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Cones of Conduct - Why are we on the wrong side?
tigeraries
Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
Been bugging me since this was added a year or so back... why are we helping the wrong side in this fight?
Is it just cause the gingerbread folks are "cute" that we help them? That they can talk? Just listen to their plea for help and you know they are the bad guys.
The gingerbread folks are a bunch of illegal swatters who are invaders. we should be helping the snowmen defend their home and territory instead of helping solidify a wrong.
Is it just cause the gingerbread folks are "cute" that we help them? That they can talk? Just listen to their plea for help and you know they are the bad guys.
The gingerbread folks are a bunch of illegal swatters who are invaders. we should be helping the snowmen defend their home and territory instead of helping solidify a wrong.
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no, cause the gingerbread are the "good" race therefore just like with kobali we have to side with them. no matter what they do.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
that was never Q's thing though... in fact I can't think of once, Q may have done immoral things but he never tried to force other people to do them, the only time he come close was trying to get janeway to help him make little q. which in his mind was a good thing.
granted we are dealing little q not daddy Q but I can't image the apple falling that far from the tree.
remember Qs archetype is a trickster god not the devil. which is why picard was annoyed when he showed up not wetting himself in terror.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
2016: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1225985/why-are-we-defending-the-gingerbread-village
2015: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/comment/12808143
2013: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/comment/11588427
"However, the claim 'I was only following orders' has been used to justify too many tragedies in our history. Starfleet doesn't want officers who will blindly follow orders without analyzing the situation. Your actions were appropriate for the circumstances. And I have noted that in your record. " - Picard to Data, regarding the latter's disregard of orders from "the brass"
Helping the Kobali isn't exactly going to fit here though. While we as an individual may find their method of 'reproduction' disgusting, to them it's perfectly normal. Just as we can't understand their way of life, they can't understand ours. To leave a body unused in the ground is wasteful to them.
The only real moral dilemma is whether they have permission to go Dr. Reanimator on the corpses in question. If they have been explicitly forbidden from resurrecting a person's corpse, do they have the right to do it? On the other hand, if absolutely no one in the galaxy permits it, they're doomed to extinction. A bit of a moral quandary there. Would actually have been a really cool story/arc to explore.
I would've figured coming up with a way to fix their reproductive systems should have been possible, given the numerous genetic miracles we see performed by the Federation and allied races. The Kobali themselves somehow make a mutagenic virus which effectively turns any humanoid into a Kobali. With that kind of technology, you'd think they could just repair their genetic code and reproduce normally again.
[SPOILERS AHEAD FOR DELTA RISING]
I'm here for the ship and the goodies, not the politics.
Nevermind the Wonderland is just a crazy theme park made by Q. Always funny to see some people insert politics even into a glorified shooting gallery.
It's been discussed each year. First, these are figments of Q's imagination. He makes the rules and that's what we have to live by. Second, what basis do the Snowmen have for the claim to that land? Third, Snowmen attacked the original Gingerbread Village first in the Winter Invasion queue, so let's not pretend that they are innocent in all of this.
From my perspective, nobody was using that chunk of land before Q opened it up. I never saw a Snowman come from that area prior to it being opened up for the village setting.
The Kobali may have initially lied to us by omission, and were definitely morally murky about letting stasis pods fail when they could have fixed them, but they come around by the end when confronted about it. That's a lot better than the Vaadwaur ever did. Why didn't the Vaadwaur retrieve their people and start a new settlement after being revived? That would have kept the Kobali off of the planet in the first place, but they were too busy scouring Underspace looking for weapons for vengeance to revive the rest of their people to rebuild. We saw right away with them that, at least under Gaul's leadership, there was not going to be any negotiating in good faith, much less any recognition of their own wrongdoing.
<shrug>
I'm just there to lull them into a false sense of security.
Did you know gingerbread cookies are a tasty treat? They go great with a tall glass of milk; I got glasses of milk with their names on 'em. Just dunk 'em in and start munching away. Best to start with the extremities.
This is almost certainly the ultimate truth of the matter. The entire wonderland and everything in it besides the players only exists because Q willed it. This isn't some planet we landed on, the gingerbread people aren't a peaceful but stupid race encroaching on the sovereign territory of an aggressive but justified race of snow beings. It's all one big farce, just like the ape-men in old British colonial military uniforms who bayonette'd Wesley, just like the Robin Hood setting, just like the whole 21st century courtroom.
Then again, the encounter Q orchestrated with the Borg was very much not a farce. Granted he was trying to teach humans a lesson with that, whereas the Winter event is portrayed as more of a misguided gift and has no apparent lesson to teach, but it's still worth mentioning.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Please don't bring 'Entitlement' into this!! Lol.
Rewards are fine, people are just impatient.
Yeah, this should be placed with the forbidden F.C.T.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1159287/frequently-created-threads-f-c-t
It's a pain in the neck that they take advantage of new naive players led in this topic year after year.
I wondered about the morality of helping supposed invaders and illegal squatters in this situation too but there's a point I think we've all over looked. Anyone can claim territory (whether it's actually theirs or not) with the Tzenkethi being a good example of that in recent episodes. The Tzenkethi claimed independent systems that they had no right to for the purpose of committing genocide, I think we have a similar situation with these Snowmen.
The Snowmen invading the Gingerbread settlement are very similar to the Borg snowmen in Tides of Ice and to the Snowmen that regularly attack the players in Snowball Fight. Presumably these Snowmen have a racial Snow Superiority complex that encourages to believe that any location with snow is theirs by right - to heck with anyone else. Which isn't too far off from how the Borg themselves behave to be honest. Therefore we can assume that the Gingerbread Village isn't actually an invasive or illegal settlement but merely that the Borg Snowmen are using illegality as an excuse since they believe all snow is theirs by right.
However, even if the peaceful Gingerbread Village was fully illegal in the context that many Americans might be familiar with, we are still left with the problem of the Snowmen invaders. Do the Gingerbread People deserve to be killed for living on that location? We can negotiate for a safe move to a new legal location or for the purchase of land rights for where they are now etc. but we cannot allow them to be executed.
We most certainly can allow them to be executed. That's the beauty of having free will. Making the choice that what happens in Gingerbread Village, is not necessarily our concern, not our business. Hopping in, to negotiate, or ensure the villagers aren't exterminated, sounds like something that the Federation just loves to do. Intrude. Come to think about it....Do the gingerbread villagers have warp travel technology? No? Then why are you breaking the Prime Directive, if you're blueside?
Anyone can claim territory. Might makes right, in that if you can hold and defend it on your own, then it's yours. If you enter another person's territory, and squat, then be prepared to defend your invasion through force. If you're too weak to hold it, then you have no claim to it.
With regards to the 2nd paragraph, it appears you're trying to justify assumptions and presumptions, so that you have an excuse to come to the aid of the Gingerbread Village. The Borg Snowmen =/= the Snowmen found on the lake and around the surrounding area, same with the ones in the village =/= the Borg Snowmen. Not saying that it's right or wrong to do that. Just that it's happened.
Me? I would've ashed both races, and taken the village and territory as mine, or put both races to the lash after conquering the land and holding for myself. Have them separated, and in sweet factory sweatshops so that I can sell the candy to people. Or pass it out to kids.