jeremey have already explained they don't actually have that information themselves (they have only put a list of guesses down)
The FAQ is up, and it has a note added to it to advise that further player questions will be added to it over time. Why don't you PM one of the community guys your specific questions and try to get them added to the FAQ?
I'm sorry, you are barking up entirely the wrong tree, pestering Chris and Jeremy for all this information. The answers you seem to want lie with Cryptic and Atari.
And if I may say, you sound a little militant and overly-demanding in the process. They have a pod-cast, they post it on youtube (one of the most accessable and widely used mediums on the net) why are you banging on and on about them transcribing it? I'll tell you why, so you can go syllable by syllable through it, picking it apart in the hope you find some evidence of foul play. Not to dispel the hatred, as you proclaim.
Which is exactly why they should be steering clear of these issues in their podcasts.
The problem is Cryptic seems to be avoiding answering anything at all, that FAQ, has very little actual information, it simply has the Appearance of answers rather than actual answers. It was very likely a ploy to attempt to quiet the majority of the community. And considering Borticus and I seem to be on the same page as far as certain issues go, it would only be natural to release the information. Their public image has been tarnished over the course of these events, And if they were to publicly show they are seeking the same answers the community is asking, it would certainly go quite a long way to bolstering that image.
You seem to be the only person that disputes the value of this. And the reason a text version of the information should be accessible is quite simple, there are large portions of the playerbase that have little to no interest in watching their podcast, for various reasons. They would not be as adverse to reading said information however. Many people will not watch their podcast simply because of the events which have occured over the past several days.
I am not biased, I am attempting to get the truth in such a way that it will be available to as many people as possible. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away, and very likely could lead to the destruction of this game which I don't think anyone who has a vested interest really wants.
The problem is Cryptic seems to be avoiding answering anything at all, that FAQ, has very little actual information, it simply has the Appearance of answers rather than actual answers. It was very likely a ploy to attempt to quiet the majority of the community. And considering Borticus and I seem to be on the same page as far as certain issues go, it would only be natural to release the information. Their public image has been tarnished over the course of these events, And if they were to publicly show they are seeking the same answers the community is asking, it would certainly go quite a long way to bolstering that image.
You seem to be the only person that disputes the value of this. And the reason a text version of the information should be accessible is quite simple, there are large portions of the playerbase that have little to no interest in watching their podcast, for various reasons. They would not be as adverse to reading said information however. Many people will not watch their podcast simply because of the events which have occured over the past several days.
I am not biased, I am attempting to get the truth in such a way that it will be available to as many people as possible. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away, and very likely could lead to the destruction of this game which I don't think anyone who has a vested interest really wants.
As I said. Post your questions to someone to get added to the FAQ if you feel its currently lacking.
However, there is actually no lack of information. You just seem unwilling to accept it. There's a big difference.
In any case, I will repeat what I said earlier which is the STOked guys have said they have no facts or information about the selection process and have only "guessed" as to the reasons for their own selection.
What exactly are you therefore expecting the STOked pod-cast to reveal?
And I've read Borticus's posts the same as you have. And yes, he agrees (as I do) that the matter was handled poorly. That doesn't mean he is suddenly in the firing line to explain or justify the whole thing to you or me.
You appear to ignore the fundamental crux of this which is, Cryptic and Atari hold the answers you appear to seek. Go ask them :rolleyes:
They lost all my support when they didn't decline the invitation.
Cryptic's support is more important than ours.
They had no faith that we'd choose them if given the choice. Which I actually would have prior to this thing being crammed down my throat, want it or not.
I consider ALL of the original candidates as "Not Acceptable" and as "Not worthy of respect" and as "asking for it" because none of them declined the "honor", if they do get in.
When brown nosing the publisher is more important than standing up for your fellow players, you are a "fanboi"
There isn't anything wrong with being that. Just admit it, don't lie and say you are anything else.
Well said.
I said in another post that anyone worth their salt would have said "thanks but no thanks" to the position/title, but gladly offered to anonymously provide whatever assistance they could toward making the game better.
Anyone doing it that needs the title to go with it is doing it for the wrong reasons as far as I'm concerned.
As I said. Post your questions to someone to get added to the FAQ if you feel its currently lacking.
However, there is actually no lack of information. You just seem unwilling to accept it. There's a big difference.
