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  • karriqkarriq Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    And unlike an OS or a BIOS, game server files generally don't have easy to use recovery/restoration media. Accidentally selecting and deleting three files is nowhere near as bad as it can get, trust me.

    I strongly disagree. Scheduled backups. + pre patch backups. +your own backups. backups, backups and backups :). Cause anything can happen - starting from your system software\hardware failure and ending with natural disaster. Used to have entire closet of backups.

  • chritmarsh#4963 chritmarsh Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    So is there any update on the Endeavor/Foundry issue? Is it gonna be back up today? Are they gonna change the endeavor?
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  • spock#1073 spock Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally find this quite amusing. Granted it's no fun, but it is a bit interesting to think of how long the Foundry has been down, and add a somewhat funny mistake to it that'll prolong that downtime. This will be interesting.
  • fadamsxiicrypticfadamsxiicryptic Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    karriq wrote: »
    I strongly disagree. Scheduled backups. + pre patch backups. +your own backups. backups, backups and backups :). Cause anything can happen - starting from your system software\hardware failure and ending with natural disaster. Used to have entire closet of backups.

    Yes there are backups, I didn't say there weren't, but actually using them and verifying that they will work with a minimum of issues in an MMO production environment is an entirely different proposition, unlike with something as relatively simple as an operating system or BIOS where generally its fairly easy to do a restoration.
    I am a Starfleet Officer first, but an Intelligence Professional second to none. With pride in my heritage, but focused on the future. Performing the first task of an Army; To find, know and never lose the enemy. With a sense of urgency and of tenacity, professional and physical fitness. And above all: Integrity--for in truth lies victory. Always at Silent War while ready for a shooting war: The silent warrior of the Starfleet team


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  • fadamsxiicrypticfadamsxiicryptic Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    spock wrote:
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I personally find this quite amusing. Granted it's no fun, but it is a bit interesting to think of how long the Foundry has been down, and add a somewhat funny mistake to it that'll prolong that downtime. This will be interesting.

    That's how it goes sometimes. If Kael was adding stuff it can only be a good thing. I just hope he adds the Klingon rebels as an enemy NPC species because its the only kill accolade that I don't have but I'm not killing that Ferasan on Nimbus III a thousand times to get it. I believe Zero had said she'd do it at some point but didn't get around to it before she moved on.

    Weird things happen with MMOs though, developers break stuff unintentionally sometimes. Sometimes players find ways of doing something they're not supposed to be able to do with weird results. For example a couple of years ago over on ESO one of my guildies found a way through a wall in the PvP zone (Cyrodiil) into the Gold Coast which was being worked on by the developers at the time, it had place markers and outlines for where Kvatch, the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary and Anvil would go and all kinds of other stuff and since the Gold Coast DLC hadn't been announced yet it led to a lot of speculation.

    Anyhow, I doubt it'll be offline that much longer, I kind of expect to see it back online by the middle of next week, but who knows. All I know is that I haven't been playing much lately since the Foundry is what I spend the majority of my time in STO doing and I miss it so I hope it's sooner than later, and I think all of us here can agree on that.
    I am a Starfleet Officer first, but an Intelligence Professional second to none. With pride in my heritage, but focused on the future. Performing the first task of an Army; To find, know and never lose the enemy. With a sense of urgency and of tenacity, professional and physical fitness. And above all: Integrity--for in truth lies victory. Always at Silent War while ready for a shooting war: The silent warrior of the Starfleet team


    Original Join Date: 19 December 2010
  • karriqkarriq Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Yes there are backups, I didn't say there weren't, but actually using them and verifying that they will work with a minimum of issues in an MMO production environment is an entirely different proposition, unlike with something as relatively simple as an operating system or BIOS where generally its fairly easy to do a restoration.

    Again. Strongly disagreed. :) if you just rolling back to some point of restoration - its a same process for all things. Fixing a bugged patch - actually is somewhat more complicated for OS than for MMO game server. However there is a lot of similarities. First - you need to compare a working version to bugged one. How? Well fist step is actually simple. You even dont need to do manually, there is software for that. IF you actually do it - missing files and folders is first things what you will find. Second thing - difference in configuration files. Looking for errors in lines of code is more complicated process, but you need a mentioned proccess to know - which files have been changed so you will have some idea which files you need to check. But wait... There was just missing folders or files. And you need just a few moments to fix it. :) But... Judging by the time they needed to find out bout missing files - is really disturbing. And means one thing - no one was doing anything bout a problem. And thats it.


