I have been as harsh as anyone when it comes to Cryptic, but the guy said something he regretted and he posted an apology.
None of you ever say anything and then regret it? Are we all perfect sitting in the seat of judgement?
It's not like I usually 'White Knight' for Cryptic, but I am a fan of personal accountability and at least Kael attempted to do that. He felt he made a mistake, he apologized and tried to clear it up.. some people just won't accept it either way, and I guess that's their right. There is no need to be outwardly rude to him though.
Bort's comment was intentionally condescending, and I think we all know that he won't apologize for it because that's just how he is. He's also not going to talk to us either way so yeah.. fine.. he deserves what he gets.
I don't have to worry about Kael seeing this, he's made is quarterly post on the forums, we won't see him again till august
Why would he? When he tries to be civil, he gets this? I am not saying just call it good no matter what.. but we can at least be civil can't we?
If the goal is actually to get Cryptic to interact with us more...
... then he needs to be replaced.
I'm sorry but yes, it has come to that and it is just that simple.
I didn't see the livestream in question - I never have because they are while I am at work, and I'm more comfortable with information in writing anyway - so the last interaction that I had with him was in his "how to have a civil conversation" thread. In which he did reply directly to me after I complained, repeatedly, about my question (regarding a new game mechanic that was not and still has not been adequately explained) being ignored... but his response was only in order to explain WHY he was ignoring the question (that it apparently wasn't presented in an attention-getting-enough manner).
When I followed up as to how to present the question differently, in order to get an answer, he never replied at all.
Fair enough, this certainly isn't the first time this issue has come up.
I was trying the idea of responding courteously as an encouragement to get more interaction, but if we're being perfectly honest, I have been doing that for a long time and it's never worked.
Not like I'm the gold standard of how to act, I have infractions on this forum from taking shots at him.. I was trying something different, but it doesn't appear that either strategy really works.
the dude made a post and abandoned ship for what, 4 days now? that's a poor excuse for a representative of a company.. ANY company. he should have KNOWN there would be questions and responses requiring more contact, yet he failed to plan time to do so? I don't have a fakebook account or instagram or twitter, but I bet he's been posting there. the fact is that this is supposedly the OFFICIAL forums, and yet the members here are treated like redheaded stepchildren.
the dude made a post and abandoned ship for what, 4 days now? that's a poor excuse for a representative of a company.. ANY company. he should have KNOWN there would be questions and responses requiring more contact, yet he failed to plan time to do so? I don't have a fakebook account or instagram or twitter, but I bet he's been posting there. the fact is that this is supposedly the OFFICIAL forums, and yet the members here are treated like redheaded stepchildren.
Kael's attitude is: "Nothing is my fault...it's all just a game, why do players take things so seriously...I'm a human being with ADD - so I shouldn't be held accountable for the mistakes I make in proofreading or anything WRT this job because again, it's not MY FAULT! And players are needlessly mean to me and others and that's not right because it just a game."
So yeah, remember that the next time you think: Hmmm do I want to spend money on a game no one really takes reasonability for, and who don't really care about my concerns as to where the money (read what type of future development or the attitudes of the staff they pay salaries to.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
My complaint is stuff only being announced in Social Media. This whole business of Phoenix changes was never announced on the launcher, which is the one place every player will see. I never saw it announced in the forums, though I might have missed it.
ONLY communicating important info via social media is one thing that really annoys me more than can be said in words we are allowed to use here. Face it, a lot of the player base are of an age group that doesn't use social media, that actively despises social media.
My complaint is stuff only being announced in Social Media. This whole business of Phoenix changes was never announced on the launcher, which is the one place every player will see. I never saw it announced in the forums, though I might have missed it.
ONLY communicating important info via social media is one thing that really annoys me more than can be said in words we are allowed to use here. Face it, a lot of the player base are of an age group that doesn't use social media, that actively despises social media.
What is even more galling is the fact that there is this at the foot of Blog posts:
Which, to be fair, does link to the forum, but not to a thread pertaining to whatever the blog was about (Flaming, trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
well said Sirsitsalot, unfortunately the gaming world and its upper echelons forget an older rule of thumb. Take care of the people and they take care of you. As For the dev's a reminder, You Are Spokespeople for a Product/Service. Your vocal opinions reflect directly on said product/service and as much as you do not want to agree with that...sorry it is exactly that. There are many other dev's from other game title's that did something very similar to the direction you went and, well they almost shut down.
I mean AmbassadorKael I would look at this as a wakeup call. I personally don't agree with you on 50 % of what you say but now the this is What ya gonna do about it, reminder here actions speak louder than words.... Now with all dat said
"Go Make Dat Money"
The first is arguable but the second......well Borty's martyr complex really doesn't help things, plus saying things like "we did X so we can make more money" really doesn't help things either. You keep that last bit to yourself.
I despise most of my customers as they're high end business types, but they don't need to know that.
