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Suggestions for a Dominion progression
davidwford
Member Posts: 1,836 Arc User
I am rather disappointed at the progression from Dominion characters. While I understand the limitation of the Jem'Hadar and the idea that heroic Dominion Characters should start out advanced, beginning at level 60 is too high. At one time, KDF players were started at Commander (level 20 or so) before the full progression starting at Lt. level 1 was restored. I propose that Dominion players should be started at that level(Second/level 20) but referred to as "Third". There is precedent for this as both Remata'Klan and Talak'Talan were thrids, but in command of their own units.
The Dominion should start out at level 20, but referred to as Third under Dukan'Rex. The character runs through the Dominion prison camp as is already the case, but at that lower level. On completion, the player gets the first Jem'Hadar BOFFs, the ones whom pledge their loyalty at the end of the simulation. After that, the player is assigned to Vorta Eraun's unit. It is then sent to capture the USS Rapier which has been spotted violating Dominion space. In the engagement, the Second is killed, while the First beams over with Eraun leaving the player in command of the Teir 3 Bug ship. While the Rapier enters the Wormhole, the player reports to Weyoun, leading to the player's promotion to command of the unit and command of the ship. At that point, we quickly run through "Ceremony" from the original Dominion Tutorial.
From there, Weyoun sends the player to investigate Vandros IV to investigate the reactivation of Iconian technology to include the space gateway (opening up the Delta Quadrant). Some more Gamma Quadrant missions could involve the Argathi, Dosi, Ennis, Hunters(of the Tosk), Karemma, Paradans, Rakhari, Skrreea, Teplans, Wadi, and Yaderans. All of this can occur before pick a faction much like the initial Romulan Tutorial missions. Add to that, Dominion Internment Camp 371 can act as the Dominion exclusive social hub. These missions would be great for adding those Gamma Quadrant species as Dominion faction BOFFs.
From there, Odo sends the character to Weyoun to play out the Cardassian Struggle missions from a Dominion perspective, particularly the missions "Facility 4028" and "Boldly They Rode". "Operation Gamma's" ending could be the player characters' ship that responds to Farek's salvaging and lead into "Facility 4028". The prisoner that the Warden sends the player to speak to could be Eraun's number 7 clone held since his capture on the Rapier. After "Boldly they Rode" is when the player picks which faction to ally with.
Somewhere along the line, whether before or after the Cardassian Struggle arc, Odo should send the Dominion player to Nimbus to "restore some semblance of order". Odo or his surrogate being the contact for "Spectres" arc as well as the "Cloaked Intentions" Romulan featured story arc. Immediately after "Darkness before Dawn", the New Romulus missions should become active. Around this time, the Breen Arc should become active, preparing the player for the Borg invasion of Deferia. From there, the Borg Invasion Arc, then the Dyson Sphere arc followed by Delta Quadrant and then the Iconian War, Future Proof, and New Horizons before returning to the Gamma Quadrant Hurq storyline.
My second post with add the suggestion for lower tier ships.
The Dominion should start out at level 20, but referred to as Third under Dukan'Rex. The character runs through the Dominion prison camp as is already the case, but at that lower level. On completion, the player gets the first Jem'Hadar BOFFs, the ones whom pledge their loyalty at the end of the simulation. After that, the player is assigned to Vorta Eraun's unit. It is then sent to capture the USS Rapier which has been spotted violating Dominion space. In the engagement, the Second is killed, while the First beams over with Eraun leaving the player in command of the Teir 3 Bug ship. While the Rapier enters the Wormhole, the player reports to Weyoun, leading to the player's promotion to command of the unit and command of the ship. At that point, we quickly run through "Ceremony" from the original Dominion Tutorial.
From there, Weyoun sends the player to investigate Vandros IV to investigate the reactivation of Iconian technology to include the space gateway (opening up the Delta Quadrant). Some more Gamma Quadrant missions could involve the Argathi, Dosi, Ennis, Hunters(of the Tosk), Karemma, Paradans, Rakhari, Skrreea, Teplans, Wadi, and Yaderans. All of this can occur before pick a faction much like the initial Romulan Tutorial missions. Add to that, Dominion Internment Camp 371 can act as the Dominion exclusive social hub. These missions would be great for adding those Gamma Quadrant species as Dominion faction BOFFs.
