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Ground Combat

So, my Klingon character, Colonel Marik, was created originally to be the most brutal melee combatant in the Empire, the subject of song and story. Armed with his batlh'etlh, he was supposed to carve a swath through enemies.

Of course, in the game, his success is rather less inspiring. I find he's incredibly squishy, and while he CAN do substantial damage, he's usually dead before he can do it. The combat system isn't helping things, as enemies just run backwards out of range while the attack animation is going on, rooting ME but not THEM. The result is a series of twitchy half attacks until the enemy actually stands still, or I can knock them down with Lunge.

I've tried building him different ways. I tried emphasizing durability above all, but the degree of durability is more or less insignificant. So, I tried building to take advantage of exploit damage, but it's inconsistent and require he be more or less defenseless. I tried building for critical hits, thinking I'd use traits that enhance critical hit chance and severity, but that also heal him on critical hits, theoretically helping his durability.

Nothing seems to work.

So, I wondered if anyone has any suggestions how I might turn my mighty Klingon marine into a MIGHTY Klingon marine? What traits do you suggest, keeping in mind my preference is to use the batlh'etlh?
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
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Comments

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,542 Arc User
    I second this request.
    Never geared any of my characters for melee combat but with the upcoming DSC klingon style it may be worth exploring.
    Any tips/tricks will be appreciated.

    one thing i do know is that bat'leths can do a lot of damage with the right combinations of keys but their response/animation is slow . On some characters i found swords (nausican) to be more responsive.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,011 Arc User
    edited January 22
    https://www.sto-league.com/ground-builds/

    Compared to space combat ground builds are cheap to make and powercreep is far less of an issue.

    Easy peasy Colonel.
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,814 Arc User
    Batlh'etlh's don't have the auto lunge of swords which can make them more difficult. You could try the auto-move-forward (R key) even in combination with shooter mode.

    This might be why the enemy is moving away as the mechanic to close on attack is missing.

    It's for this reason I keep mine for ceremonial purposes or when the team lead declares blades only on an all Klingon team.
    gad9vMA.jpg
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,373 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    Batlh'etlh's don't have the auto lunge of swords which can make them more difficult. You could try the auto-move-forward (R key) even in combination with shooter mode.

    This might be why the enemy is moving away as the mechanic to close on attack is missing.

    It's for this reason I keep mine for ceremonial purposes or when the team lead declares blades only on an all Klingon team.

    Yeah Bat'lets are, with Lirpa's, the worst of the melee weapons. I had hoped that they would have devoted some attention to it with the Year of Klingon updates.

    If there's one thing people think about when they hear 'Klingon', it's probably either 'honour' or 'bat'leth'. It's a pity that they're such clumsy weapons.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,373 Arc User
    Some things you could try are:

    - Rooting or slowing the enemy (there are many modules for this - for instance, chronometric diffusion (temporal kit module)
    - Kicking them down with Lunge and then continuing your melee attacks
    - Combine these: Use stuff like debilitating shockwave which knocks down enemies and slows them
    - Relocate enemies (paradox bomb or gravitational juncture for example)
    - Increase your own speed with things like motion accelerator, coordinated synergies or Maquis guile
    - Relocate your own character with stabilised folded-space transporter

    As for survival:
    - Get more heals (like bio-essence transfer or biotech siphon (which heals your health based on melee damage you deal))
    - Distract / confuse enemies (with traits like holo-decoys or some intel modules)


