I am running exotic/torpedo boats on lots of characters and the destructive capabilities are ridicilous. It takes some investment t get there, but that is true for other builds as well.
what are you using for your build? any specific rep sets like terran munition or the temporal stuff?
still wondering, which torps or setup works best with an exotic build^^
If you are in a ship with access to Con Firepower and you have the subspace warheads trait then the best torpedo for exotic builds is the Rom Hyper torpedo. It can either be run by itself or you can run the Gravimetric and PEP torps along side it.
Out of curiosity, why the HyperPlasma torp for exotic builds with that specific situation of Subspatial Warheads and Concentrate Firepower? HyperPlasma torp isn't buffed by EPG in any way (only the procs from PEP and Grav are). If you're concerned with warhead procs, I'd want something traveling fast and doing AoE damage to other targets for the warheads proc to spawn for each target hit by the kinetic blast. Something like EBM would be ideal with CF; chain-firing EBM HY1's and causing all sorts of subspace madness on the screen.
Now, if torpedo AoE procs ALSO trigger the warheads proc, then Gravimetric, PEP, Neutronic and Quantum Phase TSx + CF would be murder....
I am running exotic/torpedo boats on lots of characters and the destructive capabilities are ridicilous. It takes some investment t get there, but that is true for other builds as well.
what are you using for your build? any specific rep sets like terran munition or the temporal stuff?
still wondering, which torps or setup works best with an exotic build^^
If you are in a ship with access to Con Firepower and you have the subspace warheads trait then the best torpedo for exotic builds is the Rom Hyper torpedo. It can either be run by itself or you can run the Gravimetric and PEP torps along side it.
Out of curiosity, why the HyperPlasma torp for exotic builds with that specific situation of Subspatial Warheads and Concentrate Firepower? HyperPlasma torp isn't buffed by EPG in any way (only the procs from PEP and Grav are). If you're concerned with warhead procs, I'd want something traveling fast and doing AoE damage to other targets for the warheads proc to spawn for each target hit by the kinetic blast. Something like EBM would be ideal with CF; chain-firing EBM HY1's and causing all sorts of subspace madness on the screen.
Now, if torpedo AoE procs ALSO trigger the warheads proc, then Gravimetric, PEP, Neutronic and Quantum Phase TSx + CF would be murder....
Subspatial Warheads are boosted by EPG and the hyper torp creates 3 anomaly’s per High Yield so a single Con fire 3 can put out as many as 30 anomalies which track enemy targets. Ideally start with a spread 3, PEP/Grav and then use the hyper with Con Fire 3. This puts out a crazy amount of anomaly’s on screen at once.
EDIT: When I did the above I used to mix in Reverberation to disabled shields. Not tried the above in ViL, I assume it all still works the same. Focusing more on mines and pets right now due to all the new combos.
I play exclusively DoT builds on my science and engineer ships, I've specialized one of my layouts and ships to be all radiation damage which bypasses shields. The only time my torps don't hit multiple targets is when I don't use a skill to enhance that shot like Torp Spread. I also use the Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo because it creates a zone that slows multiple ships all at once.
I wouldn't worry about this, with their latest enhancements to the energy torps and skills that effect those types of torpedoes I would suggest switching unless your build uses plasma/radiation at the same time. It's a bit more difficult to effectively do that combo. My suggestion for if you want plasma with your radiation would be to use the rom consoles.
If you want pure radiation I see no issues with it.
I was just reading that torpedos got nerfed again recently where TS boff now only enhances the torps that hit the main target. So neutric torp and quantum phase now only effect one target... i mean why do the devs hate torpedos so much? And dont tell me about power creep this is just Torpedo hating. Im not bashing on the devs though they have a lot of work for the money they have to work with im appreciative of course but i seems that its getting harder and harder to make a torpedo boat good or even justify using one at all. There are some good torpedos but they are just place filler for energy management or they are just so so on a pure torpedo build. I think now this is only my peronal opinion but i think there should be a PEN mod on ALL torpedos even rep and mission rewards. You can reengineer to get it. That would help a lot. What do you torpedo users think?
