User resource import/export.

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  pendra37

  pendra37#5088

  Member Posts: 29 Arc User

  September 2018

  These things are not in because the developer resource assigned to the foundry is a non paid intern and the time dedicated to development is every Friday between 4:45-5:00.

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  tomebe11 Member Posts: 19 Arc User

  September 2018

  I think this is a great idea. Importing your own assets could make a more extended universe within STO such as new races to become friends with or bitter enemies - the possibilities could be virtually endless.

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  duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User

  September 2018 edited September 2018

  tomebe11 wrote: »

  I think this is a great idea. Importing your own assets could make a more extended universe within STO such as new races to become friends with or bitter enemies - the possibilities could be virtually endless.

  
  I think this fits in the same category of argument as "just give Foundry authors full dev tools." That's not what the Foundry is aiming to be and the endless possibilities for constructive use (assuming folks have STO quality 3D modeling experience) are directly counterbalanced by the doubly endless possibilities for misuse and abuse. Very few Foundry authors have that 3D experience and the prospect of pulling from 3D asset stores to populate Foundry missions with (as the much more accessible option for people) presents Cryptic with the nightmare scenario of trying to police a Foundry operating similar to Gary's Mod both for age appropriateness and EULA compliance (see. copyright infringement and licensing issues) to retain approval from CBS (if they would ever be okay with folks importing their own 3D assets for sanctioned use in an officially licensed game.) The Foundry is supported, by in large, from dev volunteer time and there likely isn't the personnel available to monitor incoming assets and enforce the TOU.
  
  Furthermore, Cryptic would also have to manage and store all this imported data. The server costs (potentially exceeding data storage for main game assets through the potential volume of submissions if the system was at all active) would likely never be compensated for by increased Foundry plays and the indirect effect that has on player retention and game satisfaction (if we assume a net positive benefit.) There's less radical alternatives for dev time that would have a much more direct impact on Foundry activity (ex. improving the search UI in the mission journal) and the ability of authors to make good missions (ex. fix bugs.)
  
  And right now it's a big push just to get key bugs fixed. Rebuilding the Foundry to effectively be a free modding tool just isn't a workable idea (I think.) Limitation is part of the format and it does help focus authors and promote creative problem solving (when the possibilities are endless, a lot more professional experience is required to manage the scope and intricacy of the project.)

  Post edited by duncanidaho11 on September 2018

  Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.

  ---

  Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence

  ---

  Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!

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  castsbugc Member Posts: 830 Arc User

  September 2018

  And the likelihood of them opening any more ports then 100% needed for gameplay is so absurdly small...

  

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  tomebe11 Member Posts: 19 Arc User

  September 2018

  duncanidaho11 wrote: »

  tomebe11 wrote: »

  I think this is a great idea. Importing your own assets could make a more extended universe within STO such as new races to become friends with or bitter enemies - the possibilities could be virtually endless.

  
  I think this fits in the same category of argument as "just give Foundry authors full dev tools." That's not what the Foundry is aiming to be and the endless possibilities for constructive use (assuming folks have STO quality 3D modeling experience) are directly counterbalanced by the doubly endless possibilities for misuse and abuse. Very few Foundry authors have that 3D experience and the prospect of pulling from 3D asset stores to populate Foundry missions with (as the much more accessible option for people) presents Cryptic with the nightmare scenario of trying to police a Foundry operating similar to Gary's Mod both for age appropriateness and EULA compliance (see. copyright infringement and licensing issues) to retain approval from CBS (if they would ever be okay with folks importing their own 3D assets for sanctioned use in an officially licensed game.) The Foundry is supported, by in large, from dev volunteer time and there likely isn't the personnel available to monitor incoming assets and enforce the TOU.
  
  Furthermore, Cryptic would also have to manage and store all this imported data. The server costs (potentially exceeding data storage for main game assets through the potential volume of submissions if the system was at all active) would likely never be compensated for by increased Foundry plays and the indirect effect that has on player retention and game satisfaction (if we assume a net positive benefit.) There's less radical alternatives for dev time that would have a much more direct impact on Foundry activity (ex. improving the search UI in the mission journal) and the ability of authors to make good missions (ex. fix bugs.)
  