    There are lots of things that can work great. That being said, melee suffers from some serious disadvantages. I hope they'll try to improve it sometime.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,444 Arc User
    Do you use combo's? Because you must with melee. 1-1-2 and 2 is a critical hit. Buffed, it really hits hard. I like melee and do it a lot. You can practice in the Defera invasion zone. All single hands have lunge which make them superior to two-hands. The lunge neglects roots. BTW the dual hand mak'leths have a short lunge. They are a mission reward. There is also a single hand mak'leth as a mission reward. These are the superior melee weapons for a Klingon warrior. If your captain is a tac you also have lunge and sweeping strikes and if you are Ferasan or Caitan you get a racial lunge.
    Not all fights are suited for melee combat, but that is where your second weapon slot is useful. Anyway, you can have lots of fun with melee and do awesome damage. Tac is the first choice because you have the most options, but the science captain can come on par, while the engineer has interesting tricks like weapon malfunction, which set the terms of the fight to handcombat.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,810 Arc User
    lots of great info. i use the shield and gloves set. (cant recall name now) when i go melee, and really enjoy the face to face action it provides. my build is far from perfect, more close to imperfect, for some missions, but overall i say i enjoy hand to hand often. :)
    meh

  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    following
  • khazlolkhazlol Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited January 22
    Something i wanted to test for my klingon was the nanopulse mek'leths with the romulan navy kit and kentari armor and shield. at least that could be a "lorefriendly" alternative to bat'leths if it works.

    edit: with that said my klingon is science and i would run around tanking and (hopefully) get a lot of procs from the shield. i don't know how easy that would be without all the self healing science officers have xD
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 40,787 Arc User
    > @peterconnorfirst said:
    > https://www.sto-league.com/ground-builds/
    >
    > Compared to space combat ground builds are cheap to make and powercreep is far less of an issue.
    >
    > Easy peasy Colonel.

    Uhhh power creep on the ground is far FAR more of an issue. Its just so much cheaper to buy into the power creep than in space.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,814 Arc User
    It seems like the Klingon Recruitment Event is here to help:
    • Special Bat’leth that scales as you perform Melee Kills (Recruit and Account)
    • Ground Personal Trait that provides scaling bonuses for Melee Kills (Recruit and Account)
    gad9vMA.jpg
  • madmoparmadmopar Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    > @protoneous said:
    > It seems like the Klingon Recruitment Event is here to help:* Special Bat’leth that scales as you perform Melee Kills (Recruit and Account)
    > * Ground Personal Trait that provides scaling bonuses for Melee Kills (Recruit and Account)

    That's not going to help his issue of enemies backpeddling out of range then blasting him dead.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,814 Arc User
    madmopar wrote: »
    > @protoneous said:
    > It seems like the Klingon Recruitment Event is here to help:* Special Bat’leth that scales as you perform Melee Kills (Recruit and Account)
    > * Ground Personal Trait that provides scaling bonuses for Melee Kills (Recruit and Account)

    That's not going to help his issue of enemies backpeddling out of range then blasting him dead.
    Scroll up to the 4th post in this thread. It was the first thing mentioned about this blade. In-game like in-TV-show Bat'leth's require a fair bit of practice to use to good effect.

    The only real answer is either to practice with a Bat’leth like a good Klingon until proficient, switch to a different blade that has the close on attack mechanism, or maybe come to the dawning realization that bringing a knife to a gunfight might not always be the best idea.
    gad9vMA.jpg
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,819 Arc User
    I think the game could use a few tweaks to ground combat... for one, taking melee damage should root you for a couple of seconds, and initiating a melee attack should NOT root you. I don't care about the animation, I'd be content sliding across the ground to complete the attack.

    That said, what I'm trying to figure out now is what traits to use (and skills, as a secondary concern).
    https://www.sto-league.com/ground-builds/

    Compared to space combat ground builds are cheap to make and powercreep is far less of an issue.

    Easy peasy Colonel.

    I looked at those builds, they all use ultramegasupercrazy elite gear, which I simply can't get access to, either because I haven't the resources, or haven't access (eg. Fleet gear). That's why I'm more interested in optimizing my traits. Even with those, many I won't be able to get, but I'd still like to figure him out. I'll post a list of what he's using now, and the reasoning behind it.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,819 Arc User
    So, here's my trait arrangement at the moment (it's a work in progress, of course)...