I am running exotic/torpedo boats on lots of characters and the destructive capabilities are ridicilous. It takes some investment t get there, but that is true for other builds as well.
what are you using for your build? any specific rep sets like terran munition or the temporal stuff?
still wondering, which torps or setup works best with an exotic build^^
If you are in a ship with access to Con Firepower and you have the subspace warheads trait then the best torpedo for exotic builds is the Rom Hyper torpedo. It can either be run by itself or you can run the Gravimetric and PEP torps along side it.
Out of curiosity, why the HyperPlasma torp for exotic builds with that specific situation of Subspatial Warheads and Concentrate Firepower? HyperPlasma torp isn't buffed by EPG in any way (only the procs from PEP and Grav are). If you're concerned with warhead procs, I'd want something traveling fast and doing AoE damage to other targets for the warheads proc to spawn for each target hit by the kinetic blast. Something like EBM would be ideal with CF; chain-firing EBM HY1's and causing all sorts of subspace madness on the screen.
Now, if torpedo AoE procs ALSO trigger the warheads proc, then Gravimetric, PEP, Neutronic and Quantum Phase TSx + CF would be murder....
Subspatial Warheads are boosted by EPG and the hyper torp creates 3 anomaly’s per High Yield so a single Con fire 3 can put out as many as 30 anomalies which track enemy targets. Ideally start with a spread 3, PEP/Grav and then use the hyper with Con Fire 3. This puts out a crazy amount of anomaly’s on screen at once.
EDIT: When I did the above I used to mix in Reverberation to disabled shields. Not tried the above in ViL, I assume it all still works the same. Focusing more on mines and pets right now due to all the new combos.
Help me see this out, because I am not seeing what you are describing.
Subspatial Warheads require the torp to hit the target(s) in order to proc the warhead. The basic firing mode for the HyperPlasma would allow for another 3 torps (iirc) to fire behind that, and you can fire a single torp after (or in-between). The HyperPlasma takes some time to travel and impact the targets, so no warhead procs are generated until the torps hit. Assuming that the target isn't dead from you (or others) obliterating it, how long does it take you to build up warhead procs?
I got to admit it does irk me that about the only torpedoes of worth are exotic/special/energy torpedoes, and just seems like a cop-out using those as reasons that torpedoes are fine. Would we be saying the same thing if only special/exotic/rep energy weapons were actually doing good?
I got to admit it does irk me that about the only torpedoes of worth are exotic/special/energy torpedoes, and just seems like a cop-out using those as reasons that torpedoes are fine. Would we be saying the same thing if only special/exotic/rep energy weapons were actually doing good?
Bingo. Not to mention changing a set bonuses to not boost torps, or not fixing traits that were advertised to work with torps, or further binding torp performance to energy weapons (Cold Hearted is a nice trait, but requires a lot of energy weapons to stack quickly), or trait and gear development for energy weapons that doesn't require hoop jumping to make them work right....
I am running exotic/torpedo boats on lots of characters and the destructive capabilities are ridicilous. It takes some investment t get there, but that is true for other builds as well.
what are you using for your build? any specific rep sets like terran munition or the temporal stuff?
still wondering, which torps or setup works best with an exotic build^^
If you are in a ship with access to Con Firepower and you have the subspace warheads trait then the best torpedo for exotic builds is the Rom Hyper torpedo. It can either be run by itself or you can run the Gravimetric and PEP torps along side it.
Out of curiosity, why the HyperPlasma torp for exotic builds with that specific situation of Subspatial Warheads and Concentrate Firepower? HyperPlasma torp isn't buffed by EPG in any way (only the procs from PEP and Grav are). If you're concerned with warhead procs, I'd want something traveling fast and doing AoE damage to other targets for the warheads proc to spawn for each target hit by the kinetic blast. Something like EBM would be ideal with CF; chain-firing EBM HY1's and causing all sorts of subspace madness on the screen.
Now, if torpedo AoE procs ALSO trigger the warheads proc, then Gravimetric, PEP, Neutronic and Quantum Phase TSx + CF would be murder....
