Personally I think STO will last a good while. I don't think it will ever become the MMO we all wanted but there's so many people that will play STO no matter how bad simply because its Star Trek.
I am confident that ToR will be an excellent game but because of all the hype, waiting time and so on there will be hell of a lot of people disappointed with ToR just the same as been with STO.
I personally am hoping ToR will be THE MMORPG. I am leaving STO in may tbh and going back to LoTRO because atm STO simply being Star Trek in name is not enough to keep me subbing, I have given them a few quid and that's enough for the time being.
Thing that kills STO mostly for me is that we are constantly bullsh*tted too by mainly Atari and all there PR blunders are really hurting STO, Best thing Cryptic could do is look for a company to buy out Atari for the rights of STO if that's at all possible.
At the end of the day there will always be doom-sayers that spout dis-information about STO because they simply want to see it fail cause it doesn't live up to there high standard and IMHO STO will live for quite sometime yet, How long, That depends on Atari/Cryptic. Really they should ditch whoever is pulling all these mindless PR stunts and start to fix existing bugs instead of spending there time adding pointless C-Store items that makes them look greedy and Desperate.
Season 1 and the Council really killed STO for me personally. Season 1 imho adds some nice stuff but its hardly a major content addition and the council Idea while nice in theory is going to blow up in there faces.
I will check back in several months when bored with LoTRO again Cant go back to WoW cause my missus would divorce me yet again
Best advice I could ever give anyone in any MMO is Just play the game and never visit the foums of said game unless you have played for quite some time and Know if you like or dislike it before the onslaught of TRIBBLE that the forums spews out. If you like the game then you should be safe, If you dislike it even a little bit then regular forum visits will kill the game completely for you.
Age Of Conan/Warhammer they wish they had 300k people, alas they dont, they might have LESS now than
what STO has. Besides those games were more expensive to make than STO.
Well i dont trust the numbers of subs some people say.
I only know if SWTOR will need 1 mio subs, they will die. I cant believe that number also.
From my experience in the last 10 years the market changed totally. Most of the new MMO try to get the funds back with release they invested. The monthly fee and the microtransactions you need is to keep running a team and other costs. Thats why everyone pushed market and a hype. Just look back the last releases, really very few MMO raised the subs after release, the very very most lost after release 50-90 % of their subs in between 1-2 month after release. Thats why they push the products pre release to generate money from the hype. As long people walks in this trap with fun, nothing will change. For my part i can say, i wait now at least 1 Month after release to buy the game, because i dont think all i miss is trouble and a good game will be at market for years, so 1 more month doesnt matter, just need the patience
you want a game that will make STO hurt and TOR wait to bring there game out until next spring?
Final Fantasy 14 online.....
The Final fantasy series has more followers than any other game....The next installation is already on it's first closed beta and is due out later this year. I see Final fantasy 14 online putting the last nail into the coffin of WoW and making other games difficult to keep membership for awhile.
it has the potential just because of it's name to have a larger amount of subs than WoW ever had and the last WoW addon has already been anounced as the last one they will have for that game.
It will be good for the Asian gamers and American children.
Don't think I have ever met an American adult that played the FF MMO, at least none that played longer than a week.
It will be good for the Asian gamers and American children.
Don't think I have ever met an American adult that played the FF MMO, at least none that played longer than a week.
Gotta say I loved FFVII but everything after that was pure BS in my opinion but I'm not a lover of the Asian style games tbh. FFVII was an exception IMHO.
Eve Online had roughly 200K (a bit less) and generally had in the 20K range signed on at any one time.
They don't seem to be doing too badly.
200k? as was said in the thread earlier EVE has around 300k per server. There is a Western server and an Eastern server. EVE is hovering somewhere between 600k and 700k subs globally.
22 pages and it all boils down to I'm definitely trying TOR.
Heheheh /Agreed. I really would love to Beta it but I'm not that hopeful. I trust bioware over all other companies regardless if its there first MMO or not. I just know it will not be released until its polished and I know it will ooze quality from the start.