    Acute Senses
    Brawler
    Covert
    Lucky
    Physical Strength
    Pistol Training
    Privateer's Luck
    Up Close & Personal
    Watch Your Back

    Destabilizing Phase Screen
    Disabling Strikes
    Lethality
    Rending Shots

    The idea here is to do good base melee damage with good exploit damage, but retain some decent defensive ability. Disabling Strikes is supposed to knock foes down on a critical hit, thereby immobilizing them, and both Lethality and Rending Shots increase the chances of a critical hit.

    I do have plenty of other options, but I'm not sure any of them work any better than this setup does.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,814 Arc User
    I think the game could use a few tweaks to ground combat... for one, taking melee damage should root you for a couple of seconds, and initiating a melee attack should NOT root you.

    uuvGrVr.jpg
    gad9vMA.jpg
  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited January 23
    Melee is the strongest option of all, you could solo elite settings without your crew with a non-maxed character.

    Your mandatory kit modules line:
    Universal Kit Module - Mudd's Time Device [Discovery rep]
    Tactical Kit Module - Ambush [exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Motivation [exchange]

    What you basically do is activate mudd's and then press ambush/motivation and they reset each other giving you incredible amount of survivability, damage, healing and death prevention

    Secondary, very very good but not required (to fill those 2 free spots left):
    Universal Kit Module - Phasic Shroud [from exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Motion Accelerator [from exchange]
    Universal Kit Module - Bio-Essence Transfer [from exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Trajectory Bending [from exchange]
    Universal Kit Module - Gravity Containment Unit [Discovery rep]

    Your battle gear should be:
    Dual Nanopulse Mek'leths, these are mission reward from an episode of the new klingon arc, its first & second attack clicks are good but what makes these particular is Mek'leths special is its third click, it is a rapid change-chase kind of ability that cannot be escaped by anything and it hits like a truck.

    Your personal shield and your second weapon should be the Nakuhl, found in the "temporal front" episode from the "Future proof" arc. The Shield have a proc that prevents you from dying and the 2set piece gives handy bonus damage.

    Your personal armor, traits and specializations are not important, so u have some choice here, whatever makes u happy. If you have what i described above, you should be able to solo elites ground zones without the need of your ship crew.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 2,926 Arc User
    vanhyo wrote: »
    Melee is the strongest option of all, you could solo elite settings without your crew with a non-maxed character.

    Your mandatory kit modules line:
    Universal Kit Module - Mudd's Time Device [Discovery rep]
    Tactical Kit Module - Ambush [exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Motivation [exchange]

    What you basically do is activate mudd's and then press ambush/motivation and they reset each other giving you incredible amount of survivability, damage, healing and death prevention

    Secondary, very very good but not required (to fill those 2 free spots left):
    Universal Kit Module - Phasic Shroud [from exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Motion Accelerator [from exchange]
    Universal Kit Module - Bio-Essence Transfer [from exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Trajectory Bending [from exchange]
    Universal Kit Module - Gravity Containment Unit [Discovery rep]

    Your battle gear should be:
    Dual Nanopulse Mek'leths, these are mission reward from an episode of the new klingon arc, its first & second attack clicks are good but what makes these particular is Mek'leths special is its third click, it is a rapid change-chase kind of ability that cannot be escaped by anything and it hits like a truck.

    Your personal shield and your second weapon should be the Nakuhl, found in the "temporal front" episode from the "Future proof" arc. The Shield have a proc that prevents you from dying and the 2set piece gives handy bonus damage.

