I can see that you're trying to build more community here but for the Love of Q - WHY didn't you approach ALL the Fleets instead of just dictating which Lords I am now a Serf under?
PS: If it's official why a gmail address? I was wondering it it was spam for a second or two.
It's the same guy who did the Facebook page for us, Mot the Barber. Effort is run by a social networking group our publishers at Atari employ called DKConnect.
Guys, what is up with all the left-field assumptions?
most likely a worry over whos ideas will stick while others hit dead ends
somthing along the lines of... Group A want this.. Group B are like "Stfu we want this"... group C are stuck in the middle .. non council peeps moaning at Group A & B, while Group D are chanting "Undine faction please".
But what if we want to know more from people who don't use the forums? What if we want to hear from Star Trek fans who haven't played STO or don't like STO? What if we want to hear from editorial? Should we not read their reviews until they post on our forums?
So you've created a new system. You have an Advisory Council and then there are the rest of us. I'm not sure what you were expecting the reaction for the general player base to be on this. I'm not seeing how those of us who aren't among "their readers, viewers and followers who want to provide suggestions and tips" would see this as a good thing since it pretty much doesn't mention us at all. To me it just feels like a wall has been raised between many of us and the development process and how the game would develop going forward.
Daft idea, in my opinion. To decide what 'the players want' by conferring with a small number of fans is a complete logical absurdity, even if the council can keep their egos in check. A simple poll, called up by the launcher, would allow Cryptic to sound out ideas, count the votes, and get a much more accurate view of the wishes of the gameplayers - these guys are all very active fans (not intended as a slur <g>) so that makes them unrepresentative of the majority of players for a start.
Horrible idea. Again, you are putting a layer of bureaucracy BETWEEN us and you. Now it's not enough to poke through the noise and convince YOU to listen, we have to convince someone else, who is NOT A PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPER and who isn't' accountable to us in any way (since we didn't choose them) first.
Which means that virtually no one will get listened to.
Again this is what always happens with "player councils" and it's why they add absolutely no value whatsoever to the actual players. Their only value is as PR for the publisher, who uses it as a crutch whenever there is controversy by claiming "we listen to our players, we have a council".
The first batch of participants was a starting place decided upon by a social networking firm that works for our folks at Atari. They gauged interest, received responses, and settled on a decent place to start the effort.
That is just not correct. Guys, where are all of these out-of-the-blue assumptions coming from?
Maybe because the only people who had any choice in the appointment of these Council members was you, Cryptic? YOU got choose who represent US.. and one of your choices advocates shutting down the Klingon side altogether and focusing purely on Federation content
Just want to point out, Ivan said they are going this route in addition to also listening on the forums, doing surveys, etc, etc. And if you feel like spouting conjecture that in the future they won't hold to this and just listen to the council, could I also have the next lotto numbers and the winner of next years Super Bowl? tyvm
Daft idea, in my opinion. To decide what 'the players want' by conferring with a small number of fans is a complete logical absurdity, even if the council can keep their egos in check. A simple poll, called up by the launcher, would allow Cryptic to sound out ideas, count the votes, and get a much more accurate view of the wishes of the gameplayers - these guys are all very active fans (not intended as a slur <g>) so that makes them unrepresentative of the majority of players for a start.
They know this. That's why they are evading the point. Several of us have pointed to this as the obvious foolproof way to get feedback.
What this tells me is that they don't WANT real data. They want instead to create what is nothing more than a PR tool designed to make us THINK they care about what we say, or want to give them cover to do what they want regardless of what we actually want.
Launchpad polls, in game polls, backed by statistical analysis of gameplay data is the only way to get REAL feedback. Sometimes players even lie on polls.
That is just not correct. Guys, where are all of these out-of-the-blue assumptions coming from?
In the absence of real information people will believe just about anything. In addition they draw conclusions about what you do say and similar programs they has seen in other games in the past.
It seems that a number of the objections are coming from the "SWG" Advisory system and people's experiences with it.
A good example is the advisory group in EVE On-line, at least as far as I have seen people don't seem to have much of an issue with how that group operates.
