Thank you for posting my favorite starter skill tree. The skill tree for the Arbiter you linked is the same as the tactical template I've been using for several years as a base template for all sorts of builds.
I don't think using that skill tree or build has anything to do with Lobi consoles or Lockbox/Promo ships. It has worked fine for me using storyline and reputation stuff along with a few Zen store and event starship traits. I finally got my first Lobi consoles in early 2022.
I do think it's very timely and wise of you to mention "the journey" though as I believe that particular skill tree is part of the journey from a balanced skill tree to something more focused.
I'm also not going to disagree with a single thing you've said. I wasn't trying to imply they had to use Lobi or Lobi Ship Consoles; I know most don't start there, and why I showed a more Budget Build. My simple point was that it then eventually evolves there, if one is looking for Gold, or Diamond standing.
I clarified however that a focused tree can improve DPS so it's a bit more clear; I just assumed most would evolve to a more focus Skill selection, and why I showed the DPS League defaults overlaid. As it is a journey! I'd also agree with you if they revised the League Skill tree this year, it might also put at least 1 in Eng to Hull Capacity too!
I do think it's very timely and wise of you to mention "the journey" though as I believe that particular skill tree is part of the journey from a balanced skill tree to something more focused.
It was only part of the journey though. The other two parts were using cooldown reduction and easing the load of boff ability actuation via a keybind to increase focus. But this thread is about skill trees.
I also agree, and while I didn't focus on keybinds/hotkeys; it was only a very small bullet point yet it's closely related to DPS. It is a journey, I just hinted that indirectly by showing the contrast to DPS League from a Balanced Build, so people could evolve that way based on their preference, and desire.
Also Tyler's Duality is based upon Hull Capacity; even if Colony Deflector is Hull Modifier. Still does one use Precision (Rank 2), Advanced Targeting Systems (Rank 2), & Tyler's Duality (Rank 2) which is based upon Hull Capacity in combo with 1-2 others, I didn't focus on them as again it's Trait's; and people can see the various DPS League Ship Builds, to see what Traits, and Bridge Officer abilities are very good for each ship regardless! Those will help everyone, regardless what Skill choices they use...
I do think the ultimate clicky can be a potent thing in a team PvE environment.
I'm not entirely a believer in just taking two points into everything or all purpose builds. Focus works.
I don't think Tac Ultimate builds are squishy - the amount of regen available with a commonly used 2 piece reputation space set puts everything else we used to have to shame. There's an exchange space trait that gives about as much in damage resists as filling up all the engineering slots with neutronium alloys.
Yes I'm aware, like all things devil is in the details; but again that talks about Traits or SETs which I was trying to avoid. Still I do acknowledge the vast majority of the advise of DPS League is very solid! I also said most DPS probably don't even notice the squishier (less resistant builds) simply because they roast things so fast before they get hit; at least in all but a few cases.
By Ultimate clicky I presume your talking Epic Consoles; and yes that's why I thought it was a natural evolution, as one attempts to climb the standings.
▬▬▬▬♫♪♫♪♪▬▬▬▬▬▬♥▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬♦▬▬▬ PS: I know he meant the Ultimate 24+ Points in each tree, just a hint that some Epic consoles can help DPS considerably; and make-up for differences between a balanced, or more focused tree too.
Yes, though I said just Hull, didn't differentiate between Hull Capacity / Hull %; yet kind of implied it as % often refers to Hull Modifier. If ships don't say 0.9, 1.2, 1.375 or something else just listing Hull value it's usually 1.
Good catch! @westmetals that depends more on the Hull Modifier, still I think the league might think putting 1 into Hull Capacity today; for the trait were not supposed to talk about.
It just took a lot to put that prior note together; while I thought it was clear to have more try a bit more focused build; I know most don't start there. Anyways time for sleep...
I see going more balanced build, to a more focused build is something that occurs naturally for everyone.
That is a very nice way of putting things I think it's true.
Yet you can do very good DPS even with a more balanced build too.
Absolutely. Even exceptional DPS.
By Ultimate clicky I presume your talking Epic Consoles with the High Damage output, that's why I said it later evolves into seeking some of the Lobi/Lockbox/Promo ship Consoles or Traits.
The Ultimate clickly is what you get by having 24- 27 points into tactical part of the skill tree. The 27 point (full) version with all 3 unlocks to enable them for the team is very nice. Ability: Focused Frenzy
I wasn't suggesting to imply they had to use Lobi or Lobi Ship Consoles; I know most don't start there why I showed a more Budget Build. My simple point was that it then eventually evolves there, if one is looking for Gold, or Diamond standing.
For what's it worth I'm really enjoying the Lobi consoles I got earlier this year. It was part of my event reward. They do really improve your CrtH but aren't magic.
Since you named the channels will give a little bit extra explanation as to why they've been part of a journey.
Gold channel used to be 50K but a few years back went up to 80K. This was when I told myself it's time to sort a few things out instead of hoping I get another lucky parse which had brought me into the 50K version.
Fortunately I had a few very patient people give me some help over the years both in game and here. Emphasis. Very. Patient. as I am stubborn and set in my ways. It's tough to break old habits lol.
Had to work on my cooldowns, keybinds, and skill tree (and cram CrtH)
Several former 20-30K toons made it to 80K with difficulty at first, and then after some practice became more consistent and kept on going up to just over 130K (in a Raider of all things). After adding a Gagarin and Lobi consoles things kept on climbing and am at 155K or so at the moment with potential for a fair bit more based upon my piloting. I play on advanced. Diamond is 160K.
What is amazing is that there seems to be a point at which things really start to multiply rapidly. It's almost scary because I'm not a gamer but just a Star Trek fan and the channels aren't really important. The whole thing with the multiplication was completely unexpected.
Several former 20-30K toons made it to 80K with difficulty at first, and then after some practice became more consistent and kept on going up to just over 130K (in a Raider of all things). After adding a Gagarin and Lobi consoles things kept on climbing and am at 155K or so at the moment with potential for a fair bit more based upon my piloting. I play on advanced. Diamond is 160K.