In any case, I will repeat what I said earlier which is the STOked guys have said they have no facts or information about the selection process and have only "guessed" as to the reasons for their own selection.
What exactly are you therefore expecting the STOked pod-cast to reveal?
And I've read Borticus's posts the same as you have. And yes, he agrees (as I do) that the matter was handled poorly. That doesn't mean he is suddenly in the firing line to explain or justify the whole thing to you or me.
You appear to ignore the fundamental crux of this which is, Cryptic and Atari hold the answers you appear to seek. Go ask them :rolleyes:
As the climate currently is, Cryptic and Atari are very likely unwilling to answer any questions, Questions have been submitted and have come back with cookie cutter PR answers rather than any actual information. This same thing occurred in the FAQ. For whatever reason the need to either hide from, potentially misinform the playerbase has arisen.
The game in its current state is extremely fragile, and should be treated with kid gloves. The overwhelming Majority of the community has already left the game in favor of greener pastures. This occured due to the subpar launch, the incomplete game, and the way certain events prior to this weekend have been handled. The fact that they continue to disregard the community or not tell us what is happening leads one to believe there are some very unqualified individuals in charge of something in Atari/Cryptic. They have a game that quite honestly has a premade audience. All they had to do was provide a working complete game, and support it. Instead it was rushed out, unfinished, and largely broken. This along with a few very large marketing blunders has largely killed this game unless they do something NOW to correct the course.
I said in another post that anyone worth their salt would have said "thanks but no thanks" to the position/title, but gladly offered to anonymously provide whatever assistance they could toward making the game better.
Anyone doing it that needs the title to go with it is doing it for the wrong reasons as far as I'm concerned.
Anybody who headed up their own community would have been foolish to have turned down the chance to represent that community.
Its very easy for people to wade in and judge them on what they insist they would have done.
Sadly we only have you word for it, that you would have done.
Anybody who headed up their own community would have been foolish to have turned down the chance to represent that community.
You need to re-read my post.
I never said they should have declined participating in an effort to help make the game better or represent their corner of the world. I said the title/position would be and is unnessary for them to do that and should not be the major motivation behind doing it.
If the name/title/position is important to them, then they aren't worth it as far as I'm concerned.
As the climate currently is, Cryptic and Atari are very likely unwilling to answer any questions, Questions have been submitted and have come back with cookie cutter PR answers rather than any actual information. This same thing occurred in the FAQ. For whatever reason the need to either hide from, potentially misinform the playerbase has arisen.
The game in its current state is extremely fragile, and should be treated with kid gloves. The overwhelming Majority of the community has already left the game in favor of greener pastures. This occured due to the subpar launch, the incomplete game, and the way certain events prior to this weekend have been handled. The fact that they continue to disregard the community or not tell us what is happening leads one to believe there are some very unqualified individuals in charge of something in Atari/Cryptic. They have a game that quite honestly has a premade audience. All they had to do was provide a working complete game, and support it. Instead it was rushed out, unfinished, and largely broken. This along with a few very large marketing blunders has largely killed this game unless they do something NOW to correct the course.
Oh dear, you seem to have ignored the point again and instead swerved off into a tirade of blanket, baseless generalisations and soundbites about "overwhelming majorities" and game issues unrelated to the topic at hand.
If you intended to win the debate by expanding your responses to include a myriade of other complaints in the hope it would bore me to death. Congrats.
So I'll leave you to it. Please, take this opportunity to pause and organise your thoughts into a rationale, coherent chain.
I never said they should have declined participating in an effort to help make the game better or represent their corner of the world. I said the title/position would be and is unnessary for them to do that and should not be the major motivation behind doing it.
If the name/title/position is important to them, then they aren't worth it as far as I'm concerned.
to my knowledge they have never said the title was important to them.
you imply it must be important to them or they wouldn't have taken the role. I disagee.
I'm gonna re-state a few things here in plain-farkin-English in hopes that of finally letting these points hit home.
1) The Advisory Council does not represent the Cryptic forums.
You already have a voice here. Use it if you want to be heard. And if you're not being heard here, then you have an issue with CRYPTIC, not the Council.
2) Over 100,000 subscribers never post on these forums.