You may not intend it to go that way, but I;m also certain SoE thought it was a good idea at the time.
That is just not correct. Guys, where are all of these out-of-the-blue assumptions coming from?
i would gander the "out-of-the-blue" assumptions come from the fact that this idea was "out-of-the-blue" and not offered to the community as a whole, but rahter a decision based on unknown qualifications.
What about Star Trek fans who feel overwhelmed by the forums AND the Advisory Council?
Maybe you could hire a fortune teller or voodoo priest to get their input next?
Or, maybe we could find a better way of approaching them. Like, maybe we could speak with people who run Star Trek conventions, other Star Trek fan clubs, Star Trek exhibitions, etc. Maybe we're already doing exactly that.
Once Cryptic chooses this direction it means they aren't going to listen to anyone not "in the circle" so to speak, be it someone ticked off and ranting OR someone with a well constructed, well supported idea or argument.
I'm not in the circle, and yet, several of my feedback suggestions have been taken under consideration, and at least one is being worked on for possible release. I do not see harm in this. I don't know if it will help people, but I don't see any harm in this. I'm certainly not going to devote my time or life to participating in this council, and will continue to give my feedback via the forums. You did not really answer my question regarding which part of the community...you know, it really doesn't matter because I somehow doubt you'll actually want to tell me and are more interested in just ranting, raving, and attacking everything in sight.
You have stumbled into a serous hornets nest. I get the concept behind this action, and support it. Getting input from a verity of sources in addition to the forum, in addition to the polls you all plan on doing , in addition to what is seen in zone chat in-game, and from people other than current players of STO I think this game just got a better than fighting chance as attracting a large number of new players and an illustration of how far Cryptic is willing to go to get a necessary diversified perspective of what people think STO should be and to develop potentual routs to satisfy that expectation. Kudos on innovation.
There must have been some disconnect someplace for you to not have been made aware of the thread I started regarding the concept of player counsels. My criticism of this is you should have spoken with Phoxe or dstahl or at least done a forum search of terms that could relate to this idea BEFORE announcing it so you could have been prepared for the nerdrage you are now experiencing. Its done now, so we will have to deal with it.
I would advise looking at what I consider my postmortem reply in that thread. It is post #192 on page 20.
I am looking forward to seeing the other "prongs" of what I hope is a multi vector approach this initiative represents.
For those who cited my thread inferring there was an "overwhelming negative response", you need to go back and look at the people who posted in that thread. The only thing that was overwhelming was the number of responses given by a handful of people who were against the idea. I personally have not counted them but I do recall a specific group that represents a small minority of forum goers and not the community as a whole. Again with the hyperbole. y'all have to start to realize that frequency of individual posting in a thread does not make anything overwhelming except the number of posts by one group of individuals.
Maybe because the only people who had any choice in the appointment of these Council members was you, Cryptic? YOU got choose who represent US.. and one of your choices advocates shutting down the Klingon side altogether and focusing purely on Federation content
Really? Which one?
That shows you I have zero clue what they want and they have zero clue what I want as well.
The first batch of participants was a starting place decided upon by a social networking firm that works for our folks at Atari. They gauged interest, received responses, and settled on a decent place to start the effort.
So you are going to let a viral marketing firm choose our representatives?
These PR people don't even play the game!
This plan of yours is getting only worse the more you reveal of it!
I feel for you. It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes isn't it?
I also agree with a post a few back. The release is very badly written. It sounds like a very exclusive council that will not represent everyone. Some took it as if there word means nothing unless they get invited to the council or they know one of these reps.
You could have gone the fleet/house route instead. Letting players know that there will be a council for a rep from there fleet to be a part of. So info that each player cares about will be heard. Maybe it should be re-written or another explanation release should be posted.
Heh, at least somebody read my post. Ah well, back to killing darkspawn I guess.
Or, maybe we could find a better way of approaching them. Like, maybe we could speak with people who run Star Trek conventions, other Star Trek fan clubs, Star Trek exhibitions, etc. Maybe we're already doing exactly that.
Ivan, are you reading this thread in reverse? You are responding to older and older posts.
