Let us measure, not debate, how much of DPS is the player's piloting skill and how much is gear

sophlogimo
sophlogimo Member Posts: 6,507 Arc User
I propose the following challenge to find how much of a give DPS is skill and how much is gear.

For that, we obviously need to have the same build, so we can eliminate that variable. The best way to do that, I believe, is for several players to use a tactical Jem'Hadar character, take him fresh out of the tutorial without adjusting anything, not even boff powers or energy levels, and take him to a solo mission (I propose Sakari System Patrol we'll have to use the initial fight against the Idran Swarmers, but set your Difficulty to Elite right when on the first map of the new character; it will then be Elite on all following maps already) on Elite difficulty, then report the DPS (or even the parse).

By comparing players of various skill levels, we should pretty easily find out what the skill-based range for DPS is.

I'll post my results later today.
Post edited by sophlogimo on
Remember, STO is nothing but a cosmetics game, where only the rule of cool matters. The game mechanics are intentionally out of balance, don't try to "optimize" anything, as it would just frustrate you.
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Comments

  • tunebreaker
    tunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    If I give you my paypal, will you send me 10€ necessary to buy zen (smallest amount possible, afaik) to unlock new character slot?
  • peterconnorfirst
    peterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    You found the way back to your signature. That's a good first step OP. :)
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    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • peterconnorfirst
    peterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    If I give you my paypal, will you send me 10€ necessary to buy zen (smallest amount possible, afaik) to unlock new character slot?

    That's one of the lamest excuses I have read. :smiley:

    Not if u you don't expect him to spend his own money on further powercreep. More toons, more dil more invincible. ;)

    You came so far so quickly, dont fall back in ur old habbits now. :)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • kiralyn
    kiralyn Member Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    There's also multiple layers of "gear" between Bad players and Skilled players. There's the basic stuff on the ship (weapons, consoles, engines), there's active DOFF slots, there's BOFF passives, there's BOFF tray powers, there's character traits... having all of those in high quality & so that they all synergise well is a huge difference as well. (Heck, without the various power-cooldown-reduction boosts - and other things I can't think of - can a "skilled" player actually demonstrate the full difference in piloting skill?)

    Compared to, say, the beginning player who follows the basic "how to build a ship" advice of "get weapons of all one energy type, and damage consoles that match".

    (hah, that reminds me of how I assigned Active DOFF slots when I first discovered them - "Damn, I need a free spot for this new DOFF I earned! I know, I'll shove this white doff with a power that sounds kind of useful into an Active slot to free up roster space!" /facepalm And I generally pick my BOFFs by appearance/race/theme, rather than checking for their passives. But I'm not trying to be Pro, I've never really read meta-build guides for any MMO I've played.)
  • where2r1
    where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Omg...I do not understand all this.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • mirrorterran
    mirrorterran Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    Hmm. The problem here is you are assuming that DPS is end all be all. I could do zero dps and be better at this game than most.
  • where2r1
    where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    What is considered "piloting skill" for you? Just flying around?
    Should a better test be a map you have not done before?
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • wideningxgyre
    wideningxgyre Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I predict massive differences in performance between players with identical gear. Gear is much much less important than skill.

    Interesting. My first thought was that with everyone using such a basic build with fewer degrees of piloting discretion and fewer things to manage, "piloting skill" would have diminishing returns on such a build and the dps curve (x-axis = "piloting skill" and y-axis = dps) would flatten rather quickly such that there would be smaller differences between people above a certain inflection point.

    While you'd need everyone to have the same build, there needs to be sufficient complexity to discriminate. True, one might argue that since it's a percentage, it might work. But, that assumes a linear correlation that I'm not sure exists.

    I'd suspect that it's one of the reasons spamming spacebar works for so long for so many people in the game, but seems to become counterproductive later.

  • where2r1
    where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    > @sophlogimo said:
    > I feel puzzled how so many people feel the urge to explain why they don't participate.

    Because they really don't give a TRIBBLE, and I don't see why you do.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • where2r1
    where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Why does it matter how someone else plays?
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • where2r1
    where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    You need to find people who care about that data you are collecting. It is not the people here.

    They have their group data, already.
    If you want to continue with them, you must add your parse to their program.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • where2r1
    where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Good luck!
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • postagepaid
    postagepaid Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    Without debate or discussion to put the numbers into context this is more like a contest involving a full bladder and a wall.
  • lordsteve1
    lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Well I got one cannot partake in this test. I have no slots for new toons and im sure as hell not deleting one or buying a slot.

    I’d suggest find a dirt cheap freebie build anyone can use and then selecting a patrol or something like Starbase 231 for a test.
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  • alcaatraz
    alcaatraz Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    While I have a character slot, I need to study for a metrology exam this week.

    However, I think this brings up an interesting topic of "what is skill". Does it involve keybinds and setting up a tray? Does it also mean that my rational thought would be that an engineering character would do better here because of power management and durability one might face? How about a Science captain who has a mix of both debuffs and damage buffs as well as durability powers?

    There's also the case to be made about the actual consistency of this fight; I cannot remember it at all, so what's involved in this? ISA (if that's what this is about, I'm not quite sure) has a level of consistency in a close space that allows for everyone to be recorded at once and that's about it. In this patrol / mission (I'm not even sure which fight that's being discussed), is there a consistent number of spawns?

    How about pets, as you included? You (the pilot) doesn't pick or control the pet so should they be used? You do decide when Fleet support comes in so is that included even if you don't control it directly?

    What about procs? All this other random stuff that just 'happens' (like critical's even) isn't part of piloting. Weapon activation order is decided by you but is that skill?

    I ask because I do really truly want to know what people define to be skill and what consequences that has on the impact. I believe piloting to be lots of things, including choice of gear traits and weapon and power activation, but I don't include pets, but would include where you place a fleet support.
    --- @alcaatraz || I make tanks and do crazy maths stuffs ---
    "I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul."
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