This outreach program is an attempt to get some input from those players. Yes, in-game polls would be good as well, but when a poll is multiple choice it doesn't leave much room for creative feedback.
Keep in mind as well, that this fact (provided by Ivan-Cryptic) indicates that these forums are about as far from an "overwhelming majority" as could possibly be the case. In fact, it's entirely possible that the combined audiences of STOked, TrekMovie and SFI are larger than these forums. Their voices deserve every chance to be heard.
3) We get nothing from this, but bad press.
No free subs, no swag, no inside scoops, no fancy titles or extra powers. We've already done interviews w/ Cryptic staff, this is nothing new or different. Except the fact that THEY are coming to US this time with QUESTIONS instead of ANSWERS. Do you get the difference?
And some may argue that 'any publicity is good publicity' for us, but I'm willing to bet that any increase in traffic we've seen over the past almost-week, will not be of long-term benefit to us. And to be clear, we haven't actually seen an increase.
4) It's not our responsibility to answer to this forum.
I've been attempting to do so out of simple human kindness, and an urge to help this community out. I've been on these forums for a very long time, and I hate to see them devolve into the cesspools they became over the past week. It's primarily caused by misinformation, assumptions, rumors and lies, and so I stepped in out of an effort to eliminate those problems. Everywhere I poked my head up it only made me a target of ridicule, and I have to wonder why I bothered in the first place.
As was said by a previous poster - if you take issue with this Council endeavor, you need to bring your complaints to Cryptic. I have no control over the matter at this time, and I don't have the answers that you guys are seeking.
And I realize that only addresses a small cross-section of the "issues" I'm seeing raised here, but most of the other claims I honestly see as preposterous. The accusations of favoritism, king-making, politics and more...
Sigh... it's just a game, people. I'd hate to be around most of you guys if you react even more strongly to things that actually matter.
Yes, in-game polls would be good as well, but when a poll is multiple choice it doesn't leave much room for creative feedback.
There are two sides to that coin. It depends on the questions being asked and what the desired goal is.
Do you want a lot of feedback that is so generalized that no commonality can easily be gleaned from it (if at all) or do you want well thought out questions to get the most direct answer to what it is you are asking in the first place?
There is a huge difference between:
What is most important for you to see next in STO? with a free form text box for everyone who answers to write whatever they want in there.
vs.
What is most important for you to see next in STO? with either a single or multiple choice option that covers the majority of things that you can already tell people are looking for.
If sifting through a lot of "noise" to derive some consensus on what people want is the goal, then use the first choice. If you would like to provide your audience with some direction and get better results more efficiently and quickly, then go with the second option.
If you were to ask 1,000 subscribers what is most important to them for STO, you'll get 1,000 different answers. Ask those same 1,000 to choose which answer best fits what they are looking for and you have a much better grasp of the information.
to my knowledge they have never said the title was important to them.
you imply it must be important to them or they wouldn't have taken the role. I disagee.
is that clearer for you?
Yes that is more clear. It also shows that the title/position is important to them since they have made no effort to decline it.
If it's not such a big deal, then say "thanks but no thanks" to a "seat on the council", yet continue help provide feedback from the community you represent.
You have people here on these forums contributing feedback, ideas, even doing what they can to get in touch with Trek personalities to gauge interest in voiceover work for the game. They aren't doing it to "represent their small group" or for a seat on any "council" or some special title. They are doing it because they care.
If you were to ask 1,000 subscribers what is most important to them for STO, you'll get 1,000 different answers. Ask those same 1,000 to choose which answer best fits what they are looking for and you have a much better grasp of the information.
But this is not an either-or situation. Cryptic has already said that they will be doing more in-game polling. This new source of feedback (if it works) will only be used to supplement that. Not supplant it.
Yes that is more clear. It also shows that the title/position is important to them since they have made no effort to decline it.
If it's not such a big deal, then say "thanks but no thanks" to a "seat on the council", yet continue help provide feedback from the community you represent.
You have people here on these forums contributing feedback, ideas, even doing what they can to get in touch with Trek personalities to gauge interest in voiceover work for the game. They aren't doing it to "represent their small group" or for a seat on any "council" or some special title. They are doing it because they care.
As I said, its easy for people who weren't offered it to say they wouldn't have taken the job.
