There is low supply or controlled supply(which is only possible with low supply) made to create high prices. The game does not have enough supply to keep prices lower. That is the real problem.
That problem starts at the top.
It has nothing to do with money sinks.
Only the devs can fix this problem. Assuming they want to.
I assume it needs either better chances to get items or some more complex gameplay to change the dynamics.
While I don't agree with absolutely everything in this post, you are largely correct. The problem is indeed supply and that's very basic and obvious to many of us. Scarcity raises prices, this is nothing new, look at the current real world market for electronic items like Video Cards, they're selling at triple their MSRP right now because they're scarce. The scarcity can only be addressed by players introducing more supply unless Cryptic decides to regulate the market themselves by introducing supply themselves which is unlikely. Supply is the key, but the focus needs to be on how to encourage players to inflate that supply. We can't depend on Cryptic to just put a bunch of stuff on the exchange for cheap, they simply have no reason to do that. Even if they did, it would likely get all bought up and scalped anyway.
I do think that some EC sinks would help, I just don't think that alone will be the fix.
For a healthy economy we do need to have enthusiast. And yep this game has a harder and harder time to keep those it once had.
Absolutely true. The idea that a few big spenders are carrying everyone else is not unique to STO at all, in fact it's how must MMO's actually work. Without the enthusiasts, there is no game which is why smart developers cater to those players even when the masses find that 'unfair.' The truth is, players like you are who they need to listen to most, you guys are keeping the lights on around here.
A decline in the population of the game (if in fact that is the case) would actually not have this effect, because it would equally impact supply and demand...
Absolutely true. The exception is if all the whales were the ones to leave, then things would go sideways in a hurry.
Disagreed, inflation is a part of every player driven economy across every game. Giving players the ability to have more money was a result of the inflation, not the cause.
I remember that someone once sold me a Reward Ship for a million, not a billion, because they said that the ship wasn't worth more than that. It was the most generous thing I've ever encountered in the game
That is indeed amazing and incredibly generous.
I know that Cryptic is only in this for the money
Is there something wrong with that? Last time I checked Cryptic wasn't a charity. Businesses exist to make money, we can debate the merits of how they make that money, but lets be clear that them 'making money' isn't nefarious or evil in any way.
Inflation, fine...but if you physically hadn't been able to spend over 100,000,000?
There is low supply or controlled supply(which is only possible with low supply) made to create high prices. The game does not have enough supply to keep prices lower. That is the real problem.
That problem starts at the top.
It has nothing to do with money sinks.
Only the devs can fix this problem. Assuming they want to.
I assume it needs either better chances to get items or some more complex gameplay to change the dynamics.
While I don't agree with absolutely everything in this post, you are largely correct. The problem is indeed supply and that's very basic and obvious to many of us. Scarcity raises prices, this is nothing new, look at the current real world market for electronic items like Video Cards, they're selling at triple their MSRP right now because they're scarce. The scarcity can only be addressed by players introducing more supply unless Cryptic decides to regulate the market themselves by introducing supply themselves which is unlikely. Supply is the key, but the focus needs to be on how to encourage players to inflate that supply. We can't depend on Cryptic to just put a bunch of stuff on the exchange for cheap, they simply have no reason to do that. Even if they did, it would likely get all bought up and scalped anyway.
I do think that some EC sinks would help, I just don't think that alone will be the fix.
For a healthy economy we do need to have enthusiast. And yep this game has a harder and harder time to keep those it once had.
Absolutely true. The idea that a few big spenders are carrying everyone else is not unique to STO at all, in fact it's how must MMO's actually work. Without the enthusiasts, there is no game which is why smart developers cater to those players even when the masses find that 'unfair.' The truth is, players like you are who they need to listen to most, you guys are keeping the lights on around here.
A decline in the population of the game (if in fact that is the case) would actually not have this effect, because it would equally impact supply and demand...
Absolutely true. The exception is if all the whales were the ones to leave, then things would go sideways in a hurry.
Disagreed, inflation is a part of every player driven economy across every game. Giving players the ability to have more money was a result of the inflation, not the cause.
I remember that someone once sold me a Reward Ship for a million, not a billion, because they said that the ship wasn't worth more than that. It was the most generous thing I've ever encountered in the game
That is indeed amazing and incredibly generous.