Maybe because the only people who had any choice in the appointment of these Council members was you, Cryptic? YOU got choose who represent US.. and one of your choices advocates shutting down the Klingon side altogether and focusing purely on Federation content
Sounds like someone's about ready to throw his tea overboard.
Just want to point out, Ivan said they are going this route in addition to also listening on the forums, doing surveys, etc, etc. And if you feel like spouting conjecture that in the future they won't hold to this and just listen to the council, could I also have the next lotto numbers and the winner of next years Super Bowl? tyvm
Next years Super Bowl winners will be...Newcastle United in a stunning upset.
How is it? On the internet you have anonymity, so if a person isn't comfortable posting on forums when their true identity isn't known, what makes you so sure they are going to feel comfortable talking with a person, even if that is electronically?
What makes us sure? Nothing. But, we dont need to be sure. We need to make the effort.
If they don't want to talk on the forums, the logical viewpoint is that they would also decline to talk to someone via a more private means.
And that means we shouldn't even try and engage them? I disagree completely. The bottom line I see is: Someone who is a Star Trek fan or a Star Trek Online fan who does not post on the forums is still reachable. We may be able to reach said fan this way. May being the operative word. If not, we'll try something else.
If you want to get the viewpoint of you playerbase you should have started with the polls and the newsletters that you previously mentioned before even considering forming a player advisory council. This should have been something down further down the line when other mediums let you down. Not from the getgo.
But... We did do exactly that. And we're going to do even more going forward.
Just want to point out, Ivan said they are going this route in addition to also listening on the forums, doing surveys, etc, etc. And if you feel like spouting conjecture that in the future they won't hold to this and just listen to the council, could I also have the next lotto numbers and the winner of next years Super Bowl? tyvm
I think that's getting jumped over, this is in addition to the forums. Another way to get to those that may dislike our forums, though I couldn't imagine why someone wouldn't like our forums, everyone's so rational and polite.
Or, maybe we could find a better way of approaching them. Like, maybe we could speak with people who run Star Trek conventions, other Star Trek fan clubs, Star Trek exhibitions, etc. Maybe we're already doing exactly that.
Why not ask us all as a whole, You've done polls before on the old website pre launch, why not pop up a weekly poll asking us our views on the lastest *Insert Development idea* here
Something that makes us feel you have a more invested interest of us beyond that of our wallets (as some people believe)
Why not ask us all as a whole, You've done polls before on the old website pre launch, why not pop up a weekly poll asking us our views on the lastest *Insert Development idea* here
Something that makes us feel you have a more invested interest of us beyond that of our wallets (as some people believe)
They are already going to to that. This is in ADDITION to surveys and other sources.
Comments
OMG - /facepalm
I can see that you're trying to build more community here but for the Love of Q - WHY didn't you approach ALL the Fleets instead of just dictating which Lords I am now a Serf under?
most likely a worry over whos ideas will stick while others hit dead ends
somthing along the lines of... Group A want this.. Group B are like "Stfu we want this"... group C are stuck in the middle .. non council peeps moaning at Group A & B, while Group D are chanting "Undine faction please".
Horrible idea. Again, you are putting a layer of bureaucracy BETWEEN us and you. Now it's not enough to poke through the noise and convince YOU to listen, we have to convince someone else, who is NOT A PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPER and who isn't' accountable to us in any way (since we didn't choose them) first.
Which means that virtually no one will get listened to.
Again this is what always happens with "player councils" and it's why they add absolutely no value whatsoever to the actual players. Their only value is as PR for the publisher, who uses it as a crutch whenever there is controversy by claiming "we listen to our players, we have a council".
No worries at all. Gives me an excuse to stop working on some Excel data that's been burning through my retinas.
Maybe because the only people who had any choice in the appointment of these Council members was you, Cryptic? YOU got choose who represent US.. and one of your choices advocates shutting down the Klingon side altogether and focusing purely on Federation content
They know this. That's why they are evading the point. Several of us have pointed to this as the obvious foolproof way to get feedback.
What this tells me is that they don't WANT real data. They want instead to create what is nothing more than a PR tool designed to make us THINK they care about what we say, or want to give them cover to do what they want regardless of what we actually want.