From there, Odo sends the character to Weyoun to play out the Cardassian Struggle missions from a Dominion perspective, particularly the missions "Facility 4028" and "Boldly They Rode". "Operation Gamma's" ending could be the player characters' ship that responds to Farek's salvaging and lead into "Facility 4028". The prisoner that the Warden sends the player to speak to could be Eraun's number 7 clone held since his capture on the Rapier. After "Boldly they Rode" is when the player picks which faction to ally with.
Somewhere along the line, whether before or after the Cardassian Struggle arc, Odo should send the Dominion player to Nimbus to "restore some semblance of order". Odo or his surrogate being the contact for "Spectres" arc as well as the "Cloaked Intentions" Romulan featured story arc. Immediately after "Darkness before Dawn", the New Romulus missions should become active. Around this time, the Breen Arc should become active, preparing the player for the Borg invasion of Deferia. From there, the Borg Invasion Arc, then the Dyson Sphere arc followed by Delta Quadrant and then the Iconian War, Future Proof, and New Horizons before returning to the Gamma Quadrant Hurq storyline.
My second post with add the suggestion for lower tier ships.
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First ship Tier progression proposal:
Starting ship: T2 Attack/Bug ship and Jem'Hadar Fighter
Choose one at promotion to Second: T3 Light Battlecruiser OR T3 Vanguard Raider
Choose One at Promotion to First: T4 Heavy Escort(Carrier, but without hangars, much like the Ar'kif) OR T4 Jem'Hadar Battlecrusier (Dreadnaught skin but no hangars)
Chooser One at Promotion to Master First: T5-U Attack/Bug ship OR T5-U Heavy Escort Carrier OR T5-U Dreadnaught Carrier.
Second Ship Tier progression proposal:
Starting Ship: T3 Attack/Bug ship and Jem'Hadar Fighter
Chooser one at Promotion to First: T4 Heavy Escort OR T4 Vanguard Raider OR T4 Jem'Hadar Battlecrusier (Dreadnaught or Light, preferably light)
Chooser one at Promotion to Master First: T5-U Attack/Bug ship OR T5-U Escort Carrier OR T5-U Dreadnaught Carrier.
T2 Bugship:
BOFF: LTCDR Tac, Ens Tac, LT Eng, LT Sci
Consoles: 2 Tac, 1 Eng, 1 Sci
Starting Equipment: Mark 4 Dominion Polaron Beam (Fore, Aft), Mark 4 Dominion Polaron Dual Cannon(Fore), Mark 4 Quantum Torps CrtH CrtD (Fore), Polaron Phase (Tac, Purple), Zero Point Energy (Tac, Purple). Plasma Distribution Manifold (Eng, purple), Field Generator (Sci, Purple), Jem'Hadar Space Set.
T3 Bugship:
BOFF: LTCDR Tac, LT Tac, LT Eng, LT Sct
Consoles: 2 Tac, 2 Eng, 1 Sci
Starting Equip: Mark 6 Dominon Polaron Beam (Fore, Aft), Mark 6 Dominion Dual Cannon (Fore), Mark 4 Quantum Torps Acc CrtH CrtD (Fore, Aft), Polaron Phase (Tac, Purple), Zero Point Energy(Tac, Purple), Plasma Distribution Manifold (Eng, Purple), EPS Flow Regulator (Eng, Purple), Shield Generator(Sci, Purple), Jem'Hadar Space Set.
T3 Light Battlecrusier:
BOFF: LTCDR Eng, LT Tac, LT Sci, Ens Universal
Consoles: 2 Tac, 2 Eng, 1 Sci
T3 Vanguard Raider:
BOFF: LTCDR Tac, LT Universal, Lt Universal, Ens Universal
Consoles: 2 Tac, 1 Eng, 2 Sci
T4 Heavy Escort:
BOFF: CDR Tac, LTCDR Uni, LT Eng, Ens Sci
Consoles: 3 Tac, 2 Eng, 2 Sci
T4 Jem'Hadar Battlecrusier
BOFF: CDR Eng, LT Eng, LT Sci, Ens Universal
Consoles: 2 Tac, 3 Eng, 2 Sci
Shield Mod: 1
Impulse Mod: 0.15
Inertia: 50
Turn Rate: 8.5
T4 Light Battlecrusier
BOFF: CDR Eng, LT Tac, LT Sci, LT Universal
Consoles: 2Tac, 3 Eng, 2 Sci
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I just wish they keep this smart trend in the future. ViL feels like a success.
