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FED Ship for my 2nd Ton
jinno1993
Member Posts: 101 Arc User
in The Shipyard
Ok, I know I still have "work in progress" written on my 1st ton, but now I feed the urge to spend some time with my 2nd one (especially since it's under levelled and it's hard to do TFOs).
I'm about to reach T6 in 5 Reps, which means I'll have access to 5 Fleet Module (and due to the event, I'm going to get Experimental Upgrade Token) so I'll have a nice T6 Fleet Ship.
Now here's the problem: I loved Kholl'r Warbird so I should love the FED counterpart (Hoover). But I don't. That ship is UGLY. I REFUSE to fly a ship like that.
SHIPS I LOVE:
- Cardenas/Buran: it's amazing and beutiful (and it was Lorca's Ship
) but it's an ENG ship and I've never flyed anything non-TAC. I wouldn't know how to fly and how to build it. Also, I love weapons-damage and I'd feel underpowered compared to a TAC Ship.
If I'd have a good build which would equal a TAC Ship in damage, I'd surely go with this. But I doubt there is
- Akira class: eh, I have a nice experience with this kind of ships, but Honestly I don't know ... low Shield Mod, only 4 Fore Weapons ...
- Engle Cless: this is slightly better, with 5 fore weapons ... don't like design too much, honestly, but I can live with that. Only problems are: 4 TAC Consoles and the BOFF Seats (too few TAC seats).
Please, help me choose !
I'm about to reach T6 in 5 Reps, which means I'll have access to 5 Fleet Module (and due to the event, I'm going to get Experimental Upgrade Token) so I'll have a nice T6 Fleet Ship.
Now here's the problem: I loved Kholl'r Warbird so I should love the FED counterpart (Hoover). But I don't. That ship is UGLY. I REFUSE to fly a ship like that.
SHIPS I LOVE:
- Cardenas/Buran: it's amazing and beutiful (and it was Lorca's Ship
) but it's an ENG ship and I've never flyed anything non-TAC. I wouldn't know how to fly and how to build it. Also, I love weapons-damage and I'd feel underpowered compared to a TAC Ship.If I'd have a good build which would equal a TAC Ship in damage, I'd surely go with this. But I doubt there is
- Akira class: eh, I have a nice experience with this kind of ships, but Honestly I don't know ... low Shield Mod, only 4 Fore Weapons ...
- Engle Cless: this is slightly better, with 5 fore weapons ... don't like design too much, honestly, but I can live with that. Only problems are: 4 TAC Consoles and the BOFF Seats (too few TAC seats).
Please, help me choose !
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I love the Buran, but it's not for me in this game.
Also, I don't want to spend money atm, so I'll skip the arbiter for now.
The best would be a Mirror Engle, but prices are crazy ... i'm not going to spend 1 Billion (BILLION) for a ship.
I think I'll stick with a fleet akira (T6).
I've made a "start" build idea with Planner: https://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/c94af8a69a54d86471a805efaf702b32
As you can see, I'd like to go with beams here. Just need a couple advices to complete it.
And ... YEAH, I know I should ALWAYS go with EPtW3 but ... I'll have no RSP then (and I won't have the Valdore Console either here) ... so I'll waste a slot for a +10 Weapons Damage (which is good, don't take me wrong) but the point is that EPtW is a skill that can fit in an Ens slot ... RSP can't.
And I need RSP to stay alive (and keep firing), don't I ?
If you really like the Buran/Cardenas, but want something with more teeth, I'd highly recommend it's little brother, the Shepard/Gagarin Battlecruiser. The fleet version comes with 5 potential tactical consoles out of the box and can run 6 with a TX upgrade. Additionally, with access to miracle worker powers, you're able to surpass the damage output of most dedicated tactical ships via Narrow Sensor Bands and Mixed Armament Synergy. It is quite sluggish compared to escorts, but it's also quite tanky in exchange. (Going with Pilot as your primary specialization will fix most of the maneuvering drawbacks and make you incredibly resilient in the process.)
Other suggestions would be:
Fleet Magee/Shran for Pilot Maneuvers and Raider Flanking.
Fleet Comet/Titan for a ship that can change between being a science ship and escort at will - you can build for either or both.
EDIT: ah, cannot buy ...
hope it would be in Phoenix Lock Box sooner or later ... but now I need a solid starship for a 2nd ton. It doesn't have to be the best around, but just a good ship for TFOs and farm dil.
