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DHC on Flight Deck Carriers is intended (twitter)

mamif3mamif3 Member Posts: 149 Arc User

(See Kael Reply)

This means that the Flight-Deck Assault Carriers are now just cheaper better Universe Dreadnoughts.
5/3 and the turn rate to actually support DHC.

The Universe class is now just a 1.2billion EC Meem with a bad starship trait.

Comments

  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,104 Arc User
    I have not flown the Uverse, but I cannot imagine that thing turns well enough to make DHCs workable
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    Yeah, I know that the DPS would increase on my Discoprise if I equipped my cannons, but I am going to stick with the beams for the aesthetics.

    Still, it's nice that they added that option, more variety is always a good thing.

    I'm really glad now that I didn't buy the T'Laru a while back.. the 'Full Carriers' are garbage now by comparison. :lol:
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,764 Arc User
    So is this only for the Discovery Enterprise and D7? Or is this also intended for the T6 Orion Fleet Blackguard (Flight Deck Assault Cruiser) because I can't load standard DC's on my Blackguard.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,845 Arc User
    the blackguard should've had the ability to equip cannons to begin with...it has cannons plastered ALL OVER THE DAMN MODEL!​​
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,764 Arc User
    the blackguard should've had the ability to equip cannons to begin with...it has cannons plastered ALL OVER THE DAMN MODEL!​​
    Yeah, it's hilarious lol. I've been stuck using single cannons for a long time.
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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I have not flown the Uverse, but I cannot imagine that thing turns well enough to make DHCs workable
    The Valkis, the Durgath and the Universe have a turn rate of 5. For comparison, the Yamato Dreadnought Cruiser (T6) has a turn rate of 6 and the Vengeance Kelvin Timeline Intel Dreadnought Cruiser has a turn of 7.

    The issue with the Temporal Heavy Dreadnoughts is not so much their turn rate, but their inertia. You "slide" all over the place once you boost their turn rate. The Polaric Modulator (from the Iconian mission "Delta Flight") and the Counter-command Engines give small improvements to inertia, but it's not really enough. Even DBBs are hard to keep on target as you over-run your opponents and slide 100's of meters past them.
  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    Yeah, I know that the DPS would increase on my Discoprise if I equipped my cannons, but I am going to stick with the beams for the aesthetics.

    Still, it's nice that they added that option, more variety is always a good thing.

    I'm really glad now that I didn't buy the T'Laru a while back.. the 'Full Carriers' are garbage now by comparison. :lol:

    While I agree that full carriers are in a bad place now versus the new flight deck carrier, I have to say I dont regret getting the T'Laru a year ago. Its a fun ship wich can equip one of the most awesome and fun pets, the romulan drones frigates. Recently they got an update so more of the latest enemies are included in their data base to mimic. Its so fun to go to the Gron'cha system and watch Tzenchethi frigates fighting each other :D But mines using beams and bfaw instaid of cannon :) Or in the Iconian tfos, Baltim raiders fighting other Baltim raiders lol
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    mosul33 wrote: »
    Yeah, I know that the DPS would increase on my Discoprise if I equipped my cannons, but I am going to stick with the beams for the aesthetics.

    Still, it's nice that they added that option, more variety is always a good thing.

    I'm really glad now that I didn't buy the T'Laru a while back.. the 'Full Carriers' are garbage now by comparison. :lol:

    While I agree that full carriers are in a bad place now versus the new flight deck carrier, I have to say I dont regret getting the T'Laru a year ago. Its a fun ship wich can equip one of the most awesome and fun pets, the romulan drones frigates. Recently they got an update so more of the latest enemies are included in their data base to mimic. Its so fun to go to the Gron'cha system and watch Tzenchethi frigates fighting each other :D But mines using beams and bfaw instaid of cannon :) Or in the Iconian tfos, Baltim raiders fighting other Baltim raiders lol

    Romulan Drones are definitely great.