Understand, I knew what Ultimate meant, it was just a innocent teaser... ...simply because some Epic consoles are very effective at DPS as well, not all need to be Lockbox/Lobi/Promo Ship either; just the larger % often are. Still the DPS League Ship Build Guides for Ship are very solid (metaphor) to improve your Ship, just following their Skills (Bridge Officer) abilities, and Trait's. Even if you don't use same Consoles or Weapons; and learn a little about keybinds/hotkeys as part of that journey too.
https://www.sto-league.com/ship-builds/
♦ Can help with DPS, but Exotic or Drain builds; and includes a variety of ships; following Bridge Officer skills see's biggest gains.
♠ And yes can even help identify ways to improve Tanking or Survivability too; based on Traits identified too.
Still glad I clarified, why I overlaid the DPS League (Guide) over the more Balanced Skill Tier; on earlier page. I assumed most eventually evolve to a more focused build on their journey. Yet as implied you can do Good DPS with a Balanced Build, to which you stated, "Absolutely. Even exceptional DPS."
But time for sleep, still hopefully this discussion helps a few on their journey. It was a good discussion! Have a good day!
Personally, I build characters around a concept. I'm not a minmax guy and my poor DPS numbers prove it. I like to start with a concept and build around that, so I GREATLY enjoy the freedoms that we get, when it comes to putting those points in how we do.
Some characters, most of mine maybe, go primarily for their own class. Rarely, since i'm not great with meta or numbers, I'll deviate to try and get more out of my DPS, like a tac getting more points for exotic particles or survivability but otherwise, they tend to stick with their school of training.
For some wanting to TRY a more focused build, I thought this took the best from the earlier example for Balanced Build on Page 1; it doesn't go all in to TAC with 27, does so a bit different that DPS LEAGUE to boost Projectiles. While Frenzied Reactions is just a 10% chance at PROC to reduce recharge timers of all abilities by -1 second; it may make a slight difference to some, Team Frenzy might be more preferred.
I prefer the bonus Shield Hardness skill, as it's not influenced by Shield Power.
Note: Sci could also move 3rd point out of Advanced Defensive Maneuvering, and buff Projectiles
fully as well. Also Redirected Armor Plating from the Renegade's Regret Mission, helps a lot even if
you don't have 1 point in Hull Plating.
I'd use your skill tree if the 2 points into hull restoration were moved to hull capacity. I'd also move a third point into projectiles. It'd make a fine skill tree for a mixed build (energy + torps + science).
What "they" do, per the comment on your photo, is to remove the skill points from EPS and long range targeting sensors when heavy science is called for as these skill points aren't needed for a pure exotic build that doesn't rely upon any energy weapon damage.
There's a savings of 5 skill points there for anybody wanting to do an exotic science build.
Sometimes I use something like this when wanting to do an energy build that utilizes a gravity well and EPG damage.
They're all part of a basic framework I usually start out with. The extra 7 points can go straight into tactical for energy weapon only builds and to other places for mixed builds.
I have lots of characters so each can have their own focus versus having them be "all purpose".
IMO there's nothing to be gained for going heavy on science with a ship that's always going to use beams or cannons and maybe a torpedo.
Good to know. Now, any reason why I can't post any new topics all of a sudden? I no longer see a "New Topic" button or anything in the forums.
The new forums are a mystery to me. I would like to mention despite hull cap being a primary choice for all the good things it does having a point into hull restoration does seem to come in handy. Most of my characters are spec'd this way but tbh there's some that aren't that don't seem to be missing it. All these things are a personal choice as to how you want to tune your character.
Oh I like some of those suggestions, though I don't go all in TAC with 27, I admit at least 25 in TAC makes sense. I revised the above based on a few suggestions--so thank you! SCI could also take 1 out of Defense and put into Projectiles as well.
I agree it makes sense for Sci with less Hull to have more, and a bit more Resistance; still this should make a good guide, for those wanting to try a more focused build. Some may prefer your suggestion as well.
That's a very nice revised skill tree you made complete with notations. I can see you indicated borrowing 1 pt each from EPS and long range targeting sensors to indicate a "transition" to more a more exotic science build. That can be nice way of doing things (step by step).
Full science builds might want to include drain infection as well if they need it.
It doesn't seem to matter what skill-tree builds I use.
When the game decides to send swarms of Dreadnaughts and ships twice the size of my own ship, or decides to zap my ship with the "5-4-3-2-1" special attack (I don't even know what it is, yet), then my ship is pretty much doomed and forced to respawn or I'm forced to quit that mission.
I've been playing this STO game a handful of weeks.
Apparently I've reached the "pay to win" part of the game, which sucks.
The balance, of one's ship versus one's opponents in STO, could use some serious re-programming.
If STO didn't have "story content", then it would hold little appeal for me.
I already play World of Warships, and that game is kicking STO's figurative stern in terms of ship balancing and scenario & mission balancing.
It doesn't seem to matter what skill-tree builds I use.
When the game decides to send swarms of Dreadnaughts and ships twice the size of my own ship, or decides to zap my ship with the "5-4-3-2-1" special attack (I don't even know what it is, yet), then my ship is pretty much doomed and forced to respawn or I'm forced to quit that mission.
I've been playing this STO game a handful of weeks.
Apparently I've reached the "pay to win" part of the game, which sucks.
The balance, of one's ship versus one's opponents in STO, could use some serious re-programming.
If STO didn't have "story content", then it would hold little appeal for me.
I already play World of Warships, and that game is kicking STO's figurative stern in terms of ship balancing and scenario & mission balancing.
The skill tree is only one small part of anything.
Ship build is more important then the skill tree.
Piloting is more important then either.
A few tips that may help you. By end game a lot of people are going to have very DPS dmg all the time heavy builds. I have builds with basically zero heals ect... but I have 12 years of XP and sure some paid traits ect.
