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Anyone else letdown by the new expansion?

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  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    nimbull wrote: »
    I was trying not to think of the mathy details but that is ugly. Those phoenix upgrade packs just became a LOT more useful compared to crafted upgrade kits to help sooth that.

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Phoenix_Universal_Tech_Upgrade

    If I remember right it's 40,000 DIL for a pack of 20 which gets you at least 20 upgrade tokens though usually it's more depending on what tokens are inside. 1 upgrade = 52,000 tech points at a cost of 1000 DIL (from the initial purchase of crates). So for 20 you get at least 1,040,000 tech points for a total cost of 40,000 DIL. The amount of tech points can only go up assuming you get more higher quality tokens to trade.



    Yeah, I'm *really* hoping they're doing a Phoenix event before that. And then hopefully followed by an Upgrade Weekend.

    I'm hording dilithium after donating to a few fleet projects. This is going to have an interesting impact on fleet donations I'm guessing.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • ironmakoironmako Member Posts: 770 Arc User
    New content + thousands of man-hours = whining plyers. This simple equation has been the absolute for STO an other MMO's for years.

    I read the blog of the devs watching every eposide of DS9 several times over just to get the new remoddleing as good as it can be. Players have been wishing for te Jem'Hadar and the Cardassians to become playable races for years, and now this has come true.

    Personally, I would like to doff my cap and give huge respect and appreciation for the devs and their efforts. TNG and DS9 are the Treks that I grew up with in my early-mid teen years, and I was super excited to hear the work that they are doing to DS9 and the DS9 universe.

    So the upshot is the same as it always has been, if you don't like it, the uninstall and play something else, and leave the game to those who can actually appreciate the new content.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    I don't think it's a let-down, but I do agree that mk XV is something they could have avoided to add. And scale the content to the actual numbers.

    Also the preorder Starter Pack sounds interesting. But I ain't in a haste to get it. Perhaps I'd snatch it after seeing some stats, since it looks great - and it supports the game.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    you know everytime we get a new expansion. we get one these thread and everytime I end up with the same thought, your getting the expansion you deserve.

    as it stands the literal worst case scenario is. you spead a couple hours rushing though the new stuff to see if it's has any new shinies your intersted in, go meh when it turns out it does not, then go back to whatever it is you do normally.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • starcruiser#3423 starcruiser Member Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    IMO I don't care about the new ranking nor the gear upgrade MK XV. I don't expect things to be stagnant since a good healthy MMO does change and brings up development to its playerbase from time to time. I spend good money in space barbies and like most also spend time/resources on weapons, consoles and the like. However, I don't expect them to remain the same. After all this game is not the same as it was when it launched.
    However, in terms of content 7 missions does not constitute an expansion. The baseline nowadays is so low as shown by AOY content and 14.5 that I guess I should not be surprised. I will still support Cryptic since anything is better than none IMO.​​
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,310 Community Moderator
    Isn't "par" Mk XII? :confused:
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  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    Can't wait.

    Playable Jem'Hadar has been on my wishlist as far back as when STO released years ago.
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,263 Arc User
    Isn't "par" Mk XII? :confused:
    I'm not high end DPSer but I think most stuff at this point is balanced to be doable with Mark 12 (I'm dyslexic so roman numerals can confuse me) rare items with minimal effort.

    I've certain not felt that I absolutely need to have anything better then that, though obviously I try to get my gear to as good as they can be but I don't worry about too much either.

    So I'd say mark 12 is par and anything above that is bonus (or above par if you will).
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I kinda like the whiners about the XV upgrade.... this amuses me...

    Of course it does.
    the only content that is even difficult with purple XII is elite queues, Terran BZ, and Tzen BZ(and no one uses that anymore). So all I hear is 'WAAAA MY EPEEN ISNT MAXXED AND .1% OF THE GAME IS SLIGHTLY DIFFICULT!!!!'

    There we go again with the "You don't need max gear!" mantra. Thing just is, I *had* max gear; and now, come June, everything will be subpar. I called that a 'financial disaster.' People scoffed. But let's do some rudimentary math, shall we?! A very quick look revealed that I have around 300 Epic items. Upgrading a single wep, from Mk XIV to Mk XV, will cost 320,000 Upgrade XP. Since not every step for every bit of gear will cost the full amount, let's average it out at half: 160,000 Upgrade XP per item. !60,000 x 300 = a whopping 48,000,000 Upgrade XP required to get everything (already at Epic) to Mk XV. 48,000,000 / 12,500 = 3,840 Superior Upgrades needed to make this happen. So, at 200k a pop, that's roughly 768,000,000 EC, and and 3,840,000 Dilithium. So, maybe your pockets are deeper than mine, but I still call that a 'financial disaster.'