RE-EDIT: The Cometh/Luna looks nice (always loved the Titan - even tho is not as cool as the Akira or the Buran) but is it better than the fleet Akira ?
I mean, I'm still going to use it as an Escort anyway, so ... how will it be better than an actual Escort that even has an hangar bay ?
BTW, Buran is more beautiful
(Akira was my 2nd favourite in trek and 1st in STO for long time ... too bad Devs don't show her the love she deserves)
Here's an Akira photon build I saw online a while ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/miamb9/uss_photon_a_500k_dps_canon_themed_akira_pure/
As for the Buran, I also like its looks, but only having access to lieutenant tactical abilities is a huge disadvantage. Maybe a beam overload build is your best choice here, but this also works better on a different ship.
I think the post above was referring to the Prime-Universe-Gagarin, which is a pretty good battlecruiser and currently available, rather than the event-exclusive Mirror Gagarin warship.
+1. The Gagarin/Fleet Shepard is a beast of a ship with beams or cannons
Actually, the Shepard does have a lots of points:
- Cruiser Commands (WSE - very good, since I can't access Arbiter Trait, nor Valdore Set).
- Very bulky (which is something I appreciate)
- 8 Weapons Slot, 5 front (which, again, is something I appreciate)
- Miracle Worker Cmd Slot...
Honestly, I like it very much.
Its just ... how should I build it ?
I already have Mk XV UR Quantum Phase Dual Heavy Cannons, so I think I'll go for a Cannon Build ... Just hope it will work
this is the starting idea, but it still needs everything.
suggestion for Dish/Engines/Core/Shield ?
EDIT: I'd even like to try Lorca's Set (Console + DBB) but then I'll have to switch to a beam build ... I could, but I'm not sure
If you have the Morrigu on a Romulan it can be used on a Fed to get Emergency Weapon Cycle
A cannon build will work exceptionally well
Gagarin Cannon Build
Three items shown that can be hard to get - D.O.M.I.N.O., Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, and Weaponized Helical Torsion have some good alternatives - Approaching Agony, Assimilated Module, House Martok Defensive Configuration.
Things to consider -
You may want to try a slightly different skill tree than the one used on your other character. The one shown is good for cannons, beams, and torpedo.
The Quantum Phase DHC's aren't worth upgrading further than your current UR.
There's no need to carry over your crafted Conductive RCS and Exotic Particle Field Exciter... it's time to let them go and try something new.
Well I need them to get a 400% PTR ... or isn't it that important ?
The RCS will still be useful for turn rate, isn't it ? If I have to run a Cannon Cruiser, I would need it.
I was even thinking about taking 2 Bellum RCS from Discovery Rep Store (Crt Chance and Turn Rate).
No, getting your build to 400% PTR is not important.
Just to be absolutely clear, +EPS modifier Conductive RCS consoles haven't seen active use in builds for quite a few years.
The Reinforced Armaments console from the storyline gives +53.3% PTR and +20 each to Hull Restoration and Hull Capacity at Mark 12 and is the best choice for this build given it has a 2 piece set bonus in addition to doing 3 other things.
The PTR rate for the build listed above with guilded components is 280.63 (2 points in skill tree + above console + deflector) which is more than adequate in combination with EPtW 3 and overcapping weapons power.
For turn rate look to the Hydrodynamics Compensator and House Martok Defensive Configuration consoles as both of them add far more than just turn to your build. In addition there is the Competitive engines and Emergency Power to Engines 1 resetting Evasive Maneuvers with use of an Emergency Conn Hologram.
Bellium consoles would be helpful as temporary fillers only and would not be worth even a single upgrade.
Are there better ways to build a Gagarin? Possibly but doubtful
Well, if PTR is not that important anymore, I'd swap them in my main ton as well.
2 free console slots to fill now
As for this ship, I think I'll go with Hydro-Dynamic for the 2pc Set Bonus with the Turret, but I'm not sure about the House Martok Console... I mean, the bonuses are great, but it disturbs me a lot to a have a single piece of a set
- Reinforced Armaments
- House Martok Defensive Configuration
2 consoles... 8 useful bonuses to your stats... for free. That's one heck of a good deal unless you have Lobi to spendWhat I find disturbing is how quickly the hostile alien ships blow up
Here's a recap of what works very well for me in a Gagarin or any phaser cannon build -
The skill tree is a variant of the tactical template but with one point from targeting and two points from defense put into projectile training.
