It seems that the vocial minority that post on the forums are afarid that their pet peeve my be 'brushed' aside if you get feed back from the rest of the player base......to much fear imho.
I chuckled at this because of the truth within it.
I think that is a large part of the "at stake" aspect of this proposition... people who never had any tangible control feeling like they are going to lose that control. Personally I want to see a more diverse set of input and not only from people who are playing STO or have played STO. It looks like this is the start of getting that diversity of opinion.
Sorry Daelin, But I'm with Cost on this one, I've not seen polls, if any asking me what I would like in the game aside from that 1 poll which left NO room for additional comments on why you want these things,
As for "Already going to do that", Shouldn't they already be DOING it?, I was in beta we got a "play test" review survey every week or so, Why not have a survey every time the server comes back up from its weekly mainance
And they clearly have the ability to run polls and aren't doing it. Which suggests to me they don't really want everyone's feedback, they just want the PERCEPTION that they are listening to feedback. Why else have a viral marketing company suggest the members instead of allowing us no role at all in choosing them?
The release is extremely poorly written also. This isn't any sort of "council". Councils are elected. Call it what it really is, a handpicked PANEL.
I rarely ever post here - but on this topic I'll make an exception.
I'm sure it is with good intent - but a majority of STO players never visit these boards to avoid the negative feelings that develop from reading the posts.
Cryptic
1) What better place is there to provide feedback than right here on the Official STO Forums? IMHO this is supposed to be one community.
2) There are many ideas that could work well in the game and others that may not fit as well. YOU need to develop YOUR game. Gather the ideas that get posted here and go with what may be game improveing and fun for the players. We all know you can't please everyone and blind development can kill a playerbase very quickly.
3) An idea for consideration might be to have a brief but comprehensive survey that every active player will see between the log in and character select screen. This will allow each active account to participate once per survey and ensures all active players have a chance at providing you with an opinion of direction.
Players - we all have our own expectations from the game. If something isn't exactly how you want it consider that it might be exactly the way others do. I'm sure there are and will be many things that you do like and that's why you're still here.
Of course, "the sites and individuals" can grow, too. And certainly we'll be attempting other input extensions. Don't have them all planned out yet, but the more we hear from Star Trek fans and STO users, the better.
if the goal is to give them another outlet to get feedback to you, why use a third party? why not a simple feedack email or feedback form that members can use and you fill out upon cancelling?
however i don't even remotely like the idea of the company chasing after the customers they don't/can't have it will only lead to the expense of the customers you already have. Wasn't this lesson clear over the 60day free catastrophe?
It's obvious a few amount of people are angry about this. When I say a few, it's definitely a few so don't worry about them.
I personaly like the idea, I think it could go far with increasing communication between Cryptic and it's fans.
However
Thats a big However. You do not choose the people yourself. That shows favoritism, regardless of how you try to defend it.
These guysfrom STOked for example, don't know TRIBBLE, I'm sorry.
Heres what you do, you make a new email address and you tell everyone who wants to be apart of the council to email it. Then with this massive grouping of names, you choose 20 people at random. Those 20 new people will be the council, and they will have been chosen at random, thus keeping you out of harms way.
You will still recieve hate posts, but this time you won't be at fault.
Now, these 20 people, will need to be told not to hang their new "Status" over the others heads, or it will be stripped away. That will be the next step in earning the communitys trust in this matter.
The rest is up to how you want to do it.
Let me WARN you, if you let it go as it is now, you will regret it. If you plan to stick to your hard headed ways, and go through with these hand picked people, it will fail.
First, I'd like to say I'm VERY disappointed to read how so many people would oppose what is quite clearly an attempt to simply get more feedback. No exclusivity has been stated anywhere and I don't understand how so many, even after clarification after clarification, still believe that Cryptic is once again segmenting its community.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I'd like to ask a few questions:
What will be the responsibilities and expectations of council members? I am considering making a request for membership, but I want to know what I will be expected to do and, more specifically, how much time wil be required. Also, will members ethically be expected to communicate the wishes of their, for lack of a better term, "constituents"? Will they be able to propose and promote their own ideas? Or will both or either be acceptable?
Thanks for doing this. Other MMO companies have often used the "excuse" that forum members don't accurately represent the entire community. It's amazingly refreshing to see a company actually trying to do something about that instead of just stating it, and ignoring forum (and other) feedback.