I know that Cryptic is only in this for the money
Is there something wrong with that? Last time I checked Cryptic wasn't a charity. Businesses exist to make money, we can debate the merits of how they make that money, but lets be clear that them 'making money' isn't nefarious or evil in any way.
Inflation, fine...but if you physically hadn't been able to spend over 100,000,000?
Then you have the exact same scenario you have today.
Any item over that value would be sold exclusively in trade channels. Right now, the EC Value of Promo ships exceeds the exchange cap so those ships are traded privately.
People don't lower the price, they just distribute it a different way. If you limited the amount of EC people could carry then they would just trade stacks of keys like they used to before the cap was raised.
Why do we need to keep jacking the prices higher and higher? I think there needs to be someway to increase the value of dilithium to make it more valuable.
Right now zen is becoming the driving force in the game and is over dominating the importance of dilithium. I think the developers need to find a solution to increase dilithiums importance. Otherwise we will eventually see prices on exchange like 1,000,000 dil/zen. Cause people want to price gouge to make a profit.
The developers need to reevaluate the true value of Zen and Dilithium.
Why do we need to keep jacking the prices higher and higher? I think there needs to be someway to increase the value of dilithium to make it more valuable.
Right now zen is becoming the driving force in the game and is over dominating the importance of dilithium. I think the developers need to find a solution to increase dilithiums importance. Otherwise we will eventually see prices on exchange like 1,000,000 dil/zen. Cause people want to price gouge to make a profit.
The developers need to reevaluate the true value of Zen and Dilithium.
This particular thread is about the normal exchange and EC inflation, not the current dilithium crash. There are two other threads for THAT issue:
Why do we need to keep jacking the prices higher and higher? I think there needs to be someway to increase the value of dilithium to make it more valuable.
Right now zen is becoming the driving force in the game and is over dominating the importance of dilithium. I think the developers need to find a solution to increase dilithiums importance. Otherwise we will eventually see prices on exchange like 1,000,000 dil/zen. Cause people want to price gouge to make a profit.
The developers need to reevaluate the true value of Zen and Dilithium.
This particular thread is about the normal exchange and EC inflation, not the current dilithium crash. There are two other threads for THAT issue:
I think a lot of the rising cost of lockbox loot is just a supply issue that could be alleviated very quickly with a suggestion that has been offered many times before: make the choice pack prizes tradable.
Ships that are widely desirable are cheaper and sell quickly, while niche choices can see prices 50% higher or just aren't posted. My go-to example is the T6 Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer. Basically never posted or posted for 1.3-1.5b when someone has one to sell. Compare to like <900m for the divergence choice pack that has ships people actually like. Just let people trade the T6 Infinity Prize pack directly and the accessibility goes way up and makes everyone's life easier. Its a switch they could flip overnight and its baffling that they refuse to.
Fairly easy to do, would likely drive prices down quite a bit to a more stable range. Also would probably be reasonable for Cryptic to try to do.
2. Increase the drop rates substantially
Now I'm not saying to make the drop rates something crazy like 10% (Though that wouldn't be too bad), but increase them considerably. The higher the drop rates the more supply there would be. This would also probably work out better for cryptic, people are more willing to spend money when the odds are actually GOOD, You don't have to have abysmal odds meant to force people to spend more, when you make them the odds good enough to where they WANT to spend more.
The problem with this option is, Cryptic is under the impression that lockboxes will only be very profitable if the odds are so awful that you'd have to waste money to get what you want. So its unlikely to happen.
I still remember the days before the energy cap unlock existed. The most we could ever spend was...15 million was it? I remember once selling something and it took it over the limit and I don't know how much I lost.
It's utterly demoralizing though to see ships on the Exchange now for a billion, or even 400 million.
And I've actually got loads of the Infinity weapon choice packs, but so many of the types aren't even on there, so I don't know what's in demand or is even fun to use myself.
I've been playing for a decade, so I know how the system works, but it must be so demoralizing (and it is still for me) to see how expensive things are and not be able to afford them. If you never plan to buy Zen and just want to play the game for fun, then you're not able to enjoy things that STO put so much effort into creating. It just seems like such a waste of their time if they don't make these things more available.