Combined with the single point into EPG it should serve you well without any future respecs with anything you might want to try on a tactically orientated character focusing on directed energy damage. For example cannons, beams, beams + a torpedo, and even commonly used bridge officer abilities such as Best Served Cold, Very Cold in Space, etc. So many different possibilities, with only one skill tree.
I'll try and post a photo collage of the ships stats used in the linked Gagarin build above from my own Federation Tactical Captain. The stats seem very good in a variety of important areas. It's almost as if whoever came up with the tactical template skill tree took into consideration the most commonly used storyline and reputation sets and consoles and then arranged the skill points to be 'just right' ✔️
I'd like some set stuff, at least 2pcs T_T
Quick Question: FREE T5 SHIP: what should I take ?
This question is mainly for protoneus and wastemetals, who know my other ship.
Me, personally, I'd take:
1) Ar'kif Carrier Refit (for Focused Singularity Modulator - maybe one day I'll switch to Plasma).
2) Mogai Retrofit (to complete Valdore Set)
But honestly I don't know if there are better choices out there.
EDIT: WAIT WAIT WAIT ...
What would happen if I put on the same Ship:
- Dynamic Defense Deployment System (Mogh set)
- Ablative Hazard Shields (Mogh/Valdore set)
- Shield Absorptive Frequency Generator (Valdore set)
Would I have both set bonuses ?
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Deadly_Maneuvers_Set_(Mogh)
https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Enhanced_Weapon_Systems_Efficiency_Set
I'm seeing 4 set bonuses in the posted build. That ain't bad. If you use your Quantum Phase DHC's that would be 5. But I don't recommend those cannons aside from filling a hole for the time being as their performance is debatable when compared to other options.
I wouldn't take them above your current rarity of Ultra Rare as I don't want to trigger "sunken cost fallacy" in which guilding a weapon or console results in said item *having* to be included in a build to subconsciously justify the amount spent on it
Per my previous post the alternatives would be Lobi, usually the Bioneural Infusion Circuits or Tachyokinetic Converter.
But hold the fort... they don't have set bonuses either
I still can't see any better alternatives to the recommended House Martok console given it's price and this would include any of the 2-3 piece sets that come with ships such as the Deadly Maneuvers set.
p.s. Does this mean you'll be leaving out the Assimilated Module and Lorca console?
Oops, sorry I've always read wrong
BTW, I never liked FED cloaking device to be honest, and I fly the fleet gagarin, so I can't even port it there I think.
hmmm ... this sounds terribly wrong
BTW ...
KHOLLR WARBIRD:
I think I'll change Conductive RCS with House Martok Console.
But I will keep the particle Exciter (don't want go below 300% PTR, and also that give +20% Shield Cap.
No Lorca Console here.
Probably in the future I'll go with Disruptors, so I will have an even better use for House Martok Console.
SHEPARD:
Yeah, I'd like to try Lorca Console, but I won't feel good if I don't put at least the relative set DBB (which means I'll have to go beams ... and I can accept it, but I have to know if it's good).
Ok, I'll go House Martok and reinforced Armaments (I will have the set's Omni-Beam anyway, so I'm ok with that).
As for Assimilated Module, yes, I'm keeping it on both build (I have the KCB anyway, even tho I know it's pretty useless).
Tilly-Stamets Shields and Warp Core ... WHY ?
- The Warp Core has RIDICOULOUS Bonus (Colony is like 100 times better)
- The Shield is ... meh, not bad I guess, but there are better ones out there.
- 2pcs Set Bonus is ... useless ? I mean +120% Hull Regeneration ... really ? As far as I remember Hull Reg was useless.
The Prevailing Engine is cool, but that's more PVP Stuff ... not really needed in PVE.
I'd honesly swap this 3 components:
- Terran 3pcs bonus looks cool to heal shields: https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Terran_Task_Force_Starship_Technologies
- Nukara 2pcs + Colony Warp Core (the same as the Rom toon).
- Bajor 2pcs + Colony Warp Core
- Bajor 3pcs
Why that Tilly-Stamets Stuff ?
I'm afraid to say some of the conclusions you're coming to aren't necessarily accurate.
Consoles without set bonuses...
The Assimilated Module and Lorca Console are both top tier choices partly because they bring a multiple good things to the table but mainly it's because they add a large amount of Critical Chance. CrtH is super important in any build and players take every opportunity to grab as much as possible. These are absolutely the right choice to use by themselves with the former being a great way to fill in and the latter being the best choice in place of a final tactical console or in a T-6X slot.