I rarely ever post here - but on this topic I'll make an exception.
I'm sure it is with good intent - but a majority of STO players never visit these boards to avoid the negative feelings that develop from reading the posts.
Cryptic
1) What better place is there to provide feedback than right here on the Official STO Forums? IMHO this is supposed to be one community.
2) There are many ideas that could work well in the game and others that may not fit as well. YOU need to develop YOUR game. Gather the ideas that get posted here and go with what may be game improveing and fun for the players. We all know you can't please everyone and blind development can kill a playerbase very quickly.
3) An idea for consideration might be to have a brief but comprehensive survey that every active player will see between the log in and character select screen. This will allow each active account to participate once per survey and ensures all active players have a chance at providing you with an opinion of direction.
Players - we all have our own expectations from the game. If something isn't exactly how you want it consider that it might be exactly the way others do. I'm sure there are and will be many things that you do like and that's why you're still here.
Unless you want to make the survey mandatory for EVERY single person who logs in so that they can get to their characters, this does not work. People will ignore surveys.
The members are appointed by Cryptic. Why them? Apparently Cryptic gave them the appointment without any fan input. And I don't need them... want them... or even recognize them as an official representative of anything but themselves.
What qualifications do they have made them appointed? Fair question. And the answer better be more than what was already given because that amounts to nothing over "Fans we love".
Agree.
Also, I will lose a lot of respect for these fan sites if they ACCEPT the appointment. Some of them I might even vote for if we were allowed to, but anyone who actually agrees to be a part of this farce is going to pretty much lose my respect. And the respect of others, I'd imagine. It's a sellout, selling out your fellow players in order to be an "exalted fanboi".
How many polls do you all want? There are only so many issues that can be addressed in one poll, reasonably. Beyond that there are only so many people working on STO at any given time with only so many resources available to them at any given time that therefore limits the number or breadth of issues in development they can work on at any given time. Personally I think a new poll about every 3 or 4 months is reasonable given limitations of production.
Unless you want to make the survey mandatory for EVERY single person who logs in so that they can get to their characters, this does not work. People will ignore surveys.
if they choose to ignore the survey they choose not to be heard.
Also, I will lose a lot of respect for these fan sites if they ACCEPT the appointment. Some of them I might even vote for if we were allowed to, but anyone who actually agrees to be a part of this farce is going to pretty much lose my respect. And the respect of others, I'd imagine. It's a sellout, selling out your fellow players in order to be an "exalted fanboi".
Well, since i do not believe you and I have ever met, I don't think I have your respect, nor do I intend to really care if i lose it.
"The Star Trek Online Advisory Council is an informal group of Star Trek and gaming fans who have been tapped to provide input on the development of STO. Based on Earth in the Sol System, the Council will also become ambassadors for their readers, viewers and followers who want to provide suggestions and tips on how Star Trek Online's 25th century storyline might further evolve."
So...the Klingons have no voice in this..."Council"?
Cryptic didn't put much thought into Klingons from the start, being there only "to compliment the Federation", in other words, someone for the Feds to fight...
I see that will not change here, either.
I had hoped the number of request for more Klingon content might have made them think better of that idea.
Disappointing, very disappointing....but not unexpected.
In every Trek game being Klingon has been an uphill battle.
I was hoping STO would be different.
While I think this may be a good idea. I am dismayed and saddened at the way it was done. I am on the forums every day. Never have I seen a note about becoming a member of this council till now, If you wanted to do this it needed to be an open invitation to all and then you could have picked who you wanted.
Personally the way it was done is suspect. I think it needs to be immediately opened up to a fair competition. Anything else and this "council" is tainted. I can think of at least one person who should be on that council based on feedback work on the forums and that would be Shika the first poster in this fourm afte the OP.
Cryptic nice idea but this fanboi calls foul you blew it.
if they choose to ignore the survey they choose not to be heard.
That's fine. This is one more way that Cryptic is trying to reach out to people. If people don't want to participate in this council thing, they don't have to any more than they have to participate in the surveys, or forums. What I am seeing is much ado about nothing.
Do you all realize that the Star Trek Online Advisory Council is not literally individuals giving input? They are more or less data mining clearing houses looking to extend methods of inquiry. No one person will be giving input.