  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    Ibi cookies for everyone involved. Preferably freshly cloned.

    We have a team for holiday cookie preparation and delivery now. ;)
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  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,968 Arc User
    No Fluffy?! 1 star!
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    No Fluffy?! 1 star!

    *makes note for further doodles*
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,597 Arc User
    Soooo....

    Any word on an new ETA? (because of the latest bug)

    I kind of assume it won't even get looked at until next Monday due to the holiday weekend. I only hope that now it's off the main radar (not an Endeavor anymore), it won't get kicked to the back burner for another couple months - - again. :'(
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    Soooo....

    Any word on an new ETA? (because of the latest bug)

    I kind of assume it won't even get looked at until next Monday due to the holiday weekend. I only hope that now it's off the main radar (not an Endeavor anymore), it won't get kicked to the back burner for another couple months - - again. :'(
    There's no ETA I know atm. That said we should get it up ASAP unless it hits the too hard to the winter event time, after all the devs don't kick it down the line because they hate us but rather there's other things they think take priority.


    Now we can try to change those priorities but we won't do it by insulting the devs.
  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 639 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Soooo....

    Any word on an new ETA? (because of the latest bug)

    I kind of assume it won't even get looked at until next Monday due to the holiday weekend. I only hope that now it's off the main radar (not an Endeavor anymore), it won't get kicked to the back burner for another couple months - - again. :'(
    There's no ETA I know atm. That said we should get it up ASAP unless it hits the too hard to the winter event time, after all the devs don't kick it down the line because they hate us but rather there's other things they think take priority.


    Now we can try to change those priorities but we won't do it by insulting the devs.

    Yeah, at any rate... TRIBBLE this if it is going to be an impediment to the Winter Event's programmation. I want my T6 Fekh'iri ship. At that point, the Foundry can wait a couple more weeks as far as i'm concerned.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    The priority thing this week was U.S. thanksgiving. Worth pointing out that a bunch of devs stayed after hours yesterday working on stuff, and that included Zero.

    We sent them GIFs because Kael told us to. If they were working on the Foundry and something breaks again, you can probably blame me.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Where are you getting all this info from Duncan, is that from Twitter?

    Yup, Kael said a bunch of the devs were working late on Wed and tagged them for a GIF war. Rest is "well, maybe it's Foundry related" inference.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • chritmarsh#4963 chritmarsh Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    Tempted to start using Twitter so I can keep up with all the info they decide to put out on it instead of on the games ACTUAL forums. They need to get the foundry up THIS WEEK! I'm hitting a huge wall with this game. I've beaten every episode, every story arc, and the TFO's are starting to get boring. Without the foundry, there isn't much left to do. I really do LOVE STO, however, I've been very tempted to start looking for a new game lately. There are SOOOO many people who aren't playing anymore cuz of the foundry being down. Cryptic needs to understand just how important of an aspect it is when it comes to retaining players. They need to keep the foundry in the top 5 on their list of priorities at ALL TIMES. Not just for us foundry authors but for ALL of the players who, like me, get board of having nothing but TFO's to do all the time.
    "Today is a good day to die... but I'd rather go to Risa."-Fleet Admiral Christopher D. Marshall
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  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    Clearly the foundry is not even on their radar despite all that has been said

    Who said the contrary? Is clear that they dont care about the foundry, someone think otherwise??
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    OH, the Devs were trying to help Kael fix the errors he made. It seems to me they are doing what they can.

    It was a long holiday weekend here in the U.S. Lots of people were traveling or hosting out of town family. Everyone should be getting back home and back to work. It is only Tuesday.

    And besides the point, worker bees don't get to set the priorities or deadlines.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Bug fixes also don't always work to set deadlines. They can't rush something that isn't ready to go live or isn't properly sorted out yet. Dismissing Cryptic and their efforts regarding the current bug preventing the Foundry from coming back online isn't going to result in it being fixed any faster. It'll be ready when it's properly ready. They tried the Friday before last. That didn't work. Stuff happens.

    Now I've been happy to act as an intermediary but if this discussion is going to flame out I'm also happy stepping back and letting matters resolve as they will. Maybe we'll hear something on Ten Forward weekly tomorrow, but if not I'm satisfied for the moment giving it a week or two before making the effort of contacting Kael directly for an update (even with everything I want to be working on right now and need to wrap up following downtime, both collaboratively and personally.) If it takes more time, it takes more time.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • chritmarsh#4963 chritmarsh Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    Bug fixes also don't always work to set deadlines. They can't rush something that isn't ready to go live or isn't properly sorted out yet. Dismissing Cryptic and their efforts regarding the current bug preventing the Foundry from coming back online isn't going to result in it being fixed any faster. It'll be ready when it's properly ready. They tried the Friday before last. That didn't work. Stuff happens.

