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How do you like to distribute your skill points?
ericsonxx
Member Posts: 253 Arc User
More in favor of your class, or in favor of your ship type, if they're not the most matching?
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Sounds reasonable. I mean if your ships Sci powers are more for just defense, vs my OG captain tossing around Tyken Rift and Gravity wells, etc.
For me I avoid the so called "ultimate" abilities as for what I do, you leave way too much on the table in other areas and shortchange your ship while you gain very little in return. They're certainly viable but for how I build they're not practical. Think of it as a situation of why have one or two benefits from an "ultimate" build when I can have four or five benefits from a more balanced build if you catch my drift. There is no right or wrong answer as to distribution of your skill points despite what some may tell you. There are only builds, and builds that won't give as much bang for your buck towards your intended goals.
Only skills I always recommend people avoid like the plague are Damage Control and Shield Regeneration as even with all 3 points they're a waste of skill points for healing.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I do pretty much the same!
My TAC & ENG each have 16 in TAC, then 15 in SCI/ENG. Only my SCI take 15 in TAC/ENG, and put 16 in SCI.
It's very balanced, and yes you loose the ultimate abilities; yet your not short changing, or opening many weaknesses either. Sure I put some skills up to 3, yet only if it's something that makes a real difference; often Tactical or a few Sci abilities mostly.
Generally, I move 1 or 2 points around as needed, but this is generally a solid guide. If you're not sure exactly what you want to do, then just copy it. It works for all classes.
I mostly balance it all out nice... if I'm going to PVP you want enough in sci to enable the stealth detection bonus.
With most things you want to keep in mind 2 points in is 85% as effective as 3 points in.
If you want to spec so you can fly anything and swap back and forth without worrying about sucking. You can balance it out with 2 in most of the important stuff. There are also some things you can skip I mostly skip the readiness stuff as I build to take care of cool downs anyway.
Because almost everything in the game is dead with in 1-2 weapon cycles with a couple decent players anyway. Your not going to mark anything but the largest hit point soaks. So its situational... its only any good in content that has big hit point soaks, and even in those cases target is likely to be dead before you see much advantage. Not useless but situational ya.
It should be noted, the skill tree I linked, as well as the one I use are done with Elite Content in mind. In Elite Content, there are plenty of targets that stay alive long enough for you to get a substantial boost from the Ultimate.
If you never play this type of content, or find that you never fight anything that stays alive for more then a few seconds, then by all means, feel free to spec out of the Ultimate and re-distribute those points somewhere more beneficial.
@ericsonxx
The only caution there might be if your a SCI, flying a Sci Ship, might want to put more in Control & EPG depending your focus. Still I think he qualified that by moving a few around, so his point is very fare indeed! I'd not disagree with this working well for TAC/ENG for sure in Elite content. You'll be more squishy for sure, yet that's rarely a problem for DPSERs in the +150 to 200k (range) at least.
Those often represent less than 10% of the base however. As can often requires several Lobi, Lockbox, or Promo Starships Traits, Space Traits, Consoles, or Gear to make work well too--not always though. Those large DPS gains aren't as noticeable in Longer TFO's with more spacing between enemy, or longer gaps in time; similar to what @darkbladejk eluded too the variances aren't so significant then.
Note: Often though more gains are exploring keybinds, or hotkeys to trigger multiple (2-4 max) more regularly, especially like Tactical team, or distribute shield facings as most enemy hit 1-2 facings, so distributing to all facings is very helpful, and tactical team also does that too, so one or the other.
So just thought, I'd show an example of a more balanced build, that gives more flexibility to a variety of Ships; if you don't use Torp's move 1-2 points to boost Crit Chance, or Severity. Could take 1 out of Shield Capacity too. Still you'll notice only one 3 pointer in ENG, and 2 in Sci, and only 1 in TAC. The exception is the full 16 in for SCI for more Science Captains (shown below) where they have 3; as I'd suspect even DPSERs put at least 16 in SCI. It's very flexible, and you can probably find a happy compromise between this & the example @seaofsorrows provided; from the DPS Site, and why I overlaid both contrasts.