    Biggest issue is that the Scimitar gets one wing of them and is a hundred times better in every other way. The T'Laru is a great ship, but considering it's a lockbox ship that's been left behind, they really should give it a sizable buff.
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  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    Wow, is it just me or are they just going to keep pouring on the op to the discoprise? Has so much going on its crazy.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Wow, is it just me or are they just going to keep pouring on the op to the discoprise? Has so much going on its crazy.

    Elaborate - it's really no more or less OP than any other ship and though I hate to state the obvious, the 'abilities' of the ship are no more or less 'OP' than the player behind it. I mean, I've managed 85k DPS at best in mine - thats respectable (as I understand it) but I wouldn't say it was OP.

    And if you're refererring to the Advanced Beam Arrays - well, firstly - they were nerfed!
    Secondly, the D7 has the Avanced Beam Arrays too (in Disruptor flavour) - I made a loadout on my D7, swapping the beams with Spiral Wave Disruptor dual cannons (+ the Terran Reputation cannon) and found am doing marginially better DPS with the cannons.

    If you want to argue that any single ship is OP you're looking in the wrong place; the Vaadwaur Juggernaught is, in my opinion, the closest qualifiying ship for being described as OP. Whilst it might only be my experience of them, generally if I see a Juggernaught on the team in ISA its almost a foregone conculsion that it'll be a very short run.


  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I got the D7 and in all honesty it's a beam monster. People should try different things. I'm pretty sure the Discoprise isn't much different from the D7. Both have just enough maneuverability to hardpoint Dual beam banks (given the core of the Boff layout is about ensign abilities anyway). You should be able to pull-off magic with them.

    Do Dual Cannons matter? -- Personal preference in this regard, if you ask me. I did a test with singles on the last two fore hardpoints (5/3). At least on the D7 that's a canon per wing. I ended up putting DBB's instead. A little more snipey, but overall better performance. It's not like you don't have plenty of covering fire to bore tunnels through hulls.

    The only thing I don't like about it (spec-wise) is that frighin' inertia rating, it's easily 8.5pts too much imo.. don't burst full impulse unless you wanna end up in the next sector, lol!
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I got the D7 and in all honesty it's a beam monster. People should try different things. I'm pretty sure the Discoprise isn't much different from the D7. Both have just enough maneuverability to hardpoint Dual beam banks (given the core of the Boff layout is about ensign abilities anyway). You should be able to pull-off magic with them.

    Do Dual Cannons matter? -- Personal preference in this regard, if you ask me. I did a test with singles on the last two fore hardpoints (5/3). At least on the D7 that's a canon per wing. I ended up putting DBB's instead. A little more snipey, but overall better performance. It's not like you don't have plenty of covering fire to bore tunnels through hulls.

    The only thing I don't like about it (spec-wise) is that frighin' inertia rating, it's easily 8.5pts too much imo.. don't burst full impulse unless you wanna end up in the next sector, lol!

    Agree that the Discoprise is a very capable ship, but as said in previous post I still don't think it's OP.

    I mean, the Advanced Beam Arrays are better than the standard ones (except perhaps the Terran Reputation one). However, I don't see the benefit of equipping Dual Beam Banks on mine - as well as she turns, I still feel she's better off with an Advanced Beam array for better arc coverage - and lets keep in mind that they gain benefit based on how many you use.
    I only dropped one beam array, in favour of the Dark Matter Torpedo which I equipped, alongside the Lorca console (in the ship's universal console slot) to gain the two piece set bonus (+1% Critical Severity buff for 20s. Stacks up to 25.)

    And again, referring to my D7, I found my DPS very slightly better with dual Spiral-wave Disruptor cannons over the beams. 82k with the beams, 85k with the cannons.
    And yes - Dual Cannons DO matter since they're still superior to beams in general and the Advanced Beam Arrays are not widely available.


  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Putting Dual Beam Banks on the Discoprise is pretty much the one thing you can do to really handicap the ship.