    Your personal armor, traits and specializations are not important, so u have some choice here, whatever makes u happy. If you have what i described above, you should be able to solo elites ground zones without the need of your ship crew.
    Personally only thing melee I use on my main (FED alien gen so no racial bonuses) is the disco rep "weapon", you literally punch your way thru most enemies and the charge on that roots the mobs for a sec so they won't run and I love using melee on her there's something cathartic about running next to the mob that's been annoying you and beating the TRIBBLE out of it, also thanks to the knock down most mobs can't use their annoying abilities either as they're laying on their behind on the ground.
  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    @spiritborn its an interesting weapon, yes. Though building combos in single target is not exactly a mash-buttons-no-thinking pwnage
  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 522 Arc User
    Op the problem is well an old one. Prior to the ground combat redesign, by the way for the most part was a improvement, Melee combat had leg sweeping attack. This attack had a very fast cool down, and it knocked the target on the ground. This would allow a melee fighter to root a target to an extent in place. This however was changed after the ground combat update, and since that time melee combat is a good way to die. Prior to it, there was most enjoyable ways to play with melee combat. The other issue is back then the devs actually tried to balance the game damage, tank, and healing wise. For the last couple years all they have cared about is what makes them money. So they have no qualms about over powered weapons or bridge officer abilities. Especially those in lock boxes as it leads to money. The point being there is a heck of allot of one shot one kill items out there now on the ground. If you do the research. The last part of this statement was more of a pvp perspective. The first part was a pve/pvp perspective. I hope you succeed in getting the devs to listen op. They stopped listening to the long time klingon players a long time ago.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,810 Arc User
    vanhyo wrote: »
    Melee is the strongest option of all, you could solo elite settings without your crew with a non-maxed character.

    Your mandatory kit modules line:
    Universal Kit Module - Mudd's Time Device [Discovery rep]
    Tactical Kit Module - Ambush [exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Motivation [exchange]

    What you basically do is activate mudd's and then press ambush/motivation and they reset each other giving you incredible amount of survivability, damage, healing and death prevention

    Secondary, very very good but not required (to fill those 2 free spots left):
    Universal Kit Module - Phasic Shroud [from exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Motion Accelerator [from exchange]
    Universal Kit Module - Bio-Essence Transfer [from exchange]
    Tactical Kit Module - Trajectory Bending [from exchange]
    Universal Kit Module - Gravity Containment Unit [Discovery rep]

    Your battle gear should be:
    Dual Nanopulse Mek'leths, these are mission reward from an episode of the new klingon arc, its first & second attack clicks are good but what makes these particular is Mek'leths special is its third click, it is a rapid change-chase kind of ability that cannot be escaped by anything and it hits like a truck.

    Your personal shield and your second weapon should be the Nakuhl, found in the "temporal front" episode from the "Future proof" arc. The Shield have a proc that prevents you from dying and the 2set piece gives handy bonus damage.

    Your personal armor, traits and specializations are not important, so u have some choice here, whatever makes u happy. If you have what i described above, you should be able to solo elites ground zones without the need of your ship crew.

    i have the mek'leths...nice units for sure. i have the bio essense kit, but not the others. thx for details. offer any insight for eng toons with additional kits?
    meh

  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,810 Arc User
    id like to really get the flame sword or whatever it was the consoles got. not sure it would be a great gnd weap, but dang it looked cool.
    meh

  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited January 23
    @keepcalmchiveon
    For engineer there are not great many tricks, personally i use:

    Engineering Kit Module - Shield Recharge as mandatory combined with 3 diagnostic engineer doffs "dumen" for excellent shield/survival i also use the Phasic Shroud Module mentioned above.

    If you want the melee route you could add the said above mekleths, and 3 kind of of mines:
    - Chronition,
    - The gamma rep ones
    - Universal Kit Module - Crawler Swarm from the exchange


    Universal Kit Module - Plasma Feedback Cascade is also very good, i dont remember from which episode u get it.

    For a ranged toon, [Crystal Radiation Projector Mk XV [CrtD]x4 [Dm/CritD]] is an incredible freebie weapon

    if u have some lobi crystals Boolean Heavy Assault Cannon is incredible weapon.

