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Lore Question

Were there missions in the Klingon Campaign that went into more detail concerning how the Empire was able to sniff out Species 8472 before the Federation? The Transition from the current Klingon Campaign to the main story line is a bit abrupt

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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,693 Arc User
    Were there missions in the Klingon Campaign that went into more detail concerning how the Empire was able to sniff out Species 8472 before the Federation? The Transition from the current Klingon Campaign to the main story line is a bit abrupt

    No. IIRC There is a mention in 'Path to 2409' which details alot of 'game' lore prior.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    Essentially, Letheans are telepathic and able to force the Undine to appear in their normal forms.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Essentially, Letheans are telepathic and able to force the Undine to appear in their normal forms.

    Exactly that, the Federation's telepathic races like Vulcans need to be on really good terms with someone before initializing a mind meld, it's an intimate thing among Vulcans and it's not too be shared with random strangers, Tuvok clearly didn't get the memo, However I'm not sure about Betazoid telepathy.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,683 Arc User
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Essentially, Letheans are telepathic and able to force the Undine to appear in their normal forms.

    Exactly that, the Federation's telepathic races like Vulcans need to be on really good terms with someone before initializing a mind meld, it's an intimate thing among Vulcans and it's not too be shared with random strangers, Tuvok clearly didn't get the memo, However I'm not sure about Betazoid telepathy.
    If the Lwaxana Troi is any indication of what a typical Betazoid is they'll read your mind without prompting or asking for consent and they blurt out anything they've read.

    That said IIRC the episode correctly there's something special about Letheans telepathy and they're not just powerful telepaths but something more then that.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Essentially, Letheans are telepathic and able to force the Undine to appear in their normal forms.

    Exactly that, the Federation's telepathic races like Vulcans need to be on really good terms with someone before initializing a mind meld, it's an intimate thing among Vulcans and it's not too be shared with random strangers, Tuvok clearly didn't get the memo, However I'm not sure about Betazoid telepathy.
    If the Lwaxana Troi is any indication of what a typical Betazoid is they'll read your mind without prompting or asking for consent and they blurt out anything they've read.

    That said IIRC the episode correctly there's something special about Letheans telepathy and they're not just powerful telepaths but something more then that.

    The more than that being that they can kill by telepathy.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,683 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    spiritborn wrote: »
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Essentially, Letheans are telepathic and able to force the Undine to appear in their normal forms.

    Exactly that, the Federation's telepathic races like Vulcans need to be on really good terms with someone before initializing a mind meld, it's an intimate thing among Vulcans and it's not too be shared with random strangers, Tuvok clearly didn't get the memo, However I'm not sure about Betazoid telepathy.
    If the Lwaxana Troi is any indication of what a typical Betazoid is they'll read your mind without prompting or asking for consent and they blurt out anything they've read.

    That said IIRC the episode correctly there's something special about Letheans telepathy and they're not just powerful telepaths but something more then that.

    The more than that being that they can kill by telepathy.
    Yeah and I assume on a more resistant creature (say like one of the Undine) it would just hurt a lot, enough to force them into their true form.

    I suspect what happened was that a Lethean was sent to covertly sent to kill a KDF commander who was acting strange ( some of the Undine don't seem to be able to resist claiming what ever species they are pretending to be is weak, a huge red flag within the KDF) or the lethean was sent by a Klingon noble to eliminate a rival and instead of dying (or while dying) the Undine reverted to their true form thus exposing their infiltration.

    By contrast a Starfleet officer going on and on about how weak UFP is could be seen as having a mental breakdown and would be put on leave not killed. So there's less of a risk for the Undine infiltrator to expose themselves due to arrogance.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    spiritborn wrote: »
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    spiritborn wrote: »
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Essentially, Letheans are telepathic and able to force the Undine to appear in their normal forms.

    Exactly that, the Federation's telepathic races like Vulcans need to be on really good terms with someone before initializing a mind meld, it's an intimate thing among Vulcans and it's not too be shared with random strangers, Tuvok clearly didn't get the memo, However I'm not sure about Betazoid telepathy.
    If the Lwaxana Troi is any indication of what a typical Betazoid is they'll read your mind without prompting or asking for consent and they blurt out anything they've read.

    That said IIRC the episode correctly there's something special about Letheans telepathy and they're not just powerful telepaths but something more then that.