Starting out I would suggest balanced builds. You only really need a few dmg skills... (Weapon buffs, attack patterns... Emergency power to weapons ect) Past that... focus on some heals and resistance skills. Good base game heals... Hazard emitters (hot heal + dmg resistance... also wipes annoying damage over time like plasma burns ect) Polarized hull... makes you immune to tractor beams and grants large resistance buff. Engi team... heals and clears engi debuffs (system disables ect). Sci team... heals shields and clears sci debuffs (things like scramble, subnuke cool down debuffs ect) Transfer shield strength... not as popular but its a shield heal over time and can help.
Distribute shields. This is an innate ability. Go into your keybind settings and look for distribute shields.. and bind it to a key. I use "q" so I can hit it while I pilot.
Brace for impact. Captain skill. Most new players don't use this. Its free... it gives you big Kinetic resist which is often what kill you vs NPCs. It does provide a small heal... but its the kinetic resist you want. If you loose shields cause something like a borg ship stripped them... hit BFI. (you can also get some standard duty officers from the exchange for low cost that provide added resistance to all dmg when you use BFI... very good starter duty officers)
Evasive maneuvers. Another free captain skill. This will help you move fast. Its a good escape when you are in trouble... sometimes its ok to run a little. To further this tip ALWAYS be moving. One mechanic in the game is Accuracy/Defense. To see how this works when you are in a social zone or in space anywhere... open your captain info and ship Status... scroll down to your defense number. Stop and look at it... then move forward and see what it is, and also try reversing and seeing what it is. The game calculates hits as acc/def... but as Acc over takes Def there is also overflow into Critical severity. So you never ever want to park and fire (unless you know your at no risk) Also on Accuracy and Defense... there are two space traits everyone gets for free (accurate and elusive) Accurate isn't a big deal for pve... but Elusive will give you a base +10 defense at all times no matter what. (this can greatly reduce the magnitude of crits that hit you) Some practical advice... slot elusive, stay moving... and if you need to "park" instead put your ship in reverse for 4-5s at a time to get defense bonus. (don't reverse for more then 5s cause it starts costing you ship power... just go forward a second then reverse again)
Power levels... can also be important. Weapon power to 100 (if you are using energy weapons) greatly increases your dmg output. Shield power effects both shield resistance, as well as shield regen. Engines effects speed... Aux power effects the strength of heals (mainly science based ones but also a few others like Temporal casual reversion). You can also key bind power setting shifts. The game gives us 4 modes. The 4th one is a "balance" setting... my suggesting is to go to balance and make it an aux power setting... jack up the aux power in that mode. A hazards popped at full aux as an example as apposed to 25 aux power will heal and provide 4-5x the resistance. To see what is effected by power... again go to a space map and look at the tool tips on your skills and move power levels to see the effect.
The game calculates hits as acc/def... but as Acc over takes Def there is also overflow into Critical severity. So you never ever want to park and fire (unless you know your at no risk) Also on Accuracy and Defense... there are two space traits everyone gets for free (accurate and elusive) Accurate isn't a big deal for pve... but Elusive will give you a base +10 defense at all times no matter what. (this can greatly reduce the magnitude of crits that hit you) Some practical advice... slot elusive, stay moving... and if you need to "park" instead put your ship in reverse for 4-5s at a time to get defense bonus. (don't reverse for more then 5s cause it starts costing you ship power... just go forward a second then reverse again)
To clarify, this is actually slightly flawed.
The base to-hit in STO is 100%. The game then subtracts the target's Defense rating, then adds the shooter's Accuracy. A result below 100 (meaning Defense is higher than Accuracy) will result in (some) misses. A result above 100 will guarantee hits and generate a small temporary bonus to both Critical Chance and Critical Severity.
And yes, Defense is partially a function of speed.
Just want to make sure new play knows to move.
To be super accurate...
To hit;
100/(100 + ([Def] - [Acc]))
Acc overflow;
-100/(100+([Attackers Acc]-[Targets Defense]))+1
I believe the max is something around 12% crth and 50% crtd from overflow at the crazy end... but 4-5/20-30 are pretty common for players vs NPCs if you have 50+ acc. (which is why most people just concentrate on stacking CRTD for pve its far more efficient)
NPCs granted aren't going to have massive accuracy numbers to overflow... but you don't need to help them sitting still with nothing boosting your defense like the basic elusive space trait and having a negative defense value. (The ghost borg torpedos typically new players complain about are caused by overflow. Player parks has no traits/gear with +defense, combined with almost zero kinetic resistance, NPC torp ends up in overflow... and a torp that was coded to hurt with no crit, crits and one shots them.)
Stacking accuracy yourself is not a great way to get high crit no... But its not nothing either, and their are things that directly debuff target defense. (but anyway beyond the scope of making it less likely to die to NPC torp)
It doesn't seem to matter what skill-tree builds I use.
When the game decides to send swarms of Dreadnaughts and ships twice the size of my own ship, or decides to zap my ship with the "5-4-3-2-1" special attack (I don't even know what it is, yet), then my ship is pretty much doomed and forced to respawn or I'm forced to quit that mission.
I've been playing this STO game a handful of weeks...
The skill tree is only one small part of anything.
To everyone who has been making an effort to help, thanks for the effort.
I think some of you are missing the forest by attempting to look at the trees.
Star Trek from the 1960's often only had one opposing ship (Klingon, Andorian, Tranya-drinking mega-ship and etc.) in an episode.
Budget reasons? Maybe.
In STO, it is routine to sail one player ship into a swarm of six or more opposing ships.
Often those opposing ships are bigger/stronger/faster.
I have tried a variety of ship types as a free-to-play account.
Some because of getting a promotion, some purchased with dilithium.
Birds-of-Prey, Warbirds, Cruisers, Heavy/Battlecruisers.
Klingon, Federation, Romulan.
I get the impression that some people have forgotten what it is like to be new to a game.
Also, I've played other Star Trek computer games which used the Amarillo Design Bureau principles of play and I did do well with those.
It's not like I can't play a game or understand game principles.
In comparison to other games, STO space combat is clumsy, not user-friendly, and poorly paced.
And it does have a "balance" problem, in my opinion.
If you want me to give your opinions some weight, don't forget to give my opinion some weight, too.
To everyone who has been making an effort to help, thanks for the effort.
