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No Death Penalty: There is no consensus

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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    slarus wrote: »
    What polls? I did not see anything in game, or got a phone call from Gallop or Rasmussen, or any organization.

    I am refering to the ones on this thread and others, one even asks what sort of DP you prefer.


    heh found one:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=127073



    29% (25) Current death penalty is fine
    15% (13) No death penalty at all is perfect
    1% (1) I want a softer death penalty than we have now


    53% (45) I want a harder death penalty than we have now


    :eek:


    33% (28) I want no death penalty at all
    40% (34) I want a DP in fleet battles
    23% (20) I want a DP in PvP
    59% (50) I want a DP in PvE
    48% (41) I want a DP in endgame raids
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Who are all these people who need a harsh DP in order to apply themselves?

    So when you play tennis with your friends, or play a racing game, or are stupid enough to challenge your grandmother to a game of Scrabble, you don't play competitively? You don't try your best unless there's some harsh penalty for losing?

    Yuck.

    I guess I can understand why that kind of person would need a certain kind of DP in a game. Personally, all I need to know is that I can lose, and that's enough for me to give it my all. Of course, it's difficult to put alot of effort into something when just a little effort will yield the same result...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DaiKami wrote: »

    I guess I can understand why that kind of person would need a certain kind of DP in a game. Personally, all I need to know is that I can lose, and that's enough for me to give it my all....

    Then you must support a DP cos without one you cannot lose.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I am refering to the ones on this thread and others, one even asks what sort of DP you prefer.


    heh found one:

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=127073



    29% (25) Current death penalty is fine
    15% (13) No death penalty at all is perfect
    1% (1) I want a softer death penalty than we have now


    53% (45) I want a harder death penalty than we have now

    Oh my god...your serious you think thats a valid poll? So you think these forums have a accurate sampling of the player base? That these polls are done in a scientific and accurate way?

    Thats so cute, So if I started a threads asking for pie pants all I would need is 2 out of 3 to agree and the devs should listen? thats funny.

    Ok on planet Earth most people know the forums are not even close to an accurate sampling but thanks for the laugh.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    slarus wrote: »
    Oh my god...your serious you think thats a valid poll? So you think these forums have a accurate sampling of the player base? That these polls are done in a scientific and accurate way?

    Thats so cute, So if I started a threads asking for pie pants all I would need is 2 out of 3 to agree and the devs should listen? thats funny.

    Ok on planet Earth most people know the forums are not even close to an accurate sampling but thanks for the laugh.

    It is the only measure we have right now and while im the first to say its way too limited im betting you would not be so neggy and dismissive about it if it supported your preferances for the game.

    Oh and if these forums dont reflect the player base what are you bothering to post on them?.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'd actually like the best of both worlds. Implement Hard Mode, with greater rewards and DP; leave the core game as is, then people can choose how they play. Sorry if this has been suggested, but 10 pages is a lot and I'm tired!
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It is the only measure we have right now and while im the first to say its way too limited im betting you would not be so neggy and dismissive about it if it supported your preferances for the game.

    Oh and if these forums dont reflect the player base what are you bothering to post on them?.

    As I've already stated (in this thread even I believe) The best way to tell if the majority of people in the game want a DP or not is to make a pop up window in game asking about DP. That is the best way to find out and should be done to get this question done and over with imo. If such is done then I will no longer argue the point anymore.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Izzy_Wish wrote:
    I'd actually like the best of both worlds. Implement Hard Mode, with greater rewards and DP; leave the core game as is, then people can choose how they play. Sorry if this has been suggested, but 10 pages is a lot and I'm tired!

    No greater rewards. It would force those that do not want to deal with a DP or a harder mode to play such modes just to compete with everyone else. Not everyone that plays wants to compete against others.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Seriously people why is this even that much of an issue?
    Most games create their own DP and people don't complain or talk about it at all.

    Baloney. People complained all the time after the X wipe during raid progression in WoW. God forbid there was a total raid wipe in EQ in a dangerous zone in and you had to go begging another guild to help recover bodies (was it Fear or Hate, I can't recall).
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DaiKami wrote: »
    Who are all these people who need a harsh DP in order to apply themselves?

    So when you play tennis with your friends, or play a racing game, or are stupid enough to challenge your grandmother to a game of Scrabble, you don't play competitively? You don't try your best unless there's some harsh penalty for losing?