It is also very naughty with the T6 ship reward tokens, because of course they don't work on the latest ships. I'm not sure how long it'll be before you can claim one of those, but by then, there'll be even more released and people just won't be bothered about what they'd enjoy now. Very cheeky, I must say.
Anytime anyone wants to sell something for the established and widely accepted market value and dares to make a coin or two on the transaction.. it's greed.
Are there people that fit the mold? sure.. you could argue that finding something on the exchange that is only available in a limited quantity, buying up that quantity and then re-listing it at the inflated price is greedy.. sure.
But spending hundreds of millions on keys to win a ship and then selling it to make up your losses and hopefully make a little on top is not greed. It's hilarious how little some people understand about exchange sales. People selling promo ships aren't making nearly as much as you think they are. In fact, most times.. unless you get really lucky with RnG, most people selling ships barely break even.
But sure.. you just keep sitting back in the shadows crying about everything you don't have an lashing out at those that do. That seems to fit your agenda nicely.
You take to the victim mentality like a fish to water.
Anytime anyone wants to sell something for the established and widely accepted market value and dares to make a coin or two on the transaction.. it's greed.
Are there people that fit the mold? sure.. you could argue that finding something on the exchange that is only available in a limited quantity, buying up that quantity and then re-listing it at the inflated price is greedy.. sure.
But spending hundreds of millions on keys to win a ship and then selling it to make up your losses and hopefully make a little on top is not greed. It's hilarious how little some people understand about exchange sales. People selling promo ships aren't making nearly as much as you think they are. In fact, most times.. unless you get really lucky with RnG, most people selling ships barely break even.
But sure.. you just keep sitting back in the shadows crying about everything you don't have an lashing out at those that do. That seems to fit your agenda nicely.
You take to the victim mentality like a fish to water.
Look around the world, it's greed that makes this world the tribble hole it is.
Anytime anyone wants to sell something for the established and widely accepted market value and dares to make a coin or two on the transaction.. it's greed.
Are there people that fit the mold? sure.. you could argue that finding something on the exchange that is only available in a limited quantity, buying up that quantity and then re-listing it at the inflated price is greedy.. sure.
But spending hundreds of millions on keys to win a ship and then selling it to make up your losses and hopefully make a little on top is not greed. It's hilarious how little some people understand about exchange sales. People selling promo ships aren't making nearly as much as you think they are. In fact, most times.. unless you get really lucky with RnG, most people selling ships barely break even.
But sure.. you just keep sitting back in the shadows crying about everything you don't have an lashing out at those that do. That seems to fit your agenda nicely.
You take to the victim mentality like a fish to water.
Look around the world, it's greed that makes this world the tribble hole it is.
Possibly but this isn't greed here its basic supply and demand which is not greed. Its not even pure inflation as there is plenty of deflation as well depending on what we are looking at. While there is certainly inflation compared to 4+ years ago what I have noticed over the past year or two is more deflation at least in the areas I trade in.
Anytime anyone wants to sell something for the established and widely accepted market value and dares to make a coin or two on the transaction.. it's greed.
Are there people that fit the mold? sure.. you could argue that finding something on the exchange that is only available in a limited quantity, buying up that quantity and then re-listing it at the inflated price is greedy.. sure.
But spending hundreds of millions on keys to win a ship and then selling it to make up your losses and hopefully make a little on top is not greed. It's hilarious how little some people understand about exchange sales. People selling promo ships aren't making nearly as much as you think they are. In fact, most times.. unless you get really lucky with RnG, most people selling ships barely break even.
But sure.. you just keep sitting back in the shadows crying about everything you don't have an lashing out at those that do. That seems to fit your agenda nicely.
You take to the victim mentality like a fish to water.
Look around the world, it's greed that makes this world the tribble hole it is.
People aren't going to sell things for a loss unless they need it gone and that's the only way to get rid of it. Expenses + a reasonable mark up is not greed, it's the fair market price.
For what it's worth, I put up a nice chunk of dil yesterday and it had sold when I logged in today. Less than 24 hours isn't a big deal, but if that time frame grows to weeks-months like Neverwinter that would be a completely different story. Hopefully they will do something to prevent that from happening.
Comments
Inflation, fine...but if you physically hadn't been able to spend over 100,000,000?
