Will see see a gamma holding added to s.t.o. anytime soon? With fleet holding in every sector except gamma alot of us are wondering if there are plans to update fleet holding.
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We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity"
I like the idea/concept of Fleet Holdings just like the Reputations but imo both are in need of some recalibrations of costs versus rewards values with some being good some being bad & all inbetween. I think maybe adding 1 per year or every other year with them alternating, for both Fleet Holdings & Reputations would be a decent pace but I'm sure that differs for each player's taste.
There really is little point in doing anything more with the "gamma quadrant" since the players are not actually part of the main Dominion, they are part of Odo's personal expedition force. The devs have displayed at least as much indifference/reluctance in anything Dominion beyond that single alpha quadrant based force when players have asked about it as they had for the Nova class.
Well the Dominion arc, JH mini faction etc were added before Andre took officially over, meaning they were the creations of the previous one. ViL was forgotten quite fast by Cryptic and Dominion captains waited till the temporal warship cross faction bundle to get their next ship afterwards.
Personally I liked entire ViL with one exception, adding the gamma quadrant as a giant battleground with bland objectives instead taking advantage of a new gamma with various planets to visit and activities/patrols
Personally I liked entire ViL with one exception, adding the gamma quadrant as a giant battleground with bland objectives instead taking advantage of a new gamma with various planets to visit and activities/patrols
I recall Cryptic once talking about how, way back when they were making Legacy of Romulus, they were trying to decide where they wanted to go after that. They were thinking about either the Delta, or Gamma, Quadrants, and ended up going with the Delta Quadrant, because the Gamma Quadrant really had little to do in it.
I have always assumed that they made the Gamma Quadrant a giant battlezone specifically because theres nothing to do there, and any patrols would just be "The Hur'q are attacking us!" anyways, because the Dominion doesn't allow, or tolerate, problems within its borders. So the only problem we would run into is Hur'q attacks.
There's like 20 known species in the Gamma Quadrant, and all of them are part of, or live under the thumb of, The Dominion. The singular major power in the quadrant is the Dominion, and the only really interesting extinct race is the Hur'q. None of the other races in the GQ have any sort of military, or defense forces, of their own because the Dominion takes care of all that. So there wouldn't really be any way for them to be anything of a challenge in a patrol.
And the only two interesting planets are the Ennis/Nol-Ennis planet, with the nano-machines that don't like people die, and the planet that phases in/out of reality. We went to the first one, and the second one won't be back in our reality for another like 20 years in STOs time.
Not to mention, both the Federation and Klingon Empire have been exploring the Gamma quadrant in the 30 years since the end of the Dominion War, and have already made quasi alliances with species like the Dosi, Wadi, Karemma, Paradans, Hunters, and Tosk(which is why these races are available as DOFFs/have DOFF chains) So like, all the political stuff with the minor races of the GQ was already covered before STO even begins.
The key to all of that is that the Dominion mostly kept order by ruthlessly suppressing the other civilizations, something they would have lost the ability to do because of the war losses followed by the Hurq all but destroying their empire. The war with the Alpha/Beta quadrant Alliance drawing off some of that pressure probably even revitalized the undergrounds that existed and encouraged them to loop in others.
Once the Dominion was weakened Gamma would have erupted with all the more aggressive of the suppressed civilizations, probably even using captured Dominion ships, secretly armed freighters, and any military ships their various undergrounds would have been building in secret. Hostile civilizations sniffing around the Dominion outskirts could also take advantage of the weakening of the Dominion.
There was tabletop game by FGU that had almost exactly that situation in one of their sector modules, Terran colonies settled via a stargate settled the region not knowing they were in the path of a very large conquering empire. When it rolled over them they kept up a cooperative face but built mechs and ships in secret to use when the time was right. It was an interesting module for Space Opera, and STO could do just as interesting a job on an unstabilized Gamma quadrant if they wanted to.
Instead of a dull and rather hokey battlezone Gamma could indeed have been prime patrol fodder with the players putting out all sorts of brushfire situations and even have a random encounter setup where they could find hidden bases or flotillas sneaking around Dominion territory. They could have even used two-ending scenarios for episodes and patrols where the player could choose to crush the rebels or take an armed diplomatic approach which would make both the red and blue faction players happy.
So there really is a lot that could be done there.