Together they bring +5.1 CrtH to any build which is absolutely superb.
The Reinforced Armaments and House Martok consoles are next up as good choices for this build with the first being part of a set and the second doing five different things. They are even good choices in builds where neither of them form a set bonus as between the two consoles they provide eight useful boosts to a ships stats. These boosted ships stats will increase the survivability of your ship as well as the amount of damage it does.
Let's look at a list of what these two consoles bring to a build when used together at Mk 15 gold:
+70% PTR
+26.3 Hull Restoration
+26.3 Hull Capacity
+13.1% Maximum Hit Points
+9.8% Shield Capacity
+6.6 Shield Power
+6.6 Engine Power
+ 21% Turn Rate
Wow! All that good stuff from only 2 consoles.
PTR (also Shield Capacity & EPG)...
You don't need 300% PTR for a cannon or BFAW build. We went over this in one of your threads from last year.
The only useful thing the crafted Exotic Particle Field Exciter is doing for you in your other ship from my perspective is providing a little bit of EPG for your Best Served Cold or VCIS bridge officer abilities. This is why a point or two into EPG is usually recommended to be part of your skill tree tactical template.
Don't overlook your Strategist secondary specialization when it comes to shield capacity. It adds +10% and the House Martok adds another +9.8%. I'm not so sure if you need any more than this.
After looking at the skill tree for your Fleet Kholhr if it included a point of EPG the best value choices to make that ship more sturdy and increase the damage it does would be to include the Reinforced Arments + House Martok. Check the list of 8 things above.
As discussed above the Lorca console is perfectly OK by itself and is my own #1 choice for use on any build in place of a final tactical console either in a tac, universal, or T-6X slot.
For the Shepard the DSC reputation DBB would be great on a beam build option for this ship but it would be a poor choice to use it on a cannon build.
The reason the storyline Trilithium-Enhanced Omni-Directional Phaser Beam Array is being used on the cannon build is to proc Mixed Armaments Synergy. On a beam build a turret would be used instead.
Test results -
We are in complete agreement, the KCB is close to useless on most builds.
When testing loadouts on two ships very similar to your Kholhr in advanced difficulty patrols with the parsers linked in another thread here's what I found -
Very Cold in Space III (with the equivalent of 2 skill points into EPG or +85) did about 7% of total damage.
A rear turret did about 10%.
A Kinetic Cutting Beam did about 5%.
Given that all three items shown in the sample Shepard above have specific functions and set bonuses using the KCB in this case would likely result in a larger loss so it would be best not to use it at all.
On your other ship it represents a 50% loss as compared to a turret and was even outperformed by VCIS.
The warp core gives +Hull Cap based upon shield power. The shield gives +10% Hull Cap on it's own.
Increased hull capacity is synergistic with the space reputation trait Tyler's Duality which increases your CrtH based on your hull capacity. We already talked about CrtH. More is better. Hull Capacity also helps with your ships durability.
But that's not all
The shields increase the damage to other ships on their own.
The two piece bonus for the core and shield is +120% hull regeneration. This amount is huge and very noticeable even when cut in half during combat. It's a significant increase in durability.
It's the combination of these six things that make the 2 piece Stamets-Tilly Field Modifications Set one of the most powerful and popular sets to use. I doubt there's anything much better and encourage you to try something different on your second build.
Not true. The Prevailing engines (Fortified variant) are an important part of your ship's maneuverability even in PvE in conjunction with Emergency power to engines and the Emergency conn officer active duty doff that resets Evasive Maneuvers.
On this build it would be triggered by Engineering Team usually which also brings into play an important part of your Strategist secondary specialization that will increase your damage via a CrtH buff from Logistical Support.
Getting around a map and into a good position are important parts of PvE.
Makes it easier to line up and aim all that cannon fire power also.
I think it would be silly to use the exact same gear on two different builds as with a lot of things you never know what you're missing until you try something new.
Lorca Console: how much Crit Chance does it give ? +3% ? +3.5% ?
I'm not saying it't not good, but ... a fleet tac consoles give +2% AND +40% damage ... I mean, I'm trading a +40% damage for a +1.5% crit chance (and I already have ~40% crit chance ... with lorca I would have 41.5%: ok, good, but less damage !)
I don't know, it doesn't seem a good trade to me.
Putting it as part of a set this is better, cause I'll have a +20% crit severity which partly compensate for that -40% damage, but without that ... I don't know, it doesn't seem a good trade.