But this is not an either-or situation. Cryptic has already said that they will be doing more in-game polling. This new source of feedback (if it works) will only be used to supplement that. Not supplant it.
Yes I agree and it was not my intent to say that this council thing is supplanting anything. I was merely pointing out something about that particular piece.
It's also very easy for any council member to post here and say "Cryptic, I really don't need or want any special title, thanks", isn't it?
Not really no.
I'm not convinced they even knew at the point they were approached that it would be this publicised or even named the "Advisory Council" (but only Borticus is probably able to answer that)
If I ran a community, I'd look at the role simply as an opportunity to represent my community. Which I wouldn't turn down out of some kind of misguided allegiance to this forum.
Out of the many reasons they might choose to accept the position, you choose to believe they did as a chance to take some kind of title. Pressumabley because thats any easy reason for you to choose as it helps your attempts to try and discredit them.
Also, it sounds a bit like you've been bitten by the green-eye'd monster to me. But thats just my opinion.
I was just informed that our first Council meeting, which was scheduled to take place approximately an hour from now, has been postponed in order to more accurately fulfill the combined needs of Cryptic and its playerbase.
So now I have even LESS info on the whole freakin' thing, since it's apparently going to change a bunch. So I'm just gonna stop talking about it now.
Ivan's been answering a bunch of questions about it in another thread. I recommend you raise your questions to him in that same thread.
Comments
You have no idea how much I agree with that, which has been a hope of mine that the STOked team have an emergency video/episode, discussing this. I actually came up with 3 pages of stuff that I felt needed to be talked about over this one issue, that was put under the suggestions box for them to see, complete with links to sources of information.
In the end, it's up to the STOked team what they decide to talk about and when, but hopefully, after this whole uproar in the STO forums, this will be an issue discussed upon in a bit of detail in the next episode. I can't go farther than maybe's and possibles because I'm not in STOked, I'm just a Fleetie from Jupiter Force.
And maybe you or someone else in that community could go through and compile all the information in text form for the rest of the forum community. I really do hope this rift in the playerbase can be healed over time.
I have to agree with this and practically everything DearthZero has pointed out. I've checked out a couple of STOked podcasts and I didn't find them worth continuing to keep watch or even listen to. The fact that Cryptic went out of their way to endorse this council and cheerypick from the litter with the biggest brown smudges on their nose (and in some cases, face) really disappoints me.
Valid questions for sure.
I wouldn't worry too much as the "issue" appears to be blowing over anyway.
There's only this thread and the "impeachment" thread still going, both of which have hardly any new names posting in them. Its mostly the same handful of people posting round and round in either of them.
I think the community whilst miffed about the way it was communicated are probably coming to terms with it now.
There is no rampant hatred in the community of STOked that I am aware of (a little of the green-eyed monster from a few people perhaps but thats it) and there is nothing that STOked have to personally answer for is this matter.
In my opinion you guys have always done a good job at entertaining folks and sharing information about the game with the community and that is what you should continue to focus on doing. The absolute worst thing you could do now is start diverting away from the game itself and start dedciating your time in pod casts to being drawn into the politics of this which you are NOT responsible for.
If people want to direct their issues to Cryptic about the handling of this, fine. That is not your job.
There were just as many people who saw no issues with the council as there were who had a problem with it and you should stay focussed on why you were selected (and it was perfectly justified) and keep doing that.
If you use your podcast in a couple of weeks to re-open up the issues and potentially cause more drama, I'll personally avoid the shows as this is not the reason I watch them, and is not an issue that should be taking up time in your shows. Its an issue for here. For Cryptic and Atari and people in this forum to debate if they want to.
Thats just my 2 cents.
So you believe the community as a whole should be ignored..and that they basically aren't worth telling the truth to?
STOked have the responsibility to answer because they have the ability to answer..with such a position comes the responsibility to bring forth the facts of such a position. And I'm not sure if you are aware, but much of the community is still quite furious, they simply have ceased posting because by and large they are being ignored, so the rampant hatred I'm referring to isn't within the STOked community..but within the STO forums themselves.
I would love to agree that there is NO issue or that the issue is indeed dying out, however from everything that has been seen points to the contrary. This is still a very heated issue, just most are becoming irritated with the fact that we have been given NO information...and don't link that FAQ as it is more or less simply an appearance of answers without stating very much in the way of facts.
