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Dilithium Refinment Suggestion.

I know this is going to come up that there are numerous threads asking for an increase in the refinement cap but I am not sure if this has ever been brought up as a possible solution.

Add a new scalable DOFF mission to refine dilithium.

Scalable DOFF missions are currently being done with the Special Projects - example Omega Sliver - where you can create 5 Omega Slivers and the duration of the mission increases for each one refined.

I am suggesting a simliar mission for Dilithium as an example:
Mission has a general 24hr cool down
For each 2000 dilithium refined, the mission time increases by 24hr.

This means refining an additional 8000 dilithium would take 96 hrs (4 days) and you would need to wait 24hrs before you can redo the mission.

Please remember this is really only a suggestion. :D

Comments

  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 683 Arc User
    While I don't think that the 8K dil refining limit is sacrosanct or anything, any changes which would actually make a meaningful difference to a wide enough group of players would throw the entire system into turmoil for a long time. There are a number of considerations:

    1. All currencies are linked. Dil, Zen, and EC and each can be converted into the others through the various markets and exchanges. Changes to one impact all the others - it's a system.

    2. The player population is not homogenous. The population of players who actually look like the statistically "average player" is probably pretty small. Changes will have wildly differing impact and value to different player population profiles. Players on both extreme ends of the spectrum will benefit to the disadvantage of those more toward the middle. In order to impact a sufficiently large group of players, a change would have to be virtually game-breaking - otherwise why bother to go through the turmoil of making changes if the actually number of players who benefit is small.

    3. Given the connection between in-game currencies and real world dollars, changes to the Dil market actually have an economic cost to Cryptic. If the Phoenix Box (a huge way to drain dil from the system - albeit very popular for players) were purely a game mechanic, it would be more regular and predictable. Simplified Accounting 101 (very, very simplified) - sale of Zen creates both an asset (revenue) and a liability for Cryptic until it's spent. If it sits on the books, the liability just sits there - like a gift card for a store - there is a reason why unused air miles, gift cards, and such have expiration dates. Draining unused Zen reduces the liability on the books. Unlike most sales, it doesn't "cost" anything to sell a ship or any other game "asset" - there are effectively no costs like there would be if a store sold a widget. The amount of Dil in the entire system has an impact on the rate at which zen and more importantly unused zen are spent. So, making changes to the dil refinement is actually not "free" for Cryptic and will cost them money on the books if not actual cashflow.

    Someone somewhere (or someone else should be fired) probably did a calculation to estimate the impact of giving lifetime subscriptions an extra 1000 dil refinement every two days vs. the subscription payment (which has an immediate cashflow impact, but would be recognized as revenue on the accounting books over a longer period of time) - how many lifetime subs are there, how much zen could it add it to the system (and how much does it actually add since not everyone refines the full 1000 right on schedule), what does the dil/zen exchange rate fluctuate and how does that correlate to both sales and "unspent zen" expense, and such.

    Changing the dil refinement cap isn't just about changing the dil refinement cap.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    While I don't think that the 8K dil refining limit is sacrosanct or anything, any changes which would actually make a meaningful difference to a wide enough group of players would throw the entire system into turmoil for a long time. There are a number of considerations:

    1. All currencies are linked. Dil, Zen, and EC and each can be converted into the others through the various markets and exchanges. Changes to one impact all the others - it's a system.

    2. The player population is not homogenous. The population of players who actually look like the statistically "average player" is probably pretty small. Changes will have wildly differing impact and value to different player population profiles. Players on both extreme ends of the spectrum will benefit to the disadvantage of those more toward the middle. In order to impact a sufficiently large group of players, a change would have to be virtually game-breaking - otherwise why bother to go through the turmoil of making changes if the actually number of players who benefit is small.

