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The biggest threat facing all MMOs...
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Seems to be the player base.
Since I quit playing WoW(whos community provided me with endless hours of aggravation over the years), I've been trying a lot of different MMOs, and reading a lot of MMO reviews...both of games I was interested in and games that I probably would never try if I were paid on a monthly basis instead of the other way around.
Reading these reviews and having dealt with a lot of aggravation over the years in these games, I think the major reason(setting aside developer issues for then moment), is that the vast majority of MMO players would probably be better off playing a different type of game.
Almost every MMO review I have recently read points out a failure of the developers to basically PROVIDE FOR A LACK OF IMAGINATION ON THE PART OF THE PLAYER.
Now, MMOS developed from old school PnP RPGs...those games were more about what the PLAYER provided to a basic structure and ruleset. People used to have the common sense to realize that no matter how sophisticated the interface, design, or graphical representation of a game, the most important, and most satisfying aspect of play was how the PERSON provided the imaginative context that made the game exciting TO THAT INDIVIDUAL.
Now it is as if, if the developers don't get inside each persons head and provide them exactly what they need they feel like they've been ripped off! God forbid we use our imaginations to fill in any gaps, or have an adventurous feeling based on what WE bring to the game!
I am the last person to forget the fact that the MMO business model SUCKS overall(well all business models suck really but that's another issue entirely). But what is honestly worse for any MMO player is the fact that most of the community has no interest in engaging in what the genre is really about...using your mind and imagination to immerse yourself in a genre that interests you, and share your experience with other like minded peeps.
Honestly, I've never understood why people whos main concern is accumulating loot or strutting around being all about prestige don't just go play an FPS or some other genre where that stuff is the main preoccupation.
I'm sure a major factor is that developers have not been allowed the freedom to really translate the RPG ethos into a computer friendly format. Given the business model, the best they could figure was the loot chase game.
Kinda sad, but the good part is that as a community of people who like to play MMOs, we can change it on our end by remembering that fun isn't all about being superficially better than others in a video game...and that the best and most rewarding experience will always be creating your own fun from the BASIC TOOLS these games provide, and sharing that fun with other people who like to do the same thing.
Since I quit playing WoW(whos community provided me with endless hours of aggravation over the years), I've been trying a lot of different MMOs, and reading a lot of MMO reviews...both of games I was interested in and games that I probably would never try if I were paid on a monthly basis instead of the other way around.
Reading these reviews and having dealt with a lot of aggravation over the years in these games, I think the major reason(setting aside developer issues for then moment), is that the vast majority of MMO players would probably be better off playing a different type of game.
Almost every MMO review I have recently read points out a failure of the developers to basically PROVIDE FOR A LACK OF IMAGINATION ON THE PART OF THE PLAYER.
Now, MMOS developed from old school PnP RPGs...those games were more about what the PLAYER provided to a basic structure and ruleset. People used to have the common sense to realize that no matter how sophisticated the interface, design, or graphical representation of a game, the most important, and most satisfying aspect of play was how the PERSON provided the imaginative context that made the game exciting TO THAT INDIVIDUAL.
Now it is as if, if the developers don't get inside each persons head and provide them exactly what they need they feel like they've been ripped off! God forbid we use our imaginations to fill in any gaps, or have an adventurous feeling based on what WE bring to the game!
I am the last person to forget the fact that the MMO business model SUCKS overall(well all business models suck really but that's another issue entirely). But what is honestly worse for any MMO player is the fact that most of the community has no interest in engaging in what the genre is really about...using your mind and imagination to immerse yourself in a genre that interests you, and share your experience with other like minded peeps.
Honestly, I've never understood why people whos main concern is accumulating loot or strutting around being all about prestige don't just go play an FPS or some other genre where that stuff is the main preoccupation.
I'm sure a major factor is that developers have not been allowed the freedom to really translate the RPG ethos into a computer friendly format. Given the business model, the best they could figure was the loot chase game.
Kinda sad, but the good part is that as a community of people who like to play MMOs, we can change it on our end by remembering that fun isn't all about being superficially better than others in a video game...and that the best and most rewarding experience will always be creating your own fun from the BASIC TOOLS these games provide, and sharing that fun with other people who like to do the same thing.
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I'm sorry..but I read your title and thought to myself, "The biggest threat facing all MMOs...heh, it's the people."
Then I read your post and BAM! We have the same conclusion! I just got a kick out of that. But you're right.
The problem is people don't accept games for what they are, but instead demand that the game be what they want. Sadly, it is impossible for any company to create a game that is tailored to fit everyone who plays. People's likes and dislikes are much to varied. So, inevitably you have people who see an MMO and their imagination goes wild with glee at what COULD be. Then, the game comes out and they are faced with the harsh reality of what IS. That angers them. The game didn't live up to their high expectations (and no game ever will, really). But, people really really hate to admit they were wrong about something. It's human nature. So, obviously, the problem isn't with the player. NO! It can NOT be! Why, it must be the GAMES fault the player doesn't like it! And it's all downhill from there.