    With things as they are now, there's no way to lose... You get blown up. You respawn in 15 seconds and rush right back to where you died, with the enemies still damaged/injured from your last attempt. You wail on them again and get blown up/killed again... Ah, but this time, you'll bet them because last time you damaged/hurt them bad enough that a brief phaser fight and a single torpedo will take them out...
    Yuck.

    Yuck is right... It's the epitome of dumbing down gameplay. At least in your tennis, racing or scrabble analogy, overconfidence can actually cause you to lose.

    I put forward that those who want no consequences for losing are not really here to play a game. I put forward that you are really here just to pass time. You are looking for the equivilant of Solitaire with a Star Trek skin... Uhm... No... Because in Solitaire, you can actually lose, and when you do you have to start over again...

    It is the possibility of actually losing that encourages us to strive for victory. In sports... In War... In Life. Take the risk of loss away and there is no reason to rise to any challenge at all...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    With things as they are now, there's no way to lose... You get blown up. You respawn in 15 seconds and rush right back to where you died, with the enemies still damaged/injured from your last attempt. You wail on them again and get blown up/killed again... Ah, but this time, you'll bet them because last time you damaged/hurt them bad enough that a brief phaser fight and a single torpedo will take them out...



    Yuck is right... It's the epitome of dumbing down gameplay. At least in your tennis, racing or scrabble analogy, overconfidence can actually cause you to lose.

    I put forward that those who want no consequences for losing are not really here to play a game. I put forward that you are really here just to pass time. You are looking for the equivilant of Solitaire with a Star Trek skin... Uhm... No... Because in Solitaire, you can actually lose, and when you do you have to start over again...

    It is the possibility of actually losing that encourages us to strive for victory. In sports... In War... In Life. Take the risk of loss away and there is no reason to rise to any challenge at all...

    What you "propose" is idiotic because it only takes into account YOUR point of view. In MY point of view just dying period is a loss. Sorry if thats not good enough for you. Sorry that you have to have someone impose something even harsher because you do not consider dying itself as a loss.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It is the only measure we have right now and while im the first to say its way too limited im betting you would not be so neggy and dismissive about it if it supported your preferances for the game.

    Oh and if these forums dont reflect the player base what are you bothering to post on them?.

    Umm yeah I would if you read my comments in that thread I said either way it goes, its pointless, its not a measure.

    It is the only thing people are doing but that does not make it a measure in any way shape or forum I don't care what way it goes.

    And I'll do you better http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=126279 Do you want a Death Penalty? YES or NO.

    82 No penalty, 73 Yes a Penalty, and 5 depends on what penalty and I'll give those to the yes side and say 78 yes a penalty.

    I don't care its not scientific it is not accurate I refute this even though my argument is winning.

    But lets look at your "poll" you cite.

    34% (30) The current death penalty is fine
    26% (23) I want a temporary debuff on death that wears off after a while (debuff / BO sickbay)

    Now I am assuming your 53 % is because EVERY point on there but one was what DP you want but the single highest answer was the current is fine.

    The poll is not accurate anymore then the one my side is winning, it is not even close to a measure it is not an accurate sample and does nothing but waste time of those taking it.

    But its cute you believe it is.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why do you assume a majority vote will decide? This isn't a democracy, it's a freaking game.
    Maybe you should spend more time playing the actual game rather than endlessly whining with other people on these forums about not wanting a slight DP.
    It's getting ridiculous.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why do you assume a majority vote will decide? This isn't a democracy, it's a freaking game.
    Maybe you should spend more time playing the actual game rather than endlessly whining with other people on these forums about not wanting a slight DP.
    It's getting ridiculous.

    could say the same for people whining for a death penalty
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why do you assume a majority vote will decide? This isn't a democracy, it's a freaking game.
    Maybe you should spend more time playing the actual game rather than endlessly whining with other people on these forums about not wanting a slight DP.
    It's getting ridiculous.

    No the point is the "polls" are not proving anything, you and I have ZERO way to prove one side a majority or not, especially based on postings in the forums.

    Hire a polling firm to get a scientific sampling and produce results or don't claim a majority.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why do you assume a majority vote will decide? This isn't a democracy, it's a freaking game.
    Maybe you should spend more time playing the actual game rather than endlessly whining with other people on these forums about not wanting a slight DP.
    It's getting ridiculous.