I think some of you are missing the forest by attempting to look at the trees.
Star Trek from the 1960's often only had one opposing ship (Klingon, Andorian, Tranya-drinking mega-ship and etc.) in an episode.
Budget reasons? Maybe.
In STO, it is routine to sail one player ship into a swarm of six or more opposing ships.
Often those opposing ships are bigger/stronger/faster.
I have tried a variety of ship types as a free-to-play account.
Some because of getting a promotion, some purchased with dilithium.
Birds-of-Prey, Warbirds, Cruisers, Heavy/Battlecruisers.
Klingon, Federation, Romulan.
I get the impression that some people have forgotten what it is like to be new to a game.
Also, I've played other Star Trek computer games which used the Amarillo Design Bureau principles of play and I did do well with those.
It's not like I can't play a game or understand game principles.
In comparison to other games, STO space combat is clumsy, not user-friendly, and poorly paced.
And it does have a "balance" problem, in my opinion.
If you want me to give your opinions some weight, don't forget to give my opinion some weight, too.
STO is a MMO.
Yes it is a star trek game... no it is not a board game, nor is it like older Star Trek simulator type games.
I know you are getting a ton of advice, and I am not saying any of it is wrong or bad or some is good ect.
However you have to understand this is a 12 year old MMO. I would not as a new player try and use builds or even skill trees from the DPS league type sources. Its not that that is bad advice, its the opposite its great advice for people that know the game. Also that have been playing long enough to have a few perks... and access to ship traits and personal space traits that make self heals/resiss a little less required.
As an example... one issue with using the DPS league skill tree you posted as a completely NEW player. You have nothing at all speced into hull resistance. The game doesn't give you any of that for free as a new player. As a 12 year old player with endeavor points you will get more then what the skill tree can provide by default.
To everyone who has been making an effort to help, thanks for the effort.
I think some of you are missing the forest by attempting to look at the trees.
Star Trek from the 1960's often only had one opposing ship (Klingon, Andorian, Tranya-drinking mega-ship and etc.) in an episode.
Budget reasons? Maybe.
In STO, it is routine to sail one player ship into a swarm of six or more opposing ships.
Often those opposing ships are bigger/stronger/faster.
I have tried a variety of ship types as a free-to-play account.
Some because of getting a promotion, some purchased with dilithium.
Birds-of-Prey, Warbirds, Cruisers, Heavy/Battlecruisers.
Klingon, Federation, Romulan.
I get the impression that some people have forgotten what it is like to be new to a game.
Also, I've played other Star Trek computer games which used the Amarillo Design Bureau principles of play and I did do well with those.
It's not like I can't play a game or understand game principles.
In comparison to other games, STO space combat is clumsy, not user-friendly, and poorly paced.
And it does have a "balance" problem, in my opinion.
If you want me to give your opinions some weight, don't forget to give my opinion some weight, too.
The skill tree you've posted might be out of date.
As it was said above though... piloting > build > skill tree.
It's not unheard of to hear concerns from newer players who've recently reached max level.
Sometimes other parts of how a ship is set up need to be looked at as well.
I would not as a new player try and use builds or even skill trees from the DPS league type sources. Its not that that is bad advice, its the opposite its great advice for people that know the game. Also that have been playing long enough to have a few perks... and access to ship traits and personal space traits that make self heals/resiss a little less required.
The DPS Skill Tree is perfectly fine for new or veteran players. As stated before though, it's one of many parts of a build and just copying a skill tree and expecting to be invincible is unrealistic for any player of any skill level. There is plenty of easily obtainable gear from missions and reputations that will, in combination with a good skill tree, a sensible build, and reasonable piloting result in even a new player being able to easily handle game content played on normal difficulty.
Learning it might not be easy, it might not be as easy as just copying something from a web site and calling it good, but it's not that difficult either if you're playing on normal difficulty. The STO League site also provides example starter builds using reputation and mission reward gear and a discord channel for those that need more advice.
You can use whatever skill tree you want, if you're not using a sensible build none of it matters. The league resources are there to help, they're optional.. use them if you wish, but if you don't find success it isn't because the advice was bad, the issue is that it's not being correctly applied.
I would not as a new player try and use builds or even skill trees from the DPS league type sources. Its not that that is bad advice, its the opposite its great advice for people that know the game. Also that have been playing long enough to have a few perks... and access to ship traits and personal space traits that make self heals/resiss a little less required.
The DPS Skill Tree is perfectly fine for new or veteran players. As stated before though, it's one of many parts of a build and just copying a skill tree and expecting to be invincible is unrealistic for any player of any skill level. There is plenty of easily obtainable gear from missions and reputations that will, in combination with a good skill tree, a sensible build, and reasonable piloting result in even a new player being able to easily handle game content played on normal difficulty.
Learning it might not be easy, it might not be as easy as just copying something from a web site and calling it good, but it's not that difficult either if you're playing on normal difficulty. The STO League site also provides example starter builds using reputation and mission reward gear and a discord channel for those that need more advice.
You can use whatever skill tree you want, if you're not using a sensible build none of it matters. The league resources are there to help, they're optional.. use them if you wish, but if you don't find success it isn't because the advice was bad, the issue is that it's not being correctly applied.
Agreed, and I had no intention to throw any shade.
The DPS league folks are all very willing to help each other, and players of all xp get better. I was only really intending to speak to the tendency for new players in any MMO not just STO, to find the "bestest of the best" DPS builds, copy them as close as they can and go. Of course being a new player its very hard to copy builds using years of collected bits ect.
wolfswetpaws#2250 if your still paying attention to this thread. No one is discounting your experience coming into the game.... most of us didn't get the game we had in our heads when we came to STO no matter what year we started playing. The game we have though isn't half bad... its fun, and sure can be difficult at times, too easy others. As Sorrows just said there are a few good places to get more info on all the bits. The game has a lot of systems, sure they can be overwhelming if your brand new... returning players find new systems they have to get their heads around as well. Another in game chat channel to join... NoP Public Service. Its not a build help channel its a channel for people giving people free invites to their fleet holdings and such things. Having said that its got a lot of long time players hanging out there helping people out with stuff... and often people there will ask questions as you go.
