Target Subsystems

razar2380 · April 2023

The Tactical skills Target X Subsystem is not a good skill. They put beam and cannon skills on cooldown. Because of that, and the lack of benefit they offer, is there any way to either remove them, or make them worth using?

Since they come on the Science ships, is there any way to make them specific to Science ships, and they work like cruiser commands? Example, they are activated, and the ship with them active, and any around them will have a small chance to knock that subsystem offline when shooting.

It will:
1- Not lock out the beam and cannon skills.
2- Be specific to science ships.
3- Keep new players that don't know they should avoid those skills from picking them for Boff abilities.

And to keep it from somehow being overpowered, there can be a few seconds of immunity from other subsystem offline affects from those skills (which I think is already in the game if I remember correctly).

Thanks,
Razar.

crazedmike · April 2023

I would point out that with the Tholian Joromugo trait you effectively are able to turn Target Subsystems into FAW on steroids because you actually get a higher accuracy bonus from the trait than the penalty from FAW1. This trait can be used to either allow Science ships to get "Free FAW" since it won't require boff slots to proc the starship trait, or to turbocharge higher ranked subsystem targeting abilities by allowing them to affect all enemies instead of just one.

Trying to "dummy proof" the game doesn't sound like a sound strategy to me. Subsystem targetting has it's uses in certain builds and I don't think restricting it to a certain class of ship will help make it more useable or "noob friendly". If anything, by making it only specific to science ships you would likely encourage new players to use it more since "Only science ships can have it so it must be good for science ships to use!"

razar2380 · April 2023

crazedmike#4189 wrote: »

If anything, by making it only specific to science ships you would likely encourage new players to use it more since "Only science ships can have it so it must be good for science ships to use!"

Not is you read what my suggestion was for it. It wouldn't be a skill you activate, that would last a short period of time. My suggestion was making it something like the cruiser commands. Then it would be active as long as the player has it selected. It would then act as a passive to them and anyone around them. At the same time, it wouldn't put other energy weapon builds on cool down.

There are problems with Precision Multi-Targeting (the trait you were talking about). For 1, it requires using a ship trait slot, which there are a lot better traits that increase damage.

Second, the increase is 100 to accuracy. Not 100%. So while it will increase your chance to hit, it is still not 100% There are ways to increase that, if your build is suffering from that many misses. Though, on a Science ship, you shouldn't be having problems with accuracy, because you can use GW3. Even with decent Control Expertise, you can lock down almost any ships in the game that are fast.

Third issue, is that it comes on a gamble ship. Even if you don't go the most expensive route by gambling yourself to get it, the cost on the exchange is very high for a trait, that is surpassed by better traits you can get the same way.

Fourth issue with the trait is that it does nothing for cannon skills. However, Target Subsystems still puts cannon skills on cooldown. To be honest, the skill will be more useful for cannon skills than beams. Because then, you could run an Ensign ranked Target Subsystem, and a Lt. ranked Torp skill. Since cannons can't be used at Ensign rank. But I guess that might be why it doesn't activate cannon skills. If it did, it would be the only thing that would make it worth considering on a Science ship cannon build.

As for trying to "dummy proof" (your words by the way) the game, when there is a skill that doesn't have any good use, then why keep it as it is? I would rather it be changed to something useful. Sometimes, improving something in the game has more than 1 affect. It improves the game, as well as adds a little "dummy proof" as you called it.

The trait could also be changed. It can be adapted to where it will give the same accuracy increase, as well as a chance at subsystem offline to ships hit. Then it would be useful to both cannons and beams, while making Target Subsystems a Science Command ability.

Razar.

crazedmike · April 2023

I'm aware its +100 accuracy (not a percentage) but FAW1 gives a penalty of -50. That's still overcoming the penalty of FAW and adding accuracy so it is a straight up improvement upon slotting FAW1. Hell, if you want to get technical I'd argue it's potentially better than FAW3, since the damage difference between FAW1 and FAW3 is 10% for damage and 20 for accuracy. Which sounds better? 90% of normal damage with increased fire rate and accuracy penalty of 30, OR, 80% of normal damage, same fire rate as former AND you get a +50 Accuracy bonus.

You're also making a lot of assumptions about what kind of build Precision Multi Targetting is for. Assuming that an accuracy bonus is moot because "You can cast GW3" is not a valid argument against the starship trait.

Also, since the Joromugo is in the Mudds market one can't completely categorize it as a "gamble ship". Is it expensive? Sure. And what you're proposing will absolutely TRIBBLE off those of us who paid good money for a trait only to have it be rendered useless on all but science ships by turning it effectively into a cruiser command.

