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My dea for Reworking the Gear Upgrade and Loot System

turkeysandvichsturkeysandvichs Member Posts: 17 Arc User
I'm not quite sure where to put this, so I'll just place it here for now and see what happens. This post ended being waaaaay longer than I had anticipated. Brace yourself for a wall of text.

This is the first in what I hope to be a long line of short articles where I propose my ideas for revitalising Star Trek Online.

As it stands, the Item Upgrade and Loot system is very empty and devoid of any meaningful mechanics and is quite frustrating when RNG gets involved. Here I will propose a method by which the upgrade system will be linked to the R&D crafting system and the loot system, and I will remove the obscene dilithium requirements and RNG from rarity upgrades, as well as a few other things, as well as overhaul loots.

Upgrading Mark
For starters, upgrading a weapon's mark will be the easiest, so long as you have the crafting materials As you reach higher marks, you will need to craft more and have a small amount of dilithium (based on the R&D components needed). This process will also be conducted within the R&D window under a new R&D project in each school - 'Upgrade insert gear item here'.

A question to the reader: would you like to see Memory Alpha return? If so, then it would be a perfect place to do item mark and rarity upgrades. I'm all for adding content to a game, not removing it. The Project Obelisk Terminal would also be a good spot put these crafting stuff in (I'll talk about that in a future post).

Keep in mind the following examples are using hypothetical item amounts and would be subject to balance.

For instance, upgrading a Mk II beam array to Mk IV would require only basic crafting materials - an emitter module, a focusing lens, and a basic tech upgrade - as well as the Mk II beam itself, which is consumed in the upgrade process. To save time, the project would be either instantaneous our take no longer than 30mins, I'll leave that up to you guys. Once upgrading past Mk XII, that is when the price really starts ramping up. From Mk XII to Mk XIV, you will require 3 focusing lenses, 3 emitter modules, 2 targeting interfaces, 2 Firing Sequencers, a Power Surge Regulator, Isolinear Circuitry, an Isolinear chip, and a Superior Tech Upgrade.

For Mk XIV to XV, you will need 5 focusing lenses, 4 emitter modules, 2 targeting interfaces, 2 firing sequencers, a power surge regulator, 2 Isolinear circuitry, 2 Isolinear chips and an Experimental Tech Upgrade.

Upgrading Rarity
These upgrades listed above are only for Mk quality, not rarity, and you cannot upgrade rarity through upgrading marks, there is not even a random chance of it happening. For rarity, you will need to collect a new crafting resource, which I am calling Equipment Frames for now. Equipment Frames are obtained by salvaging items of a specific quality, at a rate of 1-2 frames per salvaged item: Uncommon yields Standard Equipment Frames, Rare yields Custom Equipment Frames, Very Rare yields High-Grade Equipment Frames, Ultra-Rare yields Military-Spec Equipment Frames, and Epic yields Experimental Equipment Frames.

To apply equipment frames to items, you need to undertake the relevant project. To upgrade from Uncommon to Rare to Very Rare, you need 25 of the relevant equipment frames and a scaling amount of dilithium (50-100-200). To upgrade to Ultra-Rare, you need 25 Military-Spec Equipment Frames, Isolinear circuity and 350 dilithium. To upgrade to Epic you need 25 Experimental Equipment Frames, 10 Military-Spec equipment Frames, Isolinear Circuity, an Isolinear chip and 500 dilithium.

Salvage is no longer required. Re-rolling equipment modifiers will no longer be a thing. Salvage would be converted to dilithium at a fair rate.

Loots
Now the loot overhaul. Summed up, my loot system is still random, but the drops are based on the enemy you are facing. For instance, Federation ships (Mirror, or not) will drop phaser weapons, photon and quantum torps, some science and engineering consoles, deflector arrays etc. The Borg will drop plasma beams and torpedoes, engineering consoles, shield generators, control and drain oriented science consoles, etc. The Timeless will drop railguns, missile launchers, diffusion fields, etc.

Also, I want to add new loot-specific items, unique gear that can only be acquired by facing a certain enemy. The Borg can give a special science console that boosts through the roof control and drain expertise. The Klingons could drop a Raider Module, a tactical console that gives a small raider flanking bonus with bonuses to turn rate and speed. The Timeless could drop a unique Warp Core that allows the user to teleport around the map at will. The possibilities are endless.