Agreed, and I had no intention to throw any shade.
The DPS league folks are all very willing to help each other, and players of all xp get better. I was only really intending to speak to the tendency for new players in any MMO not just STO, to find the "bestest of the best" DPS builds, copy them as close as they can and go. Of course being a new player its very hard to copy builds using years of collected bits ect.
Fair point, and I do agree that newer players are kind of 'up against it' when it comes to gear. There are so many good items in this game that are staples of DPS oriented builds that are either no longer available, or only available at a prohibitive cost.
The league tries to make clear that builds posted are suggestions, we usually encourage people to alter to their personal taste, but we both know that many will do exactly as you said and just copy the build as close as possible without understanding it.. then they head out, get smashed and blame the suggestion.
I am not saying the OP is doing this, I give him the benefit of the doubt, I'll just say it happens kind of a lot.
OP, if you have specific build questions for a specific ship.. let us know.. maybe we can try and help you iron out an effective build to go with your new skill tree. There are still some pretty solid gear options from missions, reputations, and fleet stores. While quite a few 'top of the line' items might not be a viable option, the good news is that if you're just trying to do the game content in normal mode, none of the high dollar options are required at all. I am sure we can find you options.
wolfswetpaws#2250 if your still paying attention to this thread. No one is discounting your experience coming into the game.... most of us didn't get the game we had in our heads when we came to STO no matter what year we started playing. The game we have though isn't half bad... its fun, and sure can be difficult at times, too easy others. As Sorrows just said there are a few good places to get more info on all the bits. The game has a lot of systems, sure they can be overwhelming if your brand new... returning players find new systems they have to get their heads around as well. Another in game chat channel to join... NoP Public Service. Its not a build help channel its a channel for people giving people free invites to their fleet holdings and such things. Having said that its got a lot of long time players hanging out there helping people out with stuff... and often people there will ask questions as you go.
I revisited this topic, today.
The game limits players' access to gear/equipment/weapons/consumables in the faction stores & shipyards (the limit being Mk-IX level when a player's character reaches the requisite rank).
Nothing purchased from an in-game vendor is higher than Mk-9 level, to my knowledge, so far.
And items dropped by opponents during missions/patrols/battles are inconsistent and sometimes incompatible.
I've since discovered, via a fellow World of Warships player, the Exchange.
In the Exchange a person can access a wider variety of items & personnel for their ship configurations & crew rosters.
I've also been learning the Duty Officer system, the Admiralty System and the Reputation System.
Most of my characters aren't sufficiently ready to be "crafting" items for use, yet.
It's expensive (credits/dilthium & crafting materials and research points) at the moment.
But, I've experimented with a few items, just to get the feel of it and make a specific console or to upgrade something.
Often it is easier to find what I want, or what might work 'well-enough', by visiting the Exchange.
I've outfitted a couple of character's ships & crews with Mark-12 level stuff.
And I'm fine-tuning their Duty Officer rosters to increase the success rate of performing Duty Officer assignments.
This is still a work in progress.
But, I've found some reference material and have made some personal notes regarding which "traits" benefit a given type of Duty Officer for certain type of assignments.
I've created an alphabetical list variation, with some personal notes, as a simple text file.
This way one can view one's roster by job category instead of by department.
It's still a "work in progress", but I've attached it to this post as a way to share what I've learned with the STO community.
For whatever reason, the forum's system put everything in the above post ^^^^ inside a 'wrapper'.
Here's the copy/paste of it, for easier viewing.
seaofsorrows wrote: »
husanakx wrote: »
wolfswetpaws#2250 if your still paying attention to this thread. No one is discounting your experience coming into the game.... most of us didn't get the game we had in our heads when we came to STO no matter what year we started playing. The game we have though isn't half bad... its fun, and sure can be difficult at times, too easy others. As Sorrows just said there are a few good places to get more info on all the bits. The game has a lot of systems, sure they can be overwhelming if your brand new... returning players find new systems they have to get their heads around as well. Another in game chat channel to join... NoP Public Service. Its not a build help channel its a channel for people giving people free invites to their fleet holdings and such things. Having said that its got a lot of long time players hanging out there helping people out with stuff... and often people there will ask questions as you go.
I revisited this topic, today.
The game limits players' access to gear/equipment/weapons/consumables in the faction stores & shipyards (the limit being Mk-IX level when a player's character reaches the requisite rank).
Nothing purchased from an in-game vendor is higher than Mk-9 level, to my knowledge, so far.
And items dropped by opponents during missions/patrols/battles are inconsistent and sometimes incompatible.
I've since discovered, via a fellow World of Warships player, the Exchange.
In the Exchange a person can access a wider variety of items & personnel for their ship configurations & crew rosters.
I've also been learning the Duty Officer system, the Admiralty System and the Reputation System.
Most of my characters aren't sufficiently ready to be "crafting" items for use, yet.
It's expensive (credits/dilthium & crafting materials and research points) at the moment.
But, I've experimented with a few items, just to get the feel of it and make a specific console or to upgrade something.
Often it is easier to find what I want, or what might work 'well-enough', by visiting the Exchange.
I've outfitted a couple of character's ships & crews with Mark-12 level stuff.
And I'm fine-tuning their Duty Officer rosters to increase the success rate of performing Duty Officer assignments.
This is still a work in progress.
But, I've found some reference material and have made some personal notes regarding which "traits" benefit a given type of Duty Officer for certain type of assignments.
I've created an alphabetical list variation, with some personal notes, as a simple text file.
This way one can view one's roster by job category instead of by department.
It's still a "work in progress", but I've attached it to this post as a way to share what I've learned with the STO community.
i have a habit of no matter the ship or class i play i always go down the sci traits to get that 50% crit chance skill then work out where i want the other points to go
Comments
I'm also not going to disagree with a single thing you've said. I wasn't trying to imply they had to use Lobi or Lobi Ship Consoles; I know most don't start there, and why I showed a more Budget Build. My simple point was that it then eventually evolves there, if one is looking for Gold, or Diamond standing.