Of course for any of that to work they would have to expand the Dominion to include Vorta and other Gamma races as leveling characters and not just the gee-wiz endgame only Jem'Hadar, and I just can't see them putting in that kind of effort anymore without CBS setting a show there or something.
Well the Dominion arc, JH mini faction etc were added before Andre took officially over, meaning they were the creations of the previous one. ViL was forgotten quite fast by Cryptic and Dominion captains waited till the temporal warship cross faction bundle to get their next ship afterwards.
Personally I liked entire ViL with one exception, adding the gamma quadrant as a giant battleground with bland objectives instead taking advantage of a new gamma with various planets to visit and activities/patrols
To me at least, & it could've as easily just been coincidental timing, it seemed the whole ViL story-arc was cut too short. I wanted more. lol I thought that was some of the highest quality work done by Cryptic 'recently' with those missions, especially a couple of them, & overall good continuity. I'll admit though besides the actual story-missions I haven't delved into the Gamma Quad too much.
Well the Dominion arc, JH mini faction etc were added before Andre took officially over, meaning they were the creations of the previous one. ViL was forgotten quite fast by Cryptic and Dominion captains waited till the temporal warship cross faction bundle to get their next ship afterwards.
Personally I liked entire ViL with one exception, adding the gamma quadrant as a giant battleground with bland objectives instead taking advantage of a new gamma with various planets to visit and activities/patrols
To me at least, & it could've as easily just been coincidental timing, it seemed the whole ViL story-arc was cut too short. I wanted more. lol I thought that was some of the highest quality work done by Cryptic 'recently' with those missions, especially a couple of them, & overall good continuity. I'll admit though besides the actual story-missions I haven't delved into the Gamma Quad too much.
There really isn't anything in the Gamma quadrant map to delve into, it is not really a "quadrant" map like the other three though it is set up to look like one (and perhaps they were originally intending to make it a full sector but stopped for some reason). It is simply a battlezone like Gon'cra or the Badlands except that it has far more boring distance to cross between minigame areas. The episodes and one TFO are the only other parts ViL has.
The key to all of that is that the Dominion mostly kept order by ruthlessly suppressing the other civilizations, something they would have lost the ability to do because of the war losses followed by the Hurq all but destroying their empire. The war with the Alpha/Beta quadrant Alliance drawing off some of that pressure probably even revitalized the undergrounds that existed and encouraged them to loop in others.
Once the Dominion was weakened Gamma would have erupted with all the more aggressive of the suppressed civilizations, probably even using captured Dominion ships, secretly armed freighters, and any military ships their various undergrounds would have been building in secret. Hostile civilizations sniffing around the Dominion outskirts could also take advantage of the weakening of the Dominion.
There was tabletop game by FGU that had almost exactly that situation in one of their sector modules, Terran colonies settled via a stargate settled the region not knowing they were in the path of a very large conquering empire. When it rolled over them they kept up a cooperative face but built mechs and ships in secret to use when the time was right. It was an interesting module for Space Opera, and STO could do just as interesting a job on an unstabilized Gamma quadrant if they wanted to.
Instead of a dull and rather hokey battlezone Gamma could indeed have been prime patrol fodder with the players putting out all sorts of brushfire situations and even have a random encounter setup where they could find hidden bases or flotillas sneaking around Dominion territory. They could have even used two-ending scenarios for episodes and patrols where the player could choose to crush the rebels or take an armed diplomatic approach which would make both the red and blue faction players happy.
So there really is a lot that could be done there.
Of course for any of that to work they would have to expand the Dominion to include Vorta and other Gamma races as leveling characters and not just the gee-wiz endgame only Jem'Hadar, and I just can't see them putting in that kind of effort anymore without CBS setting a show there or something.
The Hur'q invasion not only ravaged the Dominion, but everyone else.
Yeah, the Dominion lost a lot of forces, but as we saw with the Karemma situation, they still had thousands of ships left. And still greatly outnumber the other species forces, which would have also been comparatively weakened by the Hur'q attacks.
Everyone is weaker, but its still the same relative strength in comparison to one another.
The Hur'q damaged all of them, true, but the Dominion was rigidly orderly and depended on that order and control to function, the chaos the Hur'q caused would favor the rebels even if they were all taken down by exactly the same margin, even after the war itself. It is not an overwhelming advantage, but it could very well kick off enough brushwars and other trouble to make it a very interesting expansion.