Most will see the biggest gains, just following their Bridge Officer Skills choices even with a balanced build; though TAC/ENG do gain noticeable gains from the 24 Focused Frenzy, with at least Frenzied Assault. So people can decide how to make their own decisions between balanced, or the DPS League outlined in Red choices.
If your not SCI, yet ENG/TAC just move the 1 in SCI (circled) from Exotic to TAC at Admiral Level to reduce Tac Cooldowns by 10%. Possibly could move a few others, depending upon your individual goals!
I was looking for some skill tree advice in this thread but it appears to be all over the map.
What I'm looking for is something durable for beam and cannon cruisers and battlecruiser so mainly energy weapons focused on tactical and engineering captains.
A Moderator above didn't seem too keen on the tactical ultimate but says he's a tank. A number of people agreed with him so are they all tanks?
Some other person said things aren't alive long enough with a couple really good players on the map for the team frenzy thing to be worthwhile but the thing is I'm not really that great a player so lot's of big things are around for a while and I'd like as much help as possible.
The same person also said to only use 2 points instead of 3 because it's 85% as good but wouldn't that water things down by 15% ?
The skill tree that caught my eye was deleted for some reason. It had a tac 27 point tac ultimate. Would that make me squishy?
A lot of people seem to have skill trees with points into pretty well everything. Will things like Control and Drain X help protect my energy weapons build from things like drains, disables, and placates when I play?
Final question - do I need readiness skills if I use Photonic Officer 2 for cooldown reduction?
Any advice welcome once everybody sorts things out lol.
Ok. This is the sort of solid advice I'm looking for. The science skills are not needed for weapons based builds.
Now I'm confused. Unless science makes my beam boat better how is using them profitable? As far as power nodes are concerned I'm using the captain level offensive and defensive nodes and 2 points into the Admiral level power skills. My power levels seems ok but I could be mistaken.
I guess not being exact might be a safe thing with so many opinions lol but it would be great to see some sort of a starting template to use from those suggesting different things. There's a lot of opinions in this thread but so far only two people have actually posted links to that academy skill organizer thing so at least there's something to look at there. Most people seem to just drop by to say they don't like certain things but don't provide any real guidance beyond that.
the thing is, templates are not really going to help you. if I used the exact same template as one of the others that have posted, I might do far better then they, but in reality, I MIGHT be lucky to get half the dps. the reason? some of it is skill a LOT of it is experience. this game is not hard unless you are doing something for the first time. the TFOs and missions roll out exactly the same, so anticipating where to be really helps out. the builds already there are great but don't be afraid to change things around to suit YOUR style of play. you are certainly going to have to experiment.
This is a pretty standard universal spec I use. I might change things a bit now and then but more or less this is a good average. Yes if you want to TOP a DPS score board and do 3% more DPS you could spec a bit different... if you want to have the ULTIMATE Sci you could spec a little bit different and do just a little better at that one thing.
This spec allows you to run a very effective Sci build, a energy build, a torp build.... pretty much any build will be effective, very much so.
When I said 85% better what I mean is every thing in the tree has 100 SKILL points... at 2 spec points you get 85 SKILL points. So you get 85% of the skill points. The thing to keep in mind is that most things in the game have diminishing returns.
So some real examples from the tree....
Weapon Amplification (critical severity) 1 point in gets you 20% bouns. 2 points in gives you 34%. 3 points in gives you 40%. So one extra skill points is only 6% crtd. Which frankly isn't a whole lot... when you can instead use the points in something like Warp core potential which will give you 3 power in every system (or 12 more power all the time).
The same is true for something like Particle generator. 2 points in gives you 85 skill points, 3 100 (15 EPG is half of one sci console... its not going to make a big difference... again you will get more out of taking Aux System performance and getting 3.2 Aux power)
As for things like say Energy Weapon training... most people go and put 3 in I almost always just put 2 in. The difference is 42.5% Category 1 weapon dmg with 2 skill points. Vs 50% with 3. Again 7.5% cat 1 energy dmg... its 1/5 of one tac console, its just not that big a deal... I would rather put a point or two into torps then if I ever decide to use them I don't have to respec.