I'm not saying anyone should be ignored. I think the community should seek its answers from Cryptic if they want to. That is not the responsibility of STOked.
And the issue is dying out. Cryptic have explained their intentions and motives behind this and whatever we think about their handling of the situation, this should not divert STOked from what they do.
You may not like it, personally. Thats your right as it is your right to continue to seek answers if you want to. From Cryptic. They are the ones you want the "truth" from.
On a personal level I realize you guys are probably good folks..just the average player interested in the game and so on.
However, Cryptic's delivery of this Advisory Council stinks so incredibly badly, that while you folks may be good folks the fact is, I do not want you representing my interests in STO.
It's nothing personal, but as things go, I do not consider the Advisory Council a representative body of my interests or concerns.
I quite strongly feel that Cryptic has the capacity to poll for feedback directly in the form of ingame polls, email polls, and so forth. Truth told I just finished a customer service issue with another company that everyone knows (Funcom) and got a survey response in email a day after the issue was resolved and the support ticket closed.
Let's face it..if Funcom of all companies could do this, there's literally no reason Cryptic couldn't do the same.
As a result of these things, I will reiterate my previous point..I simply do not feel the Advisory Council is or will ever be a representative body of my interests or feedback, and therein, if Cryptic was seriously interested in what players were interested in, and was seriously interested in reaching that "silent majority" that keeps getting bandied about, they would poll directly through email or ingame.
The fact they have chosen this route, shows me this is not a interest in the players, but a PR or Marketing move of some form in their agenda and really nothing more.
Thats because they are NOT a representative body for you or for me or our concerns.
They are intended to represent OTHER members of the player base, from other communities/forums (like STOked). Many STO Players (and even non-players) who may not even visit or post on these forums.
The council is a way to reach those people. Not represent us.
They are not a council that has been set up to stand between you, me or anyone else on this forum who already provide our feedback here. Something we are free and encouraged to continue to do.
I guess what I am saying is; you are correct not to consider them as representing you.
Neither do I. Thats the whole point.
So, why was it merely their community with no one else so much as hinting at the fact that they were approached? I'm sure there are other communities represented here besides STOked, and not a single person besides Borticus has come forward with such information, that is what I find disturbing. It seems very likely that only STOked was approached in addition to the others with no other thought going into the program.
That along with the fact that STOked would do wonders for their public image if they were to release such information as it becomes available in such a way (text as well as their podcast) that even those who do not watch their podcast for whatever reason (either they don't like it, or they simply choose not to) will see and be able to sort through it. That could only lead to positive press for the STOked podcast.
Listen - you seem to be hung up (pretty much continuously) over the fact that STOked were selected and AGAIN seem to imply that noone else was considered.
The Cryptic responses have stated that other members/communities will be added to the council over time. Someone had to be there for the start of it. It was them. It was a logical choice.
STOked may speculate (as they already have done) as to "why" they were chosen. But as I have said, it is not up to STOked to explain to everyone the selection criteria or justify their own selection. Chris and Jeremey have already explained they don't actually have that information themselves (they have only put a list of guesses down)
The FAQ is up, and it has a note added to it to advise that further player questions will be added to it over time. Why don't you PM one of the community guys your specific questions and try to get them added to the FAQ?
I'm sorry, you are barking up entirely the wrong tree, pestering Chris and Jeremy for all this information. The answers you seem to want lie with Cryptic and Atari.
And if I may say, you sound a little militant and overly-demanding in the process. They have a pod-cast, they post it on youtube (one of the most accessable and widely used mediums on the net) why are you banging on and on about them transcribing it? I'll tell you why, so you can go syllable by syllable through it, picking it apart in the hope you find some evidence of foul play. Not to dispel the hatred, as you proclaim.
Which is exactly why they should be steering clear of these issues in their podcasts.
The problem is Cryptic seems to be avoiding answering anything at all, that FAQ, has very little actual information, it simply has the Appearance of answers rather than actual answers. It was very likely a ploy to attempt to quiet the majority of the community. And considering Borticus and I seem to be on the same page as far as certain issues go, it would only be natural to release the information. Their public image has been tarnished over the course of these events, And if they were to publicly show they are seeking the same answers the community is asking, it would certainly go quite a long way to bolstering that image.
