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STO, Trans and Gender Non-Binary
kayajay
Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
Discovery is even addressing it, but when will STO allow characters to even (and I'm going to use air-quotes here) "cross-dress"?
Personally, I'd like there to be a neither male nor female gender option of character, OR for characters to choose their physical characteristics.
I also don't see that why in the world of Skants, we don't get a choice of male or female costumes, regardless of whether our toons are male or female. Why can't I have a male Ferengi toon with female earrings and the sleazy top? Or, why can't he wear a bikini top! It would be my choice on how to dress, but instead, we have gender specific clothing.
You've got Will Smith's son in dresses, in 2021 it's not taboo for women to wear trousers, so why in the 25th and with Discovery 33rd Century, aren't we allowed to wear what we want? And since Bashir proved that gender reassignment isn't even a big deal, to have the anatomy that we want our characters to have?
P.S.
I really wish the female characters didn't run that way, because I don't any women who do that.
Personally, I'd like there to be a neither male nor female gender option of character, OR for characters to choose their physical characteristics.
I also don't see that why in the world of Skants, we don't get a choice of male or female costumes, regardless of whether our toons are male or female. Why can't I have a male Ferengi toon with female earrings and the sleazy top? Or, why can't he wear a bikini top! It would be my choice on how to dress, but instead, we have gender specific clothing.
You've got Will Smith's son in dresses, in 2021 it's not taboo for women to wear trousers, so why in the 25th and with Discovery 33rd Century, aren't we allowed to wear what we want? And since Bashir proved that gender reassignment isn't even a big deal, to have the anatomy that we want our characters to have?
P.S.
I really wish the female characters didn't run that way, because I don't any women who do that.
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I dgaf what someone wears. However this is absolutely correct, there is a very real logistical problem here. You have to remake every piece of clothing, and for an absolutely tiny minority that would even use the feature.
And if your char is trans, that's super easy, pick the other gender at creation. Anything else is just a fashion statement because whatever you or your character does in the bedroom is utterly irrelevant to this game.
Johnny is wonderful and I believe would have had Riker have a dalliance with another man, if the right story had come along. Wasn't it Berman though who banned TRIBBLE characters and condemned the idea of Seven being a TRIBBLE during Voyager? I personally think Picard is thumbing its nose at that having been disallowed 20-years ago.
Is there a logistical problem though? Can you give a female character a 60-inch bust, or leave her flat. You can give a male character a size zero waist and shoulders bigger than doorways and the clothing adapts. Toon are basically androgynous and it's just a matter of access to hairstyles and extras.
Oh...and the bedroom? Trans isn't a fetish done behind closed doors.
Yes, there is a logistical problem. The way the models work, clothes are fitted to a body type. You can't just put a skirt on a male body, because its a female body part. Clothes aren't items put on a doll, they are part of the doll itself. So if you want a male body wearing a skirt, that has to be built first.
And I didn't say trans is a fetish. Transgender people want to change from one gender to the other. There is a transitioning period and limitations on surgery and other stuff IRL, but in game, its easy, pick the gender you want to be. Whether your captain was born the other gender or not is irrelevant, as that never comes up in game unless you RP that.
hmm thats really interesting. are you saying they should write a storyline about our characters transitioning genders? or having their genders removed and be no gendered?
There was a campaign amongst the LGBT fanbase to have Seven be representative. If there was a reason that didn't happen then it's because it would have jeopardised Voyagers "family" rating, which is basically dictated by the "family values" brigade. There was a mass of backlash over Seven and Raffi merely holding hands, imaging how that would have been received in 1997.
The question is not without merit: we have much liberty in what the bodies of our characters can look like - as @kayajay explained quite simply but in a meaningful way - and yet their assigned "body parts" adapt to each and every iteration you can think of.
That said, unfortunately the problem still exists, because clothes are made to adapt to a body, yes, but primarily they're made to adapt to the specific sex (not gender) of that body. While I wouldn't mind liberating the tailor for everyone, and in fact I have advocated for it for a while now, I realize it would take a lot of effort to do so.
Now, if they could find a way to properly mometize such a thing in a way that goes beyond buying new uniforms off the C-Store/Lobi Store, mark my word: it'd be done in a second.
PS: saying stuff like "whatever you or your character does in the bedroom" it's fetishizing, no matter how you may think it's not, because a person being who they are is not a fetish, it's called living.
Also, people does not need a reason to exist; nor is not having a story explaining why they exist insulting to them and it sure as hell it's not "robbing consumers of story content". Allowing someone to play as a gender (or lack thereof) that represents them is not for anyone's entertainment.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
There was a backlash because the character of Seven was pretty much destroyed before that. It would have been much better if she was the Daystrom Institute scientist and not a space vigilante.
If that character type was necessary, a newly created one could have filled the role. For example, the Romulan Elf-kid. That way, Picard could have had a story-thread with him where an innocent kid turned into a jaded vengeful killer. He then tires to recover at least a glimpse of that wide-eyed kid he used to know by showing him that not everything in the galaxy is dark and evil.
The hand holding felt like it was forced just to TRIBBLE those that have a problem with SJW cancel culture and there was no narrative lead up to it. It had nothing and I repeat NOTHING to do with people being anti-bisexual. On the contrary, I know several TRIBBLE and bi people that found it to be insulting pandering.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Unfortunately, the game is 11 years old now. My understanding is that the engine is even older than that. Maybe 15 years old. Going back and adding this option unfortunately cannot be justified from a profitability standpoint. If the game were currently in development, then I'd expect some kind of option like for trans characters to be available.