But anyway, yeah I agree. MMOs are either A.) ALL about the money. or B.) Part about the Money and partly about Making a game. Blizzard would be in B until maybe WoTLK. (My Opinion not fact) Thing is, very few MMO actually give tools to players. Instead they try to package a few things to one person and a few things to another and hope they will get along. Good games would give all players all tools and them make w/e experience they want. Also alot of MMO developers are deadset on doing the whole DPS-HEALER-TANK thing; They must think this worked in the past so why not keep making this setup.
To few developers are willing to make a game based on making the game as kickass and awesome as possible. They see MMO as the cash cows they have become and are afriad of letting go to make orginality. This is also why we have so many Sequels and not alot of new games.
The game I would want probably would not entertain me, but I get your concept, but anger is useless.
However the biggest point, is you never have to settle for what 'is' in anything. Although I believe people have the right to choose, as do I, so feel complete by just voicing my opinions, while not basing success by if they are agreed with.
Actually, that's why I'm enjoying STO so much. I can 'fill in the blanks' with my crew, tying together what in reality is a bunch of copy-cat missions into a storyline like an episode of Star Trek. Which makes the exploration missions especially interesting, since it gives a mystery to ponder in my mind. Sure, the mission might be to scan 5 random pieces of material, but if that isn't enough to set your imagination on fire... well, I feel sorry for your childhood.
WTF are you talking about? an MMO is not a genre its a type? WTF do you think a genre is? SCI FI is a "type" of TV program. FPS is a type of game. also MMO is not a sub type of RPG.. I didnt RP in eve-online? Yet again another muppet comparing everything to wow.
Genre can be used for anything that has a catagory. If someone says to me they love playing games i would ask, what genre? They would reply with stratergy or FPS. i wouldnt feel the need to correct them. Because genre is most commonly used with TV/films you feel that it can only be used in that context?
http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/bonusround/402?ch=1&sd=1
*rolleys*
MMOs are a category with various sub genres ... and those you can divide down even further into say sandbox and linear ... EVE certainly isnt an RPG in the classical sense, its more like a "space sim" with RPG elements(pretty much like X3 for example).
and most games these days dont really come RP heavy ... maybe LOTRO but thats about it.
the Term MMORPG comes from a time when the only MMOs available were RP games(UO for example)
you say we have to use our imagination to make the game more fun...
...hmmm
that is a good point but i think you got it wrong
you are talking about imaginating things, guess what i can do that without a PC game and even without a monthly fee. I did a Star Trek Forum based FanFic-Text RPG with a bunch of other Freaks and that was all about imagination.
STO gives me a chessboard with Items and Skills to play with and a few shiny Ships to push arround the Board.
If we could create things with our imagination "to bring something to the game", we would need MOD TOOLS... and a way to deliver those modded things, Ships, Chars, Items, Skills, UI's, Missions(!) etc. to the developer so Cryptic could, after proper testing, include the higher quality Mods into the MMO for everyone to see -> Content Problem solved.
We are restricted by what Cryptic gives us !
So if i want Voice Overs for the million Text Boxes (i know they can do it, just play the Mission with the Guradian of Forever, it works perfectly fine and makes the game WAY MORE EPIC!) we can only hope that Cryptic will get arround to do it at some point (at least for the important quest's and questgivers...)
If i want Auto Fire (for Phasers only)... well i can only imagine Autofire while hitting Spacebar all the time.
I can't imagine flying to Mars if my BO says "there is nothing on the Sensors captain"...
Don't get me wrong, i love the game so far, i just see a million things that could be done better and WOULD be done better if somebody actually cared about Quality instead of just Quantity (but it's an MMO and blah).
Ok, i guess i made my point.
Sadly. The players whined it was too hard, itw as nerfed. Now its pathetically easy for those of us who know how to play. At least i enjoy it, but still, There is -no- difficulty for me currently.
Closed Beta's last test was really good, it took effort to kill something your level. Now i can kill things +4 my level without losing shields? Or if i do, i still wont take much damage....
There is always second life I suppose.....as for the sound thing, I heard some VO's in an exploration mission during open beta. I know cryptic has plans to add in more and at some point re-add the voices for each of our Boffs which will be cool.
I will choose to call you a muppet for the purpose of this post as you seem to think this is ok to do to others...
RPG. Role Playing Game
This come from the Mother of all RPG's Dungeons & Dragons. You say Eve is not an RPG, your alt has stats, everything it/you do in the game is governed by those stats making it exactly the same mechanic as D&D.
Sorry to shatter your delusions of intelligence but you play an RPG just like the rest of us do.
hmm... can you have spaceships in second life?