The purpose of Jem'hadar toons is to be a hero class of sorts like the Death Knights are/were in World of Warcraft. The Jem'hadar toons start at level 60 and still have to go through the new episodes we have currently before they are allowed to enter the old content. Once they enter the old content they have 8 years worth of stuff at once they can partake in. Even once you get to where you can run the older content I don't think you're realizing just how much there is to do for these new Jem'hadar toons. Once you get them out of the new stuff, you still need to setup and gear out your final ship, or further refine the bug if you plan to stick to the bug they give you. Assuming you're going to gear that toon out as much as possible you still need to get a gear set and upgrade your shields, engines, deflector, and warp core. You need to get your weapons lined out, farm out any mission sets you'll need, plus build up reputations, gather marks and such to construct any reputation gear, farm out a set of Vulnerability Locators, farm out dilithium and flip to keys to get lobi consoles, etc. There's alot to do for a new toon if you want to push them to the max.
With that said I think I need to ask the question that most other folks are going to want to know. Aside from just you personally wanting it to change, what other logical reasons do you have for wanting it to change? Assuming they did listen to your suggestion and change the progression, what logical reasons would you use to persuade them?
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
So we should make ALL new characters of factions start at level 60 huh? Why not remove level progression all together? Yes there are goo things, but there can also be more. The Dominion faction should have more than just one species as playable. The Argathi, Dosi, Ennis, Hunters(of the Tosk), Karemma, Paradans, Rakhari, Skrreea, Wadi, and Yaderans were all seen on screen as species and cultures under the subjugation of the Dominion. They SHOULD be Dominion faction playable characters.
From one standpoint, while it is nice to have reputations starting out at level 5, the sad fact is that the players are actually WORSE off due to the fact that grinding those reputations produces some high level gear for equipping our characters beyond the starting equipment. Take Nukara reputation for example. Grinding that often gives purple quality environmental suits. Yes, we can still get them from completing the reputation projects, but why do so when that extra Reputation exp simply goes to waste? I like that the daily reputation projects have their cooldown times removed for Dominion characters. This allows them to be ran multiple times a day greatly reducing the investment of time and energy. Giving players the reputation marks rather than starting at level 5 would be much better.
As far as the level progression itself, the players can gather quite an amount of gear for trashing for energy credits or salvage for equipment upgrades. Yes one can spend time trash collecting, but having that as part of a level progression breaks up the monotony. Then you have the fact that players get to test drive some of the end level ships at lower tiers enticing them to buy them later on. This is useful down the road as far as Admiralty ships. Having some Dominion Admiral ship cards that have shorter cooldowns of less than 12 hours without spending dilithium to buy allied factions ships would greatly benefit player characters. And, starting out at level 20 or 25 already puts them level advanced over Fed, KDF, and Romulan characters which still fits into the "genetically enhanced" argument.`
At it's simplest, player choices and decisions need to be meaningful. In this case, meaningful means that players must make tradeoffs. Balance does not mean every weapon, faction, ship, or mechanic of the game needs to be equally represented. It means that the shortcomings of some choices are offset (to a certain extent) by benefits. A player cannot nor should not expect to have everything like some huge buffet where they can pick and choose what they want. The game has to force constraints.
Secondly, canon is important - the whole point is that the majority of us want to play "Star Trek" - but, it not necessarily the beginning and end to game mechanics. The majority of story arcs invent elements wholesale. And the reality is that if canon were truly the basis for all game mechanics, FEDs would only use phasers and not have access to disruptors (the current dps king) and we wouldn't be able to transwarp (insta-travel) anywhere.
So, where am I going with this: progression.
