I'd say that they purposely made you 'do the actions' to give you a more intimate understanding of the horrors Neth Parr was forced to partake in, those little snippets of innocents begging for their lives were precisely to shock you the way they shocked Neth Parr. She didn't want to hold the genocide ball either.
In GTA I shot down police officers to get away with a crime. I've played games that made me an assassin and murdered for money. You're not supposed to be afraid of feeling bad about the things you're doing, that's the artistry of it.. the feelings that are invoked are part of the experience, they're meant to be felt, but if you let it stop you from enjoying what they do to the story it's an error on your part, not on the game.
Maybe I just don't understand how you can distance yourself from the character you're playing, enough so that you can feel bad about commiting genocide, but can't distance yourself from the fact that you're playing a game, and not actually doing anything horrible at all.
I never said it was bad game design, only that I personally did not like it. I do understand the ideas behind it and have seen my share of fair usage. I know what the designers were going for, namely the things you mentioned.
However I think it is a stretch to only put the moral issues at the receiving end. There are different ways this can be handled, and both players and games may land at different places on the sliding scale. There are games out there which simulate TRIBBLE children - is it my fault that I don't want to play them because it is "just a game"? Granted, this issue is removed from that, but how far removed? In the end, dealing in absolutes here isn't the way to go. You can use devices like this to further the understanding of a cause or you can use them just for the lulz. Players can be more or less sensitive, and this can differ on the issues. And we are all inconsistent on what we do - I neither played GTA, nor Assassins Creed, but I played enough games, and made decisions in such games, which I could and/or should regret given my stance on this issue - and even sometimes do, but not always.
About the last question: I think it is less me distancing myself from my toon and more not being able to distance me from the actions by Neth Parr. And as it stands, this does not feel to me like educating me about the inner issues of Neth Parr in the intended way (I feel them allright, I don't like it just like she didn't. But for me here it transcends the story and as such the intention)
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Maybe I just don't understand how you can distance yourself from the character you're playing, enough so that you can feel bad about commiting genocide, but can't distance yourself from the fact that you're playing a game, and not actually doing anything horrible at all.
Immersing yourself in the presentation of a story is not analogous to distancing yourself from that presentation. They're polar opposites. Neth Parr is giving you an account of her experiences with the direct implication that this is what happened to the universe your character co-inhabits. They're not parables. So if you're invested in your character the default state is to react to her story from that perspective (which very pointedly bookends the mission. We don't begin the mission in Neth's flash back and assume it as our entire view of the STO universe from that point on.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
At the end, when you are encountering the Atosee...I think you dropped the ball on that last bit of dialogue. How much stronger would that have been for the story if the last bit from the Prime Minister accompanied the launch of that torpedo.
Great story telling missed in the effort to rush something out.
I just wanted to state again I enjoyed the episode. After the umpteenth time I didn't enjoy it as much but it was bad neither. I like the way the mission flowed & the storytelling element was very present in it. It helped me consider what a character like Neth Parr's thoughts would be in those situations. Also, I didn't have any technical issues with the mission all the times I reran it so a bonus to it's functionality too. The part I liked the least was the ground melee weapon being changed into that Federation fork.
I really liked the chance to see a mission I had already completed from the opposition's point of view. I wouldn't mind a little more backstory on 'why' the admiral is so terrified/callous as to destroy entire civilizations to hunt these creatures, but I have a feeling that is coming.
Fun and enjoyable mission that made me physically ill for having been a part of a mass genocide. No joke. I think the mission does a fantastic job of forcing the player to grasp the horror of their actions. Job well done.
What happened to those unique forum ranks I paid for?
Controller setup for PS4 version was awful, skipping the square, triangle and circle buttons completely in space and not allowing any sort of rebind for ground.
The chatter popups covered most of the screen and kept appearing over the top of hails which have the camera set too low so it crops the top of every head.
Ground still lacks anything interesting when you know that their armour carries a mortar and at least two drone options for every single one you meet apart from the playable option. Even more of a joke when a scrawny primitive can fling a spear further than any of your hi tech options.
And your away team still hang around doing nothing.
It looks as if they've never corrected the issue with the Weekly Bonus availability. It does not reset after the Thursday start of the new week, but rather after seven days since you last ran it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Wasn't noticeable on PC due to abilities don't have autotrigger but after doing each run of this so far on PS$ I've found that my boff and ship abilities all get their settings changed.
It's now sunday evening and the weekly reward box still hasn't turned up. So far I've only had the one from the tuesday that episode arrived so it is very much overdue thanks to the broken system now in place.
Just put the weekly reward as a reset when the new rewards arrive as it used to be and stop poking things. You always break them and rarely improve anything as a result.
The story arc overall is excellent. This adds some really great depth to the story. I am in no way shape or form trashing the creative or design process. That said, I really disliked playing through this mission. Not because it was bad. I did not like committing genocide. It was unpleasant to play. Each part of the mission felt this way. As such, the whole mission became a chore. This will be one I avoid playing in the future. The mission was just too heartrending, even though its just a game, for me to enjoy. P.S. I would really like to see more exploration and diplomatic elements in the game.
The episode was great except for one GLARING ISSUE. The autofire system should not be forced. If a player is NOT using autofire and has it disabled, then they can not fire any weapons in space during the episode. Please for the love of Q, STOP FORCING AUTOFIRE on future episodes. Having to go into your settings to make changes just to play an episode is kind of a stupid thing.
Comments
I never said it was bad game design, only that I personally did not like it. I do understand the ideas behind it and have seen my share of fair usage. I know what the designers were going for, namely the things you mentioned.
However I think it is a stretch to only put the moral issues at the receiving end. There are different ways this can be handled, and both players and games may land at different places on the sliding scale. There are games out there which simulate TRIBBLE children - is it my fault that I don't want to play them because it is "just a game"? Granted, this issue is removed from that, but how far removed? In the end, dealing in absolutes here isn't the way to go. You can use devices like this to further the understanding of a cause or you can use them just for the lulz. Players can be more or less sensitive, and this can differ on the issues. And we are all inconsistent on what we do - I neither played GTA, nor Assassins Creed, but I played enough games, and made decisions in such games, which I could and/or should regret given my stance on this issue - and even sometimes do, but not always.
About the last question: I think it is less me distancing myself from my toon and more not being able to distance me from the actions by Neth Parr. And as it stands, this does not feel to me like educating me about the inner issues of Neth Parr in the intended way (I feel them allright, I don't like it just like she didn't. But for me here it transcends the story and as such the intention)
Immersing yourself in the presentation of a story is not analogous to distancing yourself from that presentation. They're polar opposites. Neth Parr is giving you an account of her experiences with the direct implication that this is what happened to the universe your character co-inhabits. They're not parables. So if you're invested in your character the default state is to react to her story from that perspective (which very pointedly bookends the mission. We don't begin the mission in Neth's flash back and assume it as our entire view of the STO universe from that point on.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Great story telling missed in the effort to rush something out.
Eve
The chatter popups covered most of the screen and kept appearing over the top of hails which have the camera set too low so it crops the top of every head.
Ground still lacks anything interesting when you know that their armour carries a mortar and at least two drone options for every single one you meet apart from the playable option. Even more of a joke when a scrawny primitive can fling a spear further than any of your hi tech options.
And your away team still hang around doing nothing.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It's now sunday evening and the weekly reward box still hasn't turned up. So far I've only had the one from the tuesday that episode arrived so it is very much overdue thanks to the broken system now in place.
Just put the weekly reward as a reset when the new rewards arrive as it used to be and stop poking things. You always break them and rarely improve anything as a result.