    Now I've been happy to act as an intermediary but if this discussion is going to flame out I'm also happy stepping back and letting matters resolve as they will. Maybe we'll hear something on Ten Forward weekly tomorrow, but if not I'm satisfied for the moment giving it a week or two before making the effort of contacting Kael directly for an update (even with everything I want to be working on right now and need to wrap up following downtime, both collaboratively and personally.) If it takes more time, it takes more time.

    I totally get what you're saying. I know they are trying. I know there is A LOT to running any type of MMORPG, let alone when you're regularly updating it and adding content. I get that things like this happen and that it is pointless, if not totally counterproductive, to sit here and trash on the developers because of it.

    That being said, it seems Cryptic may be overextending themselves. AoD is a prime example. Now, I'm still relatively new to the STO community and this is the only MMORPG I've ever played, so I have no frame of reference for comparrison, but it seems to me that AoD is FAR, FAR more bug ridden than Victory is Life ever was. And we are nearly 2 months past it's initial release.
    From the few people I've talked to, MMO's aren't typically this bugged out. I could be wrong, and this could be typical for MMO's but it seems to me that they need to focus much less on releasing new content and more on ensuring the content available actually works right.

    It feels like they are in such a hurry to get new stuff out there that they don't take the time needed to properly work all of the bugs out before release... and it seems to just be snowballing out of control. Perhaps they should take a step back from developing new content for two or three months and focus on fixing all of the broken aspects of the game.
    It wouldn't kill them or STO to allow foundry authors to take charge of new content for a bit while the developers go back and fix all of the bugs in the game.

    I saw one post from a developer on the forums recently that was asking members to start listing all of the broken parts of one of the battlezones that has apparently been broken for quite some time. Why is this just NOW being addressed? Why did was that aspect of the game allowed to get that broken? Why is all of this additional content continuing to come out when there are parts of the game that are as broken as this.

    I understand the need to keep the game evolving in order to avoid it fizzing out but it would really help if Cryptic either hired additional staff in order to help facilitate the repairing of bugs. That way, they could keep up the pace with developing and releasing new content, and still ensure that nothing is being neglected due to deadlines or bugs and such (like the foundry).

    I dunno... there just has to be a better way. At the VERY LEAST they could keep us updated about the foundry. It makes NO sense why they won't keep us posted about that aspect of the game. The ONLY conclusion I can come to about why they aren't really big on the foundry is that, as developers it may, in a way, feel threatening.

    For example, I have a lot of health problems. So, out of necessity, I've had to learn A LOT of medical information. So much so that I've encountered several doctors who actually get offeneded when they realize I am knowledgable. No, I don't have a degree and no, I could not do their jobs without further training, but that doesn't stop them from taking offense. I'm wondering if something similar may be going on with the foundry and the developers.

    No, most of us don't have degrees in game design and no, most of us could not do the developers jobs without training. But does that mean they don't feel at all threatened about a system that allows the average person to essentially do much of their jobs... for FREE?
    TBH, if I was a developer, I probably wouldn't be too fond of the foundry either, for that very reason.

    I dunno... just some things to think about. Thanks for reading my rant. LOL (see what happens when I don't have the foundry to occupy my time)
    "Today is a good day to die... but I'd rather go to Risa."-Fleet Admiral Christopher D. Marshall
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  • chritmarsh#4963 chritmarsh Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    Agreed. I only proposed the 'threatened' possibility because I am the type of person who needs to understand the reasoning behind things and after much thought and deliberation, that is the best explanation I can come up with. If that IS what it is, that does not mean they can just get rid of the foundry system. The higher ups at cryptic could be insistant on it staying despite any hypothetical developer complaints.

    All of this is just speculation. I couldn't agree more than when left in a silent vacuum like we are (especially regarding the foundry), it is not surprising that all sorts of wild scenerios are thrown out there.

    "Today is a good day to die... but I'd rather go to Risa."-Fleet Admiral Christopher D. Marshall
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    You're on your own guys, the state of the Foundry is what it is and while you're more than welcome to vent about your personal frustrations I'm (to be frank) tired of having standard community interactions (ie. me informing you guys what's going on) dismissively used as platforms for said venting (see. vacuum.) It's not my job, that's true, though note that keeping you guys in the loop was something I was happy to do regardless (especially in light of other senior authors steering clear of these discussions.)