Not every character or every faction needs or should follow the same development progression. It does not invalidate the existing system to introduce a different option. By creating character near end-game, a player makes certain tradeoffs whose mechanics I applaud (even if the specific pros and cons are not exactly to my liking). What is "grind" for one player is a break in monotony for another. While one player may feel worse off from losing out on equipment obtained by grinding a reputation, another is grateful to get the traits without having to grind for them - but beneath all of that is that you have a choice to start one of these new characters or not (yes, I know one could argue that you don't have a choice if you want a Jem character, but having the Jem character is a choice).
Stepping back, a player has several interesting choices to access the new content. I applaud the experiment of starting an endgame character, especially after painfully playing through the ENTIRE story multiple times (not to mention multiple mission replays to get certain gear) for the recent rerun of Delta recruitment. In the future, I hope they offer a similar option (tweaked by consideration of feedback from this attempt). After going from a nice manageable four characters to a not manageable seven after Delta and Gamma, it would be exhausting to roll a new character from the beginning - again.
For one, players that come new to the game but are experienced with MMOs can try out the new content that is being advertised right now. They get more modern level design, maybe a tie-in with current movies etc. (not unlike what Cryptic does right now by letting people play new missions as "featured missions").
How would you react to a game where people tell you "oh you should see this new mission/battlezone" and then to find out "well, you have to play 50 more levels before you ca do that"?
For the other, Cryptic will keep adding content. Once the level cap reaches 70 or 80, Jem'hadar will feel like a totally normal progression, which front-loads newer content, then lets you go back to the older missions.
And finally, Jem'hadar are a great way for players who want to take their raid group from another game to STO. People who maybe work and don't have time to play a full, new MMO, but who will add value to the game for other players (maybe their friends, maybe PUGs), by getting right into endgame.
It is not a mistake by Cryptic that Jem'hadar start at a high level. It's not that Cryptic don't have the money to build another faction like the Romulans or 23rd century Fed. Those already exist. Jem'hadar perform a completely different function in the game.
-- Uli
That being said, I realize that this is greatly influenced by my own play-style and preferences. The progression is a great incentive and motivator for me. So I'm good if there's an option to start with a lvl 60 toon and understand that a lot of other players might be looking for that option.
So hey, if that's the worst that happened with this XP then we're good to go!
Then provide an actual coherent argument with logic and reason. Just saying "you are wrong" and nothing else is simply an emotional outburst. Everytime I refute "playable Borg Faction" I use logical arguments such as "Drones are mindless automatons only the queen has free will".
Thank you. That is a debate worth having. The short answer is regards to the tutorial skipping. For those who want to skip the whole playthrough, there should be an option when you first gain control of the Dominon character to talk to Dukan'Rex and automatically jump to endgame stats.
I also agree with you on the whole point about playing Trek while still retaining flexibility. That is why most of the storyline stuff starting with the Iconian War (particularly the Temporal War and time shifting TRIBBLE) irks me. It is less Trek and more flashy cheese without substance. Rather than fix almost all of the content to level 50+, they should be opening it to level 10+. Why should I not be able to take on the Romulans or the Borg BEFORE completing the Klingon War stories? Why can't I run Deferi/Breen arc before going to Nimbus to restore order? With level matching, there is no excuse for fixing every mission to endgame levels.
As for the character progression, some folks may not be satisfied with how the three career paths skill sets are automatically assigned. It is a fair trade off to grind through a leveling progression for that customization WITHOUT having to spend zen right out the gate to change the skill setup. I want to play a Dominon character, not a shoehorned carbon cutout/cookie cutter character.
For grinding reputations, the Delta and Temporal Officer recruitments gave players the ability to collect reputation marks as they leveled up. Why can't Dominion only content do the same? By running say a mission at Vandros IV once a day would give both Dyson and Iconian 100 reputations marks each. WIth the removed time limit for daily reputation projects, those can easily be completed within one week of two hour daily play time.
There is plenty of material to flesh out a Dominion full faction. I listed several Gamma Quadrant species they could easily write storyline missions around exclusively for Dominion much like how Feds, Klingons, and Romulans all have low level storyline missions that are exclusive to them. Hell, the Klingons when the game first started in 2010 had far less than Dominion, which is why VIL is NOT a full expansion the way Legacy of Romulus was.