  And right now it's a big push just to get key bugs fixed. Rebuilding the Foundry to effectively be a free modding tool just isn't a workable idea (I think.) Limitation is part of the format and it does help focus authors and promote creative problem solving (when the possibilities are endless, a lot more professional experience is required to manage the scope and intricacy of the project.)

  
  I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

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  thegreendragoon1 Member Posts: 1,872 Arc User

  September 2018

  tomebe11 wrote: »

  I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

  
  Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

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  spiritborn Member Posts: 4,263 Arc User

  September 2018

  thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

  tomebe11 wrote: »

  I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

  
  Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

  indeed every new asset in the foundry must be always avaible to all players so it must be stored fully in the Cryptic servers and there's also the matter that Cryptic can be held legally responsible for what assets are used in the foundry (hence the rules for what kind of custom costumes can be made).
  

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  tomebe11 Member Posts: 19 Arc User

  September 2018

  spiritborn wrote: »

  thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

  tomebe11 wrote: »

  I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

  
  Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

  indeed every new asset in the foundry must be always avaible to all players so it must be stored fully in the Cryptic servers and there's also the matter that Cryptic can be held legally responsible for what assets are used in the foundry (hence the rules for what kind of custom costumes can be made).

  
  Whilst it would have to be stored on the Cryptic servers I doubt that many people would use such a feature so the storage costs wouldn't be that much. As for the legal issues, the foundry terms of service and the EULA already make it clear that you can't replicate any assets that haven't already been created within the official story of the game. The legal issues regarding user imported assets can be overcome by stating that any asset uploaded will become the property of Cryptic Studios Inc.

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  spiritborn Member Posts: 4,263 Arc User

  September 2018

  tomebe11 wrote: »

  spiritborn wrote: »

  thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

  tomebe11 wrote: »

  I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

  
  Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

  indeed every new asset in the foundry must be always avaible to all players so it must be stored fully in the Cryptic servers and there's also the matter that Cryptic can be held legally responsible for what assets are used in the foundry (hence the rules for what kind of custom costumes can be made).

  
  Whilst it would have to be stored on the Cryptic servers I doubt that many people would use such a feature so the storage costs wouldn't be that much. As for the legal issues, the foundry terms of service and the EULA already make it clear that you can't replicate any assets that haven't already been created within the official story of the game. The legal issues regarding user imported assets can be overcome by stating that any asset uploaded will become the property of Cryptic Studios Inc.

  The problem remains that Cryptic cannot rely on the honor system here, just because you personally wouldn't use this for things that wouldn't violate the EULA it doesn't mean Cryptic can assume everyone will comply with the rules. So this system would need policing which is something Cryptic doesn't have the resources for at this moment. Also Cryptic had enough legal headaches with the "design the next Enterprise" fiasko.
  
  Also Cryptic cannot assume "so few people will use this system that storage won't be an issue", that would be bad business practice.
  

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  duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User

  September 2018 edited September 2018

  spiritborn wrote: »

  
  Also Cryptic cannot assume "so few people will use this system that storage won't be an issue", that would be bad business practice.

  
  Plus it's outside the principle of the Foundry (ie. use existing assets to tell stories in the STO universe) and a rebuild of such incredible scale (ie. an entirely new system to affecting a core technical area of the game. Ie. how it handles basic assets) that it's not a likely prospect on any timescale. I also don't see how this necessarily improves the Foundry (beyond increasing the level of technical complexity and requisite experience to exploit it.) Johnny Snowball for example has done some 3D modeling stuff IIRC but the limiting factor on his missions by no means is the complexity of his maps. We can do a lot with the Foundry in spite of and indeed because of the creative limitations of the system which channels focus, restricts potential dead-ends in development, and forces re-appraisals of overly complex ideas (simply beyond the editor) in favor of simpler solutions which tend to better service gameplay.
  
  The Foundry is what it is. If folks want to apply their 3D modeling experience to a video game, I would recommend looking into a modding community (ex. Star Trek Armada 3 team for Sins of a Solar Empire) or follow the example set by Attack Pattern Tuggs (ie. make your own thing.) STO simply isn't the place where such interest can be satisfied.

  Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.

  ---

  Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence

  ---

  Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!

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