Besides if cryptic uses other means now to enable desirable unlocks things are much fairer handled amongst the players than they are via fleet holdings.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I have suggested this before in a different discussion, but I think it would be interesting to see a holding-like feature but open to everyone, regardless of fleet status. Obviously contribution costs would need to reflect average active player population, rather than average fleet size, and while that may seem astronomically high, the fact that anyone at any time would be able to contribute to any number of projects which would be active or inactive based on what progression stage the holding would be...
In my vision, this is not just a single facility. This is a collection of facilities forming the infrastructure of what would ultimately become the central star system for what will eventually become the Galactic Union, but now exists as The Alliance. So different elements of this "holding" would be spread across an entire solar system. One of the moons could serve as the site where the Alliance Fleet Operations headquarters will be built, and will serve as the fleet service aspect of the new seat of power for the Alliance. This facility would be built the way everything else is, bit its contribution costs would be based on the average number of players who are active fleet members. There would be a compound for Federation, Klingon, Romulan and Dominion. representing the four founding governments with a common area (with "secret" facilities to accomodate the temporal agents active in this period of time.
The capitol city would also have a Federation, Klingon, Romulan and Dominion quarer, each with a central plaza with a monument to that government... The monuments would be the very last elements of the entire system-wide holding to be constructed, signifying the completion of the work they all undertook together...
The Federation monument is the one Daniels referred to when he and archer were trapped in an alternate future. We'll get to build it.
A common area joining all quarters together would have the Alliance Council building surrounded by office structures and residential buildings. Any player who contributed to the alliance holding would have an apartment in the city.
This thing could be HUGE, and by design, take a long time to complete, even with everyone pitching in. But as time goes by, we would see the Alliance Capitol Star System grow around us, every step of progress the result of our contributions. All of us who participate would be able to say "I helped build this."
The mechanics are there. They just have never been open to all or applied in such a grand scale. But if the system can track the individual progress of so many different fleets, then surely it can track the progress of a single massive one...
Didn't Cryptic have a sort of "Community Objectives" or whatever title they gave it a few times?
I always thought those were neat. I know other games utilize that feature.
The community does whatever for a goal then everyone gets a benefit of some sort. Just retitle that too like "Universal Holding" or whatever.
I dont think we need more holdings as current holdings got a lot non utilized space where they could add npcs with extra functions, social toys and/or add things to fleet vendors
I would really like there to be something in the gamma quadrant.
As others have mentioned, there are lots of inhabitants to potentially interact with. It seems wrong that the whole area is just dead space without the battlezone.
The fact that Rene Auberjonois has passed away means there probably can't be another gamma story arc, which is a shame, because new things are generally introduced with a story arc.
The fleet holdings would be a great place to "host" any of their annual events, if they were of a mind to? By that I mean doing something set in and around one of those resources instead of the continual static events, but not a big deal.
I just feel as if their predilection of going to the trouble of making those, given the amount of development time involved and then just dropping them like a hot potato isn't exactly the best idea? Cryptic has a wide variety of in-game locales that they seldom to never revisit. Shame!
I would really like there to be something in the gamma quadrant.
As others have mentioned, there are lots of inhabitants to potentially interact with. It seems wrong that the whole area is just dead space without the battlezone.
The fact that Rene Auberjonois has passed away means there probably can't be another gamma story arc, which is a shame, because new things are generally introduced with a story arc.
A new Gamma arc involving the Dominion itself could be done without having Odo directly involved, in fact it makes more sense for one set in the Gamma quadrant itself to have a different contact since Odo is in Alpha with his Jem'Hadar fleet, not Gamma.
The biggest stumbling block would ironically be fact that the only faction that would be inappropriate for such an arc would be the Jem'Hadar since even the STO mini-stories, along with elements of the J'H starter scenario make it clear that the rest of the Dominion does not like the fact that Odo is putting J'H in officer positions and are just humoring him, and that only in his expeditionary force, not the bulk of Dominion forces and society.