Some extra thoughts I did not add above was with regards to Bridge officers and Duty officers. Grinding up through the levels allows for earning Faction specific BOFFs such as more Jem'Hadar rather than ally loaned Bridge officers. Same goes for Duty officer cadre. Go up through the ranks nets the players many of those, even for Romulans. The endgame start means Dominon players have NONE of that. The only way to get another Jem'Hadar bridge officer right now is via "Facility 4028", and not only is it Tactical only, it is not even a Dominion bridge officer, but a loaned one from the ally faction.
I didn't say a lack of lore, I said a lack of content. It's one thing to say that stories could be made, it's another to divert resources away from the rest of the game in order to make them. If a large enough group of players is interested in the Dominion faction, they might think about making Dominion-exclusive missions, but starting with a full leveling experience would have been a huge gamble. There's a reason why the factions we have barely exist, and that's because making episodes that every player can play, and ships that every captain can fly, is an easier expense to justify.
Anyway, my point was that they already put in the work to think through a potential Dominion leveling experience, the only question is if enough people would play it to justify putting in the work to make it. And low-level content has probably the worst return on investment, even before you deal with exclusivity.
I will say though, I find that I feel less.. connected.. to my Jem'Hadar character then any of my other characters. While there are certain obvious advantages to starting out level 60 and having a good portion of the work done for you, I do kind of miss the progression and the feeling that I am picking my characters path. While some things like the pre-filled reputations and specializations were obviously great, other things like the skill tree, ship layout, etc are WAY different then how I like to do things. There was a lot of stuff that I had to re-do in order to make it more the way I like.
Overall, I like the idea to start them at 60 and I get why they did it. I have 1 character slot remaining though and honestly.. if I ever do decide to fill that spot with an 8th character, I will more then likely start at level 1 instead of making another Jem'Hadar. I just feel that one is enough for me.
I admit, having him start at 60 makes him feel generic to me. He doesn't feel like one of my characters more like someone elses character that was given to me. Sounds strange, I know.. because it is. Nonetheless, it's true... starting at 60 wasn't as great as I thought it would be.
As I pointed out, the KDF started out with NOTHING initially. Just PvP and those "Welcoming the (Federation, Romulans, Cardassians, Borg)" missions, that's it. The PvE missions came slowly, and it was pulling teeth to get them to give access to both the Romulan and Cardassian arcs which they removed much of anyhow. With the release of the Romulans, which would have LESS character options than the Dominion SHOULD have and yet they gave it a full progression there which was more than the Klingon Empire had at start.
IF there was a concern about taking away resources from other areas, then they should not have committed to releasing another faction. While I understand it can be and is a work in progress, the goal should be to have a faction fully on part with the Romulans at a minimum within a year of release. To do anything less, or leave it half finished is a great disservice to both the game and to the players, "expense" bedamned.
And that is a very fair point, and I acknowledge that. The Devs have said one thing, they done another, and delivered a third undesired situation quite often. My argument is that if they were not going to do another full progression like the Romulans, then they had no business making yet another to being with. Hell, the TOS is simply a secondary Fed tutorial with the same progression, just a few new options.
And starting out at level 20(Commander/Subcommander/Second) is doing exactly that. The fact that daily reputation projects get nearly instant completion already gives those players a head start. If the Dominion exclusive missions give large packages of reputation marks as the reward, even during replay, then it makes that evermore easier. Hell, the very first tutorial mission could give one of each reputation sponsorship tokens to speed things up even more. Again, if they plan things correctly, they could make initial Dominion exclusive missions give enough exp to put the character 80% of the way to the next level, with subsequent replay of those missions giving 40-50% of the exp for the next level. It is not hard to think of workarounds within the existing system.
While I don't agree with starting at 60, most of your other points are precisely what I am talking about as far as my complaints. No customization makes it fell like it is not your character and makes it less likely to create another one. While I am okay with SOME pre-fill on the skills, which reputations to start with should be up to me. Same with the specialization choices.
Again, a partial character progression would allow us as players to acquire Duty and Bridge officers WHEN they add Dominion species and Dominion Faction versions of those.