The members are appointed by Cryptic. Why them? Apparently Cryptic gave them the appointment without any fan input. And I don't need them... want them... or even recognize them as an official representative of anything but themselves.
What qualifications do they have made them appointed? Fair question. And the answer better be more than what was already given because that amounts to nothing over "Fans we love".
Un-elected state-appointed representation of the masses.
... why do we need to have a player representation...
I have nothing against the people that are in this "Council" right now, I even think some of the canidates are a good choice, but that doesn't change the fact, that the only represent a tiny fraction of the people playing STO.
Lets face it STO is aimed at casuals, most casual player don't care about other 3rd party community sites. They play the game, get most of there infos in game and maybe visit the forum once in a while lurking. For myself i know 2 of the 4 sites the others where blanks on my internet map.
Why don't you get feedback the same way you already did. -> via polls. Some users here already brought up ingame/launcher polls, i for mayself always wanted to see such a thing in a mmo.
And even with the announcement of the council, i don't think many players actually care, make a poll in one month and ask if people know the name of any member of the council. I would be suprised if even half of the people, that take part in this poll, know that there is a council.
Do you all realize that the Star Trek Online Advisory Council is not literally individuals giving input? They are more or less data mining clearing houses looking to extend methods of inquiry. No one person will be giving input.
You are asking for rational behavior on the STO forums.
Given that you are the one who said that you would lose respect for people who supported this, I would say that the onus of why things like this never work is on you not me.
I tried to explain this in my post. Your terminology and your approach are causing the mis-communication. The objectives and goals of this group should have been posted along with the named folks.
I understand. You want more details and we'll certainly provide more. This was just the quick announcement. Like many endeavors, it will grow, change and ultimately take a shape almost entirely governed by Star Trek and STO fans / players. In other words, it's malleable. We didn't formulate a specific terms of service or code of conduct, etc.
Mean what you say, say what you mean. Don't think like a Marcom person for bit, think like a gamer.
Oh, I spend entirely too much time gaming and I always have.
I actually started my career 10 years ago in editorial (Senior Editor at IGN and then a Senior Producer at Ziff-Davis where I helped launch 1UP.com). I also worked as a designer / writer while I simultaneously served as the marcom manager on Hellgate and Mythos. After that it was some work on Earth Eternal and then Cryptic for Champions and STO. So, definitely a gamer. Always have been and always will be.
And who says that everything has to be a democratic process? It really doesn't matter how they were picked or who they are...if you all want a say so in this then do what Ivan has said and join the counsel....otherwise quit your moaning about it. Sounds like a race....if you don't enter you can't win. So Enter already.
Unlike yourself, I like to be involved with the STO community and important events like this.
If someone is being voted on to a council to talk on behalf of the community and myself,
The community should choose who.
I know this concept is hard to understand but this is usually how these things work
Again when did we get asked to enter the race,Not sure what your definition of a race is but usually all the people involved have to know about the race, Think about it and how your analogy fails:D
I also don't have time for something like this but I have the time to be involved on the forums etc.
Next time form a real opinion kiddo and not some weak flame attempt
This whole idea is a breeding ground for elitism, period. Nothing good will come of this. If you want player input, the system must be operated in a fashion to the INTENT of the SOE correspondent system. Players nominate other players THEY see as knowledgeable community leaders, who then work with devs to pass on information the players want passed on, not what happens to be the agenda of the correspondent.
That's fine. This is one more way that Cryptic is trying to reach out to people. If people don't want to participate in this council thing, they don't have to any more than they have to participate in the surveys, or forums. What I am seeing is much ado about nothing.
Surveys will be much more representative than handpicked, unelected non-representatives (if we didn't choose you, you do NOT represent us).
Yes, some will choose not to participate. Which is why there should be rewards for doing so (like C-store points like was done with the one survey they did). But even apathy is feedback.
The surveys can be checked and augmented by real, factual analysis of what we are actually doing in game. What missions are played the most? Which missions are declined the most, etc.
This is a much better way to accomplish the stated goals than choosing a hand-picked group of suck-ups and claiming they are our "council". In essence, everyone who chooses to participate in the surveys are ALL "councilmen" so to speak. It is democratic, and it gives every player an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to be heard.