Therefore an arc set in Gamma would require the other races, especially Vorta since DS9 established that they command all the Dominion ships and bases (outside of Odo's expeditionary force in STO of course), and the devs seem unwilling to even entertain the idea of Vorta player characters despite the clear evidence in DS9 that they made up both the intelligence and command corps of the Dominion.
fleet colony holding wasn't well received for a couple reasons.
during tribble testing the atrocious colony provision costs & minigames were pointed out.
in reaction to that feedback the amount of needed provisions was slightly reduced and needed dilithium contributions were generously increased to offset the provisions decrease.
then because of the feedback of 'one' vocal player the powers that be decided to remove needed duty officer contributions from the xp projects and in turn increased the needed dilithium again.
annoying maybe but something you can deal with. the really TRIBBLE and scummy thing happened when the holding finally made it to holodeck.
some undocumented bait and switch happened. the xp each project yielded was reduced from 1,200 to 1,000.
as a result of that 'minor' adjustment the total amount of provisions suddenly was larger again than the original testing iteration which supposedly was 'reduced'.
don't be all open and transparent about changing costs and then try to sneak in a ~25% increase in total costs at the last minute.
The biggest stumbling block would ironically be fact that the only faction that would be inappropriate for such an arc would be the Jem'Hadar since even the STO mini-stories, along with elements of the J'H starter scenario make it clear that the rest of the Dominion does not like the fact that Odo is putting J'H in officer positions and are just humoring him, and that only in his expeditionary force, not the bulk of Dominion forces and society.
Except the death of the Female Changeling, the exposure of her hand in the Hur'q Crisis, her willingness to kill other changelings to keep it secret, and the solid's defense of Empersa from the Hur'q, has caused Odo's more moderate faction to take control.
Its even mentioned at the end of "Home" that the Dominion is going to begin dismantling their "benevolent dictatorship" system, are curing the Jem'Hadar of their need for white, and that the Republic is working with the Karemma to possibly allow the Karemmans to leave the Dominion, without the Dominion's typical reprisals like what we saw with the Teplans in DS9.
The old Dominion died at the end of Victory is Life.
Even if that is more than just political vapor, something that ingrained takes a while to implement even on a small scale. The Dominion was a rigid cast system for centuries, and the gulf between Vorta and Jem'Hadar is as great as it is between human and critch in Carnival Row, or put another way the J'H were treated even worse in some ways than droids in Star Wars or replicants in Blade Runner.
For that matter, they are pretty much considered manufactured biotech by the Dominion just like the replicants, and not too different from the synths in PIC, just listen to Keevan and it is obvious that he considers them no more than expendable talking weapons, not people, and that is just the most obvious example.
Comments
We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity"
Captain Jean Luc Picard
We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity"
Captain Jean Luc Picard
Personally I liked entire ViL with one exception, adding the gamma quadrant as a giant battleground with bland objectives instead taking advantage of a new gamma with various planets to visit and activities/patrols
The key to all of that is that the Dominion mostly kept order by ruthlessly suppressing the other civilizations, something they would have lost the ability to do because of the war losses followed by the Hurq all but destroying their empire. The war with the Alpha/Beta quadrant Alliance drawing off some of that pressure probably even revitalized the undergrounds that existed and encouraged them to loop in others.
Once the Dominion was weakened Gamma would have erupted with all the more aggressive of the suppressed civilizations, probably even using captured Dominion ships, secretly armed freighters, and any military ships their various undergrounds would have been building in secret. Hostile civilizations sniffing around the Dominion outskirts could also take advantage of the weakening of the Dominion.
There was tabletop game by FGU that had almost exactly that situation in one of their sector modules, Terran colonies settled via a stargate settled the region not knowing they were in the path of a very large conquering empire. When it rolled over them they kept up a cooperative face but built mechs and ships in secret to use when the time was right. It was an interesting module for Space Opera, and STO could do just as interesting a job on an unstabilized Gamma quadrant if they wanted to.
Instead of a dull and rather hokey battlezone Gamma could indeed have been prime patrol fodder with the players putting out all sorts of brushfire situations and even have a random encounter setup where they could find hidden bases or flotillas sneaking around Dominion territory. They could have even used two-ending scenarios for episodes and patrols where the player could choose to crush the rebels or take an armed diplomatic approach which would make both the red and blue faction players happy.
So there really is a lot that could be done there.
