User resource import/export.

stormcrow

With so many Foundry Mission creators going full on “Roddenberry” in STO I am curious as to why the Foundry does not have a user side import/export feature. There are many assets in the Foundry libraries, however there are limits to how “original” you can get.

There are oodles of graphic software engines out there that make landscape, 3D modeling, etc… so simple a caveman can do it. Now, it seems to me that landscape is rendered on “bump” maps and rendered in an engine such as “Bryce 7 (or older)”. I am quite familiar with Bryce… even made a 3D Red Square Moscow to challenge my to challenge myself to really learn the software. Most all of these “Model Files” are exported as .bmp, .tff, .jpg., as well as most other “familier extensions”.

As for “character models” Poser is very user friendly… then we segway into lightroom, Jaasc, Blender… even Gimp with the same “export/import file extensions”.

Being capable of “importing” models from Foundry would allow creators to mesh, alter, outfit, blah… blah… blah… to create unique and original content for Foundry missions and “Export” to their user library or, heaven forbid, a Foundry Workers Tool Shed. There is always the fine print, “By submitting X, X becomes the property of the Foundry and no rights, claims, complaints, whining, fussing, crying will be tolerated, have a nice day, thank you for being an awesome Foundry Drone.”

Yeah, I know, this will open an entirely new, economy sized, can of worms. That said, there is already a system in place to screen fresh worms for deliciousness… so let’s expound upon that:

Rating system: 1-5 stars. For what? Let’s get specific here, shall we?

Please Rate the Following:

Faction Theme: 1-5 stars. What level of “Faction” emersion did this mission achieve?
1 star: I have no idea why my faction was here, this was clearly none of our business.
5 star: Honor and glory for my faction, baby!!! Vini vidi vicci, our “factions” triumph will echo through eternity!

Story: 1-5 stars. Just how good was the story?
1 star: Good thing there were waypoints or I would have never made it through.
5 star: Holy smoke, that so “-- insert extreme emotional response--!” There better be a part 2 for this story!

Playability: 1-5 stars. How “user friendly” was the mission.
1 star: After several trips around the “planet/city” I couldn’t figure it out so I just beamed out and left the system.
5 star: Holy smoke!!! Who knew you could even do that in a mission?!?!?! I mean, I was clearly led around like I had a ring in my nose, but DANG that was smooth!
Space: 1-5 stars: The space scenery.
1 star: Well, there was a planet…
5 star: Okay, so I just flew around the system taking it all in… but who knew a nebula storm could blow up your ship?

Outdoor: 1-5 stars. The outdoor scenery.
1 star: I don’t really understand why so many people were just wandering around a desolate rock, but at least waypoints were there.
5 star: Okay, so it was rush hour in the biggest city I have ever seen…I am fairly certain there were C.H.U.D.S. under the sewer grates and I am pretty sure I was pickpocketed, because I had 300 lat in my pocket when I beamed in and had a thank you note when I beamed out.

Indoor: 1-5 stars: The indoor scenery.
1 star: So it took 15 minutes for the echo of my contacts voice to die down so we could move on.
5 star: Okay, so, in this mission, we had to bribe a contact… well, here’s the thing, as we were cutting through the mall I found the most amazing shoe store… I’ll have to come back to this quest once I’ve refined more dilithium.

Overall rating: Averaged from all f the above.

I understand that the game is inundated with curmudgeons, but there are plenty of earnest players and Foundry Workers to make this rating system viable.

Thoughts?

pendra37

These things are not in because the developer resource assigned to the foundry is a non paid intern and the time dedicated to development is every Friday between 4:45-5:00.

tomebe11

I think this is a great idea. Importing your own assets could make a more extended universe within STO such as new races to become friends with or bitter enemies - the possibilities could be virtually endless.

duncanidaho11

tomebe11 wrote: »

I think this is a great idea. Importing your own assets could make a more extended universe within STO such as new races to become friends with or bitter enemies - the possibilities could be virtually endless.

I think this fits in the same category of argument as "just give Foundry authors full dev tools." That's not what the Foundry is aiming to be and the endless possibilities for constructive use (assuming folks have STO quality 3D modeling experience) are directly counterbalanced by the doubly endless possibilities for misuse and abuse. Very few Foundry authors have that 3D experience and the prospect of pulling from 3D asset stores to populate Foundry missions with (as the much more accessible option for people) presents Cryptic with the nightmare scenario of trying to police a Foundry operating similar to Gary's Mod both for age appropriateness and EULA compliance (see. copyright infringement and licensing issues) to retain approval from CBS (if they would ever be okay with folks importing their own 3D assets for sanctioned use in an officially licensed game.) The Foundry is supported, by in large, from dev volunteer time and there likely isn't the personnel available to monitor incoming assets and enforce the TOU.

Furthermore, Cryptic would also have to manage and store all this imported data. The server costs (potentially exceeding data storage for main game assets through the potential volume of submissions if the system was at all active) would likely never be compensated for by increased Foundry plays and the indirect effect that has on player retention and game satisfaction (if we assume a net positive benefit.) There's less radical alternatives for dev time that would have a much more direct impact on Foundry activity (ex. improving the search UI in the mission journal) and the ability of authors to make good missions (ex. fix bugs.)

And right now it's a big push just to get key bugs fixed. Rebuilding the Foundry to effectively be a free modding tool just isn't a workable idea (I think.) Limitation is part of the format and it does help focus authors and promote creative problem solving (when the possibilities are endless, a lot more professional experience is required to manage the scope and intricacy of the project.)

castsbugc

And the likelihood of them opening any more ports then 100% needed for gameplay is so absurdly small...

tomebe11

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

tomebe11 wrote: »

I think this is a great idea. Importing your own assets could make a more extended universe within STO such as new races to become friends with or bitter enemies - the possibilities could be virtually endless.

