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shipyard tier level restriction

sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
could you remove the tier level restriction of the shipyard to buy a fleet ship. All the new ships don't have this restriction.

ps: there is some tricks to be able to buy a ship, but it is more and more difficult to be invited temporary in a fleet
Post edited by sennahcherib on

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  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,493 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    could you remove the level restriction of the shipyard to buy a fleet ship. All the new ships don't have this restriction.

    ps: there is some tricks to be able to buy a ship, but it is more and more difficult to be invited temporary in a fleet

    The "being invited to another fleet's map" workaround for the other vendors, doesn't work for ships.

    By the restriction, do you mean the player's level, the ranking in the fleet, or the tier level of the fleet?
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    tier level of the shipyard
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,523 Arc User
    could you remove the tier level restriction of the shipyard to buy a fleet ship. All the new ships don't have this restriction.

    ps: there is some tricks to be able to buy a ship, but it is more and more difficult to be invited temporary in a fleet

    NO!!!! It would remove incentive to building the thing in the first place!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    seriously, selfish thought. + there are other incentives. Like I said in my first post, all the new ships don't have this restriction, so it is illogical to keep it for the old ships, and more free fleet ship modules used (from rep) = more fleet ship modules bought in the c-store.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,493 Arc User
    Technically the newer ships do have restrictions, they are just set to the lower tiers. The Fleet Malachowski for example is Tier 2.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,243 Community Moderator
    In order to buy a fleet ship you must be in a fleet that has the appropriate level of shipyard. All the new ships do in fact have this restriction of shipyard tier, however they've been lower on the list as pointed out by other users. Once you have access to an appropriate shipyard the fleet must have fleet ship provisions. Assuming the fleet has provisions and is the appropriate level, you must have permission to buy said items from fleet stores. That permission will be set by fleet leaders.

    If your current fleet doesn't have the appropriate level of shipyard I would advise asking your armada leaders if one of them has the appropriate level shipyard and wouldn't mind you getting a ship. Generally most of them won't care if it's someone in the armada. If you have to go outside your armada, then you will need to work out an arrangement with that particular fleet as provisions aren't free.

    The shipyard restriction is meant to be an incentive for fleets to actually level their shipyards to unlock everything. If there was no restriction there would be no incentive to go beyond tier 1. This restriction has been in place since the start of fleets and isn't going anywhere. I'm sorry you're having a hard time getting the ship you want, but they're not going to remove the restriction just because one person has been inconvenienced. Selfish is expecting a mandatory change be made to the game just because you can't get what you want right away. If you ask politely in game there are folks who may be willing to help you.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    yeah,yeah, I know all of that, so then maybe the level could be decreased at tier 2 or 3.
    'm sorry you're having a hard time getting the ship you want

    oh! no, don't worry, I have all the ships, I need (I even stopped to buy ships). this request wasn't for me. But for all the players never invited in a fleet (temporary invite) for buying a ship, that I can see in a lot of channels, sadly I can't help them myself nor my fed nor my kdf fleet are tier 5.

    btw, this request comes after the giveaway of the temporal T6 ship, I have seen players asking for an invite, and get no results. but, yes i'm totally selfish.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    That takes away another dil sink. If you're concerned for new (F2P) players then dil sinks are a good thing.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,493 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    yeah,yeah, I know all of that, so then maybe the level could be decreased at tier 2 or 3.
    'm sorry you're having a hard time getting the ship you want

    oh! no, don't worry, I have all the ships, I need (I even stopped to buy ships). this request wasn't for me. But for all the players never invited in a fleet (temporary invite) for buying a ship, that I can see in a lot of channels, sadly I can't help them myself nor my fed nor my kdf fleet are tier 5.

    btw, this request comes after the giveaway of the temporal T6 ship, I have seen players asking for an invite, and get no results. but, yes i'm totally selfish.

    If someone can't get into a fleet with a decently leveled shipyard, they're either not trying hard enough, or they are openly looking to do so only "temporarily" and as such are being ignored because they will be consuming provisions that have a cost to generate while not being willing to help pay the costs of generating them. (i.e. they are literally asking to use things that have a cost, for free, meaning they are intending to steal from other players.)