^ Spot on. Cryptic blaming the players for their poor design decisions is not garnering any sympathy.
I FULLY agree with this. It's like the issue with GPL. They didn't plan it out very well and players, excited about the new currency, amassed way too much way faster than Cryptic expected. Rather than doing ANYthing with it, Cryptic blamed the player base for hoarding it and refuse to do anything with it to this very day. When asked, Kael still blames the players for stockpiling. Nothing is done with GPL and since nothing is done, it stockpiles all the further.
As for me, if this was for comments during the "Like A Phoenix", that ENTIRE livestream just felt like a talking down to the community. Whether it was or not, i watched it after the live part and they both just really didn't come off in the best of light. The above statement really seemed, to me at least, like a "I'm not wrong because YOU misunderstood me". It seems like a continuation of the issue, rather than addressing or assuaging of legitimate concerns. Between certain Devs and even mods here on the forums, it seems more like another snarky "I'm right because i have power" than a legitimate response to player concerns or issues.
There are ways to explain bad or unpopular decisions WITHOUT making it feel like you're talking down to people and that stream and the OP here are definitely NOT that.
I've actually started relistening to that livestream since i've started typing and rethinking this post and even then, they're just laughing at the concerns and criticisms, while talking down to the players.
It's not a great way, as the community manager, to manage the community.
Comments
None of you ever say anything and then regret it? Are we all perfect sitting in the seat of judgement?
It's not like I usually 'White Knight' for Cryptic, but I am a fan of personal accountability and at least Kael attempted to do that. He felt he made a mistake, he apologized and tried to clear it up.. some people just won't accept it either way, and I guess that's their right. There is no need to be outwardly rude to him though.
Bort's comment was intentionally condescending, and I think we all know that he won't apologize for it because that's just how he is. He's also not going to talk to us either way so yeah.. fine.. he deserves what he gets.
Why would he? When he tries to be civil, he gets this? I am not saying just call it good no matter what.. but we can at least be civil can't we?
If the goal is actually to get Cryptic to interact with us more.. this is not the way.
Fair enough, this certainly isn't the first time this issue has come up.
I was trying the idea of responding courteously as an encouragement to get more interaction, but if we're being perfectly honest, I have been doing that for a long time and it's never worked.
Not like I'm the gold standard of how to act, I have infractions on this forum from taking shots at him.. I was trying something different, but it doesn't appear that either strategy really works.
I understand where you're coming from.
Kael's attitude is: "Nothing is my fault...it's all just a game, why do players take things so seriously...I'm a human being with ADD - so I shouldn't be held accountable for the mistakes I make in proofreading or anything WRT this job because again, it's not MY FAULT! And players are needlessly mean to me and others and that's not right because it just a game."
So yeah, remember that the next time you think: Hmmm do I want to spend money on a game no one really takes reasonability for, and who don't really care about my concerns as to where the money (read what type of future development or the attitudes of the staff they pay salaries to.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
ONLY communicating important info via social media is one thing that really annoys me more than can be said in words we are allowed to use here. Face it, a lot of the player base are of an age group that doesn't use social media, that actively despises social media.
Booyah! You tell 'em, Reyan!
I mean AmbassadorKael I would look at this as a wakeup call. I personally don't agree with you on 50 % of what you say but now the this is What ya gonna do about it, reminder here actions speak louder than words.... Now with all dat said
"Go Make Dat Money"
1. Make a good product
2. Treat the customers as though you like them.
The first is arguable but the second......well Borty's martyr complex really doesn't help things, plus saying things like "we did X so we can make more money" really doesn't help things either. You keep that last bit to yourself.
I despise most of my customers as they're high end business types, but they don't need to know that.
I FULLY agree with this. It's like the issue with GPL. They didn't plan it out very well and players, excited about the new currency, amassed way too much way faster than Cryptic expected. Rather than doing ANYthing with it, Cryptic blamed the player base for hoarding it and refuse to do anything with it to this very day. When asked, Kael still blames the players for stockpiling. Nothing is done with GPL and since nothing is done, it stockpiles all the further.
As for me, if this was for comments during the "Like A Phoenix", that ENTIRE livestream just felt like a talking down to the community. Whether it was or not, i watched it after the live part and they both just really didn't come off in the best of light. The above statement really seemed, to me at least, like a "I'm not wrong because YOU misunderstood me". It seems like a continuation of the issue, rather than addressing or assuaging of legitimate concerns. Between certain Devs and even mods here on the forums, it seems more like another snarky "I'm right because i have power" than a legitimate response to player concerns or issues.
There are ways to explain bad or unpopular decisions WITHOUT making it feel like you're talking down to people and that stream and the OP here are definitely NOT that.
I've actually started relistening to that livestream since i've started typing and rethinking this post and even then, they're just laughing at the concerns and criticisms, while talking down to the players.
It's not a great way, as the community manager, to manage the community.