You seem to be the only person that disputes the value of this. And the reason a text version of the information should be accessible is quite simple, there are large portions of the playerbase that have little to no interest in watching their podcast, for various reasons. They would not be as adverse to reading said information however. Many people will not watch their podcast simply because of the events which have occured over the past several days.
I am not biased, I am attempting to get the truth in such a way that it will be available to as many people as possible. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away, and very likely could lead to the destruction of this game which I don't think anyone who has a vested interest really wants.
As I said. Post your questions to someone to get added to the FAQ if you feel its currently lacking.
However, there is actually no lack of information. You just seem unwilling to accept it. There's a big difference.
In any case, I will repeat what I said earlier which is the STOked guys have said they have no facts or information about the selection process and have only "guessed" as to the reasons for their own selection.
What exactly are you therefore expecting the STOked pod-cast to reveal?
And I've read Borticus's posts the same as you have. And yes, he agrees (as I do) that the matter was handled poorly. That doesn't mean he is suddenly in the firing line to explain or justify the whole thing to you or me.
You appear to ignore the fundamental crux of this which is, Cryptic and Atari hold the answers you appear to seek. Go ask them :rolleyes:
Well said.
I said in another post that anyone worth their salt would have said "thanks but no thanks" to the position/title, but gladly offered to anonymously provide whatever assistance they could toward making the game better.
Anyone doing it that needs the title to go with it is doing it for the wrong reasons as far as I'm concerned.
As the climate currently is, Cryptic and Atari are very likely unwilling to answer any questions, Questions have been submitted and have come back with cookie cutter PR answers rather than any actual information. This same thing occurred in the FAQ. For whatever reason the need to either hide from, potentially misinform the playerbase has arisen.
The game in its current state is extremely fragile, and should be treated with kid gloves. The overwhelming Majority of the community has already left the game in favor of greener pastures. This occured due to the subpar launch, the incomplete game, and the way certain events prior to this weekend have been handled. The fact that they continue to disregard the community or not tell us what is happening leads one to believe there are some very unqualified individuals in charge of something in Atari/Cryptic. They have a game that quite honestly has a premade audience. All they had to do was provide a working complete game, and support it. Instead it was rushed out, unfinished, and largely broken. This along with a few very large marketing blunders has largely killed this game unless they do something NOW to correct the course.
Anybody who headed up their own community would have been foolish to have turned down the chance to represent that community.
Its very easy for people to wade in and judge them on what they insist they would have done.
Sadly we only have you word for it, that you would have done.
You need to re-read my post.
I never said they should have declined participating in an effort to help make the game better or represent their corner of the world. I said the title/position would be and is unnessary for them to do that and should not be the major motivation behind doing it.
If the name/title/position is important to them, then they aren't worth it as far as I'm concerned.
Oh dear, you seem to have ignored the point again and instead swerved off into a tirade of blanket, baseless generalisations and soundbites about "overwhelming majorities" and game issues unrelated to the topic at hand.
If you intended to win the debate by expanding your responses to include a myriade of other complaints in the hope it would bore me to death. Congrats.
So I'll leave you to it. Please, take this opportunity to pause and organise your thoughts into a rationale, coherent chain.
to my knowledge they have never said the title was important to them.
you imply it must be important to them or they wouldn't have taken the role. I disagee.
is that clearer for you?
1) The Advisory Council does not represent the Cryptic forums.
You already have a voice here. Use it if you want to be heard. And if you're not being heard here, then you have an issue with CRYPTIC, not the Council.
2) Over 100,000 subscribers never post on these forums.
This outreach program is an attempt to get some input from those players. Yes, in-game polls would be good as well, but when a poll is multiple choice it doesn't leave much room for creative feedback.
Keep in mind as well, that this fact (provided by Ivan-Cryptic) indicates that these forums are about as far from an "overwhelming majority" as could possibly be the case. In fact, it's entirely possible that the combined audiences of STOked, TrekMovie and SFI are larger than these forums. Their voices deserve every chance to be heard.
3) We get nothing from this, but bad press.
No free subs, no swag, no inside scoops, no fancy titles or extra powers. We've already done interviews w/ Cryptic staff, this is nothing new or different. Except the fact that THEY are coming to US this time with QUESTIONS instead of ANSWERS. Do you get the difference?