    3. Given the connection between in-game currencies and real world dollars, changes to the Dil market actually have an economic cost to Cryptic. If the Phoenix Box (a huge way to drain dil from the system - albeit very popular for players) were purely a game mechanic, it would be more regular and predictable. Simplified Accounting 101 (very, very simplified) - sale of Zen creates both an asset (revenue) and a liability for Cryptic until it's spent. If it sits on the books, the liability just sits there - like a gift card for a store - there is a reason why unused air miles, gift cards, and such have expiration dates. Draining unused Zen reduces the liability on the books. Unlike most sales, it doesn't "cost" anything to sell a ship or any other game "asset" - there are effectively no costs like there would be if a store sold a widget. The amount of Dil in the entire system has an impact on the rate at which zen and more importantly unused zen are spent. So, making changes to the dil refinement is actually not "free" for Cryptic and will cost them money on the books if not actual cashflow.

    Someone somewhere (or someone else should be fired) probably did a calculation to estimate the impact of giving lifetime subscriptions an extra 1000 dil refinement every two days vs. the subscription payment (which has an immediate cashflow impact, but would be recognized as revenue on the accounting books over a longer period of time) - how many lifetime subs are there, how much zen could it add it to the system (and how much does it actually add since not everyone refines the full 1000 right on schedule), what does the dil/zen exchange rate fluctuate and how does that correlate to both sales and "unspent zen" expense, and such.

    Changing the dil refinement cap isn't just about changing the dil refinement cap.


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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    scottyl7 wrote: »
    Add a new scalable DOFF mission to refine dilithium.

    There is the DOFF assignment at the Fleet Dilithium Mine to refine an extra 500DL every day. I do every day.

    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • aedonixaedonix Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    All that says is the solution will not be a simple one.

    Maybe the answer lies in being able to sell/spend/trade dilithium ORE (i.e. unrefined)
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    No
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,361 Arc User
    OK so the 8000 taking 96 hours is obviously a little silly, but I would actually love a scaling doff mission (or maybe an addition to the dilithium tab UI) where I could set 8000 ore to be refined daily for, say, up to four days at a time. Taking 96 hours is expected and fair, but it would save me from trying to remember to refine every single day. I'm on almost every day, so it's normally not a problem, but if I'm out of town or something (example, holidays coming up) it would be nice.

    However I'm sure the idea is exactly that. To make me log in every day and improve the numbers. Oh well.
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    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
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  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    No thanks.

    Why don't you do what normal people do who want to refine more dil ?

    Get your alt game going.
    Wait for an exp weekend and level about 10-15 toons to lvl 11. Poof. Turn in contraband everyday on each of them.

    15 toons @2000 refined per day = 30k Refined dil/day for 10 mins of click-work.

    Would rather the devs focus their time elsewhere tbh.

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  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    Well, I guess the good news is this will mean I can get a better bang for my $1 when I buy refined Dil.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,533 Arc User
    It would make sense to offer this for the lifetime sub doff mission -- instead of 1,000 at a time you can queue up 5-10,000 but then it takes 5-10 days to complete.

    For you non-LTS peasants, no way. Inflation and all that :)
  • mattaukettmattaukett Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    Isn't this in the FCT by now? @badmoonrisen can we get something about increasing Dilithium Refinement limits added to the FCT seems to come up in one shape or another every week.

    And back on topic, if they do raise the cap then all those buying zen will start complaining that the dilithium exchange rates are too high like in Neverwinter or the bad old days when Agents of Yesterday launched. Plus all the dilithium prices in game will be based on certain typical accrual rates, increase that rate (i.e. amount of refined you get) then all those prices will no doubt have to be increased to offset the rise and manage player retention for a comparable duration.

    So all in all leave the caps as they are, if you really want more refined dilithium then raise an alt or two.
  • kapla5571kapla5571 Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    I didn't see it mentioned but if you are a lifetime member the game will automatically refine 8k of dilithium per day for you, if you don't log-on to a character that day . Its very handy if you have a number of alts or are unable to login to your account due to real-world commitments. Other than that, changing the refine limits is a non-option.
    If you want more dilith now get some zen and make a purchase on the exchange.
    The game is very f2p friendly, I bought myself 2 of the 3pk ship bundles during the last ship sale with nothing more that dilith earned in game on multiple alts.
    But like anything if you want it now or have to collect them all be prepared to pay for that convenience.