I mean the 45 day patch used to imply that cardassians would get introduced. My guess is that's at least 6 months away. Romulans? Nah, this game won't exist by the time they get thrown in.
I'm one of the 5200 lifers I guess. One of the dumb ones who didn't immediately get a refund upon release. If you don't know why this game is already dead then you probably also can't understand why a movie like Clash of the Titans sucks TRIBBLE either. Some people get it, others don't. Some people like flashy moving things and are easily appeased, and others can see through the BS and tell what stolen, poorly implemented ideas look like.
200k? as was said in the thread earlier EVE has around 300k per server. There is a Western server and an Eastern server. EVE is hovering somewhere between 600k and 700k subs globally.
Very true but that was not always the case. EVE for a long time survived and THRIVED with under 300K subscriptions. In fact it thrived so well that it put up an Eastern server and bought a pen and paper gaming company. EVE did not start strong, it was actually small by todays standards. The reason it survived was it was focused and kept a serious budget.
I mean consider 100K subscriptions for a moment from a money point of view. Lets say an average of $8 per month income to average out year and life timers. This is still $800K per month gross, or over 8 million per year for a single title. Lets say a development team of 30 kept on the job, we will average their income to say $30K per year, after all they are likely working other projects as well to earn their pay so all their pay does not apply to STO. That is about 1 million a year or a little less for labor costs. Now factor in the costs for servers and hardware, a lot of which will be maintenance from here on and not as expensive.
No matter how you slice it with 100K subscriptions is is STUPID to believe a game cannot survive.
Oh, I know the financial history of EVE. It is an incredible little story, actually. CCP and its history is one of the reasons I know STO and Cryptic will be fine. The philosophy of both companies are similar as is their attitude towards their customers and employees.
Cryptic develop their games to be profitable at around 100k, which they've stated numerious times. The other games you mention cost way more to develop.
It is also common that the cost of development is recovered with box sales. Subscription numbers usually only affect the size of the continued development team. Given the amount of work Cryptic are putting in on both STO and CO I'd say they are doing fine.
So your chart also states that Ultima Online has the same subscribers as Warhammer online...
Similar threads like these are fed continuous by the same group of posters with hyperbole, placebo and inflated expectations justified by rumor, gossip and imaginary numbers. FUD
Guess, it might be a last ditch effort to voice out just before their subs expired and grab attention. If you are to drown, drag more people with you. Group think is the thing to do.
As for SW:TOR, being a Star wars enthusiast, I will try it. Since there's no lifetime sub over there, I guess I will wait till, bioware being a first timer for making a MMO, a few months after launch before taking the plunge. Its being ages, and they can't even start their closed beta testing stage...
Personally, I dont believe this game has 100K subscribers. The quote everyone refers to was made not long after launch. Even at that time the quote said over 100k subscribers. I look at this as what they had within the 30 day time period after launch. This would count all those subs that still had free game time with a payment backing them up.
Now common sense tells me, that many of those cancelled before that first payment was actually made. How many I have, no idea, but I do know that a good many did just that. Then you had the people that believed the orignal hype that season 1 was a major content patch and were willing to pay for that next month just to see how that turned out. How many of those cancelled their sub when they saw that it was all fluff, c-store stuff and a single STF. Quite a few if the forums are any indication.
Now of course this doesnt take into account people who bought new box sets in that time frame. But once again common sense tells me that it has not been a whole lot just by their dropping pirces to promote sells. Common sense also tells me that people who waited to buy this game to see what the reviews said, steered far away from it. Now you will say that the reviews are worthless in your opinion, but the fact is, that many do go by them. Good reviews would have sold lots of more boxes wether you want to admit it or not.
To add to my line of reasoning, you have the new charecter profile up and running. Over 300K is the number. Now I seriously doubt at this stage of developement, that every toon ever created in this game is not listed on there. So, if this is true, you have only this number of people who have ever created a toon. Take off, the number of people who have more than one toon created, and this number drops a staggering amount. Most people have two even if they are only playing one.
Of course, this does not make any of it true. But untill more facts come out, my numbers come out to way UNDER a 100k subscribers.