For almost everything in the tree you will find that 15 skill points more is just really doesn't make much difference (I mean 3.4% extra crit or 4%... its 0.6% crith for one more skill point)
As far as going all in on tac making you squishy... Yes that is what will happen. You will not have points to spec 2 points into more hull (2 points in gives you 25.5% more hull... again 3 points only gives you 4.5% more) Things like Shield resistance (17% more shield resistance form 2 skill points)... you also probably want 2 points in drain and control in the sci tree as those specs also make you more resistant to control and drain.... Some NPCs do try to drain and control you.
On the cool downs... the readiness skills are ok if you really aren't doing anything to reduce cool downs. If your running Photonic officer 2 no they will not do much fore you. (if you are running improved photonic officer ship trait they will for sure do nothing for you). There are many many ways to reduce cool downs... borg duty officers, aux to bat with duty officers, Boimler space trait, many traits for specific skills/skill types, and even consoles like the delta rep. I would say never spec those unless you know your toon isn't going to use anything else... OR what you are planning to use is JUST shy of hitting global in which throwing one point it might be a good idea, or two. (NEVER EVER 3... at 2 your get 17% cool down reduction at 3 you get 20%... not worth it ever)
My suggestion is to use something like I have here... until you really understand the skill tree well. Sure you can do slightly better for specific builds. But a spec like the one I am posting will get you 95% as good in pretty much every roll. Spec for ship power you can't go wrong... put 2 points in most things... and your golden. Also feel free to move some points around obviously for what makes sense for you... as an example I rarely ever spec hull repair, I tend to fly escorts and use colony consoles which over heal me so much I never really have to worry about passive hull regen.
EDIT to add about the choice selections at the bottom... a few things that might not be obvious.
Take Battery expertise. (this increases duration on things like the red matter power device ect)
Take Sub System repair (The other option is +10 hull cap... but again its 10 skill points not % 10 skill points will give you probably double digit hull lol)
In Sci... if you plan to PvP. Take both the stealth and perception buffs again the other options are +10 skill points and basically useless anyway.
In tac... tax the +crt chance options. Your options here are +1 CritH (or half a crth mod) vs 5% crtD (or 1/4 of a CRTD mod) Not a hard choice, but in case that isn't obvious.
The hanger weaponry is really up to you if your going to fly something with a hanger 10% dmg is nice... if your not, the other option either lets you tank, or if you are pulling argo from a tank it should help with that.
Simply a matter of diminishing returns. You don't get enough skill points to take everything, so the focus is on spending the points you have on the things that will help you the most. Yes, spending those 3 in Tac might be a bit 'better' but spending them elsewhere gets you more gains. The template I linked you is made by people that have spent a ridiculous amount of time parsing all this out and determining what gives the best gains and what just isn't worth spending a precious skill point.
No, this is not good advice. As westmetals said above, there are Science Skills that help you with Energy Weapons builds. Exotic Particle Generators boosts science based abilities from BoFFs, it also boosts damage from sources the game considers 'non weapon' damage so you can get boosts to other skills from EPG which is why all the example builds have at least 1 point spent there. 3 Points into Long Range is an absolute must in any build and must always be taken, the damage drop from not spending 3 points here is significant.
Because as said above, Science does make you better. There are also points in Science that help your shield capacity, hardness and regeneration. As far as power levels, they may look fine sitting in space, but how do they look when you're firing 8 weapons at once? Are you able to keep your weapon power at or above 100 consistently during a fire fight? My guess is, no.
That is generally how it works around here.
Look, I'll keep it easy. Go to the link I posted here, and click on the picture of the Fed/KDF Side, Non Romulan.
Either use that exactly, or if you feel you don't want to focus into ultimates then move 1-3 points of your choosing from the Tactical Side and take Shield Regeneration and Shield Hardness in the Commander row and maybe Hull Capacity in the Lt. Row and you're good to go.