Subspatial Warheads are boosted by EPG and the hyper torp creates 3 anomaly’s per High Yield so a single Con fire 3 can put out as many as 30 anomalies which track enemy targets. Ideally start with a spread 3, PEP/Grav and then use the hyper with Con Fire 3. This puts out a crazy amount of anomaly’s on screen at once.
EDIT: When I did the above I used to mix in Reverberation to disabled shields. Not tried the above in ViL, I assume it all still works the same. Focusing more on mines and pets right now due to all the new combos.
Help me see this out, because I am not seeing what you are describing.
Subspatial Warheads require the torp to hit the target(s) in order to proc the warhead. The basic firing mode for the HyperPlasma would allow for another 3 torps (iirc) to fire behind that, and you can fire a single torp after (or in-between). The HyperPlasma takes some time to travel and impact the targets, so no warhead procs are generated until the torps hit. Assuming that the target isn't dead from you (or others) obliterating it, how long does it take you to build up warhead procs?
While the speed can be a problem it’s nowhere near as bad as it used to be. Its plasma so with the patch that boosted base speed increase of destructible torpedoes stacked with plasma torpedo speed boost along with the speed trait it is not that bad now. Plus I tend to have a fast traveling torpedoes to trigger confirepower and most EPG builds use Temporal Operative so combined with the plasma speed boost rom set your destructible torpedoes get extra defence, temp hitpoints and with Master of the mines a further +33 resistance. Which really helps stopping them getting shot down.
If the target dies before the heavy torpedoes hit they retarget and accelerate faster than normal flight speed to the next nearby target. If you are running something like CE or the swarm you are going to hit something.
A possible misunderstanding might be Subspatial Warheads isn’t a different torpedo warhead. You don’t hit with a torpedo which then procs and shoots a Subspatial Warhead. When your normal High Yield volly hits the anomaly appears on the target right away. Thats why I use it on most of my confire power builds even the ones without EPG. With most torpedos each High Yield volley creates 1 anomaly on hit while the hyper creates 3 anomaly’s.
This needs double checking but I believe Subspatial Warheads also works on a drain build as drain boosts the anomaly engine power drain.
EDIT: Subspatial Warheads with con firepower works really well with Neutronic, quantum phase and Delphic Torpedo.
I got to admit it does irk me that about the only torpedoes of worth are exotic/special/energy torpedoes, and just seems like a cop-out using those as reasons that torpedoes are fine. Would we be saying the same thing if only special/exotic/rep energy weapons were actually doing good?
That's pretty much the problem with torpedoes. Take a torpedo with a special ability, or stick to energy weapons.
Figuring out how to rebalance torpedoes so that the standard torpedoes are as effective as energy weapons, but the special ability torpedoes don't become OP, is arguably a hard problem. But nevertheless one that the devs will have to adress eventually IMO.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I got to admit it does irk me that about the only torpedoes of worth are exotic/special/energy torpedoes, and just seems like a cop-out using those as reasons that torpedoes are fine. Would we be saying the same thing if only special/exotic/rep energy weapons were actually doing good?
That's pretty much the problem with torpedoes. Take a torpedo with a special ability, or stick to energy weapons.
Figuring out how to rebalance torpedoes so that the standard torpedoes are as effective as energy weapons, but the special ability torpedoes don't become OP, is arguably a hard problem. But nevertheless one that the devs will have to adress eventually IMO.
Here's the kicker, though... what's the drawback to using energy weapons? We know what the drawbacks are to using kinetics/torpedoes.
Out of the 380 people now above 100K DPS in ISA, 7 are using torpedoes as their primary damage source (either as pure kinetic or Sci-torp) and 12 are using Science abilities as their primary damage source. The rest are energy builds. That's just the recorded runs in SCM. Go above 200K, and you see 1 Sci and the rest energy. Above 300K, and it's all energy. Look at HSE, and you see the same thing.