    If you wanted to do the most powerful possible load out, you would do the standard Phaser Dual Heavy Cannon build using the Terran Taskforce DHC, and a mix of either the Prolonged Engagement, Quad Cannons and Crafted or Sensor Linked Cannons. In this configuration, the Discoprise is potentially the best DPS'er in the game due to the fact that it can match ships like the Gagarin and the Jem'Hadar Vanguard Warship with the 5/3 layout and Miracle Worker powers. The Discoprise pulls ahead because of the 2 hangar bays, the only real competition would be maybe the Juggernaut.

    Dual Beams would pale in comparison because they're far weaker then DHC but come with all the same Drawbacks. DBB are probably about the worst choice you can make with the game in it's current state. There is just no real reason to use them unless you just really want to (which is fine.)

    While the DHC layout is the most powerful, hands down.. I still prefer to use the Advanced Phasers on my Discoprise, even post nerf. It will never match the output of the DHC configuration, but mixing the Advanced Phasers with the Terran Beam and the Trilithium 2pc will easily outperform DBB/Omni's. The Advanced Beams are still very good beams and they get better the more CrtH you can stack. Plus the visuals thematically fit the ship which is a nice boost. The ship comes with the ability to use these beams, it's unique to this ship and it's a very good option, so it just seems a waste to me not to use it.

    I have other ships that out perform my Discoprise with Advanced Phasers, but the Discoprise is just more fun and it looks great. It won't break DPS records with beams, but it's still a very powerful ship. If I just wanted to push DPS as much as possible, I would load it up with cannons. While that would be effective.. it would, in my opinion, take away some of the ships unique identity.

    Individual results and preferences will vary of course.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    Putting Dual Beam Banks on the Discoprise is pretty much the one thing you can do to really handicap the ship.

    If you wanted to do the most powerful possible load out, you would do the standard Phaser Dual Heavy Cannon build using the Terran Taskforce DHC, and a mix of either the Prolonged Engagement, Quad Cannons and Crafted or Sensor Linked Cannons. In this configuration, the Discoprise is potentially the best DPS'er in the game due to the fact that it can match ships like the Gagarin and the Jem'Hadar Vanguard Warship with the 5/3 layout and Miracle Worker powers. The Discoprise pulls ahead because of the 2 hangar bays, the only real competition would be maybe the Juggernaut.

    Dual Beams would pale in comparison because they're far weaker then DHC but come with all the same Drawbacks. DBB are probably about the worst choice you can make with the game in it's current state. There is just no real reason to use them unless you just really want to (which is fine.)

    While the DHC layout is the most powerful, hands down.. I still prefer to use the Advanced Phasers on my Discoprise, even post nerf. It will never match the output of the DHC configuration, but mixing the Advanced Phasers with the Terran Beam and the Trilithium 2pc will easily outperform DBB/Omni's. The Advanced Beams are still very good beams and they get better the more CrtH you can stack. Plus the visuals thematically fit the ship which is a nice boost. The ship comes with the ability to use these beams, it's unique to this ship and it's a very good option, so it just seems a waste to me not to use it.

    I have other ships that out perform my Discoprise with Advanced Phasers, but the Discoprise is just more fun and it looks great. It won't break DPS records with beams, but it's still a very powerful ship. If I just wanted to push DPS as much as possible, I would load it up with cannons. While that would be effective.. it would, in my opinion, take away some of the ships unique identity.

    Individual results and preferences will vary of course.

    Yeah - to be honest, whilst I can tolerate using cannons on my D7, I wouldn't want to ruin the asthetic on my Discoprise, beyond the Dark Matter torpedo (which isn't really very noticable).
    That ship is an absolute beauty.


  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I got the D7 and in all honesty it's a beam monster. People should try different things. I'm pretty sure the Discoprise isn't much different from the D7. Both have just enough maneuverability to hardpoint Dual beam banks (given the core of the Boff layout is about ensign abilities anyway). You should be able to pull-off magic with them.