Cryptics own actions make me believe I am right, hence the idea of the council to increase public perception.
Personally, I dont believe this game has 100K subscribers. The quote everyone refers to was made not long after launch. Even at that time the quote said over 100k subscribers.
The quote was made on March 23rd 2010 by Jack Emmert COO of Cryptic... So to say it was made right after launch is well... Don't spread lies...
Similar threads like these are fed continuous by the same group of posters with hyperbole, placebo and inflated expectations justified by rumor, gossip and imaginary numbers. FUD
Guess, it might be a last ditch effort to voice out just before their subs expired and grab attention. If you are to drown, drag more people with you. Group think is the thing to do.
That sums it up perfectly. Nothing more than nonsense and noise. Hopefully they'll get to deleting this garbage today.
Which is exactly what I said, not long after launch. Less than 45 days. No lies here, the statement is legit. I never said right after launch so do not read into something that is not there:)
Which is exactly what I said, not long after launch. Less than 45 days. No lies here, the statement is legit. I never said right after launch so do not read into something that is not there:)
All I was getting at is that the Statement was made two weeks ago...
200k? as was said in the thread earlier EVE has around 300k per server. There is a Western server and an Eastern server. EVE is hovering somewhere between 600k and 700k subs globally.
As of last May, they celebrated reaching the 300K (and growing) subscriber mark:
Take off, the number of people who have more than one toon created, and this number drops a staggering amount. Most people have two even if they are only playing one.
Well not quite. While the roots of victorian goth and steampunk are based on the victorian era clothing the simularities stop there. They diverage quite a bit beyond that.
Victorian goth = clothing based on funeral/mourning garb of the victorian era (generally black)
Steampunk = victorian era clothing (all types and colors) based on a fictional world where they went 'hi-tech' with steam/analog level technology.
Quite different.
I am no more going to wear a pair of goggles on a derby like many steampunk men do as they are about to wear all black like I.
You think Star Trek Online, the galactic joke of MMO's can go head to head with a Bioware/Star Wars product and survive? You are sadly mistaken.
Do you really think the quality of Star Trek Online would match the quality of a Bioware game? Keep telling yourself that.
Bioware fanboy alert. 'Bioware can do no wrong' speech.
How many times have I heard that *chuckles*
None the less, this is their first MMO. I expect they will stumble along the way. How badly they stumble is up for debate. May be a hiccup.. may be a massive let down or something inbetween. But again I ask you to qualify your opinion with some kind of facts. Otherwise its just you drunk the bioware koolaid and little else.
Bioware fanboy alert. 'Bioware can do no wrong' speech.
How many times have I heard that *chuckles*
None the less, this is their first MMO. I expect they will stumble along the way. How badly they stumble is up for debate. May be a hiccup.. may be a massive let down or something inbetween. But again I ask you to qualify your opinion with some kind of facts. Otherwise its just you drunk the bioware koolaid and little else.
Otherwise its just you drunk the bioware koolaid and little else.
Yes but you must admit, Bioware has made some awesomely tasty Kool-Aid over the past 12 years.
Cryptic? Not so much.
Bwahaahahahahah!!!! "Resembles"???
"Star Trek Online was officially launched on February 2nd, 2010. The game resembles an action-oriented MMORPG, with combat and features divided between Space environments and Ground environments during play.
Comments
I am confident that ToR will be an excellent game but because of all the hype, waiting time and so on there will be hell of a lot of people disappointed with ToR just the same as been with STO.
I personally am hoping ToR will be THE MMORPG. I am leaving STO in may tbh and going back to LoTRO because atm STO simply being Star Trek in name is not enough to keep me subbing, I have given them a few quid and that's enough for the time being.
Thing that kills STO mostly for me is that we are constantly bullsh*tted too by mainly Atari and all there PR blunders are really hurting STO, Best thing Cryptic could do is look for a company to buy out Atari for the rights of STO if that's at all possible.