    No, not a whine post about other whine posts! This is an internet first!
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    could say the same for people whining for a death penalty
    You could. But I haven't seen too many of them obsessively commenting as much as that person I quoted.
    slarus wrote: »
    No the point is the "polls" are not proving anything, you and I have ZERO way to prove one side a majority or not, especially based on postings in the forums.

    Hire a polling firm to get a scientific sampling and produce results or don't claim a majority.

    When did I ever claim a majority...I said that it doesn't matter. Your little mission you've put yourself on isn't going to magically change everything.
    There's enough people in favor and against for it to be up to the developers.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Completely agree with OP, have a poll, and

    Make raid encounters so you cant respawn till either all the enemies in the pack you are fighting are dead, or until you are dead. if you all die, entire enemy pack respawns.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    a death penalty wouldn't be bad if implemented in a subtle way. for example, i wouldn't mind it if it was something as follows:
    space: the ship explodes with escape pods and maybe shuttles flying in all directions from the blast." wake up" in a sickbay, and in the introduction, a medical officer tells you that your crew made it and you are okay, then states his or her name and explains that you are on a medical ship, they are assigned to monitor your progress (or something), to provide rescue in the event you are critically damaged, provide medical relief and supplies to aid nearby fleets and planets. they are there to provide medical supplies and equipment whenever needed (contact them to show up during aid the planet missions, or to buy medical supplies, such as hypo sprays and such) then tells you to talk to admiral quinn on the viewscreen, who stats that he is glad you are ok, and hopes we learned from the mistake, but he would prefer that we not make a habit of losing ships. it is unfortunate that anything in your cargo bay was lost in the explosion (your inventory), with the exception for what you may have had on you when you jettisoned. (maybe on rare ioccasions you lose a bridge officer, and on some occasions a bridge officer looses some skill points to represent an injury and need of rehab). "we took the liberty of totally replacing your ship, complete with its old name, its consoles and weapons system enhancements, you will walk in and never know it was a different ship. (basically its the same ship, re spawned, just with a little story as to why). we even commissioned it with the same name. take care of her this time, we cant afford to keep spending resources building ships for you. your ship is alongside the (medship name) and ready for operation when you and your crew is up to it. would you like to rejoin the instance or would you prefer new orders? then you can choose.

    now to compensate a little for the loss of the bridge officer that may annoy some, perhaps the admiral recommissions a new ship for you, just like the new one, but with a "few enhancements" maybe a upgrade to your forward torpedo bays.
    that way there is a balance.. if you don't want to risk taking a loss, then you be careful, but when you do, yea its annoying, but you don't take a total loss

    now for ground combat, i suggested before that your bridge officers beam up and your doctor tells you that they survived and will be returned shortly, which they are. if you die, your bridge officers revive you, but if the whole team dies then you are either 1. beamed back to your ship, med bay, have the opportunity to restart the instance at the respawn point. or 2. a medical team beams down and revives you. now some maps might require you to take a doctor along because beaming up and down is not possible.

    now for the medical ship, they are a signal contact to buy materials too (i forgot to mention- its late and im tired lol) there are probably holes, but im sure with thought they could be worked out..

    for me the main motivator in this instance to avoid dying would be so i dont have to go through that process, and the second would be to avoid losing any inventory and the third would be to decrease the risk of losing an officer or maybe just a skill for one ( losing an officer does not have to be implemented.. its an idea among many)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    NO Death Penalty Please
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You could. But I haven't seen too many of them obsessively commenting as much as that person I quoted.

    ...you didn't quote anyone....
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    wfs5519 wrote: »
    a death penalty wouldn't be bad if implemented in a subtle way. for example, i wouldn't mind it if it was blah blah blah losing everything

    Because losing your entire inventory and a boff to boot is somehow less subtle than being hit over the head with a sledgehammer by a jacked-up Nausicaan howling "LEARN TO PLAY, HU-MON! HU-MON PLAY EVE MOAR!"
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm already on the fence about canceling my Lifetime Subscription due to all the issues with PvP and lack of a Klingon faction. Klingons are currently little more than minor PvP content for the Federation. A death penalty could very well push me over to the cancellation side of the fence, especially if it's based off suggestions by the pvp loot crowd or that dev who wants permanent BOff loss.

