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Energy Credit sinks?
corinthalas
Member Posts: 2,331 Arc User
No, I don't mean buying stuff off the Exchange. I mean things that actually *remove* Energy Credits from the game rather that move it from one player to another. I know that some fleet projects can remove a modicum of EC, but they are nothing compared to the amount of EC that gets generated by players on a daily basis (and many of the biggest consumers are one-off fleet-holdings upgrade projects). EC cost for rep projects is basically nil. All the various consumables are pretty cheap. So what else is there? Why aren't there more ways to remove EC from the game?
"Who cares? ECs are worthless."
Yes, they are, but that's a symptom of the fact that there just aren't enough 'things' to do with them beyond the Exchange (which, as previously noted, just changes who holds them). There aren't enough things that are worth spending them on. I'm asking why aren't there? What if the Fleet Dilithium mine offered 3 daily DOFF missions to recrystalize dilithium that cost 1m, 4m, and 9m credits each and awarded 1k, 2k, and 3k dilithium ore respectively (with the missions unlocking at tier 1, 2, and 3 mines respectively as well). What if the Fleet Research station offered daily missions to spend energy credits in exchange for pre-refining dilithium up to 3 days in advance (Note: you don't get to refine more, as it would that same number of days before you can refine normally again). Or maybe a daily mission -- when applicable -- to refine a portion of daily refinements missed within the last week.
Heck, since GPL is really just EC in disguise (and Ferengis love the stuff), what if the Vlugta Asteroid Field offered a daily mission to exchange GPL for dilithium ore, or Fleet Dilithium Vouchers? What if you could pick up some T6 Ferengi ships from Ferenginar for, well, lots of GPL. Lots and lots and lots of GPL. No specialty stations or the like. Just a simple T6 ship for each main type (science, tactical, and engineering). Or instead of outright buying the ships, you could to 'rent' them (and the ships being offered could be more capable as a result). They could work like the mission-loaned ships already in game, except without any equipment (you supply that yourself, and anything you equip to those ships is saved to them for the next time you rent them). Except, when the rental period is up and you return to the galaxy map, you are automatically returned to Ferenginar shipyards. "Just 100k GPL for an hour with one of our best ships, guaranteed! Every ship comes with our 100% satisfaction money back *guarantee! (* - some limitations and restrictions apply; see full contract for details)"
"Who cares? ECs are worthless."
Yes, they are, but that's a symptom of the fact that there just aren't enough 'things' to do with them beyond the Exchange (which, as previously noted, just changes who holds them). There aren't enough things that are worth spending them on. I'm asking why aren't there? What if the Fleet Dilithium mine offered 3 daily DOFF missions to recrystalize dilithium that cost 1m, 4m, and 9m credits each and awarded 1k, 2k, and 3k dilithium ore respectively (with the missions unlocking at tier 1, 2, and 3 mines respectively as well). What if the Fleet Research station offered daily missions to spend energy credits in exchange for pre-refining dilithium up to 3 days in advance (Note: you don't get to refine more, as it would that same number of days before you can refine normally again). Or maybe a daily mission -- when applicable -- to refine a portion of daily refinements missed within the last week.
Heck, since GPL is really just EC in disguise (and Ferengis love the stuff), what if the Vlugta Asteroid Field offered a daily mission to exchange GPL for dilithium ore, or Fleet Dilithium Vouchers? What if you could pick up some T6 Ferengi ships from Ferenginar for, well, lots of GPL. Lots and lots and lots of GPL. No specialty stations or the like. Just a simple T6 ship for each main type (science, tactical, and engineering). Or instead of outright buying the ships, you could to 'rent' them (and the ships being offered could be more capable as a result). They could work like the mission-loaned ships already in game, except without any equipment (you supply that yourself, and anything you equip to those ships is saved to them for the next time you rent them). Except, when the rental period is up and you return to the galaxy map, you are automatically returned to Ferenginar shipyards. "Just 100k GPL for an hour with one of our best ships, guaranteed! Every ship comes with our 100% satisfaction money back *guarantee! (* - some limitations and restrictions apply; see full contract for details)"
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments
But yeah - "turn EC into Moar Ore!™" doesn't seem like it'd be very useful. The overlap between the people with the most EC and the people with the most unrefined ore is probably pretty high.
'Taxing' doesn't create a sink in games. People actively complain about it and avoid it even in games. It's actually something I find hilarious. They'll do private exchanges to avoid paying 'tax' in games, this idea just doesn't work. It won't even make a dent in the EC in game.
Using it to procure Dil 'could' be useful, but as you say, it'll only benefit the EC rich, not the majority casual player.
The problem with this idea is that people are doing work to earn it, using some of their limited time in game to generate EC. It isn't free from a money dispenser. And on the other side of things, people are creating ever more items to buy with EC.