At the end of the day there will always be doom-sayers that spout dis-information about STO because they simply want to see it fail cause it doesn't live up to there high standard and IMHO STO will live for quite sometime yet, How long, That depends on Atari/Cryptic. Really they should ditch whoever is pulling all these mindless PR stunts and start to fix existing bugs instead of spending there time adding pointless C-Store items that makes them look greedy and Desperate.
Season 1 and the Council really killed STO for me personally. Season 1 imho adds some nice stuff but its hardly a major content addition and the council Idea while nice in theory is going to blow up in there faces.
I will check back in several months when bored with LoTRO again
Best advice I could ever give anyone in any MMO is Just play the game and never visit the foums of said game unless you have played for quite some time and Know if you like or dislike it before the onslaught of TRIBBLE that the forums spews out. If you like the game then you should be safe, If you dislike it even a little bit then regular forum visits will kill the game completely for you.
what STO has. Besides those games were more expensive to make than STO.
I only know if SWTOR will need 1 mio subs, they will die. I cant believe that number also.
From my experience in the last 10 years the market changed totally. Most of the new MMO try to get the funds back with release they invested. The monthly fee and the microtransactions you need is to keep running a team and other costs. Thats why everyone pushed market and a hype. Just look back the last releases, really very few MMO raised the subs after release, the very very most lost after release 50-90 % of their subs in between 1-2 month after release. Thats why they push the products pre release to generate money from the hype. As long people walks in this trap with fun, nothing will change. For my part i can say, i wait now at least 1 Month after release to buy the game, because i dont think all i miss is trouble and a good game will be at market for years, so 1 more month doesnt matter, just need the patience
It will be good for the Asian gamers and American children.
Don't think I have ever met an American adult that played the FF MMO, at least none that played longer than a week.
Gotta say I loved FFVII but everything after that was pure BS in my opinion but I'm not a lover of the Asian style games tbh. FFVII was an exception IMHO.
200k? as was said in the thread earlier EVE has around 300k per server. There is a Western server and an Eastern server. EVE is hovering somewhere between 600k and 700k subs globally.
Heheheh /Agreed. I really would love to Beta it but I'm not that hopeful. I trust bioware over all other companies regardless if its there first MMO or not. I just know it will not be released until its polished and I know it will ooze quality from the start.
And that by all accounts no one else went after STO, no one else was interested.
I mean the 45 day patch used to imply that cardassians would get introduced. My guess is that's at least 6 months away. Romulans? Nah, this game won't exist by the time they get thrown in.
I'm one of the 5200 lifers I guess. One of the dumb ones who didn't immediately get a refund upon release. If you don't know why this game is already dead then you probably also can't understand why a movie like Clash of the Titans sucks TRIBBLE either. Some people get it, others don't. Some people like flashy moving things and are easily appeased, and others can see through the BS and tell what stolen, poorly implemented ideas look like.
Games with 100K subscribers have and still are surviving and thriving for nearly a decade.
You have no clue how many subscribers are needed or what the finances are or anything of the sort.
These kinds of garbage posts need to be removed from these forums so that good ideas/comments can be read without having to sift through the noise.
Very true but that was not always the case. EVE for a long time survived and THRIVED with under 300K subscriptions. In fact it thrived so well that it put up an Eastern server and bought a pen and paper gaming company. EVE did not start strong, it was actually small by todays standards. The reason it survived was it was focused and kept a serious budget.
I mean consider 100K subscriptions for a moment from a money point of view. Lets say an average of $8 per month income to average out year and life timers. This is still $800K per month gross, or over 8 million per year for a single title. Lets say a development team of 30 kept on the job, we will average their income to say $30K per year, after all they are likely working other projects as well to earn their pay so all their pay does not apply to STO. That is about 1 million a year or a little less for labor costs. Now factor in the costs for servers and hardware, a lot of which will be maintenance from here on and not as expensive.
No matter how you slice it with 100K subscriptions is is STUPID to believe a game cannot survive.
Well, a game like this, anyway.
STO is going to need a lot more than 100K people to keep this game going...
So your chart also states that Ultima Online has the same subscribers as Warhammer online...
