Is this "Working as Intended" (Drain Stuff)

odinforever20000
odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
edited September 2018 in The Shipyard
https://imgur.com/a/hVjMwlX


This is 159 DrainX Bug Ship is Vs my 802 Drain X Ship
The Bug ship has Default Specializations (I disabled these) and Traits for a LVL 65 Jem Toon
.Not even the Pip for the Subsystem Drain resistance.
Power Transfer Rate is 240%


Why are these so low?
Post edited by odinforever20000 on

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Comments

  • odinforever20000
    odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Just to Sum up if you cant see or don't want to see the screen shot..

    Results Against my Test ship

    Bajor Warp Core Shows -34 ALL...
    -5 Weapons and -17 Engines Shields and Aux

    Pilfered Power (Control abilities Drain) -49 Weapons And Aux
    -5 Weapons and -19 Aux

    Aceton Assimilator shows -73 All Every sec (Not draining per tick like tykens..Just 1 application like Esphon)
    -17 Weapons -28 Engines Shields and Aux

    Energy Siphon II Shows -88 All
    -34 Weapons -44 Engines Shields and Aux

    Tykens Rift 3 shows -98.5 All Per sec
    -34 All Per sec.

    Shield Drain abilities hit for around 38% of their listed values.
    Many of the Subsytem Drain abilities are also draining (at the higher values) for around 38% of their mouse over values as well.

    At 5x the DrainX as my Test ship I don't understand how I got these numbers.Can someone help me understand?



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  • odinforever20000
    odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    Has nothing to do with my Power levels or "Drain needing a place to go."As Not ALL drain abilites return energy to the Ship (Tykens, Shield drains, Aceton Assimilators)..So that is bunk..

    Pryor...This was against an Escort (Low Drain Resistance) Vs 800 (High) Drain Sci Ship. I controlled both Ships at the same time...

    This is not a PVP discussion just me trying to understand Why im not getting the results listed in my tool tip.

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  • lordsteve1
    lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Well that just sucks (and not in the good power draining way!) and it explains how broken drain still seems to be.

    I did play with a drain build a few days ago and even a Tykens Rift 3 with DrainX up to near 700 was not appearing to have much affect against NPC ships.

    That JH escort should be dead in the water but clearly all your drains are only about 50% effective, and that's not a very drain resistant ship you're targeting.
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  • odinforever20000
    odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Well that just sucks (and not in the good power draining way!) and it explains how broken drain still seems to be.

    I did play with a drain build a few days ago and even a Tykens Rift 3 with DrainX up to near 700 was not appearing to have much affect against NPC ships.

    That JH escort should be dead in the water but clearly all your drains are only about 50% effective, and that's not a very drain resistant ship you're targeting.

    LOL only *Minor* drain resistance seems to take my abilities down to 38% efficacy...Aceton seems to be broken ..At least according to the toop tip for what It does... Tykens should just be a 1 hit no power at 800-1000 DrainX (-100+ ALL per sec)..

    Thats Said..There are NPCs that are Drain immune..Certain Borg Ships are but not all of them...(The winking off on shield indicator is what I use when I drop a tykens)

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  • alcaatraz
    alcaatraz Member Posts: 112 Arc User

    At 5x the DrainX as my Test ship I don't understand how I got these numbers.Can someone help me understand?



    If I'm reading this right, you applied drains from one ship to another, checked the results and found they were off.

    What were the two players DrainX values, and did the target ship have anything else resisting subsystem drains?
    --- @alcaatraz || I make tanks and do crazy maths stuffs ---
    "I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul."
  • alcaatraz
    alcaatraz Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    So I volunteered @tunebreaker to help me get some numbers. We stripped Gruber's ship down to no DrainX sources so it was just the native 100 DrainX he had on his ship from the skill tree. This would mean he would have a 0.5x mod on any incoming drain:
    1/(1+DrainX/100) = 1/(1+1) = 1/2 = 0.5

    This means we can just take any tooltip value I had and reduce it to half its value to find the effective magnitude.

    A note on Tykens Rift: I'm fairly certain this uses the targets on EPS to reapply / scale up the drain, and I cant find out what its doing since we don't have a large enough pool of power to really get a good grasp (it moves 125 aux to 0 in about 2 seconds).

    I also don't own an aceton amiplifier to check but the numbers in here work out to be effective
    73/(1+1.59) = 28.19

    Edit: I'm ordering power levels as W/S/E/A for here rather than write it out fully.

    ----


    After bajor core

    -33.9/(1+1) = -16.95

    84 71 66 105

    To:

    67 53 49 88
    • 84-17 = 67
    • 71-17 = 54
    • 66-17 = 49
    • 105-17 = 88

    ----

    After ES

    -66.1/2 = -33.05

    84 71 66 105

    To:

    50 36 33 73
    • 84-33 = 51
    • 71-33 = 38
    • 66-33 = 33
    • 105-33 = 72

    ----

    After Pilfered Power

    -48.5/2 = -24.25

    75 63 64 101 (we took off the core here to avoid W-> issues)

    To:

    51 63 64 77
    • 75-25 = 50
    • 101-25 = 76

    ----

    QP Torp

    TT: 55961.7/2 = 27980.85

    Ayjei,,Gruber,,,*,Quantum Phase Transfer,Pn.41e8761,Shield,,27826.8,0
    %error = |(27826.8-27980.85)/(27980.85)| = 0.55%

    Which I'm going to call close enough. I believe this is affected by damage swing so you will need to apply the +/-5% variance here.