    Do Dual Cannons matter? -- Personal preference in this regard, if you ask me. I did a test with singles on the last two fore hardpoints (5/3). At least on the D7 that's a canon per wing. I ended up putting DBB's instead. A little more snipey, but overall better performance. It's not like you don't have plenty of covering fire to bore tunnels through hulls.

    The only thing I don't like about it (spec-wise) is that frighin' inertia rating, it's easily 8.5pts too much imo.. don't burst full impulse unless you wanna end up in the next sector, lol!

    Agree that the Discoprise is a very capable ship, but as said in previous post I still don't think it's OP.

    I mean, the Advanced Beam Arrays are better than the standard ones (except perhaps the Terran Reputation one). However, I don't see the benefit of equipping Dual Beam Banks on mine - as well as she turns, I still feel she's better off with an Advanced Beam array for better arc coverage - and lets keep in mind that they gain benefit based on how many you use.
    I only dropped one beam array, in favour of the Dark Matter Torpedo which I equipped, alongside the Lorca console (in the ship's universal console slot) to gain the two piece set bonus (+1% Critical Severity buff for 20s. Stacks up to 25.)

    And again, referring to my D7, I found my DPS very slightly better with dual Spiral-wave Disruptor cannons over the beams. 82k with the beams, 85k with the cannons.
    And yes - Dual Cannons DO matter since they're still superior to beams in general and the Advanced Beam Arrays are not widely available.
    Like anything, in any game: People scream "OP!" the moment someones having a good day. It's systemic of modern tear down culture in general. You can't buy, grind or fake "skill" you can only persevere until you find yours. -- at least, that's what I've discovered in 30+ yrs of gaming..

    Hypernole aside, I tend to only appraise by specs when I see no obvious difference in how things perform to the way I play. Which I then I go by intuition. Cannons aren't all things to all people (needs to be said).

    When ensign abilities take the spotlight, I'd normally tac BO2/FAW3 (for beams builds). Due to MAS2 and OE1, I can tac FAW2/BO3; which I suspect is the point (BO3). I designed the ensign chain to be a suite of emitters and counters, which lets a normally glassy build tank just a little.

    Mixed beams works better when you don't change the base damage type. For example: all disruptors, but different types of beams with different effects (Withering for example). -- My Klingon (Liberated Borg) is an Engineer, Pilot/Strategist which gives the D7 an edge where it would normally lack. So in my case, I slotted Rommie gear and expressed control/epg. It's just used in a different way, then say, 'science'. -- Would it all do better with a more Tac expression? Sure, probably.. but this ship overall, seems to do better by mitigating incoming burst damage and stripping down groups, so your pets have an opening to exploit. Which, they do terribly well. All you then do is snipe. It's brutal, but effective.

    You mentioned Spiral wave disruptors? Sure, makes sense. -- You're targetting sub-systems, but plasma and splash damage are other ways to do that as well, all equally effective when engineering is expressed. Engineering is a combination os science and application, I feel like they got that right in this games system.

    That could be why people feel these ships are OP. -- though, I contend it's more about the ingenuity of the user, than the tools provided.
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I got the D7 and in all honesty it's a beam monster. People should try different things. I'm pretty sure the Discoprise isn't much different from the D7. Both have just enough maneuverability to hardpoint Dual beam banks (given the core of the Boff layout is about ensign abilities anyway). You should be able to pull-off magic with them.

    Do Dual Cannons matter? -- Personal preference in this regard, if you ask me. I did a test with singles on the last two fore hardpoints (5/3). At least on the D7 that's a canon per wing. I ended up putting DBB's instead. A little more snipey, but overall better performance. It's not like you don't have plenty of covering fire to bore tunnels through hulls.

    The only thing I don't like about it (spec-wise) is that frighin' inertia rating, it's easily 8.5pts too much imo.. don't burst full impulse unless you wanna end up in the next sector, lol!