And I should say as well that these loot changes will not apply to Foundry missions. Sorry, but the possibility of lazy farming tactics is blaringly obvious, I want these to loot changes to revitalize mission and STF content.

Also, the rarity of the loot will depend on the difficulty being played. Common, Uncommon and Rare will drop from Normal difficulty content, Uncommon, Rare and Very Rare will drop from Advanced difficulty content, and Rare, Very Rare and Ultra-Rare loot will drop from Elite difficulty content. Epic quality gear can be obtained as ultra-rare drops in Advanced difficulty content and higher. Completing Elite STFs give a very high chance of receiving Epics, and Epics can also be awarded from special Chain-Endeavours, Endeavour missions that chain together to give a long-term goal to be achieved over hours of gameplay.


That concludes my thoughts on overhauling the current gear upgrade and loot systems. Did I miss anything? I look forward to your feedback, and unlike my last post, I aim to be more active from now on. I actually have consistent access to internet now! Yay Australian internet! *sigh*
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • turkeysandvichsturkeysandvichs Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    A question to the reader: would you like to see Memory Alpha return? If so, then it would be a perfect place to do item mark and rarity upgrades.
    Memory Alpha should return, but not as some sort of mandatory spot for item upgrades. Memory Alpha got axed BECAUSE no one wanted to be forced to go to one spot in order to craft, this is just making the same mistake again.

    Good point. I never intended to force people to go there, I just thought it would be a nice touch. Everything I state in the post can be done in the R&D UI.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    For instance, upgrading a Mk II beam array to Mk IV would require only basic crafting materials - an emitter module, a focusing lens, and a basic tech upgrade - as well as the Mk II beam itself, which is consumed in the upgrade process. To save time, the project would be either instantaneous our take no longer than 30mins, I'll leave that up to you guys. Once upgrading past Mk XII, that is when the price really starts ramping up. From Mk XII to Mk XIV, you will require 3 focusing lenses, 3 emitter modules, 2 targeting interfaces, 2 Firing Sequencers, a Power Surge Regulator, Isolinear Circuitry, an Isolinear chip, and a Superior Tech Upgrade.

    Yikes. That's a lot of busywork compared to applying N tech upgrades.

    I understand you're going for immersion and role-playing, but many of us just want to click a few times and have the numbers go up.

    Perhaps you could ask someone to craft you a ship upgrade foundry mission instead? You could make yourself play through it each time you upgrade gear.

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    I just buy it in the Exchange and use Phoenix box upgrades (if I need to), any more. I have never liked crafting of any sort.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • turkeysandvichsturkeysandvichs Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    Yikes. That's a lot of busywork compared to applying N tech upgrades.

    I understand you're going for immersion and role-playing, but many of us just want to click a few times and have the numbers go up.

    I wasn't going for role-playing per se, more to just make use of available systems and remove the RNG from upgrading. I don't mind just clicking a button and seeing numbers go up, but the only way to make that process balanced (not gaining instant points for no work) is to add an RNG element. I hate RNG. I don't mind it in loot, but it makes upgrading frustrating because you could spend 1 or 2 tokens and get an instant rarity upgrade or waste 50 and tons of dil for absolutely nothing. (Phoenix Upgrade Tokens cost dil, so i still consider it a waste).

    I do agree that the crafting could be considered overkill, but its not like the current upgrade system was designed with any semblance of complexity in the first place, so its comparing apples and oranges. Instead of crafting components, perhaps upgrading mark could also be done by salvaging gear...hmmmm. Stand-by for an amendment to the main post.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I just buy it in the Exchange and use Phoenix box upgrades (if I need to), any more. I have never liked crafting of any sort.

    Me too, currently at least. But, for me at least, I still have to spend money for keys to sell in the exchange for EC, or converting zen to dil to buy the phoenix prize packs. I don't speak for other players, but I for one would love a way of upgrading that doesn't involve being an EC or dilithium tycoon.
  • turkeysandvichsturkeysandvichs Member Posts: 17 Arc User

    Yikes. That's a lot of busywork compared to applying N tech upgrades.

    I understand you're going for immersion and role-playing, but many of us just want to click a few times and have the numbers go up.

    Well, the crafting requirements are just examples, I would imagine they would be reduced if it ever made it to the live server. Still, the purpose of this rework is to make it more complex. I was never going for a role-playing angle, I just wanted to make this system more interesting and reliable and less of 'RNG stealing your time and resources'.