Again, I know I'm noob and stubborn, but I can't see this as a good trade.
QUICK QUESTION: where do you get Superior Romulan Operatives on FED toons ?
I've checked the embassy, but only the Tactical Blue (Male) ones are SRO, others only have subterfuge.
As for Stamets-Tilly ... ok, I'll give it a try.
Again, I don't have much dil to use, that's why I don't like trying new stuff unless I'm totally sure
I use Full Impulse for travel through maps (that's why I like high PTR) and maneuvrability may be less important if I go with beams.
As for the Turret/Omni Beam, well ... as you know I like to use 1x torpedo (Agony Phaser with my Fleet Shepard) so I can go full beams/cannons with other weapons. I'll place the torpedo on the 2nd fore slot, so 1st weapons will buff torpedo, then torpedo will buff other weapons.
@westmetals @protoneous
What can I put as 3rd aft weapon ? 3rd turret (Khollr) / 3rd something (Shepard) ?
As for turrets, I already have 2 Delphic AP Turrets (the ones that buff crt. chance) but I don't think I have a third, so probably I'll have to put a Herald one (that is if you don't know something better).
You are miles ahead of a lot of players due to the care and planning you take with your build.
Lorca console is 3.9% CrtH versus a locator with 2% CrtH (both Mk 15 gold) so is about the same as two locators.
That +40% damage a locator gives is calculated using something like base damage + 40% for each one so the way in which they add up might be less than you think after slotting several.
The Lorca console is still the best deal for your final universal, tactical, or T-6X slot, especially on a ship that, when maxed out, has 4 tac and 2 universal slots (ditto for your Kholhr).
Maybe somebody can post the exact math... there is a damage calculator somewhere... but am doing my best to try and make your Fleet Shepard the best it can be within a reasonable budget and with accurate recommendations.
The blue tac SRO's are the only ones available. A Nausicaan engineer boff from diplomacy doffing Tier 4 and the story reward Potato Head (Hierarchy) science officer are the next best choices for your bridge crew with both having the Pirate trait.
Very high PTR (300 or more) isn't going to significantly change your power recovery rate after full impulse so still isn't worth it.
This is one more reason to use Completive Engines + EPtE + Emergency Conn Officer doff. Go fast without bothering to drop out of red alert
Maneuverability is always important even though the Gagarin handles well.
A torpedo has no place on an all cannon Gagarin. You promised in another thread that your Fed toon would be all cannons so don't make me quote you
Trying different ways of doing things is important ^^
Hint - there won't be anything left for a torpedo as everything will be dead
We can chat about a beam Gagarin separately but it wouldn't require a lot of changes. All of the consoles would be the same so good value there. In the rear the two turrets and one omni are replaced with 2 omnis and 1 turret.
A torpedo would be fine with a beam Gagarin. Instead of using another energy torpedo don't rule out the Quantum Phase storyline or DSC reputation Dark Matter torpedo.
For your Kholhr - you could try a single Voth AP turret like I did with the hope it might reduce the enemy's damage, or just use any AP turret you like as the differences are minor at best.
For your all Cannon Sheppard - the weapons shown in the build link are the only ones that'll really work well as all three have set bonuses.
Let me know if you want specific suggestions for the rear on a beam Gagarin.
The same option with MAS III instead of RSP III is also available for the cannon build with possibly more damage but less tankiness without RSP. Best served cold could be used as a filler on a pure energy build.
Omni-equipping restrictions are 1 rep/mission and 1 crafted/lockbox if you go the beam route.
What I did for the rear 3 weapons on a beam build due to Omni-equipping restrictions is to replace the rear Counter Command reputation Heavy Bio-Molecular Phaser turret with a crafted phaser omni, replace the storyline Trilithium-Enhanced Phaser Omni with the Trilithium-Enhanced Phaser Turret (rewarded with from the same story) to trigger MAS, and replace the Gamma reputation Advanced Inhibiting Heavy Phaser Turret with a Gamma rep Advanced Inhibiting Omni-Directional Phaser Beam Array.
The idea was to focus on the Advanced Inhibiting Omni-Directional Beam Array proc "chance to give -10 dmg resist for 5 secs when shooting targets slower than you". It's possibly the best proc of the bunch.
Still hoping you give all cannons a try. It is just silly
The Lorca console is an item we've previously said is a best in slot choice for adding to a number of tactical consoles in a universal or T6-X slot.
Perhaps it's an even better choice for those not running fleet tactical consoles ?