Some of the requests for Bridge Crews and Bridge Combat are some great examples. Can you not just imagine what's going on on the bridge as you blaze away at enemy vessels? Why do you have to see it on your screen before you're happy. Do you think you won't miss the actual COMBAT while you're doinking around on your bridge playing house?
In America, I believe this is an issue becuase schools are cutting critical thought and imaginative play in favor of rote memorization for standardized tests. This doesn't bode well for MMOs, but it doesn't bode well for more important aspects of life either.
Eh, you can make a fake one, but it certainly won't fly.
In reply:
If it's a genre, it's a strongly-defined one. I argue that the biggest threat to MMO's are not the players, but the genre itself. It's becoming too formulaic. The players only follow their interests; while feeding their interests is nothing to fear, they're also nothing to take for granted at the same time.
MMO games are backing themselves into a corner, however. It's too littered with 'tropes' that follow from one game world to another (mind you some will never change... fire always opposes ice, etc.) Too many constructs that have one or two variances, but similar functions in the end.
Blending MMO with other genres of game (action, RTS titles, etc.) is one possible answer to the stagnation, as Cryptic has done with past and present offerings (do I even need to list them?) But a really unique title still evades most development teams without breaking the mold so much that no one will play it.
I'm not so much of a fan of this game from it's innovation. Gameplay-wise there's nothing new under the sun. But I am a fan of this game for it's storylines (which 80% of the non-repeating contacts are entertaining) and it's potential. I would like to see this game introduce a form of gameplay that is unique to the whole genre. Between space combat and ground combat engines, it has plenty of room with which to do so.
I hope some of the devs for STO have the courage to at least try in the next few years, instead of filling in the 'expected' gaps that other MMO's feature.
Oh and Bunnies, its always the bunnies
MMO's cause bad behavior because they turn people into nuts! When you cause abnormal thought patterns and mix them with the anonymity of the internet what do you expect?
If you truly care about RPG's go back to MUD's or some other much more fulfilling game that isn't an MMORPG. These type games only care about keeping people playing, plain and simple.
You can argue it's all business, but if there's a future MMO title, a persistent world that is far more immersive than the current crop of games, a title that would still let you create a character all your own but throw most other preconceptions of past MMORPG games out the window and require you to do something you didn't have to do before, a game that doesn't get so detailed that being unemployed is the only way to succeed, but still remains exciting... wouldn't you want to play it?
I'm not talking about trying to make a perfect game here, but "build a better mousetrap..." it really is that simple.
This mouse is retired.
I just hope someone is listening. It may be Cryptic, it may be someone else, it may be some 19 year old kid none of us see coming.
I think you hit the nail on the head and I couldn't agree more. The sad fact is that there are very few RPers in all too many of the RPG MMOs out there. None of the games seem to cater to the RPer but rather they seem to cater to the loot hording raider. Now do not get me wrong I have known many raiders who were excellent RPers as well but the vast majority are not. It is sad to see so very few RPers on STO as it is such a game that cries out for a strong RP community and has so much we can use to do so. The nice thing about STO so far is that Cryptic is NOT catering to the raiders so much. There is plenty of solo gaming and that I love. Far too many companies, I will name names (Sony, Blizzard, ect.) cater to the raiders. If you want good loot in their games you have to raid to even get the chance. Plus you can get almost no where in their games unless you are constantly grouped or raiding. But enough of that. I have ranted enough. :-P
The OP is correct. The game is what we make it. Lets start a real RP community on STO. Lets get organized and make the game better then the sum of its programming!
And I thank God I was blessed with parents and teachers who drove me to build on that creativity over the years.
While I think the basic message of your claim is true, I think it's a little more in-depth than "it's just the people..." Personally I think it's more due to the options in the Market nowadays...Sure Folks are going to want more from a Game than they did in the past cause in most cases you are asking them to quit their old Game, or pay and additional $15 a month on top of however many Subs they have on other Games...I think the decisions, and the reasons for being so demanding come down to the fact that MANY MMO Players already have Games they like...Sure they may be a bit bored of them...But they still like the Games...sometime a lot...And it's tough to see how a new Game, with a slew of initial flaws, is going to stack up to "ol' faithful." Even if you give it the benefit of the doubt some...
I know this happened to me personally with STO...I know it's not a bad Game...But I'm already paying for 3 MMO's I like MUCH better than this one...So why bother if it's not just right...And as far as making your own fun goes...I would respond by saying, for the individual, they have to believe there is fun to be made...Some will, and some won't...:cool:
Feed me...for I am a hungry guinea pig.
quoted for truth.
I don't buy a game and pay a subscription to depend on my own imagination. I do it to be entertained and challenged.
Maybe the OP needs to be playing a different sort of game. Meaning a sandbox ... which STO is not.
What one is this? Real Time Strategy ???
yeah its a soon to be rts I just got into beta for. Its kinda a nice break from the "wait for content release" mmo.