    The more than that being that they can kill by telepathy.
    Yeah and I assume on a more resistant creature (say like one of the Undine) it would just hurt a lot, enough to force them into their true form.

    I suspect what happened was that a Lethean was sent to covertly sent to kill a KDF commander who was acting strange ( some of the Undine don't seem to be able to resist claiming what ever species they are pretending to be is weak, a huge red flag within the KDF) or the lethean was sent by a Klingon noble to eliminate a rival and instead of dying (or while dying) the Undine reverted to their true form thus exposing their infiltration.

    By contrast a Starfleet officer going on and on about how weak UFP is could be seen as having a mental breakdown and would be put on leave not killed. So there's less of a risk for the Undine infiltrator to expose themselves due to arrogance.

    The Undine has a best chance at infiltrating the UFP, they wouldn't make it pass Romulan space due to Romulan paranoia and their Reman allies telepathy, Romulan telepathy is dormant but that can be remedied by training the Vulcan side they had locked away like Nero, and gods have mercy on any Undine that tries to infiltrate the Dominion.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Yeah and I assume on a more resistant creature (say like one of the Undine) it would just hurt a lot, enough to force them into their true form.

    The Path to 2409: Volume 22, Chapter 3

    On Qo'noS, the Klingon High Council was rocked by the revelation that Councilor Konjah was an Undine.

    What Starfleet Intelligence learned about the situation is this. After a night of revelry in the First City, Konjah was walking with two other Klingons back to his lodgings when he was attacked by Lethean mercenaries. The telepathic assault forced Konjah to lose his humanoid form, and he shifted into his true appearance.

    The Undine masquerading as Konjah was killed, and his body taken to the High Council chambers. Chancellor J'mpok then stripped the House of Konjah of its titles and status, and its members were either killed or forced into hiding.

    "It was a witch hunt," says Lor Toret, a Bajoran who owned a restaurant on Qo'noS before the Khitomer Accords were dissolved in 2399. "I still have a lot of friends in the capital, and they're telling me that Konjah's family was hunted down like they were all Undine.

    The sad thing is that no one knows how long the Undine had been in Konjah's place or what happened to the original. Did they kill him, or is he stuck in some Undine prison?"

  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,683 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Most likely killed, that's what the undine did to the Vulcan ambassador who got replaced in the early fed mission (well technically some time before that mission as was already replaced when the mission started). So thete's little hope of finding that Klingon alive or Eric Cooper either.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Most likely killed, that's what the undine did to the Vulcan ambassador who got replaced in the early fed mission (well technically some time before that mission as was already replaced when the mission started). So thete's little hope of finding that Klingon alive or Eric Cooper either.
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Most likely killed, that's what the undine did to the Vulcan ambassador who got replaced in the early fed mission (well technically some time before that mission as was already replaced when the mission started). So thete's little hope of finding that Klingon alive or Eric Cooper either.

    You meet the real Eric Cooper at the beginning of the mission "A Gathering Darkness", he's either replaced during the same mission where you find him "hiding away" or in the mission "Fluid Dynamics" where you find his escape pod, however I still have a hard time believing Cooper was human due to how ugly he was.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,683 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Most likely killed, that's what the undine did to the Vulcan ambassador who got replaced in the early fed mission (well technically some time before that mission as was already replaced when the mission started). So thete's little hope of finding that Klingon alive or Eric Cooper either.
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Most likely killed, that's what the undine did to the Vulcan ambassador who got replaced in the early fed mission (well technically some time before that mission as was already replaced when the mission started). So thete's little hope of finding that Klingon alive or Eric Cooper either.

    You meet the real Eric Cooper at the beginning of the mission "A Gathering Darkness", he's either replaced during the same mission where you find him "hiding away" or in the mission "Fluid Dynamics" where you find his escape pod, however I still have a hard time believing Cooper was human due to how ugly he was.
    he's just a really old model though so it's just that model hasn't aged all that well, most likely time for him to have been changed was during "Fluid Dynamics" as there's a clear switch from "scared but somewhat collected scientist" to "scarycat who can't complain about of inferior and unworthy he is"

    Edit: also quoting me just once is enough, at least if you aren't quoting different things I've said. Oh and what I've meant by that quoted section is that it's highly unlikely we'd find the real Cooper alive in an Undine prison somewhere, it doesn't seem to be their MO.
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