Haha, well judging by everything, story wise, that's come out after ViL, Cryptic has no problem shoehorning entire story arcs into the game.
Having said that though, I would expect most people who wish to create a trans character would simply choose the gender that the character is transitioning to because that is ultimately how trans people want to be acknowledged, and explain in the character's bio that they are trans. So a trans-female character would simply be female.
As for non-binary, all that would really be necessary for that is an option to select your pronouns (which are rarely, if ever, used by NPCs). Depending on how the game was programmed to handle that eleven years ago this could either be a very easy task, or a monumental PITA that requires a complete rewrite of large amounts of code and could potentially break unrelated things.
If STO was being developed NOW then I have no doubt all of these features would be included at launch, but since STO is a fairly old game at this point I don't think they're likely to get added any time soon, if ever, due to how much work would be involved.
I don't care for Discovery personally, but it's trying to reflect today's issues (between 200 and 1000-years later, which should be a mute point) and STO is doing everything to accommodate the series, except for something so simple as what Garak's shop gives you the option of.
I'm not necessarily asking for the option of going to Dr. Bashir and have a gender reassignment in DS9'S Infirmary...but actually, I don't see why I shouldn't. I chose a male toon a decade ago, built him up with Lockbox ships, different traits, rep equipment and everything else and I'm not asking to change races and become a Liberated Romulan, but why not change sex, or at least change avatars?
The more I think about it, the more it feels like something that really should be addressed and shouldn't be as big a sticking point as it actually is.
I'm thinking my intersex race will have a warrior culture like Greek Amazons but without the need to kidnap males for reproduction purposes, while my genderless androgynous race can be a telepathic or even technopathic culture and have both races live on the same planet like the xindi-subraces.
On PlayStation, if you pick Standard (or anything other than Cute, Feminine, or Seductive), they run athletically like the guys. I used to run "that way" until I got into tennis, and actually learned how to run properly. You don't pump your arms the correct way when your feet aren't able to land and push off properly due to wearing slippers or heels. Let the people who want the "girly run" have it, we can pick one of the majority of stances. Thoughtful is the best one, anyway.
As for the gender talk, it did irk me a little when the character creation/selection thing said "change gender" instead of "change sex." My husband is a psychologist, so I was educated early on about the differences and nuances between gender and sex. But I'm guessing the original creators of the game didn't want to risk putting the word "sex" in the game during character creation in a game that children might play.
It's the same way on PC, running animation is determined by the stance you select for the costume. Because of this I never use cute, feminine, or seductive on any character or boff.
I still will like a shirtless option for male characters that aren't Orions or Gorn or tied to beach wear.
2 Males
1. Thaans
2. Chans
2 Females
1. Shen
2. Zhen
There's no physical depictions for Shen and Zhen other than they're female, while Thaans are muscular and Chans are wiry.
In some Andorian linguistic traditions, Andorians have name "prefixes" which indicate which of the four sexes they are. The "prefixes" thus encountered are as follows.
Zhen - zh' (eg. Shathrissia zh'Cheen, Charivretha zh'Thane)
Shen - sh' (eg. Pava Ek'Noor sh'Aqabaa, Avaranthi sh'Rothress)
Chan - ch' (eg. Thirishar ch'Thane, Thanashal ch'Shonnas)
Thaan - th' (eg. Thelianaresth th'Vorothishria, Shelerib th'Zharath)
"NSFW content please skim pass this if you feel uncomfortable about NSFW content you've been warned!"
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Andorian reproduction requires all four sexes but basically a Thann bangs a Shen then Chan also bangs the same Shen both Thanns and Chans are needed to fertilized a Shen's egg, the Shen carries the fetus halfway to term before transferring it over to a Zhen, Zhen are the Andorian sex that goes into labor and gives birth baby Andorians same reproductions method probably goes towards Aenar as well.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
As for what can go wrong, I point once again to the period a few years back when CO added vehicles for characters to ride in their game - and somehow broke the Global Chat function across all Cryptic games. It took weeks to figure out what the problem was and fix it. That's why I said that I support divorcing clothing from gender as soon as practical - at the moment, clearly, it's not practical, much as I'd like it.
It does seem indeed that they need to create separate uniforms for both genders in some cases.
The Dyson uniform for example looks very different when worn on female characters compared to male ones, and I believe the same applies to the Klingon lifetime uniforms.
My good friend, over on Neverwinter (that game is very unfriendly to non-binary in my opinion) created a male drow that is really a female drow in disguise. She had this for years as a Foundry story character as well, until they decided to censor all the hard work of the Foundry authors by deletion.
Go here, and check out the biography page for this character she created. Just create a male or female and then generate it in your biography.
NAIL ON THE HEAD!! As I said earlier, and others to, just RP it...use the imagination instead of expecting someone to shift the Earth just to give you 'a badge'. Most LGBTQ+ players probably don't give two hoots about this sort of request.
And as a prime example of folk using their imagination.....just look at the number of 'straight' guys that create female toons. If they are comfortable enough within themselves to do it, surely the OP can too!
aut vincere aut mori pro imperio
either to conquer or to die for the Empire