As if I am to believe that...
Chart it a fake...
Guess, it might be a last ditch effort to voice out just before their subs expired and grab attention. If you are to drown, drag more people with you. Group think is the thing to do.
As for SW:TOR, being a Star wars enthusiast, I will try it. Since there's no lifetime sub over there, I guess I will wait till, bioware being a first timer for making a MMO, a few months after launch before taking the plunge. Its being ages, and they can't even start their closed beta testing stage...
Now common sense tells me, that many of those cancelled before that first payment was actually made. How many I have, no idea, but I do know that a good many did just that. Then you had the people that believed the orignal hype that season 1 was a major content patch and were willing to pay for that next month just to see how that turned out. How many of those cancelled their sub when they saw that it was all fluff, c-store stuff and a single STF. Quite a few if the forums are any indication.
Now of course this doesnt take into account people who bought new box sets in that time frame. But once again common sense tells me that it has not been a whole lot just by their dropping pirces to promote sells. Common sense also tells me that people who waited to buy this game to see what the reviews said, steered far away from it. Now you will say that the reviews are worthless in your opinion, but the fact is, that many do go by them. Good reviews would have sold lots of more boxes wether you want to admit it or not.
To add to my line of reasoning, you have the new charecter profile up and running. Over 300K is the number. Now I seriously doubt at this stage of developement, that every toon ever created in this game is not listed on there. So, if this is true, you have only this number of people who have ever created a toon. Take off, the number of people who have more than one toon created, and this number drops a staggering amount. Most people have two even if they are only playing one.
Of course, this does not make any of it true. But untill more facts come out, my numbers come out to way UNDER a 100k subscribers.
Cryptics own actions make me believe I am right, hence the idea of the council to increase public perception.
The quote was made on March 23rd 2010 by Jack Emmert COO of Cryptic... So to say it was made right after launch is well... Don't spread lies...
www.massively.com/.../cryptics-jack-emmert-no-plans-for-consoles-sto-over-100k-subs/
That sums it up perfectly. Nothing more than nonsense and noise. Hopefully they'll get to deleting this garbage today.
Which is exactly what I said, not long after launch. Less than 45 days. No lies here, the statement is legit. I never said right after launch so do not read into something that is not there:)
All I was getting at is that the Statement was made two weeks ago...
As of last May, they celebrated reaching the 300K (and growing) subscriber mark:
http://www.edge-online.com/news/eve-online-surpasses-300000-subscribers
Please provide a link to where you are getting this info.
Yea, before the latest billing cycle.
That number has dropped, guaranteed.
I have six - one of each branch, Fed and KDF.
Well not quite.
Victorian goth = clothing based on funeral/mourning garb of the victorian era (generally black)
Steampunk = victorian era clothing (all types and colors) based on a fictional world where they went 'hi-tech' with steam/analog level technology.
Quite different.
I am no more going to wear a pair of goggles on a derby like many steampunk men do as they are about to wear all black like I.
Bioware fanboy alert. 'Bioware can do no wrong' speech.
How many times have I heard that *chuckles*
None the less, this is their first MMO. I expect they will stumble along the way. How badly they stumble is up for debate. May be a hiccup.. may be a massive let down or something inbetween. But again I ask you to qualify your opinion with some kind of facts. Otherwise its just you drunk the bioware koolaid and little else.
SW:TOR is EA's biggest budget game ever...
it is too big to fail...
Didn't they say that about Waterworld the movie...
Or staying on PC gaming topic Daikatana or Deus Ex 2 are two examples off the top of my head?
*shrugs*
NOTHING is to big to fail.
DX2 failed? Or is it just an example of too mediocre for its budget? (I liked it, but the original was better)
Yes but you must admit, Bioware has made some awesomely tasty Kool-Aid over the past 12 years.
Cryptic? Not so much.
Bwahaahahahahah!!!! "Resembles"???
"Star Trek Online was officially launched on February 2nd, 2010. The game resembles an action-oriented MMORPG, with combat and features divided between Space environments and Ground environments during play.