    But whatever you decide to do, for an engineer u want XV oranges... or atleast XV purple

  • sci321sci321 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    id like to really get the flame sword or whatever it was the consoles got. not sure it would be a great gnd weap, but dang it looked cool.

    I remember a thread that was complaining about PC and console players getting different rewards for the same event, and someone linked a social media post from Cryptic stating that the next Featured TFO event will reward PC players with the sword and console players with the targ.
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,819 Arc User
    Boy... There's spam on the ground too, isn't there. Wandering on Nimbus, I see a guy running around with a whole flipping army with him...

    2 Hortas (green and blue)
    1 Tardigrade
    2 Nomads
    3 Targs
    1 Elachi Walker
    1 Dinosaur
    1 Runabout
    3 Tac Team
    1 Iconian mushroom thing
    THEN his away team...

    Getting a bit ridiculous.... but I'm a bit off topic. Just wanted to mention it.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,814 Arc User
    edited January 23
    ... any insight for eng toons with additional kits?

    I polled my main engineers, they had a lot of stuff...

    Primaries - Mines, (Cyro or Transphasic or Gamma), Mortar (Neutronic or other), Crystal Prism (event), Solar Gateway (not vs. Tholians), Anchor of Gre'thor (winter event store). Also Transphasic or Flash Freeze (winter event) Bomb or Flamethrower Turret, or Seeker Drone or Crawler Swarm or Explosive Drone.

    Also carry Photonic Barrier & Nanite Med Generators (rep) mainly for fleet Colony Invasion (med Gen can be good all around), other drones, Bio-Harmonic Emitter (Sompek), miscellaneous - Sabotage, Gravitational Juncture, Shield re-charge,

    Active Duty Ground Doffs: Neal Falconer for damage vs Borg, Security Officer for mines chance to hold , Armory Officer chance for additional Turret, Explosives Expert chance for additional mortar, Fabrication Engineer chance for additional support drone, Transporter Officer - chance to create a med or shield gen when the other is used.

    For giggles during missions - double doffed weapons malfunction. Damage control engineer - adds electrical damage, Diagnostic Engineer - chance to chain to additional enemies. Any engineers on your away team with WM get the same.

    All toons - Fleet or Delta Kit Frame with Na'kuhl Temporal Operative Personal Shield and gun (mission), Burnham's CQC Environmental Suit (reputation), large hypos, large kit overboosters (crafted), gambling device, choice of frosted boots, Paradox Corrector, or combat pet, primary weapons of choice - Assault Squad Phaser rifle (previously mission now Lobi) or Split Beam or Full Auto rifle, TR-116B or Replica Thompson Machine Gun versus Borg.

    Rep Traits - Lethality, Deadly Aim, Omega Weapon Proficiency, Magnified Armaments, Mental Acuity.

    Ground Traits - Orbital Devastation, Vicious, Shield Harmonic Resonance, Soldier, plus choice of 6 others on an Alien.

    Ground skill tree and recommendations per peterconnerfirst's link above work really well.
    gad9vMA.jpg
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,542 Arc User
    id like to really get the flame sword or whatever it was the consoles got. not sure it would be a great gnd weap, but dang it looked cool.

    @keepcalmchiveon
    The flame sword will be a reward for a future event on the PC, or so it was told during the last event with the targ combat pet.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,810 Arc User
    thanks all. for the details. :)
    meh

  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,810 Arc User
    i see the flamethrower plasma turrets on the exchange, but how can one get one other than that way? i have looked at wiki and not finding anything about how to obtain.
    is it you just upgrade the basic turret console to ultra?
    meh

  • vanhyovanhyo Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    Boy... There's spam on the ground too, isn't there. Wandering on Nimbus, I see a guy running around with a whole flipping army with him...

    Getting a bit ridiculous.... but I'm a bit off topic. Just wanted to mention it.

    haha yeah, its getting ridiculous, look at this guy, he made a "borg necromancer" for ground

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