    Agree that the Discoprise is a very capable ship, but as said in previous post I still don't think it's OP.

    I mean, the Advanced Beam Arrays are better than the standard ones (except perhaps the Terran Reputation one). However, I don't see the benefit of equipping Dual Beam Banks on mine - as well as she turns, I still feel she's better off with an Advanced Beam array for better arc coverage - and lets keep in mind that they gain benefit based on how many you use.
    I only dropped one beam array, in favour of the Dark Matter Torpedo which I equipped, alongside the Lorca console (in the ship's universal console slot) to gain the two piece set bonus (+1% Critical Severity buff for 20s. Stacks up to 25.)

    And again, referring to my D7, I found my DPS very slightly better with dual Spiral-wave Disruptor cannons over the beams. 82k with the beams, 85k with the cannons.
    And yes - Dual Cannons DO matter since they're still superior to beams in general and the Advanced Beam Arrays are not widely available.
    Like anything, in any game: People scream "OP!" the moment someones having a good day. It's systemic of modern tear down culture in general. You can't buy, grind or fake "skill" you can only persevere until you find yours. -- at least, that's what I've discovered in 30+ yrs of gaming..

    Hypernole aside, I tend to only appraise by specs when I see no obvious difference in how things perform to the way I play. Which I then I go by intuition. Cannons aren't all things to all people (needs to be said).

    When ensign abilities take the spotlight, I'd normally tac BO2/FAW3 (for beams builds). Due to MAS2 and OE1, I can tac FAW2/BO3; which I suspect is the point (BO3). I designed the ensign chain to be a suite of emitters and counters, which lets a normally glassy build tank just a little.

    Mixed beams works better when you don't change the base damage type. For example: all disruptors, but different types of beams with different effects (Withering for example). -- My Klingon (Liberated Borg) is an Engineer, Pilot/Strategist which gives the D7 an edge where it would normally lack. So in my case, I slotted Rommie gear and expressed control/epg. It's just used in a different way, then say, 'science'. -- Would it all do better with a more Tac expression? Sure, probably.. but this ship overall, seems to do better by mitigating incoming burst damage and stripping down groups, so your pets have an opening to exploit. Which, they do terribly well. All you then do is snipe. It's brutal, but effective.

    You mentioned Spiral wave disruptors? Sure, makes sense. -- You're targetting sub-systems, but plasma and splash damage are other ways to do that as well, all equally effective when engineering is expressed. Engineering is a combination os science and application, I feel like they got that right in this games system.

    That could be why people feel these ships are OP. -- though, I contend it's more about the ingenuity of the user, than the tools provided.

    Spiral Wave Disruptors are favoured as they come with an extra two damage modifiers as part of their proc. In otherwords they get one mod more then most weapons, with the 'Spiral' mod being two mods + a proc; and they can run a CrtX in one mod slot.


  • paladinrja#5247 paladinrja Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Spiral Wave Disruptors are favoured as they come with an extra two damage modifiers as part of their proc. In otherwords they get one mod more then most weapons, with the 'Spiral' mod being two mods + a proc; and they can run a CrtX in one mod slot.

    Yep, hybrid weapons are great, it's a no-brainer.
    XBOX One GT: Paladinrja
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    I will elaborate, even though it has been mentioned in other threads that many consider it one of the more powerful ships.
    It's a 5/3, has miracle worker abilities with extra console slot, good seating, two hangars, good modifiers and a unique and apparently powerful pet AND can do DHC...that covers a lot of bases.
    For the other comment, no one is running around screaming OP here, I'm pointing out they seem to be throwing everything on this ship...heck it appears this ship led to some other ships getting power bumps with a second hangar! It certainly started that trend.