Unless you want to make the survey mandatory for EVERY single person who logs in so that they can get to their characters, this does not work. People will ignore surveys.
While I think this may be a good idea. I am dismayed and saddened at the way it was done. I am on the forums every day. Never have I seen a note about becoming a member of this council till now, If you wanted to do this it needed to be an open invitation to all and then you could have picked who you wanted.
Personally the way it was done is suspect. I think it needs to be immediately opened up to a fair competition. Anything else and this "council" is tainted. I can think of at least one person who should be on that council based on feedback work on the forums and that would be Shika the first poster in this fourm afte the OP.
Cryptic nice idea but this fanboi calls foul you blew it.
Comments
I chuckled at this because of the truth within it.
I think that is a large part of the "at stake" aspect of this proposition... people who never had any tangible control feeling like they are going to lose that control. Personally I want to see a more diverse set of input and not only from people who are playing STO or have played STO. It looks like this is the start of getting that diversity of opinion.
And they clearly have the ability to run polls and aren't doing it. Which suggests to me they don't really want everyone's feedback, they just want the PERCEPTION that they are listening to feedback. Why else have a viral marketing company suggest the members instead of allowing us no role at all in choosing them?
The release is extremely poorly written also. This isn't any sort of "council". Councils are elected. Call it what it really is, a handpicked PANEL.
I'm sure it is with good intent - but a majority of STO players never visit these boards to avoid the negative feelings that develop from reading the posts.
Cryptic
1) What better place is there to provide feedback than right here on the Official STO Forums? IMHO this is supposed to be one community.
2) There are many ideas that could work well in the game and others that may not fit as well. YOU need to develop YOUR game. Gather the ideas that get posted here and go with what may be game improveing and fun for the players. We all know you can't please everyone and blind development can kill a playerbase very quickly.
3) An idea for consideration might be to have a brief but comprehensive survey that every active player will see between the log in and character select screen. This will allow each active account to participate once per survey and ensures all active players have a chance at providing you with an opinion of direction.
Players - we all have our own expectations from the game. If something isn't exactly how you want it consider that it might be exactly the way others do. I'm sure there are and will be many things that you do like and that's why you're still here.
Chris, at STOked
if the goal is to give them another outlet to get feedback to you, why use a third party? why not a simple feedack email or feedback form that members can use and you fill out upon cancelling?
however i don't even remotely like the idea of the company chasing after the customers they don't/can't have it will only lead to the expense of the customers you already have. Wasn't this lesson clear over the 60day free catastrophe?
It's obvious a few amount of people are angry about this. When I say a few, it's definitely a few so don't worry about them.
I personaly like the idea, I think it could go far with increasing communication between Cryptic and it's fans.
However
Thats a big However. You do not choose the people yourself. That shows favoritism, regardless of how you try to defend it.
These guysfrom STOked for example, don't know TRIBBLE, I'm sorry.
Heres what you do, you make a new email address and you tell everyone who wants to be apart of the council to email it. Then with this massive grouping of names, you choose 20 people at random. Those 20 new people will be the council, and they will have been chosen at random, thus keeping you out of harms way.
You will still recieve hate posts, but this time you won't be at fault.
Now, these 20 people, will need to be told not to hang their new "Status" over the others heads, or it will be stripped away. That will be the next step in earning the communitys trust in this matter.
The rest is up to how you want to do it.
Let me WARN you, if you let it go as it is now, you will regret it. If you plan to stick to your hard headed ways, and go through with these hand picked people, it will fail.
Pick them at random, from the community.
Now that I have gotten that out of the way, I'd like to ask a few questions:
What will be the responsibilities and expectations of council members? I am considering making a request for membership, but I want to know what I will be expected to do and, more specifically, how much time wil be required. Also, will members ethically be expected to communicate the wishes of their, for lack of a better term, "constituents"? Will they be able to propose and promote their own ideas? Or will both or either be acceptable?
Thanks for doing this. Other MMO companies have often used the "excuse" that forum members don't accurately represent the entire community. It's amazingly refreshing to see a company actually trying to do something about that instead of just stating it, and ignoring forum (and other) feedback.
-Forjo
Unless you want to make the survey mandatory for EVERY single person who logs in so that they can get to their characters, this does not work. People will ignore surveys.