Think of it in real terms. A can of beans costs $1 because there are $100 out there chasing every 100 cans of beans. Now some idiot at the central bank prints money like crazy, so there are now $200 chasing those same 100 cans of beans, thus you should see the price go up to $2 per can. But if there is more demand and more supply for beans because someone new opened a bean factory, doubled production at the existing one, or whatever you could then have $200 chasing 200 cans of beans. Well in that case they are still $1 per can, despite the increased money supply.
And the fact is, as you already point out, EC is largely worthless if there is nothing you want to buy with it. I have hundreds of millions sitting around and nothing to do with it. I could buy a ship or two, but why would I want to? Until I decide to do something with it, it literally has zero effect. It isn't sitting in the Bank of the Federation making loans to people to finance their new Mirandas, it isn't in the Ferengi stock exchange investing in various space bean businesses, it has literally the same effect on the economy as money buried in someone's back yard has on the stock market, which is to say zero.
So first, demonstrate there is a problem, otherwise you can't define an actual solution to it.
IF cryptic wanted to reduce EC value the only way is to add EC chewing things to the games.... EC in nothing of value out. So basically forced EC sinks. They could perhaps sell things like endeavor re rolls for 1 million ec a pop or something. They could increase the EC cost of Reputation gear.... taking an adding a 1 million or more EC sink to things like Reputation vanity shields would be a good place to look.
Having said that... Cryptic has zero issue with EC inflation. The truth is... it makes PURCHASING keys and other things of value more attractive. If you could buy 20 keys sell them and buy anything in the game why would you buy any more then 20 keys. Cryptic is just fine with the cost in EC of things coming out of lockboxes ect right now. They are also fine with people getting 6-7 million EC per key when they sell them. If they decreased the value of EC and all of a sudden over night keys where only worth 4 million.... it would kill their $ creation for at least a few months while the big ticket stuff caught up. The bottom line is after 10 years the EC wealth of the game is concentrated in a fairly small number of players. If Cryptic does something drastic and deflates the value of EC.... I would simply stop listing Space Traits, Lockbox consoles and for sure lockbox ships. I would close all my stores for a month or more until the value of EC returned. (and it would) Every other space rich player would do the same... why would I blow out my stock when I need for nothing.
Stop trying hard to make it. Producing things via crafting was never the best way to make EC... its worse now probably then it has ever been but it was never a great way outside of perhaps the first handful of months when upgrading was brand new.
The best advice you will get for creating a steady flow of EC.... pay attention to the actual game. Events are your bread and butter. Events drive the market up and down. Not just major events but minor ones as well. If a brand new ground event starts... people are going to be looking for ground gear, ground traits ect. If Cryptic is running a sale on something its going to be cheap... if its been awhile since there has been a sale they will be high. Learn what things cost at specific times during their price waves. If development packs are cheap cause there on sale and its a R&D weekend coming up.... buy as many as you can afford and open them during the weekend event. Then wait a week or so for the pricing on the things that pop out of them to go up.
Its not complicated buy low sell high... and that does mean holding things for a little bit. It also doesn't mean you have to wait for things to be at PEAK price. If your cost on something was 100k each... and they now sell for 120k each great, no need to wait weeks more for it to hit 140k. Sell take the 20k profit per and invest in the next wave.
Also stacks. Don't focus on things that sell for 20 million each... or 500 million ec ships. Figure out what things that sell for less then 100k sell for and what drives them up and down. Those are your biggest Profit makers. Its very easy any day of the week to grab a stack of 500+ of something... and break it up and sell it at a profit. Does it take time yes, but find things that move... as a crafter you should have a good idea of what those things are. What is it YOU had to buy when you crafted ? If you didn't buy stuff what did you run short of... cause other people run short and buy off the exchange. Basically bone up on the knowledge of what things are of actual value and what that value is. Then when you can snag them at 20% or more lower then their value do that.... and if you do it on a few things daily. You will make far more profit then you ever made trying to turn those things into something else no one wants.
I have billions in wealth... but I work the small markets all the time cause its actually fun. Sure selling a lockbox ship is nice. But making 100 million in a few hours just moving around some smaller things is more rewarding.
I said don't focus on ships... or anything large at all.
I often take a toon with 1 million EC and sit down for a few hours to turn it into 100. Perhaps that isn't something everyone can do... but this idea that you need a billion dollar bank roll to play the market is silly. You don't. The best profit making items sell for next to nothing.
Focus on what moves... when it moves, and things that move in volume. Ships are a terrible investment even if you have the funds. Wait days to turn a profit of 20-30 million what a waste of investment capital.
Yes missions, battle loot ya its free EC that's nice. But no one is getting space rich on that.
I basically just told you what to focus on, find things that move in high volume at low prices... where you can move something even for 1k EC profit each quickly.
It also isn't doing anything of value. The original lister probably had no idea what it would sell for or how fast and priced it low to ensure they get the sale, or they are the foolish type that deliberately lists things cheaply thinking it helps someone, or that it isn't actually worth more than the vendor price.