If you have a cooldown method like Photonic Officer or Aux2Bat then yes, these points can be taken from Tactical Readiness. Those points are there just to boost the Tactical point count and unlock the full power of the Ultimate Ability. If you decide not to use it, then you can remove points from Readiness, put them into your shield strength, shield hardness, and 3rd would be hull capacity. These are the areas that will help you the most in general PVE content.
You are not going to be tough or 'tanky' from your skill tree.. you can boost yourself a bit, but the skill tree is not where being 'tanky' comes from. It comes from your choice of bridge officer skills, your traits, and your consoles. The reason the tactical tree looks like this is because simply put, the biggest gains come to damage dealing, the skill tree gives you more of a boost for using Tac points then it does defensive boosts for using Engineering or Science. Some people here are over thinking it, the example is made by people that know what they're doing using parsed data and analytics. It's not just a 'guess.'
If anyone is looking for the absolute perfect skill tree that applies 100% to every single STO player.. it doesn't exist. Use the template I linked as the start point, if something doesn't make sense for what you're doing, move a couple points. All examples provided by the league are always intended to be just that.. examples. Though for the most part, they will be fine for the vast majority of players when used 'as is.'
That's very similar philosophy to my earlier example of 16 (Primary Spec), and 15 in the two others.
Either or could work very well, no real flaws with either -- just slight variations.
I put only 1 point in Critical Chance at Tac, as it gives 2%, while 2 points increases it to 3.4%. Most in DPS League granted go 3 to get %4. But that gives up flexibility, and they are focused only on a single energy damage build so makes sense for them. I just instead prefer getting 2% from Fleet Sphire Consoles, or other examples is the console from the Mission: Butterfly; very hand for Sci Ships yet may reduce your CtrlX or EPG as it has to go into Sci, if you have Universal like Retrofitted Assimilator, can make it up in TAC or ENG slot if Sci Ship to narrow the gap. Most ENG/SCI go with mostly CrtH/CrtD buff's, while most TAC focus on Dmg first as that works best, when reengineering depending on the Class to maximize damage.
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Whereas I choose the Defensive & Offensive Subsystem Tuning that provides +4.8 to two systems, rather than 2 addition points to boost each by 3.2; yet offset that by Warp Core Potential with 1 that boost all a further +3. No wrong choice as both are quite balanced, and both have very good resistance, even if mine does better at energy resist; also it really depends what Ship Gear or Sets your using that influence everything else too! Like do you have Leech Console from ESD/Quonos Shipyard from the Tier 3 Nausicaan Vandel Destroyer too; which if you didn't buy the T3 Ship previously, now requires DIL for each purchase at Port. Are you using a full Set from Mission or REP, or perhaps a Colony Deflector, with Competitive Impulse Engines, and Discovery Tilly's Shields?
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Note: This (example above) is for SCI as Class, for ENG/TAC move the circled Sci to Tac--where you want. It allows a lot of flexibility to change Ships types, to still very good effect; yet like all things DPS is mostly the Traits/Ship Traits & Keybinds/Hotkeys being maximized.
I put 2 into Hull Pen as it's often 70% or more of the Hitpoints, as Shields often <30% overall; but like all things it depends also on Trait choices chosen too. Still a little Shield Pen is good, but often you can boost further using the Disco Console.
No right or wrong, everyone's got to explore what works for them... ...if DPS is your primary motivator then consider what @seaofsorrows suggests as well; with just more Control & EPG for SCI builds.
Hello. First thing is thanks for your in-depth reply it's really appreciated. There is something I should clear up with you and @westmetals though that seems to have resulted in a misunderstanding. The fault is mine for not choosing the right words.
I realize that there are science skill points that will make my beam boat better. I already have 3 points into targeting sensors and a point each into shield regen and hardness. I also have at least 1 point each into shield healing and capacity. Hopefully this takes takes care of those areas in at least a basic way.