And some may argue that 'any publicity is good publicity' for us, but I'm willing to bet that any increase in traffic we've seen over the past almost-week, will not be of long-term benefit to us. And to be clear, we haven't actually seen an increase.
4) It's not our responsibility to answer to this forum.
I've been attempting to do so out of simple human kindness, and an urge to help this community out. I've been on these forums for a very long time, and I hate to see them devolve into the cesspools they became over the past week. It's primarily caused by misinformation, assumptions, rumors and lies, and so I stepped in out of an effort to eliminate those problems. Everywhere I poked my head up it only made me a target of ridicule, and I have to wonder why I bothered in the first place.
As was said by a previous poster - if you take issue with this Council endeavor, you need to bring your complaints to Cryptic. I have no control over the matter at this time, and I don't have the answers that you guys are seeking.
And I realize that only addresses a small cross-section of the "issues" I'm seeing raised here, but most of the other claims I honestly see as preposterous. The accusations of favoritism, king-making, politics and more...
Sigh... it's just a game, people. I'd hate to be around most of you guys if you react even more strongly to things that actually matter.
There are two sides to that coin. It depends on the questions being asked and what the desired goal is.
Do you want a lot of feedback that is so generalized that no commonality can easily be gleaned from it (if at all) or do you want well thought out questions to get the most direct answer to what it is you are asking in the first place?
There is a huge difference between:
What is most important for you to see next in STO? with a free form text box for everyone who answers to write whatever they want in there.
vs.
What is most important for you to see next in STO? with either a single or multiple choice option that covers the majority of things that you can already tell people are looking for.
If sifting through a lot of "noise" to derive some consensus on what people want is the goal, then use the first choice. If you would like to provide your audience with some direction and get better results more efficiently and quickly, then go with the second option.
If you were to ask 1,000 subscribers what is most important to them for STO, you'll get 1,000 different answers. Ask those same 1,000 to choose which answer best fits what they are looking for and you have a much better grasp of the information.
Yes that is more clear. It also shows that the title/position is important to them since they have made no effort to decline it.
If it's not such a big deal, then say "thanks but no thanks" to a "seat on the council", yet continue help provide feedback from the community you represent.
You have people here on these forums contributing feedback, ideas, even doing what they can to get in touch with Trek personalities to gauge interest in voiceover work for the game. They aren't doing it to "represent their small group" or for a seat on any "council" or some special title. They are doing it because they care.
But this is not an either-or situation. Cryptic has already said that they will be doing more in-game polling. This new source of feedback (if it works) will only be used to supplement that. Not supplant it.
As I said, its easy for people who weren't offered it to say they wouldn't have taken the job.
Offer it to me and I'd decline the title without question. I'd still do my part in helping to provide feedback in any way I could.
It's not supposed to be about the title, right?
Yes I agree and it was not my intent to say that this council thing is supplanting anything. I was merely pointing out something about that particular piece.
Sorry if that was not more clear.
and the only proof that they did take the job as some kind of title grab is.... thats is what you choose to believe.
Which isn't proof.
And as I said. Its easy for you to say all this.
Actions speak louder than words, don't they?
It's also very easy for any council member to post here and say "Cryptic, I really don't need or want any special title, thanks", isn't it?
Not really no.
I'm not convinced they even knew at the point they were approached that it would be this publicised or even named the "Advisory Council" (but only Borticus is probably able to answer that)
If I ran a community, I'd look at the role simply as an opportunity to represent my community. Which I wouldn't turn down out of some kind of misguided allegiance to this forum.
Out of the many reasons they might choose to accept the position, you choose to believe they did as a chance to take some kind of title. Pressumabley because thats any easy reason for you to choose as it helps your attempts to try and discredit them.
Also, it sounds a bit like you've been bitten by the green-eye'd monster to me. But thats just my opinion.
I was just informed that our first Council meeting, which was scheduled to take place approximately an hour from now, has been postponed in order to more accurately fulfill the combined needs of Cryptic and its playerbase.
So now I have even LESS info on the whole freakin' thing, since it's apparently going to change a bunch. So I'm just gonna stop talking about it now.
Ivan's been answering a bunch of questions about it in another thread. I recommend you raise your questions to him in that same thread.