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the omnis need more clarity how they stack and dont stack
imelchori42
Member Posts: 80 Arc User
the system is ridiculously convoluted. apparantly there are certain types of omni directional beam arrays that can be stacked while others cant, and what works and what doesnt is nowhere mentioned within the game system.
this evening i learned, that the polaron omni from the gamma rep for some reason doesnt stack with my morphogenic energy weapon, which is labeled as a heavy turret in its tooltip.
this makes it so far the only turret ive run into that locks me out from using an omni directional beam array, while i have another relagular polaron omni already equipped with the turret that i meant to replace??? so one omni stacks with the turret while the rep omni doesnt.
like what are the rules here?
please give this item system a sweep and group the ones you cant stack together into something like "Class - A", "Class - B", and "Class - C" omnidirectional weapons to make it clear which omnis of the same class dont stack, but have omnis of different classes stack.
and either include the turret in that system, or please fix this bug if its not intended. feels pretty TRIBBLE to have dumped those reseources into a weapon thats useless.
this evening i learned, that the polaron omni from the gamma rep for some reason doesnt stack with my morphogenic energy weapon, which is labeled as a heavy turret in its tooltip.
this makes it so far the only turret ive run into that locks me out from using an omni directional beam array, while i have another relagular polaron omni already equipped with the turret that i meant to replace??? so one omni stacks with the turret while the rep omni doesnt.
like what are the rules here?
please give this item system a sweep and group the ones you cant stack together into something like "Class - A", "Class - B", and "Class - C" omnidirectional weapons to make it clear which omnis of the same class dont stack, but have omnis of different classes stack.
and either include the turret in that system, or please fix this bug if its not intended. feels pretty TRIBBLE to have dumped those reseources into a weapon thats useless.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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if its an oddball then it should say so in the tooltip somewhere. i have an omni currently equipped with this item without issues. its just the rep omni that doesnt seem to work with it.
im not a psychic. how am i supposed to know i cant stack a rep omni with it when i can stack the other omni with the item?
but this weapon in particular isnt the only problem. its the entire system that sucks, because there is no indication at all what stacks and what doesnt.
the omnis of the same type that dont stack with each other should have it somewhere in their names, or at least the tooltip.
its more complicated than that. apparantly there are 3 different groups of omnis that can stack, while omnis in the same group dont stack.
i saw it only mentioned on a youtube video once and dont remember 100% how it works anymore, but it was along the lines of
crafted + mission rewards is one group, reputation is another group, and lobi store stuff is a third group.
so you can stack up to 3 omnis on a ship if one is crafted, one is from rep, and one is from the lobi store. but you cant for example stack crafted and mission drop omnis.
this must be what happened here. the omni i have equipped with the morphogenic energy weapon is from a different group, but the rep omni must be from the same group.
the problem is, that there is no indication for how this TRIBBLE works in the game system, so you either have to find out by trial and error, or youre lucky and find videos online about it.
in this specific case its even worse, because the thing is labeled as a turret so you wouldnt expect problems at all.
Most Crafted Omni's from R&D 15+ can be paired also with a REP Omni, and that goes in addition to the Kinetic Cutting Beam as well; so it's often very simple if you think like that.
Lockbox Omni weapons can also be added in place of the Kinetic Cutting Beam, or in addition too if you want or require a 4th Omni and not using Mines / Torpedoes. Yet there's a few exceptions with them,
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Morphogenic_Armaments
Morphogenic is a bit unusual as they identified above, so generally best to look at STO Fandom Wiki for tips on the Morphogenic. But my Jem uses it I'm sure just fine with a crafted Polaron Omni, in addition to 1 - 2 from REP or ones from Missions. You just can't have two of the same type of Weapon in this case mostly two Morphogenic's I believe as said in the tooltip.
I also sometimes use the Lukari Console from it's REP as 2/3 set bonus is fairly nice, as is the Gamma REP Omni. Both offer Plasma/Polaron for Lukari, or Gamma at REP 6 offers Polaron/Phaser depending.