    While I *do* have invite access to multiple maxed-out Fed fleets, and also one KDF fleet that has a T5 shipyard and another (of which I am the sole leader) at T4... I would never ever invite someone who explictly is asking to join temporarily just to shop.

    And yes I know the counter-argument "but they would need fleet credits"... actually not true, because they may have the credits already.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,243 Community Moderator
    oh! no, don't worry, I have all the ships, I need (I even stopped to buy ships). this request wasn't for me. But for all the players never invited in a fleet (temporary invite) for buying a ship, that I can see in a lot of channels, sadly I can't help them myself nor my fed nor my kdf fleet are tier 5.

    btw, this request comes after the giveaway of the temporal T6 ship, I have seen players asking for an invite, and get no results. but, yes i'm totally selfish.

    Then what exactly is the problem here and point of this thread?

    Unless they simply do not care, 99% of the fleets in this game aren't going to give away their provisions for free. It takes time and resources to generate the provisions necessary for fleet ships. Unless someone is willing to help generate provisions or help cover the costs of what they intend to use, they have no right to those provisions in my book. You want it you have to earn it. How other fleets conduct their affairs is their business.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 656 Arc User
    @sennahcherib said:
    > seriously, selfish thought. + there are other incentives. Like I said in my first post, all the new ships don't have this restriction, so it is illogical to keep it for the old ships, and more free fleet ship modules used (from rep) = more fleet ship modules bought in the c-store.

    Is this a rare moment of introspection, or are you insinuating the contributing members of fleets are being selfish?
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,647 Arc User
    I'd go totally against the bashing consensus here abd agree with the OP. What's the point of locking old, underpowered ships to T5 yards when new specialist ships only need T2?
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,243 Community Moderator
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I'd go totally against the bashing consensus here abd agree with the OP. What's the point of locking old, underpowered ships to T5 yards when new specialist ships only need T2?

    What is considered "underpowered" is largely subjective. This would simply remove a dilithium sink in the game and further spiral dilithium inflation out of control.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,647 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    > @darkbladejk said:
    > What is considered "underpowered" is largely subjective. This would simply remove a dilithium sink in the game and further spiral dilithium inflation out of control.

    I personally think the fear of losing dilithium sinks is generally overexaggerated. After 12 years, the big fleets have maxed out and the small or one-person ones probably never will. I would guess the amount of new fleets that are founded and leveled up to T5 is quite small. So it's basically just an inconvenience at this point.

    Yes, power is subjective, but why does someone who wants a fleet Sovereign have to wait to T5 and invest a lot more resources than someone who wants a fleet Miranda, which even comes with Spec seats? It simply isn't adequate any more (disclaimer: Sovereign and Miranda are only examples here, it doesn't matter if those ships are actually available at those tiers)
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,493 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I'd go totally against the bashing consensus here abd agree with the OP. What's the point of locking old, underpowered ships to T5 yards when new specialist ships only need T2?

    I'm not disagreeing with that, in concept... if the devs want to do something like that, fine.

    I do very much care about the fact that he's basically advocating theft and bashing established, in many cases maxed out fleets, for not allowing players to steal their fleet ship provisions. Because "(temporary invite) for buying a ship" translates to "I'm just joining to buy stuff!"... but the vendor requires provisions that have a cost to generate.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,243 Community Moderator
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I personally think the fear of losing dilithium sinks is generally overexaggerated. After 12 years, the big fleets have maxed out and the small or one-person ones probably never will. I would guess the amount of new fleets that are founded and leveled up to T5 is quite small. So it's basically just an inconvenience at this point.