Then you have the exact same scenario you have today.
Any item over that value would be sold exclusively in trade channels. Right now, the EC Value of Promo ships exceeds the exchange cap so those ships are traded privately.
People don't lower the price, they just distribute it a different way. If you limited the amount of EC people could carry then they would just trade stacks of keys like they used to before the cap was raised.
Right now zen is becoming the driving force in the game and is over dominating the importance of dilithium. I think the developers need to find a solution to increase dilithiums importance. Otherwise we will eventually see prices on exchange like 1,000,000 dil/zen. Cause people want to price gouge to make a profit.
The developers need to reevaluate the true value of Zen and Dilithium.
This particular thread is about the normal exchange and EC inflation, not the current dilithium crash. There are two other threads for THAT issue:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1262374/dilithium-exchange-maxed-out
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1262413/is-the-dilithium-exchange-disabled
Ooops my bad. Got the two exchanges mixed up. But yeah the EC exchange is over inflated in price too.
Ships that are widely desirable are cheaper and sell quickly, while niche choices can see prices 50% higher or just aren't posted. My go-to example is the T6 Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer. Basically never posted or posted for 1.3-1.5b when someone has one to sell. Compare to like <900m for the divergence choice pack that has ships people actually like. Just let people trade the T6 Infinity Prize pack directly and the accessibility goes way up and makes everyone's life easier. Its a switch they could flip overnight and its baffling that they refuse to.
1. Make the Infinity Prize Packs tradeable.
Fairly easy to do, would likely drive prices down quite a bit to a more stable range. Also would probably be reasonable for Cryptic to try to do.
2. Increase the drop rates substantially
Now I'm not saying to make the drop rates something crazy like 10% (Though that wouldn't be too bad), but increase them considerably. The higher the drop rates the more supply there would be. This would also probably work out better for cryptic, people are more willing to spend money when the odds are actually GOOD, You don't have to have abysmal odds meant to force people to spend more, when you make them the odds good enough to where they WANT to spend more.
The problem with this option is, Cryptic is under the impression that lockboxes will only be very profitable if the odds are so awful that you'd have to waste money to get what you want. So its unlikely to happen.
It's utterly demoralizing though to see ships on the Exchange now for a billion, or even 400 million.
And I've actually got loads of the Infinity weapon choice packs, but so many of the types aren't even on there, so I don't know what's in demand or is even fun to use myself.
I've been playing for a decade, so I know how the system works, but it must be so demoralizing (and it is still for me) to see how expensive things are and not be able to afford them. If you never plan to buy Zen and just want to play the game for fun, then you're not able to enjoy things that STO put so much effort into creating. It just seems like such a waste of their time if they don't make these things more available.
It is also very naughty with the T6 ship reward tokens, because of course they don't work on the latest ships. I'm not sure how long it'll be before you can claim one of those, but by then, there'll be even more released and people just won't be bothered about what they'd enjoy now. Very cheeky, I must say.
.....GREED.
A typically short sided and ignorant reply.
Anytime anyone wants to sell something for the established and widely accepted market value and dares to make a coin or two on the transaction.. it's greed.
Are there people that fit the mold? sure.. you could argue that finding something on the exchange that is only available in a limited quantity, buying up that quantity and then re-listing it at the inflated price is greedy.. sure.
But spending hundreds of millions on keys to win a ship and then selling it to make up your losses and hopefully make a little on top is not greed. It's hilarious how little some people understand about exchange sales. People selling promo ships aren't making nearly as much as you think they are. In fact, most times.. unless you get really lucky with RnG, most people selling ships barely break even.
But sure.. you just keep sitting back in the shadows crying about everything you don't have an lashing out at those that do. That seems to fit your agenda nicely.
You take to the victim mentality like a fish to water.
Look around the world, it's greed that makes this world the tribble hole it is.
Looks like I have just been lambasted. *points above*
People aren't going to sell things for a loss unless they need it gone and that's the only way to get rid of it. Expenses + a reasonable mark up is not greed, it's the fair market price.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
GIVE ME GENESIS!!!!
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Congrats.. I was starting to worry that you didn't have enough ships.
> Congrats.. I was starting to worry that you didn't have enough ships.
Don’t worry. All ships are mine for as long as I can get them with a working exchange.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.