    Good Luck, Happy Hunting and LLaP
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,153 Arc User
    not gonna happen. why? because there are probably a couple HUNDRED (if not more) player with more than 50 alts. thats 20 alts all doing the doff mission, dumping God knows how much Dilithium into the system, driving down the exchange from Zen to Di and Di to Zen... that would severely curtail the PURCHASE of Zen by players who dont farm Di.. that would be horrible for the game
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    scottyl7 wrote: »
    I know this is going to come up that there are numerous threads asking for an increase in the refinement cap but I am not sure if this has ever been brought up as a possible solution.

    Add a new scalable DOFF mission to refine dilithium.

    Scalable DOFF missions are currently being done with the Special Projects - example Omega Sliver - where you can create 5 Omega Slivers and the duration of the mission increases for each one refined.

    I am suggesting a simliar mission for Dilithium as an example:
    Mission has a general 24hr cool down
    For each 2000 dilithium refined, the mission time increases by 24hr.

    This means refining an additional 8000 dilithium would take 96 hrs (4 days) and you would need to wait 24hrs before you can redo the mission.

    Please remember this is really only a suggestion. :D

    The emoji at the end gave you away with your intentions. :tongue:
    None the less i don't agree as you probably know, it's draconian for a suggestion.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    It says specifically in the STO User Manual to create three Alts:

    'First thou createst a Character. Then thou must createst Alts and must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, thou hast createst the rightest number of Alts. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    It says specifically in the STO User Manual to create three Alts:

    'First thou createst a Character. Then thou must createst Alts and must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, thou hast createst the rightest number of Alts. ;)

    What if thou use multiples of three? Then thou hast counted thrice, at least twice.
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    mattaukett wrote: »
    Isn't this in the FCT by now? @badmoonrisen can we get something about increasing Dilithium Refinement limits added to the FCT seems to come up in one shape or another every week.

    And back on topic, if they do raise the cap then all those buying zen will start complaining that the dilithium exchange rates are too high like in Neverwinter or the bad old days when Agents of Yesterday launched. Plus all the dilithium prices in game will be based on certain typical accrual rates, increase that rate (i.e. amount of refined you get) then all those prices will no doubt have to be increased to offset the rise and manage player retention for a comparable duration.

    So all in all leave the caps as they are, if you really want more refined dilithium then raise an alt or two.

    I believe it is on a list that I submitted for approval, but so far, I haven't heard back on it.
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    Or just don't earn more than 8k a day per toon. Problem solved!
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,091 Arc User
    kapla5571 wrote: »
    I didn't see it mentioned but if you are a lifetime member the game will automatically refine 8k of dilithium per day for you, if you don't log-on to a character that day . Its very handy if you have a number of alts or are unable to login to your account due to real-world commitments. Other than that, changing the refine limits is a non-option.
    If you want more dilith now get some zen and make a purchase on the exchange.
    The game is very f2p friendly, I bought myself 2 of the 3pk ship bundles during the last ship sale with nothing more that dilith earned in game on multiple alts.
    But like anything if you want it now or have to collect them all be prepared to pay for that convenience.

    Good Luck, Happy Hunting and LLaP

    I've heard about this and seen something to that effect popping up the screen when logging in, but it doesn't really seem to work for me as intended. Whatevs, I make <8k per toon per day on the long run average, so not refining for a day or two won't make insurmountable stockpiles.
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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,153 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    ltminns wrote: »
    It says specifically in the STO User Manual to create three Alts:

    'First thou createst a Character. Then thou must createst Alts and must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, thou hast createst the rightest number of Alts. ;)

    What if thou use multiples of three? Then thou hast counted thrice, at least twice.

    then the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch explodeth in thy face
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    Last year there was a guy complaining about the 10 million unrefined Dilitium limit, so go figure.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,361 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    It says specifically in the STO User Manual to create three Alts:

    'First thou createst a Character. Then thou must createst Alts and must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, thou hast createst the rightest number of Alts. ;)

    Legitimately laughed out loud on that one. Thanks :D
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
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