    Naturally, I will not need to upgrade everything at once; but to fully recover from this blow, making all my ships' gear up to speed again, will cost nothing short of a real fortune.

    You have 300 Epics, I have like maybe 5.

    That alone pretty much disqualifies you from making judgments about how others experience the new Upgrade cost.

    Or, put differently, is it possible for you to grasp that others, who *do* have a lot more Epic gear than you, might dreead the Upgrade cost more than you?!
    I've played all the content and enjoyed it all just the same as you have. Your obsession with having massive amounts of maxed everything is your problem and yours alone.

    It's not an obsession, it's the game's goal even: to make progress, gear or otherwise. In fact, that's what prompted thew Mark increase: so ppl have something to work towards again. And me?! I like playing different ships, with different weps, different loadouts, different ideas. And this new Mark thingy will put a serious dent in that, that's for certain. And that, for me, makes the new expansion a let-down.

    I probably will enjoy the new DS9 station.
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,263 Arc User
    Oh just to remind people "expansion" isn't just one patch cycle, everything from start of AoY until start of ViL would be that expansion. So ViL may launch with seven missions but it doesn't mean those 7 missions are all we're gonna get.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Isn't "par" Mk XII? :confused:


    'Par' is always a confusing term. My dad plays Golf. So, there, subpar actually means 'better'! :P As to whether Mk XII is 'par', I dunno. It would depend on what most ppl are using. And I don't have those numbers, of course. But to quickly add what others have said on the matter, at this point, I think Cryptic should start dropping at least Mk XIII (and/or make that the default rep gear standard).
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,263 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Isn't "par" Mk XII? :confused:


    'Par' is always a confusing term. My dad plays Golf. So, there, subpar actually means 'better'! :P As to whether Mk XII is 'par', I dunno. It would depend on what most ppl are using. And I don't have those numbers, of course. But to quickly add what others have said on the matter, at this point, I think Cryptic should start dropping at least Mk XIII (and/or make that the default rep gear standard).
    "par" means essentially same as "average" , in golf your performance is judged by how many swings it takes for you get the ball into the hole fewer the swings the better hence "subpar" has the opposite meaning the normal. "sub" really just means "below something" so essentially "subpar" means "below the average level".

    For STO the best way to judge what is par is to look at what is given in missions and how most PvE queues are balanced.
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Oh just to remind people "expansion" isn't just one patch cycle, everything from start of AoY until start of ViL would be that expansion. So ViL may launch with seven missions but it doesn't mean those 7 missions are all we're gonna get.

    Technically speaking, an expansion can be anything from launch of the expansion until the next big patch day which is usually a season.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Isn't "par" Mk XII? :confused:


    'Par' is always a confusing term. My dad plays Golf. So, there, subpar actually means 'better'! :P As to whether Mk XII is 'par', I dunno. It would depend on what most ppl are using. And I don't have those numbers, of course. But to quickly add what others have said on the matter, at this point, I think Cryptic should start dropping at least Mk XIII (and/or make that the default rep gear standard).

    Subpar actually means below average gear. So if we're talking about Mk XII being par for most content, subpar would be anything below that.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I kinda like the whiners about the XV upgrade.... this amuses me...

    Of course it does.
    the only content that is even difficult with purple XII is elite queues, Terran BZ, and Tzen BZ(and no one uses that anymore). So all I hear is 'WAAAA MY EPEEN ISNT MAXXED AND .1% OF THE GAME IS SLIGHTLY DIFFICULT!!!!'

    There we go again with the "You don't need max gear!" mantra. Thing just is, I *had* max gear; and now, come June, everything will be subpar. I called that a 'financial disaster.' People scoffed. But let's do some rudimentary math, shall we?! A very quick look revealed that I have around 300 Epic items. Upgrading a single wep, from Mk XIV to Mk XV, will cost 320,000 Upgrade XP. Since not every step for every bit of gear will cost the full amount, let's average it out at half: 160,000 Upgrade XP per item. !60,000 x 300 = a whopping 48,000,000 Upgrade XP required to get everything (already at Epic) to Mk XV. 48,000,000 / 12,500 = 3,840 Superior Upgrades needed to make this happen. So, at 200k a pop, that's roughly 768,000,000 EC, and and 3,840,000 Dilithium. So, maybe your pockets are deeper than mine, but I still call that a 'financial disaster.'