    As is, better for me to say nothing to avoid unnecessarily stirring frustrations and pushing the Foundry community towards a r/STObuilds situation. The Foundry will be fixed when it's fixed. Folks who want the latest news can tune into the Foundry Roundtable twitter account (don't need a twitter account of your own, can also just bookmark the page.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    You're on your own guys.

    Do you mean you are no longer taking part in this discussion? Your choice mate.

    If you mean we are on our own as far as Cryptic is concerned, then I would agree, they certainly aren't telling us anything.

    Cryptic's been telling us what's going on. In the five full work days since the Foundry was taken back offline we have absolutely no reason to believe "bug fix in progress, no ETA yet" doesn't still stand. Every week we have the refrain "we don't talk about upcoming content" and as someone who listens to ten forward weekly you know the explicitly stated reasons for that. Need an illustration for what might happen to unexpectedly thwart an ETA? See. the Friday before last and the aborted relaunch of the Foundry. Stuff happens and as a direct result uncertain situations (such as what we're in now) can arise where the only update to give is "hang tight, we're working on it."

    I'd like to help convey that information, but it's clear that you're not interested in a discussion. That requires some acknowledgement of what the other person is saying. See again. vacuum. Thanking me is a rather hollow gesture in light of the claim that Cryptic has been completely silent with respect to the Foundry. So what have I been conveying here, nothing? Am I just making this up? If Cryptic is silent then how can I be collecting progress updates from Cryptic about the Foundry? Why bother continuing when by your explicit statements it's been entirely without meaning? That may be how you feel but expressing in this way it is your choice. You would like Cryptic (the official entity) to be more forthcoming with the forums, so what I do is moot to you because it's not providing that level of official recognition (never mind the information conveyed either way.) The only function my posts have then is just to act as a platform for escalating venting in hopes of forcing official comment. It's not helping the situation.

    There's enough to be concerned with regarding the Foundry without these kinds of interactions propelling community dynamics to untenable positions. So, we're simply done. This argument and my efforts regarding Foundry news are simply not worth maintaining. Material developments are best suited to informing the forums as to the current state of the Foundry.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • josemialotjosemialot Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    You're on your own guys.

    Do you mean you are no longer taking part in this discussion? Your choice mate.

    If you mean we are on our own as far as Cryptic is concerned, then I would agree, they certainly aren't telling us anything.

    Cryptic's been telling us what's going on. In the five full work days since the Foundry was taken back offline we have absolutely no reason to believe "bug fix in progress, no ETA yet" doesn't still stand. Every week we have the refrain "we don't talk about upcoming content" and as someone who listens to ten forward weekly you know the explicitly stated reasons for that. Need an illustration for what might happen to unexpectedly thwart an ETA? See. the Friday before last and the aborted relaunch of the Foundry. Stuff happens and as a direct result uncertain situations (such as what we're in now) can arise where the only update to give is "hang tight, we're working on it."

    I'd like to help convey that information, but it's clear that you're not interested in a discussion. That requires some acknowledgement of what the other person is saying. See again. vacuum. Thanking me is a rather hollow gesture in light of the claim that Cryptic has been completely silent with respect to the Foundry. So what have I been conveying here, nothing? Am I just making this up? If Cryptic is silent then how can I be collecting progress updates from Cryptic about the Foundry? Why bother continuing when by your explicit statements it's been entirely without meaning? That may be how you feel but expressing in this way it is your choice. You would like Cryptic (the official entity) to be more forthcoming with the forums, so what I do is moot to you because it's not providing that level of official recognition (never mind the information conveyed either way.) The only function my posts have then is just to act as a platform for escalating venting in hopes of forcing official comment. It's not helping the situation.

    There's enough to be concerned with regarding the Foundry without these kinds of interactions propelling community dynamics to untenable positions. So, we're simply done. This argument and my efforts regarding Foundry news are simply not worth maintaining. Material developments are best suited to informing the forums as to the current state of the Foundry.

    8 weeks, and no reults at all. And you tell us they there even care abou the foundry? lol man, you still belive in santa?
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    josemialot wrote: »
    8 weeks, and no reults at all. And you tell us they there even care abou the foundry? lol man, you still belive in santa?

    Yeah, I took the effort and reached out myself.

    i9TrZLP.png

    I'm quite comfortable letting things remain as they are.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,968 Arc User
    Foundry back now please! Then DSC challenge!!!!
This discussion has been closed.