    I guess I could merge the rarity upgrade system into Mk upgrade to reduce the clicks and add more stuff to salvaging items. For instance, you could salvage a Mk VI Blue beam array and gain Blue quality Equipment Frames to Upgrade one of your Greens to Blue, as well as a...Modernisation Frame(?) to use to upgrade item Mk.

    Stand-by for an amendment to the main post.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I just buy it in the Exchange and use Phoenix box upgrades (if I need to), any more. I have never liked crafting of any sort.

    Same here, but one of the main purposes behind this rework is to remove RNG. Additionally, its difficult to become an EC or dilithium tycoon. I don't speak for other players, but I for one have to spend money of getting stuff to sell on the exchange, or converting zen to dil, in order to get high-end gear.
  • turkeysandvichsturkeysandvichs Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    I just got struck by the edit monster, so I'm not going to amend the main post.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    This is the first in what I hope to be a long line of short articles where I propose my ideas for revitalising Star Trek Online.

    I don't mean to be a downer, but asking for any kind of significant redesign of how the upgrade/loot system works at this point is simply unrealistic and never going to happen. Their development time is prioritized based on the principal of return on investment. While your idea isn't bad by any means, it also isn't going to return enough profit to justify the investment of resource time. It's not an exciting selling point for an expansion or update.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • turkeysandvichsturkeysandvichs Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    This is the first in what I hope to be a long line of short articles where I propose my ideas for revitalising Star Trek Online.

    I don't mean to be a downer, but asking for any kind of significant redesign of how the upgrade/loot system works at this point is simply unrealistic and never going to happen. Their development time is prioritized based on the principal of return on investment. While your idea isn't bad by any means, it also isn't going to return enough profit to justify the investment of resource time. It's not an exciting selling point for an expansion or update.

    Oh I fully understand that my ideas may never see the light of day. I'm just doing it for fun :)
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    The easiest way to bring R&D back to a more inherent and important system, would just be to make future reputations have material projects. The projects give things like armor frames, weapon frames, parts and such for them. Then have the actual rep piece, armor, shield, beam array, etc be in the appropriate R&D project, where you have to craft said piece of gear.

    For R&D itself, the RNG is TRIBBLE. Seriously, sit around somewhere and craft beams or cannons looking going for the [Pen] modifier. You can get lucky and get a few in a row. But, in general, you're looking at hundreds upon hundreds of them and seeing very few of that particular modifier.

    As far as the upgrade part. Meh, what we have is just fine. It was meant to be a dil sink, and was and still is, even with the phoenix upgrade. If you consider the millions of dil people spend to get those boxes going for the UR or Epic token. The phoenix token is just a way for the player to recoup that lost dil for not getting them. But in this instance, Mark is more important than rarity. Mark increases all the stats, where as rarity just adds another modifier. On this, I'd like to see crafting give a chance at crafting an epic version. Albeit a small one, but still a chance.

    On the loot part... this is something we've pitched and discussed countless times over the year. Use to have with the old MACO/KHG helmet drop in the Borg Elites, prior to reputations. The thing here is, do you make them bound or unbound? Cause really, these would be a "Can equip 1 of these" items. But anything like that goes in the a lockbox, so it can be monetized. However, vanity items would be a way to go with it.