    ----

    On the Power levels...we only have 2 digits of accuracy here so its really hard to tell exactly what the outcome should be but 1 or 2 away is also good enough IMO.

    ----

    Edit 2: This isn't meant to say I don't believe you, it's just I can't duplicate the results.
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  • tunebreaker
    tunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Yeah, just like Jay showed here, we couldn't see any huge discrepancies in our mathematical values compared to actual values, during our own test.

    And the shield drain values for you seem totally fine. No idea why your power drain numbers (not including Aceton Assimilator) don't add up though.

    Edit: Ok... my answer is going to be a disappointment for you, but running numbers with @alcaatraz again, your drains are either working fine or overperforming (apart from the weird case of Tyken's).

    Weapon is drained in lower amounts than everything else cause your target was overcapped. Your Jam Sensors (with Pilfered Power) and AA are draining as they should. Your ES and Bajoran Core are, for some reason, draining more than they should.
    For example, ES should do... 88.6/(1+1.59)=34.2, meanwhile we can see 44-45.
    Bajoran core should do 34.5/(1+1.59)=13.32, not 17-18.

    Still no idea why they are acting like that, but at least the discrepancy with wep power vs everything else should be explained. :)
  • lordsteve1
    lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    pryor#5476 wrote: »
    ......yes im new........ but consider what i am saying, you have a lot of experience in this game, BUT i have more RECENT experience, I have seen the game mechanics change may times, take into consideration the energy being drained has no where to go, but in a team scenario PvP and PvE my 500 DrainX has sevear debilitating effects upon Foe's when teammates are near by.

    What are you talking about?
    Experience is experience, stop talking nonsense.
    And even if you have 500+ DrainX and start draining enemy ships the energy you drain (if it goes back to user) only goes to YOU, so your teammates don't benefit from it. The only benefit they have is that the enemy looses shield, weapon power etc.

    When you drain a target it looses its power, and you might gain some of that pack (as with leech consoles or energy siphon etc). Doesn't matter if there's nowhere for it to go, whatever the hell that means. An enemy will still loose power regardless of if said power goes somewhere or not.
    Please don't go about spreading nonsense as advice.
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  • odinforever20000
    odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    alcaatraz wrote: »

    At 5x the DrainX as my Test ship I don't understand how I got these numbers.Can someone help me understand?



    If I'm reading this right, you applied drains from one ship to another, checked the results and found they were off.

    What were the two players DrainX values, and did the target ship have anything else resisting subsystem drains?
    https://imgur.com/a/hVjMwlX


    This is 159 DrainX Bug Ship is Vs my 802 Drain X Ship
    The Bug ship has Default Specializations (I disabled these) and Traits for a LVL 65 Jem Toon
    .Not even the Pip for the Subsystem Drain resistance.
    Power Transfer Rate is 240%

    I actually controlled both Players as I have 2 accounts (ran at the same time)...Created the Jem Account when I heard I could go straight to 60 with it so It would be a good test dummy.

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  • odinforever20000
    odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    Hrmm..Well Thankyou @alcaatraz

    SO as long as that person\NPC has drain resistance drain has and will always suck...

    I did find with no Drain resistances on that same ship..I Drained for the Full value of all drain abilities.

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  • odinforever20000
    odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    Yeah, just like Jay showed here, we couldn't see any huge discrepancies in our mathematical values compared to actual values, during our own test.

    And the shield drain values for you seem totally fine. No idea why your power drain numbers (not including Aceton Assimilator) don't add up though.

    Edit: Ok... my answer is going to be a disappointment for you, but running numbers with @alcaatraz again, your drains are either working fine or overperforming (apart from the weird case of Tyken's).

    Weapon is drained in lower amounts than everything else cause your target was overcapped. Your Jam Sensors (with Pilfered Power) and AA are draining as they should. Your ES and Bajoran Core are, for some reason, draining more than they should.
    For example, ES should do... 88.6/(1+1.59)=34.2, meanwhile we can see 44-45.
    Bajoran core should do 34.5/(1+1.59)=13.32, not 17-18.

    Still no idea why they are acting like that, but at least the discrepancy with wep power vs everything else should be explained. :)

    Thankyou Guys.

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  • odinforever20000
    odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,849 Arc User
    pryor#5476 wrote: »
    That's good to know after reading all y'all stuff.
    When I first started this game I would fly an Engineering ship giving only about 2 sci consoles, in missions I would always find my shields being Drained and getting killed no matter what I did, with Specializations now could bring out my old T5U Excelcier having only 2 sci consoles, from what I read hear I can fly it in a PvP or PvE team match without getting my shields stripped right away with enough Drain Resistance.
    I'm not at computer right now, I remember Constible has some sci resistances not from you target, and temporal has some, please list specializations that help resist shield Drains.
    If this works out I'm going to buy the Resolute and put the Old Excelcier skin on it as I wanted a Command Ship for my Fed Toon anyway.

    Um..Pryor..This thread basically confirmed..If you have JUST the DrainX Skills from your skill tree your protected (BY ALOT)..Heck as soon as you hit 50 that drain resistance formula kicks in and nearly everything (there are some traits that do not use that fomula) is knocked down 2/3rds the mouse over for that ability.

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