When you start looking at builds as a whole, you start to see the pure energy builds at the top (cannons for those who have the skill and resources to get the most out of them, arrays/dbb's for the rest due to ease of use), pure energy builds throughout all difficulty and performance levels, and a mix of canon (as seen on TV) builds from the lower to mid-level, Science, torps and mines floating from the bottom of the performance scale to the upper levels (but with far fewer people in the higher performance brackets percentage-wise).
Arrays are much easier to use, and with the plethora of gear, traits, set bonuses, and mechanics, as well as having no drawback when dealing with enemy shields or hull, one wonders why there are so many "all array" builds out there.....
You kidding. Since I got that new mirror universe phaser torpedo, I flatly wreck stuff with torps. Plus the quantum torp from sunrise has been a hammer as well. Plus some of the plasma torps are amazing too.
Torps are just fine. Just need the right ones.
In other words the only decent torpedo is the type of torpedo that is practically a energy weapon...which you'd do more damage with just placing another energy weapon in the slot?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
You kidding. Since I got that new mirror universe phaser torpedo, I flatly wreck stuff with torps. Plus the quantum torp from sunrise has been a hammer as well. Plus some of the plasma torps are amazing too.
Torps are just fine. Just need the right ones.
In other words the only decent torpedo is the type of torpedo that is practically a energy weapon...which you'd do more damage with just placing another energy weapon in the slot?
You kidding. Since I got that new mirror universe phaser torpedo, I flatly wreck stuff with torps. Plus the quantum torp from sunrise has been a hammer as well. Plus some of the plasma torps are amazing too.
Torps are just fine. Just need the right ones.
In other words the only decent torpedo is the type of torpedo that is practically a energy weapon...which you'd do more damage with just placing another energy weapon in the slot?
I don't think that the energy torpedoes are always the best option. And on a science vessel that focuses on aux power, you don't want actual energy weaons either.
I have made very good experience with other speciality torpedoes. Gravitymetric, Quantum Phase, Neutronic, Plasma-Emission. But I always use these o ships with science-heavy builds that don't want to bother with boosting weapon power.
On non Science Builds, a thing to consider is that abilities like Torpedo Spread and High Yield Torpedo can add a ton of damage to torpedoes. And you can combine them with a Cannon Scatter Volley or beam Fire At Will for your energy weapons.
I think regular torpedoes are generally still to weak. But a Quantum Phase Torpedo boosted by Torpedo Spread is basically like a Quantum Torpedo Torpedo Spread coupled with a Charged Particle Burst centered n your primary target (instead of yourself, which is far less useful.) A Gravimetric Torpedo Spread is like spawning multiple tiny subspace vortex/gravity wells _and_ a phon torpedo spread.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
Out of curiosity, why the HyperPlasma torp for exotic builds with that specific situation of Subspatial Warheads and Concentrate Firepower? HyperPlasma torp isn't buffed by EPG in any way (only the procs from PEP and Grav are). If you're concerned with warhead procs, I'd want something traveling fast and doing AoE damage to other targets for the warheads proc to spawn for each target hit by the kinetic blast. Something like EBM would be ideal with CF; chain-firing EBM HY1's and causing all sorts of subspace madness on the screen.
Now, if torpedo AoE procs ALSO trigger the warheads proc, then Gravimetric, PEP, Neutronic and Quantum Phase TSx + CF would be murder....
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
EDIT: When I did the above I used to mix in Reverberation to disabled shields. Not tried the above in ViL, I assume it all still works the same. Focusing more on mines and pets right now due to all the new combos.
I wouldn't worry about this, with their latest enhancements to the energy torps and skills that effect those types of torpedoes I would suggest switching unless your build uses plasma/radiation at the same time. It's a bit more difficult to effectively do that combo. My suggestion for if you want plasma with your radiation would be to use the rom consoles.
If you want pure radiation I see no issues with it.
Help me see this out, because I am not seeing what you are describing.