    As for "it's the player!" Well that's obvious, a bad build or bad player makes a huge difference but taking ships on their own this ship (and the d7...assumed that was a given considering they are mostly the same ship) does stand apart as having a great many advantages. If you were to look at it objectively instead of just jumping up to defend it like someone is attacked it and all who use it, I'm sure you'd agree that it is a very very powerful base to build on.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I will elaborate, even though it has been mentioned in other threads that many consider it one of the more powerful ships.
    It's a 5/3, has miracle worker abilities with extra console slot, good seating, two hangars, good modifiers and a unique and apparently powerful pet AND can do DHC...that covers a lot of bases.
    For the other comment, no one is running around screaming OP here, I'm pointing out they seem to be throwing everything on this ship...heck it appears this ship led to some other ships getting power bumps with a second hangar! It certainly started that trend.

    As for "it's the player!" Well that's obvious, a bad build or bad player makes a huge difference but taking ships on their own this ship (and the d7...assumed that was a given considering they are mostly the same ship) does stand apart as having a great many advantages. If you were to look at it objectively instead of just jumping up to defend it like someone is attacked it and all who use it, I'm sure you'd agree that it is a very very powerful base to build on.

    Perhaps - but still not as powerful as the Vaaudwar Juggernaught. I have yet to see a DSC Constitution or D7 appear in ISA and one-shot everything the way a Juggernaught can in the right hands.


  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    STO forums definition of "OP" generally seems to be "anything the poster doesn't have that's at all useful for anything."
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,377 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    STO forums definition of "OP" generally seems to be "anything the poster doesn't have that's at all useful for anything."

    And sadly those are the posts that seem to catch attention.


  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    What is it with these forums? I pointed out that this ship seems to be getting loaded with everything (and even pointed out all the points I was referring to after that) and suddenly in swings people with the rather silly comments about OP being whatever you don't have.
    Come on, you guys are better than this, can you not have a discussion with blindly coming out with these ridiculous comments anymore? I have an opinion that isn't yours and should therefore be mocked?
    At least the other poster almost got to the level of a discussion.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,164 Arc User
    the blackguard should've had the ability to equip cannons to begin with...it has cannons plastered ALL OVER THE DAMN MODEL!​​

    Especially since it's KDF, where DHC access is a tradition.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,062 Arc User
    the blackguard should've had the ability to equip cannons to begin with...it has cannons plastered ALL OVER THE DAMN MODEL!​​

    Especially since it's KDF, where DHC access is a tradition.

    I don't own the Black Guard, but honestly.. I just assumed it was allowed to run Dual Cannons because it's KDF. Like you, I thought that was one of the main draws of all KDF ships.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    You guys have heard about the Beam Overload changes, right? And what if it can run dual cannons?

    Last time I checked, the Cardassian Ghemor wasn't able to use dual cannons - But that would be amazing, tbh.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,476 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    mosul33 wrote: »
    Yeah, I know that the DPS would increase on my Discoprise if I equipped my cannons, but I am going to stick with the beams for the aesthetics.

    Still, it's nice that they added that option, more variety is always a good thing.

    I'm really glad now that I didn't buy the T'Laru a while back.. the 'Full Carriers' are garbage now by comparison. :lol:

    While I agree that full carriers are in a bad place now versus the new flight deck carrier, I have to say I dont regret getting the T'Laru a year ago. Its a fun ship wich can equip one of the most awesome and fun pets, the romulan drones frigates. Recently they got an update so more of the latest enemies are included in their data base to mimic. Its so fun to go to the Gron'cha system and watch Tzenchethi frigates fighting each other :D But mines using beams and bfaw instaid of cannon :) Or in the Iconian tfos, Baltim raiders fighting other Baltim raiders lol

    Hoping eventually they will update carriers and a few other ships in ways. (Still think the Annorax and the Paradox should get some kind of Temporal seating)

    I've given a idea myself on how to improve them, either giving them a 3rd hangar or not. Just a matter if they even care, probably don't since pure carriers haven't been part of the DPS meta (cash grab) in forever.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
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