What I'm trying to determine is the relative value of the specific science skills Control Expertise and Drain Expertise. I'm trying to gauge the amount of protection they give to me in PVE gameplay from NPC's that drain, confuse etc. as well as any value they have to specific Captain abilities (i.e. Nadion Inversion), as I don't think I have any use for them on an energy build at least when it comes to my bridge officer abilities.
The reason I'm trying to determine their (protective) value is so I can focus my skill tree on areas that provide the best return to me and what I use. If I don't need them on an energy build there's 4 pts that can possibly go elsewhere. But I'd hate to leave them out and all of a sudden have NPC's shred me even faster with all the things they do.
It's my hope that there's potentially a difference between a focused skill tree and one that's numerically balanced and all purpose i.e. 15/15/16 but I'm cool with either way of doing things. Having more than one character means I don't necessarily need to have a single toon do everything so some focus is possible.
I get that EPG is a good thing with those abilities that use it and intend to leave 1-2 points there.
Understood. I have started using Photonic Officer 2. There's literally a ton of info on that website so I'll be doing some reading.
The part (in italics) is very interesting.
I appreciate your perspective and what others have said as well.
Pretty sure there's going to be a few more questions after digesting things for a bit
Fair enough. Here are the values for those skills:
I personally, don't use either on an Energy Weapon Build. I agree with pretty much everything @westmetals said above. If for example, I want to protect myself from tractor beam or increase my damage resistance, I would rather slot Polarize Hull instead of permanently dedicating a skill point. If I want to break control, I can use Evasive Maneuvers or any number of other things to do that.
Now, if I was a science build, especially a drain boat then absolutely I would pump these skill as high as possible, but for an energy weapon build, they can be skipped.
The preference for using a more balanced build (2 separate examples) above verses, going a bit more toward the DPS guide is a matter of preference. So to help I thought this be a good example, to show various consoles contrasts. Also I could have sub'd the Domino instead of Leech, was just trying to show a more Budget build with more balanced skill spending (from 1-2 examples above - one was Mine) verses DPS Guide; all could support slight modifications to skill tree too. Still most eventually move towards a more focused Skill Tree build.
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Like I could reduce 1 of the 2 Hull Points I allocated in Hull Capacity, or even 2 like League, and instead gave Improved Warp Core Potential +2 to all Power Systems and still have Eng at 15, and boost one other Power System too. It's wiser if I don't need 2 in Hull Capacity to do Improved Warp Core Potential for +2 in all Power Systems; Warp Core Efficiency yet I don't find it too useful, unless you have lower power levels. Hull % (Modifier) also slightly helps the Elite Fleet Deflector at Colony; it's just a choice; yet that effects a Trait more than the Colony Deflector.
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Still I wanted to show one easier contrast to Build from the League, as it it mostly uses ZEN Starship Traits.
https://www.sto-league.com/skilltree-suggestion/ --how ready to evolve depends on where you are.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Console_-_Bioneural_Infusion_Circuits/Info [200 Lobi]
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Ability:_Point_Defense_Bombardment_Warhead [900 Lobi]
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Console_-_Tachyokinetic_Converter/Info [200 Lobi]
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Atlas_Prototype_Dreadnought_Cruiser [900 Lobi]
for the:
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Console_-_Universal_-_Dynamic_Power_Redistributor_Module/Info
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Breen_Plesh_Tral_Heavy_Raider [Epic Phoenix] for Starship Trait.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Denorios_Bajoran_Interceptor [Epic Phoenix] for Console.
♥ Still learning how to use Keybinds/hotkeys to PROC 2-4 abilities will also help you improve, even using a balanced Skill Tree.
So just contrast your decision which way to go, how close you are to obtaining the consoles shown above.
Note: I could move the Lukari Console up to where League shows the Nausicaan Console; both are from Gameplay, then adding 1 more Fleet Plasma down below too. Still if you focus most your Bridge Officer abilities, on what League finds most beneficial for each ship, I think that will help a lot too even with a Balanced / Budget build! Not to mention learning keybinds/hotkeys to regularly PROC 2-3 different abilities too.