I clarified however that a focused tree can improve DPS so it's a bit more clear; I just assumed most would evolve to a more focus Skill selection, and why I showed the DPS League defaults overlaid. As it is a journey! I'd also agree with you if they revised the League Skill tree this year, it might also put at least 1 in Eng to Hull Capacity too!
I also agree, and while I didn't focus on keybinds/hotkeys; it was only a very small bullet point yet it's closely related to DPS. It is a journey, I just hinted that indirectly by showing the contrast to DPS League from a Balanced Build, so people could evolve that way based on their preference, and desire.
Also Tyler's Duality is based upon Hull Capacity; even if Colony Deflector is Hull Modifier. Still does one use Precision (Rank 2), Advanced Targeting Systems (Rank 2), & Tyler's Duality (Rank 2) which is based upon Hull Capacity in combo with 1-2 others, I didn't focus on them as again it's Trait's; and people can see the various DPS League Ship Builds, to see what Traits, and Bridge Officer abilities are very good for each ship regardless! Those will help everyone, regardless what Skill choices they use...
Yes I'm aware, like all things devil is in the details; but again that talks about Traits or SETs which I was trying to avoid. Still I do acknowledge the vast majority of the advise of DPS League is very solid! I also said most DPS probably don't even notice the squishier (less resistant builds) simply because they roast things so fast before they get hit; at least in all but a few cases.
By Ultimate clicky I presume your talking Epic Consoles; and yes that's why I thought it was a natural evolution, as one attempts to climb the standings.
▬▬▬▬♫♪♫♪♪▬▬▬▬▬▬♥▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬♦▬▬▬
PS: I know he meant the Ultimate 24+ Points in each tree, just a hint that some Epic consoles can help DPS considerably; and make-up for differences between a balanced, or more focused tree too.
Good catch! @westmetals that depends more on the Hull Modifier, still I think the league might think putting 1 into Hull Capacity today; for the trait were not supposed to talk about.
It just took a lot to put that prior note together; while I thought it was clear to have more try a bit more focused build; I know most don't start there. Anyways time for sleep...
Absolutely. Even exceptional DPS.
The Ultimate clickly is what you get by having 24- 27 points into tactical part of the skill tree. The 27 point (full) version with all 3 unlocks to enable them for the team is very nice. Ability: Focused Frenzy
For what's it worth I'm really enjoying the Lobi consoles I got earlier this year. It was part of my event reward. They do really improve your CrtH but aren't magic.
Since you named the channels will give a little bit extra explanation as to why they've been part of a journey.
Gold channel used to be 50K but a few years back went up to 80K. This was when I told myself it's time to sort a few things out instead of hoping I get another lucky parse which had brought me into the 50K version.
Fortunately I had a few very patient people give me some help over the years both in game and here. Emphasis. Very. Patient. as I am stubborn and set in my ways. It's tough to break old habits lol.
Had to work on my cooldowns, keybinds, and skill tree (and cram CrtH)
Several former 20-30K toons made it to 80K with difficulty at first, and then after some practice became more consistent and kept on going up to just over 130K (in a Raider of all things). After adding a Gagarin and Lobi consoles things kept on climbing and am at 155K or so at the moment with potential for a fair bit more based upon my piloting. I play on advanced. Diamond is 160K.
What is amazing is that there seems to be a point at which things really start to multiply rapidly. It's almost scary because I'm not a gamer but just a Star Trek fan and the channels aren't really important. The whole thing with the multiplication was completely unexpected.
Understand, I knew what Ultimate meant, it was just a innocent teaser... ...simply because some Epic consoles are very effective at DPS as well, not all need to be Lockbox/Lobi/Promo Ship either; just the larger % often are. Still the DPS League Ship Build Guides for Ship are very solid (metaphor) to improve your Ship, just following their Skills (Bridge Officer) abilities, and Trait's. Even if you don't use same Consoles or Weapons; and learn a little about keybinds/hotkeys as part of that journey too.
https://www.sto-league.com/ship-builds/
♦ Can help with DPS, but Exotic or Drain builds; and includes a variety of ships; following Bridge Officer skills see's biggest gains.
♠ And yes can even help identify ways to improve Tanking or Survivability too; based on Traits identified too.
Still glad I clarified, why I overlaid the DPS League (Guide) over the more Balanced Skill Tier; on earlier page. I assumed most eventually evolve to a more focused build on their journey. Yet as implied you can do Good DPS with a Balanced Build, to which you stated, "Absolutely. Even exceptional DPS."
But time for sleep, still hopefully this discussion helps a few on their journey. It was a good discussion! Have a good day!
Some characters, most of mine maybe, go primarily for their own class. Rarely, since i'm not great with meta or numbers, I'll deviate to try and get more out of my DPS, like a tac getting more points for exotic particles or survivability but otherwise, they tend to stick with their school of training.
I prefer the bonus Shield Hardness skill, as it's not influenced by Shield Power.
fully as well. Also Redirected Armor Plating from the Renegade's Regret Mission, helps a lot even if
you don't have 1 point in Hull Plating.
What "they" do, per the comment on your photo, is to remove the skill points from EPS and long range targeting sensors when heavy science is called for as these skill points aren't needed for a pure exotic build that doesn't rely upon any energy weapon damage.
There's a savings of 5 skill points there for anybody wanting to do an exotic science build.
Exotic Science Skill Tree
Sometimes I use something like this when wanting to do an energy build that utilizes a gravity well and EPG damage.
They're all part of a basic framework I usually start out with. The extra 7 points can go straight into tactical for energy weapon only builds and to other places for mixed builds.
I have lots of characters so each can have their own focus versus having them be "all purpose".
IMO there's nothing to be gained for going heavy on science with a ship that's always going to use beams or cannons and maybe a torpedo.
The new forums are a mystery to me. I would like to mention despite hull cap being a primary choice for all the good things it does having a point into hull restoration does seem to come in handy. Most of my characters are spec'd this way but tbh there's some that aren't that don't seem to be missing it. All these things are a personal choice as to how you want to tune your character.