    Naturally, I will not need to upgrade everything at once; but to fully recover from this blow, making all my ships' gear up to speed again, will cost nothing short of a real fortune.

    You have 300 Epics, I have like maybe 5.

    That alone pretty much disqualifies you from making judgments about how others experience the new Upgrade cost.

    Or, put differently, is it possible for you to grasp that others, who *do* have a lot more Epic gear than you, might dreead the Upgrade cost more than you?!
    I've played all the content and enjoyed it all just the same as you have. Your obsession with having massive amounts of maxed everything is your problem and yours alone.

    It's not an obsession, it's the game's goal even: to make progress, gear or otherwise. In fact, that's what prompted thew Mark increase: so ppl have something to work towards again. And me?! I like playing different ships, with different weps, different loadouts, different ideas. And this new Mark thingy will put a serious dent in that, that's for certain. And that, for me, makes the new expansion a let-down.

    I probably will enjoy the new DS9 station.

    You couldn't possibly miss the point harder if you tried.

    You DON'T NEED 300 freaking Epic items, you don't need Mark XIV even, you CHOOSE to have those things and to spend the time and money to get them. That is all on you. Just because a thing exists that is possible to acquire, doesn't mean you need it.

    You couldn't possibly make a greater strawman, even if you tried. Because no one, not even me, has ever claimed you *need* all gear at Epic.

    What I have said, though, is that for ppl who *did* make almost every piece worth having Epic at Mk XIV, the cost of getting all at end-level again will be astronomical. And that, as such, this expansion is a major devaluation of everything you have (As there's a level increase, making NPC's harder, thus your weps relatively weaker, and a Mark increase, this making your existing weps relatively weaker too. This isn't higher math or anything.)
    Your complaint is as nonsensical as screaming at Wal*Mart that their store has too much stuff in it and you can't afford to buy one of every item to complete your list of having one of each item. Hell, it's worse than that, you actually BOUGHT one of each item and now are furious they got new stuff because now you have to buy one of each of those items too! You're screaming that it's an outrage, while everyone else is looking at you like you're crazy.

    Hyperbole much?! LOL. In fact, I've been very mild in my observations about this. I said I find the cost, for me, too prohibitive, and that perhaps, come this summer, I may spend my money elsewhere.
    You're so deep in your delusion you actually think your obsessive quest is "the game's goal", it is NOT. The goal of the game is to play it and enjoy it, no more and no less.

    And here's what's really going to bake your noodle, later on: to some ppl, obtaining a wide variety of endgame gear and ships *is* the fun! Or did you thinking running ISA, for the one-zillionth time, with no further goal whatsoever, is fun!? My point is... it actually *could* be for some ppl. But my fun isn't wrong, simply because you do it differently.
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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    That alone pretty much disqualifies you from making judgments about how others experience the new Upgrade cost.

    Or, put differently, is it possible for you to grasp that others, who *do* have a lot more Epic gear than you, might dreead the Upgrade cost more than you?!

    But that makes no sense, that's essentially saying that you dread that tomorrow you'll wake up a day older, which is a fact of life. Just like raising tiers/levels of gear is a fact of life in almost all MMORPG-s, especially ones built like STO is.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    shpoks wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    That alone pretty much disqualifies you from making judgments about how others experience the new Upgrade cost.

    Or, put differently, is it possible for you to grasp that others, who *do* have a lot more Epic gear than you, might dreead the Upgrade cost more than you?!

    But that makes no sense, that's essentially saying that you dread that tomorrow you'll wake up a day older, which is a fact of life. Just like raising tiers/levels of gear is a fact of life in almost all MMORPG-s, especially ones built like STO is.


    Well, who says I don't dread waking up each day, realizing I'm yet a day older!? :P
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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    As someone else mentioned the new expansion will drop, people will power through the content, then go back to running ISA/CCA and Red Alerts, as the new content won't have the sustainability or activity to justify other than upgrading for upgrade sake to have the "best" gear to continue playing. Just like the competitive queues once enough marks for any new rep is obtained we will have dead queues again.

    So upgrading all my golds isn't a major concern.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    Nah, not let down. I expected it to be something pretty much like the AoY expansion.