You could also scour the market for junk priced below the vendor rate that you can just buy and vendor it, which honestly does provide a service, by getting rid of stuff on the market that no one wants thus making it easier to find the more desirable things. I don't think you can get that rich doing this, though. Most people have enough sense to get vendor pricing rather than try to sell it on the exchange for less.
And it really only works for the people who like (and understand how) to play the Exchange.
The bigger issue is for the non-exchange-player types. How, in the incredibly inflated economy we have (because no EC sinks), do they earn/produce enough EC to actually buy the high-priced stuff on the Exchange? That's the advice that's needed, not "buy low sell high! play the market!"
What are the in-game ways to produce EC in the quantities needed to buy stuff from the Exchange, for a new player? Other than, of course, "buy keys for Zen, sell on the exchange."
(Personally, I've never been a market player - I've sold a handful of things I got from lockboxes over the years, and some holiday favors/ornaments/etc, and slowly worked my way up to ~600mil My "income" is mostly vendoring gear from mission drops & crafting Doff missions, plus Doff & Admiralty rewards. Yes, I specifically do all the "Build a Warp Core!" style Doff missions, so I can vendor the gear for EC. Really.)
Also I'm swimming in GPL and have nothing to spend it on. There's only so many pyramids I can build with it. Think I should switch to building the Great Wall now...
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I wasn't trying to offend you. You said you made a lot of money crafting, right ?
Ok to craft those things you needed what.... Z-particles, some form of components you had to build with whites.. other particles. ect.
What I am saying is stop trying to make the end product and deal in the component materials. Z-particles as an example fluctuate from anywhere from 1.5k each to 5k each right now. That is nothing compared to what they went for at the height of crafting. However assuming you buy 700 of them at 1,500 EC during peak evening time, or a weekend. And a day (or a few hours later) you sell them in stacks of 100 for 300k each (3k each). You just Doubled your 1 million EC investment. 1 million just became 2 million.
I know some people think this is taking advantage of people bla bla bla. Its nothing of the sort. Its understanding that some things will be cheaper when a lot of people are selling them... and they will go up later. To sell them you still have to be the cheapest or at least the best ratio of Qty vs Cost. There is nothing to feel bad about in keeping the market flowing during less busy game play times.
You can use the same thing on many items not just particles for crafting. I assumed you would have figured out what I was talking about in the initial post. As if you did a lot of crafting you have probably bought particles or components.
Another concrete idea... White doffs. They sell for fleet projects all day long. They are also subject to market fluctuations based on the number of people playing. The more people playing the faster they sell and often for higher EC as the supply never keeps up with demand. You can make millions if you are willing to break Purple Blue and green doffs down into whites. There is a vendor at the Fed and KDF academies who will break each color down into 3 of the next step down. So if you can score say some good deals at 100k or so on Blue doffs.... you can break that down into 3 greens, and then those down into 9 whites. Even if you only sell the whites for an average of 20k each that is easily 180k or again almost double your investment. Also if you break down blues you may get a handful of greens that are worth decent amounts people still buy green techs and green refuges. If you can get a good deal on purples you can also land some decent blues. Even if you don't breaking down to white is decent profit. The key with doffs is price them to move.... ideally if you do this on 2-3 toons by the time you fill 40 sales slots on the third toon... your first toon is sold out and you can repeat. If you are willing to do this (it is boring) you can easily gross 1 million per toon or 500k in profit every 20 min or so on a busy day. It is tedious but if you want a sure thing there it is.
Bottom line all I have been saying is... pay attention to what people use. The easiest way to do that is actually play the game and notice what you yourself run out of. Then find ways to generate that stuff. (or buy it cheap)
Then hunt for deals. Its not rocket science. Yes in general the best deals on product are on a weekend. However I am talking about starting with very little capital. Sure to maximize that you want to spend the lest you can and buy in an evening or weekend. If you can't you can still turn plenty of profit... perhaps not double or more, but turning a 50% profit is still possible. Doffs sell at all times of the day... just faster at peek. You can easily load 40 sales slots on 3-5 toons and just log back in tomorrow. They will all be sold. You can list things and they will stay there during peak time. I don't play peak times often anymore either. I mostly just post on my 1-5 exchange toons depending how I feel that day and forget about it till the next day or day after if I skip a day. All you need to do is figure out what the most you can sell something for is. In the case of white doffs.... get blues or purples as cheap as you can or look for deals on doff packs. You can find those any time of day any day. Break them down to whites and list them at the best possible price and wait. Its not big money. But if you think you need a 20 million or 50 million bank roll. A week of farming white doffs will get you that even if you just post 120 doffs a day and wait for them to sell.
You can do the same with particles. Any time of day you can find stacks of 1000 for a much lower price then they sell at in stacks of 50 or 100. Buy a stack at the end of your day that looks best.... and break them and post them in stacks of 100. By the next day they will all be sold. Sure you may only make a 40-50% profit doing that. Still if you buy 2 million worth and it turns into 3 million the next morning good enough. Do it often enough on a few items and after a few weeks you have your fat boy bank roll for what its worth.