    It's one of the problems I've seen with all of the systems in Doffing. Doffing, Admiarlty and R&D need to be tied together. The only thing that ties these three systems together is the crafting materials reward. Then using the loot idea, with the rep gear being made through R&D, add some doff/adm asignements that offer a materials as rewards as well. Or like the contested zones in the Dyson sphere, able to gain marks from doing them. Add to this, the R&D materials for the Rep gear, that's now crafted through R&D, would be unbound. This then gives rise to another use for those built up marks, other than just turning them into dil.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    The easiest way to bring R&D back to a more inherent and important system, would just be to make future reputations have material projects. The projects give things like armor frames, weapon frames, parts and such for them. Then have the actual rep piece, armor, shield, beam array, etc be in the appropriate R&D project, where you have to craft said piece of gear.
    And what do you suppose is the benefit from forcing people to jump through extra hoops for their items like that?
    For R&D itself, the RNG is TRIBBLE. Seriously, sit around somewhere and craft beams or cannons looking going for the [Pen] modifier. You can get lucky and get a few in a row. But, in general, you're looking at hundreds upon hundreds of them and seeing very few of that particular modifier.
    The RNG is fine. Without it, R&D would be just a horribly impractical store. "That particular modifier" being what everyone's after all the time, is where the real revamp is needed.
    As far as the upgrade part. Meh, what we have is just fine. It was meant to be a dil sink, and was and still is, even with the phoenix upgrade. If you consider the millions of dil people spend to get those boxes going for the UR or Epic token. The phoenix token is just a way for the player to recoup that lost dil for not getting them. But in this instance, Mark is more important than rarity. Mark increases all the stats, where as rarity just adds another modifier. On this, I'd like to see crafting give a chance at crafting an epic version. Albeit a small one, but still a chance.
    I've rather liked upgrades that work by combining spare copies of items.
    On the loot part... this is something we've pitched and discussed countless times over the year. Use to have with the old MACO/KHG helmet drop in the Borg Elites, prior to reputations. The thing here is, do you make them bound or unbound? Cause really, these would be a "Can equip 1 of these" items. But anything like that goes in the a lockbox, so it can be monetized. However, vanity items would be a way to go with it.
    No reason they can't make all of the above if they want. Bound, tradeable, single, multi, rare, common, whatever. More's the better.
    It's one of the problems I've seen with all of the systems in Doffing. Doffing, Admiarlty and R&D need to be tied together. The only thing that ties these three systems together is the crafting materials reward. Then using the loot idea, with the rep gear being made through R&D, add some doff/adm asignements that offer a materials as rewards as well. Or like the contested zones in the Dyson sphere, able to gain marks from doing them. Add to this, the R&D materials for the Rep gear, that's now crafted through R&D, would be unbound. This then gives rise to another use for those built up marks, other than just turning them into dil.
    Meh. Adding some decent doff assignments at all would be enough. They've revamped the doffs system multiple times, but the assignment lists stay the same. They've added two whole quadrants in my time and nothing interesting/rewarding to doff. Gamma doesn't have assignments at all, not even the old ones. The old favorites have all suffered inflation only good for filler anymore.

    New assignments chains, new unique rewards, dofficers with new powers in the doff system for a change instead of only lockboxes, and something to sink the excess dime-a-dozen blues/purples that the exchange is full of because downgrinding them into the fleet holdings is more trouble than its worth...that sort of things.

    And I would make doffs work location-independent like Admiralty. Especially since they never did fix the sector space assignment zones.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Is gear even worth going through all this to obtain? Probably not.

    Besides, the entire point of getting gear is to play the video game part of the game....
    Not get players stuck in extended crafting-upgrade nightmares in order to measure up to some min/max dream.

    And all that fancy gear won't work, anyways, if you don't practice using it in the video game content. So, you are still better off doing TFOs, replaying missions, and various patrols.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    Personally, I like the upgrade mechanic as is. For me, the important part is that it forces players to make choices regarding resources and reduces (not eliminate) the Mary Sue nature of everyone having all gear fully upgraded. The staggered nature of things like upgrade weekends further puts a flow restriction on it.

    What I would like to see is more RNG-based drops of unique gear - similar to what was proposed. I like the loot systems of games like Borderlands and Dark Souls where unique gear (that is actually very good top tier gear) can be obtained by someone willing to put the grind time into the game to get an RNG-based drop.

    Not that I want to slam doors behind me, but I like the idea that not all gear is available to all people because it forces player choices and variety in builds. At least with RNG-based drops, it's not time-gated and restricted to event re-run gods, but tied to player time, effort, and masochism (or in other words, player choices and decisions about how to play and what is important to that particular player).
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    What is REALLY needed honestly... is something to spend our mountains of GPL on. Can we just convert the DL store into a GPL store? I don't care if I have to pay 2 mil GPL for the Enterprise MACO outfit. I just want something to spend it on so I can stop building the Great Pyramids of Giza with my bars of Latinum.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    What is REALLY needed honestly... is something to spend our mountains of GPL on. Can we just convert the DL store into a GPL store? I don't care if I have to pay 2 mil GPL for the Enterprise MACO outfit. I just want something to spend it on so I can stop building the Great Pyramids of Giza with my bars of Latinum.

    Yep, gives us something like moving those overpriced Lobi consumables, or the Tholian drones, or Ferengi space beams, or ...?
This discussion has been closed.