    Yes, power is subjective, but why does someone who wants a fleet Sovereign have to wait to T5 and invest a lot more resources than someone who wants a fleet Miranda, which even comes with Spec seats? It simply isn't adequate any more (disclaimer: Sovereign and Miranda are only examples here, it doesn't matter if those ships are actually available at those tiers)

    Likewise I can also say, why should this be changed for everyone in the game and a sink be removed because one guy doesn't like having to wait? I get it, it sucks having to wait, but people have options if they absolutely want the ship. They may not like those options, but the options still exist. New fleets are created quite regularly. Also one of my beta fleets was a solo project by one of my guys that he got to level 74 before he ever brought it into my armada. So this idea that it can't be done is bogus. We can debate stats all day long but that doesn't address the core issue. Why should it change purely because some folks consider it an inconvenience they can't have their instant gratification? I'm sorry but that's what this strikes me as. When I wanted my Aquarius I waited until my fleet hit t3. Was annoying but it was done. As to why the different ships are on the different tiers they are, ask Cryptic that one. I see this ultimately doing more harm than good purely to satisfy a few impatient folks.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 656 Arc User
    @angrytarg

    We disagree completely on this one. I don't think anyone would hold back if someone made demands for no grind rep gear they expected, "now". This would be fueled by the rationale that people have to, "earn" it by playing the game, getting good, or that it wasn't fair to players who had, "worked hard" to get the same kit already. The complaints are of questionable merit because the complainant isn't losing anything. That's just sour grapes.

    You "earn" fleet gear by participating in a fleet. It involves working together, and being civil to other humans. It's one of very few life skills someone could take away from gaming, and from the way this "request" was framed, it's needed. Exploiting a game is one thing. You can rationalize your actions as a victimless crime. When you take things from people, or cut to the front of the line you're just trash.
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,881 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I personally think the fear of losing dilithium sinks is generally overexaggerated. After 12 years, the big fleets have maxed out and the small or one-person ones probably never will. I would guess the amount of new fleets that are founded and leveled up to T5 is quite small. So it's basically just an inconvenience at this point.

    Yes, power is subjective, but why does someone who wants a fleet Sovereign have to wait to T5 and invest a lot more resources than someone who wants a fleet Miranda, which even comes with Spec seats? It simply isn't adequate any more (disclaimer: Sovereign and Miranda are only examples here, it doesn't matter if those ships are actually available at those tiers)

    Likewise I can also say, why should this be changed for everyone in the game and a sink be removed because one guy doesn't like having to wait? I get it, it sucks having to wait, but people have options if they absolutely want the ship. They may not like those options, but the options still exist. New fleets are created quite regularly. Also one of my beta fleets was a solo project by one of my guys that he got to level 74 before he ever brought it into my armada. So this idea that it can't be done is bogus. We can debate stats all day long but that doesn't address the core issue. Why should it change purely because some folks consider it an inconvenience they can't have their instant gratification? I'm sorry but that's what this strikes me as. When I wanted my Aquarius I waited until my fleet hit t3. Was annoying but it was done. As to why the different ships are on the different tiers they are, ask Cryptic that one. I see this ultimately doing more harm than good purely to satisfy a few impatient folks.

    I waited over a year and a half since my fleet did not make it a priority (they seemed to be concentrating the starbase, colony, and dil mine first for some reason) which was not too much of an irritation since so many free or coupon T6s came out and I was using them with my other characters (along with grinding traits on the one waiting for the fleet ship).

    And it turns out that the wait was actually a good thing since STO gave out a T5 coupon a little while back so I picked up the c-store ranger instead (and fleet would have been wasted anyway since it was just going to be a skin for the corresponding T6) which is account bound instead of character bound so all my TOS captains could use the Ranger/Paladin instead of just one. I think the fleet reached the point where the ship would have been buyable shortly thereafter, but I stopped looking since I don't need the ship I was waiting for anymore.

    Also, one of the armadas I am in (on a different character) just recently maxed out the armada and split into two armadas to make room for new junior fleets, so yes, it is definitely not static on the fleet growth front.

  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,493 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    I waited over a year and a half since my fleet did not make it a priority (they seemed to be concentrating the starbase, colony, and dil mine first for some reason) which was not too much of an irritation since so many free or coupon T6s came out and I was using them with my other characters (along with grinding traits on the one waiting for the fleet ship).

    Probably because the dilithium mine includes discounts on dilithium project costs, and the colony includes reductions of running times of projects (and also the colony provisions have an auto-generate function after Tier 1).

    Rushing those two early, makes the entire process cheaper and faster.
    Post edited by westmetals on
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    Something else to remember: someone can now also add an extra console with a T6-X token, and they can earn that token free from events now and then.

    If fleet was good enough a few months ago then non-fleet + T6-X is too.
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