Agree.
Also, I will lose a lot of respect for these fan sites if they ACCEPT the appointment. Some of them I might even vote for if we were allowed to, but anyone who actually agrees to be a part of this farce is going to pretty much lose my respect. And the respect of others, I'd imagine. It's a sellout, selling out your fellow players in order to be an "exalted fanboi".
And yet there are 2 spots given to STOked by Cryptic.
And since this Chris guy said that -- if he did -- that shows he should be removed because he is out of touch with the people.
if they choose to ignore the survey they choose not to be heard.
Well, since i do not believe you and I have ever met, I don't think I have your respect, nor do I intend to really care if i lose it.
So...the Klingons have no voice in this..."Council"?
Cryptic didn't put much thought into Klingons from the start, being there only "to compliment the Federation", in other words, someone for the Feds to fight...
I see that will not change here, either.
I had hoped the number of request for more Klingon content might have made them think better of that idea.
Disappointing, very disappointing....but not unexpected.
In every Trek game being Klingon has been an uphill battle.
I was hoping STO would be different.
Personally the way it was done is suspect. I think it needs to be immediately opened up to a fair competition. Anything else and this "council" is tainted. I can think of at least one person who should be on that council based on feedback work on the forums and that would be Shika the first poster in this fourm afte the OP.
Cryptic nice idea but this fanboi calls foul you blew it.
That's fine. This is one more way that Cryptic is trying to reach out to people. If people don't want to participate in this council thing, they don't have to any more than they have to participate in the surveys, or forums. What I am seeing is much ado about nothing.
Un-elected state-appointed representation of the masses.
It's actually much worse than it sounds.
I have nothing against the people that are in this "Council" right now, I even think some of the canidates are a good choice, but that doesn't change the fact, that the only represent a tiny fraction of the people playing STO.
Lets face it STO is aimed at casuals, most casual player don't care about other 3rd party community sites. They play the game, get most of there infos in game and maybe visit the forum once in a while lurking. For myself i know 2 of the 4 sites the others where blanks on my internet map.
Why don't you get feedback the same way you already did. -> via polls. Some users here already brought up ingame/launcher polls, i for mayself always wanted to see such a thing in a mmo.
And even with the announcement of the council, i don't think many players actually care, make a poll in one month and ask if people know the name of any member of the council. I would be suprised if even half of the people, that take part in this poll, know that there is a council.
This is why these things never work.
You are asking for rational behavior on the STO forums.
Given that you are the one who said that you would lose respect for people who supported this, I would say that the onus of why things like this never work is on you not me.
Oh, I spend entirely too much time gaming and I always have.
I actually started my career 10 years ago in editorial (Senior Editor at IGN and then a Senior Producer at Ziff-Davis where I helped launch 1UP.com). I also worked as a designer / writer while I simultaneously served as the marcom manager on Hellgate and Mythos. After that it was some work on Earth Eternal and then Cryptic for Champions and STO. So, definitely a gamer. Always have been and always will be.
Unlike yourself, I like to be involved with the STO community and important events like this.
If someone is being voted on to a council to talk on behalf of the community and myself,
The community should choose who.
I know this concept is hard to understand but this is usually how these things work
Again when did we get asked to enter the race,Not sure what your definition of a race is but usually all the people involved have to know about the race, Think about it and how your analogy fails:D
I also don't have time for something like this but I have the time to be involved on the forums etc.
Next time form a real opinion kiddo and not some weak flame attempt
keep the good content coming
Just wait, next week it will be lack of replicators in Ten Forward.
Surveys will be much more representative than handpicked, unelected non-representatives (if we didn't choose you, you do NOT represent us).
Yes, some will choose not to participate. Which is why there should be rewards for doing so (like C-store points like was done with the one survey they did). But even apathy is feedback.
The surveys can be checked and augmented by real, factual analysis of what we are actually doing in game. What missions are played the most? Which missions are declined the most, etc.
This is a much better way to accomplish the stated goals than choosing a hand-picked group of suck-ups and claiming they are our "council". In essence, everyone who chooses to participate in the surveys are ALL "councilmen" so to speak. It is democratic, and it gives every player an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to be heard.
Please refer to point #3
I fully agree with you pal.