I choose this example to show mostly how ready people are to evolve from a Good Balanced Build to perhaps something closer to the League. Most ENG consoles, and 50% Sci consoles are Lobi there. Yet this is a good example, as all Starship Traits are mostly ZEN. Most of the (DPS League) advise is SOLID, just how far everyone takes it is up to them; many DPS builds often use more Lobi/Lockbox/Promo ship consoles, or Starship Traits, than shown here. And the biggest gain's are often Lockbox/Promo ship Epic consoles that one push unleash a lot of DPS, even if you got to wait 2m for them to refresh. Why they use the one Borg run at Elite, for DPS #'s, as it's faster with lots of enemy nearby.
Everyone needs to gauge there own readiness for the next step; it's a big decision for most.
@husanakx The one thing we agree on though is the 2 in Hull Capacity, perhaps you use the Elite Colony Deflector too. Just slight variations on a similar Balanced theme.
Thank you for posting my favorite starter skill tree. The skill tree for the Arbiter you linked is the same as the tactical template I've been using for several years as a base template for all sorts of builds.
I don't think using that skill tree or build has anything to do with Lobi consoles or Lockbox/Promo ships. It has worked fine for me using storyline and reputation stuff along with a few Zen store and event starship traits. I finally got my first Lobi consoles in early 2022.
The BIC adds CrtD, the Tachyokinetic Converter adds CrtH, the Point Defense console gives it's passives, a clicky, and a 2 piece CAT1 bonus to it's respective set. There are many reputation and affordable exchange consoles that do about the same thing without spending Lobi or getting fancy Lockbox/Promo ships. The fancy things might be nice to own but they are not the key to success or using a more focused skill tree.
I do think it's very timely and wise of you to mention "the journey" though as I believe that particular skill tree is part of the journey from a balanced skill tree to something more focused.
My first contact with that skill tree happened after wanting to improve my ships in normal and advanced PvE game play. It was only part of the journey though. The other two parts were using cooldown reduction and easing the load of boff ability actuation via a keybind to increase focus. But this thread is about skill trees.
There's probably a lot of players who have more than one character. It's entirely a personal choice how each character is spec'd and if it's a requirement that each of them are able to do everything that's perfectly ok there's a balanced skill tree that'll work perfectly fine for you.
My own preference as a starting template for directed energy builds is the one mentioned above. By moving a few skill points around it seems to be a good template for mixed and science builds also.
To insert what is only my personal opinion on a few things mentioned above...
The link to a 2016 league sample skill tree above by Sea may be outdated in that it might have come at a time where Drain was used to increase power gains from the plasmonic leech (it's been nerfed) and the Discovery rep trait Tyler's Duality (CrtH based upon hull) wasn't out yet. You might be better off using the Arbiter or tactical template link above or going to one of their main pages.
I don't think any skill points are needed in Control or Drain for builds that don't use these areas actively in an ability. The limited protection they provide in PvE gameplay really comes at an opportunity cost that can be served by a boff abilites and other ways. Not using them won't result in NPC's draining and placating you to death.
I do think that the buffs from the coordination protocols can be a potent thing in a team PvE environment.
I do think the ultimate clicky can be a potent thing in a team PvE environment.
I'm not entirely a believer in just taking two points into everything or all purpose builds. Focus works.
I don't think Tac Ultimate builds are squishy - the amount of regen available with a commonly used 2 piece reputation space set puts everything else we used to have to shame. There's an exchange space trait that gives about as much in damage resists as filling up all the engineering slots with neutronium alloys.
These aren't really needed though as the skill tree linked above used in conjunction with common story line consoles is overspec'd in hull capacity (over 100) and offers close to two points in hull restoration even without using the space trait Techie.
But even without these the largest gains in a ships performance, from my experience and with emphasis on durability, will likely be found in the other two things from above and not necessarily your skill tree... cool down reduction and ease of boff ability actuation to increase available focus on other things.