Launchpad polls, in game polls, backed by statistical analysis of gameplay data is the only way to get REAL feedback. Sometimes players even lie on polls.
In the absence of real information people will believe just about anything. In addition they draw conclusions about what you do say and similar programs they has seen in other games in the past.
It seems that a number of the objections are coming from the "SWG" Advisory system and people's experiences with it.
A good example is the advisory group in EVE On-line, at least as far as I have seen people don't seem to have much of an issue with how that group operates.
You may not intend it to go that way, but I;m also certain SoE thought it was a good idea at the time.
Not flaming, just trying to answer your question.
J.
i would gander the "out-of-the-blue" assumptions come from the fact that this idea was "out-of-the-blue" and not offered to the community as a whole, but rahter a decision based on unknown qualifications.
I'm not in the circle, and yet, several of my feedback suggestions have been taken under consideration, and at least one is being worked on for possible release. I do not see harm in this. I don't know if it will help people, but I don't see any harm in this. I'm certainly not going to devote my time or life to participating in this council, and will continue to give my feedback via the forums. You did not really answer my question regarding which part of the community...you know, it really doesn't matter because I somehow doubt you'll actually want to tell me and are more interested in just ranting, raving, and attacking everything in sight.
You have stumbled into a serous hornets nest. I get the concept behind this action, and support it. Getting input from a verity of sources in addition to the forum, in addition to the polls you all plan on doing , in addition to what is seen in zone chat in-game, and from people other than current players of STO I think this game just got a better than fighting chance as attracting a large number of new players and an illustration of how far Cryptic is willing to go to get a necessary diversified perspective of what people think STO should be and to develop potentual routs to satisfy that expectation. Kudos on innovation.
There must have been some disconnect someplace for you to not have been made aware of the thread I started regarding the concept of player counsels. My criticism of this is you should have spoken with Phoxe or dstahl or at least done a forum search of terms that could relate to this idea BEFORE announcing it so you could have been prepared for the nerdrage you are now experiencing. Its done now, so we will have to deal with it.
I would advise looking at what I consider my postmortem reply in that thread. It is post #192 on page 20.
I am looking forward to seeing the other "prongs" of what I hope is a multi vector approach this initiative represents.
For those who cited my thread inferring there was an "overwhelming negative response", you need to go back and look at the people who posted in that thread. The only thing that was overwhelming was the number of responses given by a handful of people who were against the idea. I personally have not counted them but I do recall a specific group that represents a small minority of forum goers and not the community as a whole. Again with the hyperbole. y'all have to start to realize that frequency of individual posting in a thread does not make anything overwhelming except the number of posts by one group of individuals.
Really? Which one?
That shows you I have zero clue what they want and they have zero clue what I want as well.
So you are going to let a viral marketing firm choose our representatives?
These PR people don't even play the game!
This plan of yours is getting only worse the more you reveal of it!
My vote on this is now not only NO but HELL NO!
Heh, at least somebody read my post.
Ivan, are you reading this thread in reverse? You are responding to older and older posts.
I support this completely. Get the rabid fan take on STO. That will help as well!
Sounds like someone's about ready to throw his tea overboard.
Next years Super Bowl winners will be...Newcastle United in a stunning upset.
And that means we shouldn't even try and engage them? I disagree completely. The bottom line I see is: Someone who is a Star Trek fan or a Star Trek Online fan who does not post on the forums is still reachable. We may be able to reach said fan this way. May being the operative word. If not, we'll try something else.
But... We did do exactly that. And we're going to do even more going forward.
I think that's getting jumped over, this is in addition to the forums. Another way to get to those that may dislike our forums, though I couldn't imagine why someone wouldn't like our forums, everyone's so rational and polite.
They already ARE reading the forums.
Why not ask us all as a whole, You've done polls before on the old website pre launch, why not pop up a weekly poll asking us our views on the lastest *Insert Development idea* here
Something that makes us feel you have a more invested interest of us beyond that of our wallets (as some people believe)
They are already going to to that. This is in ADDITION to surveys and other sources.