    To be honest this one is looking to be slightly superior, since all AoY offered was a Fed toon with a few more exclusive missions and a boatload of c-store ships, half of them for lower levels.
    Previously Alendiak
    Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
    Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    As someone else mentioned the new expansion will drop, people will power through the content, then go back to running ISA/CCA and Red Alerts, as the new content won't have the sustainability or activity to justify other than upgrading for upgrade sake to have the "best" gear to continue playing.


    It will actually be interesting to watch how playable the new Lv increase will be without new/upgraded gear. When I went from 50 to 60, doing only the missions -- mind you, not queues -- on Elite, I start feeling the pinch at around lv 56, where NPC's were getting significantly tougher. This will only be a 5 lv increase; still, I expect an increase in NPC difficulty too. Whether it will be too much to handle, without upgrading, we'll see. I can always drop to 'Normal', of course (but get less XP, naturally).
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    Isn't "par" Mk XII? :confused:

    If it's not, then the game has rewarded everyone subpar gear since introducing mk14 gear back at the launch of delta grinding.

    And if that is the case then shame on the devs, because they've spent the past few years putting out missions that can be breezed through using sub par gear.

    With the new gear cap being mk15 then they face the choice of either upping the reward level or continuing the theme of sod it lets make it a dil sink. One is being nice to the playerbase and the other is closer to a middle finger as that would indicate that the level increase for players has little to no meaning.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    As someone else mentioned the new expansion will drop, people will power through the content, then go back to running ISA/CCA and Red Alerts, as the new content won't have the sustainability or activity to justify other than upgrading for upgrade sake to have the "best" gear to continue playing.


    It will actually be interesting to watch how playable the new Lv increase will be without new/upgraded gear. When I went from 50 to 60, doing only the missions -- mind you, not queues -- on Elite, I start feeling the pinch at around lv 56, where NPC's were getting significantly tougher. This will only be a 5 lv increase; still, I expect an increase in NPC difficulty too. Whether it will be too much to handle, without upgrading, we'll see. I can always drop to 'Normal', of course (but get less XP, naturally).

    I don't think they will repeat the mistakes of Delta Rising with bloated NPC hitpoints and ridiculously unbalanced XP scales between levels with this expansion. So the Level increase and Mk increase doesn't concern me until i see the numbers. But then it is Cryptic we are talking about so who knows ?


    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • starcruiser#3423 starcruiser Member Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    This thread is being derailed...

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ...It's not an obsession, it's the game's goal even: to make progress, gear or otherwise. In fact, that's what prompted thew Mark increase: so ppl have something to work towards again...

    Fairly certain the goal is to have fun. If upgrading your (IMO ludicrous amount of) epic gear to max level is no longer enjoyable for you, then don't do it anymore.


    And that's exactly what I'm considering. :)
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    As someone else mentioned the new expansion will drop, people will power through the content, then go back to running ISA/CCA and Red Alerts, as the new content won't have the sustainability or activity to justify other than upgrading for upgrade sake to have the "best" gear to continue playing.


    It will actually be interesting to watch how playable the new Lv increase will be without new/upgraded gear. When I went from 50 to 60, doing only the missions -- mind you, not queues -- on Elite, I start feeling the pinch at around lv 56, where NPC's were getting significantly tougher. This will only be a 5 lv increase; still, I expect an increase in NPC difficulty too. Whether it will be too much to handle, without upgrading, we'll see. I can always drop to 'Normal', of course (but get less XP, naturally).

    I don't think they will repeat the mistakes of Delta Rising with bloated NPC hitpoints and ridiculously unbalanced XP scales between levels with this expansion.


    I'm a little less optimistic. Without a significant increase in NPC difficulty/hitpoints, I don't think Cryptic will assume enough incentive for peeps to upgrade again. But we'll see it first, like you say.
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  • ironmakoironmako Member Posts: 770 Arc User
    I love it when players complain about having to max out their gear all the time, as I never really see the point. For a laugh, I have one toon which deliberatly has a T5U ship with all MkIV VR Pulse phaser turrets and a single bog standard photon torp slotted fore and aft. I did this to see if Turrets are adquate for PvE and I can assure you, it is. All this DPS and EPIC Maxing seems pretty pointless to me.

    If you have spent Hundreds and lots of hours getting your ship maxed out, then well done. Now tell me how your maxed out ship and the time and vast amount of money spent has enriched your life? I spent little time and no pennies on my turret toon and i have lots of fun with him.

    As for the topic being derailed, it hasn't, not yet anyways. The topic is "will the expansio be a letdown", IMO any new content is welcome.

    Appreciate the things you get, don't complain about the things you haven't.
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