Nevermind I have issues with the notion of it being like a cruiser command. So what, science ships just get to drain everything for free? I can already tell you if they actually implemented your idea I'd be able to break entire maps with it. I can already strip the shields off of pretty much everything with this skill. Allow me to apply it to my weapons on a constant basis and I'll literally be able to lockdown everything permanently.

As for "trait doing nothing for cannon skills", do you expect all traits just to buff absolutely everything? If you're using cannons then subsystem targetting seems pretty counterintuitive to me since it's not a skill that's meant to increase damage. It is meant to incapacitate foes which is not a role for a cannon-wielding ship. I don't know why you would want to try and use subsystem targeting on a cannon build, so to want a buff from an already strong starship trait seems like grasping to me.

Maybe YOU haven't found a use for Subsystem Targeting but I have. One of the best tank/healer characters in the game uses that skill in conjunction with the trait and it works MARVELOUSLY. I also utilize it on a dedicated drain build that can keep an Elite Tac Cube shut down nearly permanently. It's not a useless skill, but it needs to be catered to in order to get good results out of it (Particularly DrainX skill).

razar2380 · April 2023

Most builds don't have such bad accuracy that -50 is going to be any issue. In fact, even on my budget builds there isn't a large enough difference to validate removing a trait that increase my damage output for a trait that adds such a small increase to accuracy. I really don't know of any builds that hurt that bad in accuracy that trading a better trait that does more damage for accuracy is worth it.

As for assumptions, there are none to make. The trait is pretty easy to understand. And the only reason I mentioned GW3 is because one of the most used Boff skills on Science ship is GW3. And it's ability to lock down ships' movements more than makes up for the slight loss in accuracy with FAW. But even if you are not using GW3 on a Science ship, you still shouldn't take as large of a hit in accuracy as you are making it out to be. I have never seen a build with that bad of accuracy. And don't try misquoting me. I am not saying that the trait doesn't give help with acc. I am just saying that it's not a huge as you are implying.

How will improving it make it useless on all science ships? Though, all science ship builds don't use the trait. I suggested making the trait give "the same accuracy increase, as well as a chance at subsystem offline to ships hit" when using FAW. It will allow the use of FAW 1, 2, and 3 to proc the trait. So instead of just getting FAW 1 with the increase of acc, you could use the others as well. And you said, "...trait only to have it be rendered useless on all but science ships" Nope.

"So what, science ships just get to drain everything for free?" At this point I don't know if you even read all of my original post. If you did, you would see that I mention that it could be set so that ships have a resistance to subsystems offline for a time after being hit by it once. That would make it so that you couldn't "break entire maps with it." I made sure to mention putting a restriction on how often a single ship could be hit by it, because of what Polaron beam arrays used to be able to do to ships when FAW used to be bugged, and calculated weapons' proc chance per shot. With FAW adding a 5th shot to each weapon, Polarons were able to lockdown all of a ships subsystems. It made killing large ships extremely easy. While weapons don't have a high enough proc, in my opinion, I wouldn't want to see something like that again. It did break maps. Not to mention Phasers also being able to knock subsystem after subsystem offline back to back because of how often they proc back then.

"As for "trait doing nothing for cannon skills", do you expect all traits just to buff absolutely everything?" LOL. No I don't. I was only mentioning another way it could be improved. "If you're using cannons then subsystem targetting seems pretty counterintuitive to me since it's not a skill that's meant to increase damage" Same for beams. That's why almost all high end beam builds, even for science ships, don't use it. In fact, most of them don't even use the trait, because there are other traits out there that are so much better to use on a science ship build. With how much damage beams can do, even budget builds don't have trouble with shields against almost any ship. And the very few instances they would, it's still not worth trading a much better trait for that one.

"I don't know why you would want to try and use subsystem targeting on a cannon build," The only reason you argue it should be used with beams is because of that trait. However, if the changes I suggest were made, it would make the trait better overall. And increase the damage that builds that already use it can do. Not to mention opening it up to other types of builds. I'm not saying it would be the best trait. But it would be a LOT better than it is now.

"I also utilize it on a dedicated drain build that can keep an Elite Tac Cube shut down nearly permanently." And you were just saying how being able to proc shutting down a subsystem that often would break maps. LOL.

I get that it can be used in a niche build. And I get that a lot of people like having their niche builds, and don't like anything that would no longer make it so special. However, I am making suggestions that would improve the game overall. A suggestion that would make Subsystem more useful, and also my suggestion about the trait would make it more useful as well.

Razar.

Target Subsystems

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