Though I sometimes also use the following console depending on build, yet it doesn't have an Omni.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Chronometric_Calculations_Set
Good Luck, it's not too complicated though.
thats great and all, but this is all still not intuitive and should be reflected in the items names and tooltips. there should be an ingame system that explains this, and not have players required to take guesses, or look at third party sutes like wikis, youtube videos, and forums for expalanations.
if you have to write a whole paragraph about it and link several external sources, id argue its not easy at all.
its basic game design to have your system be readable.
you should be able to tell which items stack and which dont purely by looking at them (or their tooltips).
i appreciate you trying to help but you explaining this to me now on this forum isnt going to help other players in the future not make the exact same mistake for the exact same reason, and it doesnt undo the waste of resources now either.
what exactly would be the argument here against just categorizing these kinds of items in different groups, and then including that in the name of the item itself or its tooltip, so you can tell what stacks and what doesnt by looking at the items name?
Before someone brings up "a ship can't possibly have more than 2 omnis because how do they fire through the hull?" or whatever: this is a game where turrets can do it, we create 20 kinds of space-rupturing anomalies, summon Discovery Klingons to fight alongside the federation, fly alien ships for the federation, walk around with Voth dinosaurs, etc. etc. Cue the MST3K theme song
i dont know how this works in terms of balancing, and im not even trying to argue that.
im literally just advocating for adding this mechanic to the items name or tooltip to add some clarity, and so you can just tell what stacks and what doesnt without having to consult a wiki.
im kinda shocked this hasnt been done before as it would take practically no efford to do.
Actually, you bring up a point that is logically limited as you said. Turrets can fire in a 360deg sphere, which makes no sense logically (i.e. the turret on the port side would shoot through the hull to hit the Klingons off the starboard bow). A beam weapon is described as an array or a emplacement (bank). An array can have any number of emitters (not just one, even the Galaxy's main phaser arrays are multiple-emitter and demonstrably multi-beam) spread over the hull, where an emplacement would indicate a fixed or semi-fixed field of fire. It logically makes MORE sense for arrays to fire 360deg than turrets.
IMO the Kinetic Cutting Beam is probably just viewed as a kinetic turret since we had no Omnis back then.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Also for crafted omnis, you must craft at Mark XII instead of Mk II, using much more expensive mats and dil, then wait a day. You need special doffs for this so you might only be able to craft 1 per day.
Trying to get a nice Pen or Over mod (which must be gotten at craft time) is 100 times harder than crafting a pile of Mk II beam arrays, cannons, or turrets.
Getting the Omni to epic is also more extensive in dil since you lose the 10 cheap shots at a quality increase going from Mk II to Mk XII.
If the restrictions are never going to be lifted then the tooltips should be changed to something like "Can only equip 1 standard omni beam" and "Can only equip 1 set omni beam".
that is not correct. essentially you have crafted and you have everything else,with the exception of the KCB. you cannot put more than 1 lobi, mission or rep omni together
Still generally I follow mostly this, as I said previously...
"Most Crafted Omni's from R&D 15+ or purchased via Exchange, can be paired also with a REP Omni, and that goes in addition to the Kinetic Cutting Beam as well; so it's often very simple if you think like that."
NOTE: only slightly revised, to indicate if your R&D isn't at 15, you can buy them on the Exchange.
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Omni_beam
╘ from the 6 standard types.
well i did say that im not sure exactly on how it works in that post.
but my point still stands. its an invisible mechanic that is not intuitive. you have to look this stuff up to know this.
there is no ingame explanation or system that makes it clear how these items stack or dont stack. this means unless you actually try and figure it out for yourself you cant possibly know that this mechanic even exists.
with the morphogenic energy weapon its even worse since even if you figure out the mechanic around the omnis, there is suddenly this turret that doesnt behave like it should.
there needs to be more clarity around this mechanic. any player should be able to know if these items stack or not just by looking at them. the way its currently done is quite frankly TRIBBLE design.
i want to make clear again at this point that im not even expecting the mechanic itself to change. just have it somewhere readable in the items name or tooltip. it has to be self explanatory.