Subspatial Warheads require the torp to hit the target(s) in order to proc the warhead. The basic firing mode for the HyperPlasma would allow for another 3 torps (iirc) to fire behind that, and you can fire a single torp after (or in-between). The HyperPlasma takes some time to travel and impact the targets, so no warhead procs are generated until the torps hit. Assuming that the target isn't dead from you (or others) obliterating it, how long does it take you to build up warhead procs?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Bingo. Not to mention changing a set bonuses to not boost torps, or not fixing traits that were advertised to work with torps, or further binding torp performance to energy weapons (Cold Hearted is a nice trait, but requires a lot of energy weapons to stack quickly), or trait and gear development for energy weapons that doesn't require hoop jumping to make them work right....
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
If the target dies before the heavy torpedoes hit they retarget and accelerate faster than normal flight speed to the next nearby target. If you are running something like CE or the swarm you are going to hit something.
A possible misunderstanding might be Subspatial Warheads isn’t a different torpedo warhead. You don’t hit with a torpedo which then procs and shoots a Subspatial Warhead. When your normal High Yield volly hits the anomaly appears on the target right away. Thats why I use it on most of my confire power builds even the ones without EPG. With most torpedos each High Yield volley creates 1 anomaly on hit while the hyper creates 3 anomaly’s.
This needs double checking but I believe Subspatial Warheads also works on a drain build as drain boosts the anomaly engine power drain.
EDIT: Subspatial Warheads with con firepower works really well with Neutronic, quantum phase and Delphic Torpedo.
That's pretty much the problem with torpedoes. Take a torpedo with a special ability, or stick to energy weapons.
Figuring out how to rebalance torpedoes so that the standard torpedoes are as effective as energy weapons, but the special ability torpedoes don't become OP, is arguably a hard problem. But nevertheless one that the devs will have to adress eventually IMO.
Here's the kicker, though... what's the drawback to using energy weapons? We know what the drawbacks are to using kinetics/torpedoes.
Out of the 380 people now above 100K DPS in ISA, 7 are using torpedoes as their primary damage source (either as pure kinetic or Sci-torp) and 12 are using Science abilities as their primary damage source. The rest are energy builds. That's just the recorded runs in SCM. Go above 200K, and you see 1 Sci and the rest energy. Above 300K, and it's all energy. Look at HSE, and you see the same thing.
When you start looking at builds as a whole, you start to see the pure energy builds at the top (cannons for those who have the skill and resources to get the most out of them, arrays/dbb's for the rest due to ease of use), pure energy builds throughout all difficulty and performance levels, and a mix of canon (as seen on TV) builds from the lower to mid-level, Science, torps and mines floating from the bottom of the performance scale to the upper levels (but with far fewer people in the higher performance brackets percentage-wise).
Arrays are much easier to use, and with the plethora of gear, traits, set bonuses, and mechanics, as well as having no drawback when dealing with enemy shields or hull, one wonders why there are so many "all array" builds out there.....
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
In other words the only decent torpedo is the type of torpedo that is practically a energy weapon...which you'd do more damage with just placing another energy weapon in the slot?
Bingo.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
You wouldn't happen to have links to their builds (if they posted them), would you?
I don't think that the energy torpedoes are always the best option. And on a science vessel that focuses on aux power, you don't want actual energy weaons either.
I have made very good experience with other speciality torpedoes. Gravitymetric, Quantum Phase, Neutronic, Plasma-Emission. But I always use these o ships with science-heavy builds that don't want to bother with boosting weapon power.
On non Science Builds, a thing to consider is that abilities like Torpedo Spread and High Yield Torpedo can add a ton of damage to torpedoes. And you can combine them with a Cannon Scatter Volley or beam Fire At Will for your energy weapons.
I think regular torpedoes are generally still to weak. But a Quantum Phase Torpedo boosted by Torpedo Spread is basically like a Quantum Torpedo Torpedo Spread coupled with a Charged Particle Burst centered n your primary target (instead of yourself, which is far less useful.) A Gravimetric Torpedo Spread is like spawning multiple tiny subspace vortex/gravity wells _and_ a phon torpedo spread.
Best thing to do is install SCM and look at the tables, and then do a search for the username's either on r/stobuilds or the builds academy.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.