Of course for any of that to work they would have to expand the Dominion to include Vorta and other Gamma races as leveling characters and not just the gee-wiz endgame only Jem'Hadar, and I just can't see them putting in that kind of effort anymore without CBS setting a show there or something.
To me at least, & it could've as easily just been coincidental timing, it seemed the whole ViL story-arc was cut too short. I wanted more. lol I thought that was some of the highest quality work done by Cryptic 'recently' with those missions, especially a couple of them, & overall good continuity. I'll admit though besides the actual story-missions I haven't delved into the Gamma Quad too much.
There really isn't anything in the Gamma quadrant map to delve into, it is not really a "quadrant" map like the other three though it is set up to look like one (and perhaps they were originally intending to make it a full sector but stopped for some reason). It is simply a battlezone like Gon'cra or the Badlands except that it has far more boring distance to cross between minigame areas. The episodes and one TFO are the only other parts ViL has.
The Hur'q damaged all of them, true, but the Dominion was rigidly orderly and depended on that order and control to function, the chaos the Hur'q caused would favor the rebels even if they were all taken down by exactly the same margin, even after the war itself. It is not an overwhelming advantage, but it could very well kick off enough brushwars and other trouble to make it a very interesting expansion.
We have enough holdings already.
Besides if cryptic uses other means now to enable desirable unlocks things are much fairer handled amongst the players than they are via fleet holdings.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Didn't Cryptic have a sort of "Community Objectives" or whatever title they gave it a few times?
I always thought those were neat. I know other games utilize that feature.
The community does whatever for a goal then everyone gets a benefit of some sort. Just retitle that too like "Universal Holding" or whatever.
As others have mentioned, there are lots of inhabitants to potentially interact with. It seems wrong that the whole area is just dead space without the battlezone.
The fact that Rene Auberjonois has passed away means there probably can't be another gamma story arc, which is a shame, because new things are generally introduced with a story arc.
I just feel as if their predilection of going to the trouble of making those, given the amount of development time involved and then just dropping them like a hot potato isn't exactly the best idea? Cryptic has a wide variety of in-game locales that they seldom to never revisit. Shame!
A new Gamma arc involving the Dominion itself could be done without having Odo directly involved, in fact it makes more sense for one set in the Gamma quadrant itself to have a different contact since Odo is in Alpha with his Jem'Hadar fleet, not Gamma.
The biggest stumbling block would ironically be fact that the only faction that would be inappropriate for such an arc would be the Jem'Hadar since even the STO mini-stories, along with elements of the J'H starter scenario make it clear that the rest of the Dominion does not like the fact that Odo is putting J'H in officer positions and are just humoring him, and that only in his expeditionary force, not the bulk of Dominion forces and society.
Therefore an arc set in Gamma would require the other races, especially Vorta since DS9 established that they command all the Dominion ships and bases (outside of Odo's expeditionary force in STO of course), and the devs seem unwilling to even entertain the idea of Vorta player characters despite the clear evidence in DS9 that they made up both the intelligence and command corps of the Dominion.
during tribble testing the atrocious colony provision costs & minigames were pointed out.
in reaction to that feedback the amount of needed provisions was slightly reduced and needed dilithium contributions were generously increased to offset the provisions decrease.
then because of the feedback of 'one' vocal player the powers that be decided to remove needed duty officer contributions from the xp projects and in turn increased the needed dilithium again.
annoying maybe but something you can deal with. the really TRIBBLE and scummy thing happened when the holding finally made it to holodeck.
some undocumented bait and switch happened. the xp each project yielded was reduced from 1,200 to 1,000.
as a result of that 'minor' adjustment the total amount of provisions suddenly was larger again than the original testing iteration which supposedly was 'reduced'.
don't be all open and transparent about changing costs and then try to sneak in a ~25% increase in total costs at the last minute.
Even if that is more than just political vapor, something that ingrained takes a while to implement even on a small scale. The Dominion was a rigid cast system for centuries, and the gulf between Vorta and Jem'Hadar is as great as it is between human and critch in Carnival Row, or put another way the J'H were treated even worse in some ways than droids in Star Wars or replicants in Blade Runner.
For that matter, they are pretty much considered manufactured biotech by the Dominion just like the replicants, and not too different from the synths in PIC, just listen to Keevan and it is obvious that he considers them no more than expendable talking weapons, not people, and that is just the most obvious example.