I agree it makes sense for Sci with less Hull to have more, and a bit more Resistance; still this should make a good guide, for those wanting to try a more focused build. Some may prefer your suggestion as well.
Good Day!
Full science builds might want to include drain infection as well if they need it.
Have a good night.
When the game decides to send swarms of Dreadnaughts and ships twice the size of my own ship, or decides to zap my ship with the "5-4-3-2-1" special attack (I don't even know what it is, yet), then my ship is pretty much doomed and forced to respawn or I'm forced to quit that mission.
I've been playing this STO game a handful of weeks.
Apparently I've reached the "pay to win" part of the game, which sucks.
The balance, of one's ship versus one's opponents in STO, could use some serious re-programming.
If STO didn't have "story content", then it would hold little appeal for me.
I already play World of Warships, and that game is kicking STO's figurative stern in terms of ship balancing and scenario & mission balancing.
The skill tree is only one small part of anything.
Ship build is more important then the skill tree.
Piloting is more important then either.
A few tips that may help you. By end game a lot of people are going to have very DPS dmg all the time heavy builds. I have builds with basically zero heals ect... but I have 12 years of XP and sure some paid traits ect.
Starting out I would suggest balanced builds. You only really need a few dmg skills... (Weapon buffs, attack patterns... Emergency power to weapons ect) Past that... focus on some heals and resistance skills. Good base game heals... Hazard emitters (hot heal + dmg resistance... also wipes annoying damage over time like plasma burns ect) Polarized hull... makes you immune to tractor beams and grants large resistance buff. Engi team... heals and clears engi debuffs (system disables ect). Sci team... heals shields and clears sci debuffs (things like scramble, subnuke cool down debuffs ect) Transfer shield strength... not as popular but its a shield heal over time and can help.
Distribute shields. This is an innate ability. Go into your keybind settings and look for distribute shields.. and bind it to a key. I use "q" so I can hit it while I pilot.
Brace for impact. Captain skill. Most new players don't use this. Its free... it gives you big Kinetic resist which is often what kill you vs NPCs. It does provide a small heal... but its the kinetic resist you want. If you loose shields cause something like a borg ship stripped them... hit BFI. (you can also get some standard duty officers from the exchange for low cost that provide added resistance to all dmg when you use BFI... very good starter duty officers)
Evasive maneuvers. Another free captain skill. This will help you move fast. Its a good escape when you are in trouble... sometimes its ok to run a little. To further this tip ALWAYS be moving. One mechanic in the game is Accuracy/Defense. To see how this works when you are in a social zone or in space anywhere... open your captain info and ship Status... scroll down to your defense number. Stop and look at it... then move forward and see what it is, and also try reversing and seeing what it is. The game calculates hits as acc/def... but as Acc over takes Def there is also overflow into Critical severity. So you never ever want to park and fire (unless you know your at no risk) Also on Accuracy and Defense... there are two space traits everyone gets for free (accurate and elusive) Accurate isn't a big deal for pve... but Elusive will give you a base +10 defense at all times no matter what. (this can greatly reduce the magnitude of crits that hit you) Some practical advice... slot elusive, stay moving... and if you need to "park" instead put your ship in reverse for 4-5s at a time to get defense bonus. (don't reverse for more then 5s cause it starts costing you ship power... just go forward a second then reverse again)
Power levels... can also be important. Weapon power to 100 (if you are using energy weapons) greatly increases your dmg output. Shield power effects both shield resistance, as well as shield regen. Engines effects speed... Aux power effects the strength of heals (mainly science based ones but also a few others like Temporal casual reversion). You can also key bind power setting shifts. The game gives us 4 modes. The 4th one is a "balance" setting... my suggesting is to go to balance and make it an aux power setting... jack up the aux power in that mode. A hazards popped at full aux as an example as apposed to 25 aux power will heal and provide 4-5x the resistance. To see what is effected by power... again go to a space map and look at the tool tips on your skills and move power levels to see the effect.
Just want to make sure new play knows to move.
To be super accurate...
To hit;
100/(100 + ([Def] - [Acc]))
Acc overflow;
-100/(100+([Attackers Acc]-[Targets Defense]))+1
I believe the max is something around 12% crth and 50% crtd from overflow at the crazy end... but 4-5/20-30 are pretty common for players vs NPCs if you have 50+ acc. (which is why most people just concentrate on stacking CRTD for pve its far more efficient)
NPCs granted aren't going to have massive accuracy numbers to overflow... but you don't need to help them sitting still with nothing boosting your defense like the basic elusive space trait and having a negative defense value. (The ghost borg torpedos typically new players complain about are caused by overflow. Player parks has no traits/gear with +defense, combined with almost zero kinetic resistance, NPC torp ends up in overflow... and a torp that was coded to hurt with no crit, crits and one shots them.)
Stacking accuracy yourself is not a great way to get high crit no... But its not nothing either, and their are things that directly debuff target defense. (but anyway beyond the scope of making it less likely to die to NPC torp)
I think some of you are missing the forest by attempting to look at the trees.
Star Trek from the 1960's often only had one opposing ship (Klingon, Andorian, Tranya-drinking mega-ship and etc.) in an episode.
Budget reasons? Maybe.
In STO, it is routine to sail one player ship into a swarm of six or more opposing ships.
Often those opposing ships are bigger/stronger/faster.
My skill-tree was recently re-trained to conform with a DPS League set-up.
Here's a link
https://www.sto-league.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Space-FED.jpg
I have tried a variety of ship types as a free-to-play account.
Some because of getting a promotion, some purchased with dilithium.
Birds-of-Prey, Warbirds, Cruisers, Heavy/Battlecruisers.
Klingon, Federation, Romulan.
I get the impression that some people have forgotten what it is like to be new to a game.
Also, I've played other Star Trek computer games which used the Amarillo Design Bureau principles of play and I did do well with those.
It's not like I can't play a game or understand game principles.
In comparison to other games, STO space combat is clumsy, not user-friendly, and poorly paced.
And it does have a "balance" problem, in my opinion.
If you want me to give your opinions some weight, don't forget to give my opinion some weight, too.