I think this fits in the same category of argument as "just give Foundry authors full dev tools." That's not what the Foundry is aiming to be and the endless possibilities for constructive use (assuming folks have STO quality 3D modeling experience) are directly counterbalanced by the doubly endless possibilities for misuse and abuse. Very few Foundry authors have that 3D experience and the prospect of pulling from 3D asset stores to populate Foundry missions with (as the much more accessible option for people) presents Cryptic with the nightmare scenario of trying to police a Foundry operating similar to Gary's Mod both for age appropriateness and EULA compliance (see. copyright infringement and licensing issues) to retain approval from CBS (if they would ever be okay with folks importing their own 3D assets for sanctioned use in an officially licensed game.) The Foundry is supported, by in large, from dev volunteer time and there likely isn't the personnel available to monitor incoming assets and enforce the TOU.

Furthermore, Cryptic would also have to manage and store all this imported data. The server costs (potentially exceeding data storage for main game assets through the potential volume of submissions if the system was at all active) would likely never be compensated for by increased Foundry plays and the indirect effect that has on player retention and game satisfaction (if we assume a net positive benefit.) There's less radical alternatives for dev time that would have a much more direct impact on Foundry activity (ex. improving the search UI in the mission journal) and the ability of authors to make good missions (ex. fix bugs.)

And right now it's a big push just to get key bugs fixed. Rebuilding the Foundry to effectively be a free modding tool just isn't a workable idea (I think.) Limitation is part of the format and it does help focus authors and promote creative problem solving (when the possibilities are endless, a lot more professional experience is required to manage the scope and intricacy of the project.)

I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

thegreendragoon1

tomebe11 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

spiritborn

thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

tomebe11 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

indeed every new asset in the foundry must be always avaible to all players so it must be stored fully in the Cryptic servers and there's also the matter that Cryptic can be held legally responsible for what assets are used in the foundry (hence the rules for what kind of custom costumes can be made).

tomebe11

spiritborn wrote: »

thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

tomebe11 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

indeed every new asset in the foundry must be always avaible to all players so it must be stored fully in the Cryptic servers and there's also the matter that Cryptic can be held legally responsible for what assets are used in the foundry (hence the rules for what kind of custom costumes can be made).

Whilst it would have to be stored on the Cryptic servers I doubt that many people would use such a feature so the storage costs wouldn't be that much. As for the legal issues, the foundry terms of service and the EULA already make it clear that you can't replicate any assets that haven't already been created within the official story of the game. The legal issues regarding user imported assets can be overcome by stating that any asset uploaded will become the property of Cryptic Studios Inc.

spiritborn

tomebe11 wrote: »

spiritborn wrote: »

thegreendragoon1 wrote: »

tomebe11 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that we get full dev tools as this is too unrealistic. I myself have experience with 3D modelling, rigging and texturing so I know that it wouldnt be that hard to make new assets. Cryptic would not have to store much imported data, the only that i think it could be done is if the file is imported from the Star Trek Online folder in your directory, then a smaller compressed form would stay with Cryptic and like you said not many people would or could use that function leaving it open to the few who could and would (such as myself) to make missions with more asset variety

Unfortunately, this doesn't sidestep the issue that this imported content would have to be policed which Cryptic does not have the manpower to do. And while an individual 3D model and texture isn't big, 10,000 of them are. Simply put, Star Trek Online is an online game, which must operate with far more stringent restrictions than a single player game would. When we submit missions, we aren't just affecting the local installations of a few people who actively download a mod, we are affecting a living, shared server.

indeed every new asset in the foundry must be always avaible to all players so it must be stored fully in the Cryptic servers and there's also the matter that Cryptic can be held legally responsible for what assets are used in the foundry (hence the rules for what kind of custom costumes can be made).

Whilst it would have to be stored on the Cryptic servers I doubt that many people would use such a feature so the storage costs wouldn't be that much. As for the legal issues, the foundry terms of service and the EULA already make it clear that you can't replicate any assets that haven't already been created within the official story of the game. The legal issues regarding user imported assets can be overcome by stating that any asset uploaded will become the property of Cryptic Studios Inc.

The problem remains that Cryptic cannot rely on the honor system here, just because you personally wouldn't use this for things that wouldn't violate the EULA it doesn't mean Cryptic can assume everyone will comply with the rules. So this system would need policing which is something Cryptic doesn't have the resources for at this moment. Also Cryptic had enough legal headaches with the "design the next Enterprise" fiasko.

Also Cryptic cannot assume "so few people will use this system that storage won't be an issue", that would be bad business practice.

duncanidaho11

spiritborn wrote: »

Also Cryptic cannot assume "so few people will use this system that storage won't be an issue", that would be bad business practice.

Plus it's outside the principle of the Foundry (ie. use existing assets to tell stories in the STO universe) and a rebuild of such incredible scale (ie. an entirely new system to affecting a core technical area of the game. Ie. how it handles basic assets) that it's not a likely prospect on any timescale. I also don't see how this necessarily improves the Foundry (beyond increasing the level of technical complexity and requisite experience to exploit it.) Johnny Snowball for example has done some 3D modeling stuff IIRC but the limiting factor on his missions by no means is the complexity of his maps. We can do a lot with the Foundry in spite of and indeed because of the creative limitations of the system which channels focus, restricts potential dead-ends in development, and forces re-appraisals of overly complex ideas (simply beyond the editor) in favor of simpler solutions which tend to better service gameplay.

The Foundry is what it is. If folks want to apply their 3D modeling experience to a video game, I would recommend looking into a modding community (ex. Star Trek Armada 3 team for Sins of a Solar Empire) or follow the example set by Attack Pattern Tuggs (ie. make your own thing.) STO simply isn't the place where such interest can be satisfied.