    Now they want to penalize us for getting killed in ground combat or ships blown up in space. Most of the time this happens due to lag, or when participating in PvP. Then again, they probably want to discourage PvP so they don't have to actually fix all the problems with the queues, unbalanced teams, etc, etc. After all, that's exactly what a death penalty will do is discourage PvP.

    Most of the threads I've read where folks asked for a death penalty have been those asking for it primarily in PvP, to either stop the "suicide runners" who purposely die to collect rewards faster, or those who want to loot everything they can from their victim. Those on the loot side of it are typically also those who, in every MMO, demand open world PvP so they can go gank newbs and lowbies whom they can easily win against, just so they can get all that free loot to sell, which is usually a lot more loot than they could earn in PvE or could buy via the PvP medals.

    So I say NO death penalty. Don't waste resources and man-hours on this when there;'s a ton of other glaring issues that need to be address, several of which weren't even touched in that "state of the game", which leads me to conclude that they aren't actually listening or reading the threads, but merely looking at thread titles and then only in any sub-forum other than the Klingon/PvP sub-forum.

    Edit: Come to think of it, I don't even know why I'm bothering to post this since they're probably not going to read it anyway.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'd really like to know, if those proposing a DP want it for themselves, or if they rather want it for other people...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    smeissl wrote: »
    I'd really like to know, if those proposing a DP want it for themselves, or if they rather want it for other people...

    Most of the ones who have answered this precise question say that they are unwilling to impose a voluntary death penalty on themselves; but instead want it forcibly imposed on everyone, especially people who do not want it.

    That's not exactly hypocrisy, but it does seem very wrong to me on a number of levels...
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree with OP

    Put in a death penalty and STO is over for me

    The Crstaline entity with the way it is now will never be attempted by any player if you put in a death penalty.

    All this does is turn this game into a forced grouping mmo -
    Cryptic this will be a fatal mistake if you do this.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Wulfbur wrote:
    I agree with OP

    Put in a death penalty and STO is over for me

    The Crstaline entity with the way it is now will never be attempted by any player if you put in a death penalty.

    All this does is turn this game into a forced grouping mmo -
    Cryptic this will be a fatal mistake if you do this.

    I wouldn't say fatal. But it would definately be a major mistake.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Because losing your entire inventory and a boff to boot is somehow less subtle than being hit over the head with a sledgehammer by a jacked-up Nausicaan howling "LEARN TO PLAY, HU-MON! HU-MON PLAY EVE MOAR!"

    oops sorry.. i wasnt clear about that.. what i meant more or less was creating a one, the other, or the other or none at all scenario.. a combination would be too much...

    you might survive with minor buruises along side your crew, who managed to salvage your cargo in the escape somehow

    what i was also intending was a sort of trade- off... like
    lose a bo and you are offered a new one with the same points equal to the lost bo's stats (so if you had any regrets about the traits you selected on that one.. you have the chance to correct it in this one

    or maybe you get a ship with an upgrade, sort-of enticing you to take another whack at the mission that killed you in the first place (already mentioned) but you lost some personal skill points in the process

    --there are a lot of things that can be implemented.
    but you dont want people killing themselves intentionally (which is almost what some do already- which is part of the reason for this[some are by accident--careless mistakes-I've done it lol]) to get bonuses, they hafta take a small loss, but a loss would always present an opportunity of some sort to balance or soften the loss a little. the real deterrent though is the risk, the chance you take.. you dont know what might turn out from it, and you have to go through seeing that doctor again and again and again. lets face it, nobody likes seeing the doctors office over and over and over and will avoid having accidents so they dont hafta go :p hahaha

    now Monthar does have a point that i agree with and would need to be worked out.. the deaths that happen to no fault of your own but mostly just game engine "glitches" -for lack of a better word-. you sit in sector space, and get a drink while you are traversing the map, and you come back and find that an AI player intercepted and killed you. or when you pop in to one and the enemies are right on top of you with no chance to escape.. the ones caused by lag.. all those are problems that would occur when DP is implemented.. and would really hafta be thought about first

    sadly i think the only solution would be to make it optional, which may be an undertaking in itself
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    (sorry accidental double post)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Most of the ones who have answered this precise question say that they are unwilling to impose a voluntary death penalty on themselves; but instead want it forcibly imposed on everyone, especially people who do not want it.

    That's not exactly hypocrisy, but it does seem very wrong to me on a number of levels...

    It is weak. That is all it is.
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