STO is a MMO.
Yes it is a star trek game... no it is not a board game, nor is it like older Star Trek simulator type games.
I know you are getting a ton of advice, and I am not saying any of it is wrong or bad or some is good ect.
However you have to understand this is a 12 year old MMO. I would not as a new player try and use builds or even skill trees from the DPS league type sources. Its not that that is bad advice, its the opposite its great advice for people that know the game. Also that have been playing long enough to have a few perks... and access to ship traits and personal space traits that make self heals/resiss a little less required.
As an example... one issue with using the DPS league skill tree you posted as a completely NEW player. You have nothing at all speced into hull resistance. The game doesn't give you any of that for free as a new player. As a 12 year old player with endeavor points you will get more then what the skill tree can provide by default.
The skill tree you've posted might be out of date.
As it was said above though... piloting > build > skill tree.
It's not unheard of to hear concerns from newer players who've recently reached max level.
Sometimes other parts of how a ship is set up need to be looked at as well.
The rest is just practice.
The DPS Skill Tree is perfectly fine for new or veteran players. As stated before though, it's one of many parts of a build and just copying a skill tree and expecting to be invincible is unrealistic for any player of any skill level. There is plenty of easily obtainable gear from missions and reputations that will, in combination with a good skill tree, a sensible build, and reasonable piloting result in even a new player being able to easily handle game content played on normal difficulty.
Learning it might not be easy, it might not be as easy as just copying something from a web site and calling it good, but it's not that difficult either if you're playing on normal difficulty. The STO League site also provides example starter builds using reputation and mission reward gear and a discord channel for those that need more advice.
You can use whatever skill tree you want, if you're not using a sensible build none of it matters. The league resources are there to help, they're optional.. use them if you wish, but if you don't find success it isn't because the advice was bad, the issue is that it's not being correctly applied.
Agreed, and I had no intention to throw any shade.
The DPS league folks are all very willing to help each other, and players of all xp get better. I was only really intending to speak to the tendency for new players in any MMO not just STO, to find the "bestest of the best" DPS builds, copy them as close as they can and go. Of course being a new player its very hard to copy builds using years of collected bits ect.
wolfswetpaws#2250 if your still paying attention to this thread. No one is discounting your experience coming into the game.... most of us didn't get the game we had in our heads when we came to STO no matter what year we started playing. The game we have though isn't half bad... its fun, and sure can be difficult at times, too easy others. As Sorrows just said there are a few good places to get more info on all the bits. The game has a lot of systems, sure they can be overwhelming if your brand new... returning players find new systems they have to get their heads around as well. Another in game chat channel to join... NoP Public Service. Its not a build help channel its a channel for people giving people free invites to their fleet holdings and such things. Having said that its got a lot of long time players hanging out there helping people out with stuff... and often people there will ask questions as you go.
Fair point, and I do agree that newer players are kind of 'up against it' when it comes to gear. There are so many good items in this game that are staples of DPS oriented builds that are either no longer available, or only available at a prohibitive cost.
The league tries to make clear that builds posted are suggestions, we usually encourage people to alter to their personal taste, but we both know that many will do exactly as you said and just copy the build as close as possible without understanding it.. then they head out, get smashed and blame the suggestion.
I am not saying the OP is doing this, I give him the benefit of the doubt, I'll just say it happens kind of a lot.
OP, if you have specific build questions for a specific ship.. let us know.. maybe we can try and help you iron out an effective build to go with your new skill tree. There are still some pretty solid gear options from missions, reputations, and fleet stores. While quite a few 'top of the line' items might not be a viable option, the good news is that if you're just trying to do the game content in normal mode, none of the high dollar options are required at all. I am sure we can find you options.
Here's the copy/paste of it, for easier viewing.
seaofsorrows wrote: »
husanakx wrote: »
wolfswetpaws#2250 if your still paying attention to this thread. No one is discounting your experience coming into the game.... most of us didn't get the game we had in our heads when we came to STO no matter what year we started playing. The game we have though isn't half bad... its fun, and sure can be difficult at times, too easy others. As Sorrows just said there are a few good places to get more info on all the bits. The game has a lot of systems, sure they can be overwhelming if your brand new... returning players find new systems they have to get their heads around as well. Another in game chat channel to join... NoP Public Service. Its not a build help channel its a channel for people giving people free invites to their fleet holdings and such things. Having said that its got a lot of long time players hanging out there helping people out with stuff... and often people there will ask questions as you go.
I revisited this topic, today.
The game limits players' access to gear/equipment/weapons/consumables in the faction stores & shipyards (the limit being Mk-IX level when a player's character reaches the requisite rank).
Nothing purchased from an in-game vendor is higher than Mk-9 level, to my knowledge, so far.
And items dropped by opponents during missions/patrols/battles are inconsistent and sometimes incompatible.
I've since discovered, via a fellow World of Warships player, the Exchange.
In the Exchange a person can access a wider variety of items & personnel for their ship configurations & crew rosters.
I've also been learning the Duty Officer system, the Admiralty System and the Reputation System.
Most of my characters aren't sufficiently ready to be "crafting" items for use, yet.
It's expensive (credits/dilthium & crafting materials and research points) at the moment.
But, I've experimented with a few items, just to get the feel of it and make a specific console or to upgrade something.
Often it is easier to find what I want, or what might work 'well-enough', by visiting the Exchange.
I've outfitted a couple of character's ships & crews with Mark-12 level stuff.
And I'm fine-tuning their Duty Officer rosters to increase the success rate of performing Duty Officer assignments.
This is still a work in progress.
But, I've found some reference material and have made some personal notes regarding which "traits" benefit a given type of Duty Officer for certain type of assignments.
This (linked article) was helpful. But also has limitations, because of in-game changes made since it was written.
http://stosite.com/duty-officers-how-many-of-each-type-do-i-need/
I've created an alphabetical list variation, with some personal notes, as a simple text file.
This way one can view one's roster by job category instead of by department.
It's still a "work in progress", but I've attached it to this post as a way to share what I've learned with the STO community.
Thanks for the helpful efforts. :-)