This was discussed repeatedly over the years.
In TNG, there were no Commodores mentioned, but likewise there were no Rear Admiral Lower Halfs. That's a rank exclusive to the US Navy. Most other Navies use the rank Commodore.
As mentioned above by mirrorchaos, Gregory Quinn and Mark Jameson from TNG are listed as Rear Admiral Lower Half.
They might have been that grade, but their rank was never actually said, beyond "Admiral." That could mean they were straight up Rear Admirals or Vice Admirals. The insignia of the admirals in the first season are a little vaguely defined. Also, it's not unheard of to call a Commodore "Admiral" as he would technically be part of the Admiralty.
Quinn being RALH comes from costume notes about his insignia, which is the admiral braid with no pips. Jameson had the same insignia.
This was discussed repeatedly over the years.
In TNG, there were no Commodores mentioned, but likewise there were no Rear Admiral Lower Halfs. That's a rank exclusive to the US Navy. Most other Navies use the rank Commodore.
As mentioned above by mirrorchaos, Gregory Quinn and Mark Jameson from TNG are listed as Rear Admiral Lower Half.
That there were no Commodores mentioned doesn't mean there WERE none. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I said nothing about Commodores, but I assume you apply the same logic to RALH?
What the US Navy has or hasn't done with the Commodore rank/title, over the past 30+ years, has little bearing on my interest in seeing the title made available within my STO game. A previous Producer once suggested Commodore might become unlockable through the Fleet system. I see nothing wrong with the current team following up on such a suggestion.
I'd rule out unlock via the Admiralty System. As it would prevent anyone below level 52 being able to display the title.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Commodore/Rear Admiral Lower/1 Star Admiral, first flag rank above Captain, called Commodore before TMP, Rear Admiral Lower or 1 Star after TMP.
(...)
This is simply not true. Commodores have on-screen mentioning up until TNG "conspiracy" and after that a one-pip flag rank is never seen or mentioned again. RL reasons or not, they failed to show this on-screen and thus, commodore is very much still used in Starfleet - it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Also, the shows that came afterwards still used Commodores, they didn't retcon them away.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The insignia on the right shoulder, there is an easy way to tell if they are upper or lower half Rear Admirals, if there is no pip just below the thickest part of the insignia on the right, that is a lower half admiral. the one with the pip underneath on the right is an upper half admiral.
Also Vice Admiral Ross was also noted as just being an "Admiral" along with a few others. it may have just been easier to call each member of the Admiralty as just an Admiral on screen like who ever sits in the captains chair as a "captain". perhaps some form of tradition.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The insignia on the right shoulder, there is an easy way to tell if they are upper or lower half Rear Admirals, if there is no pip just below the thickest part of the insignia on the right, that is a lower half admiral. the one with the pip underneath on the right is an upper half admiral.
Also Vice Admiral Ross was also noted as just being an "Admiral" along with a few others. it may have just been easier to call each member of the Admiralty as just an Admiral on screen like who ever sits in the captains chair as a "captain". perhaps some form of tradition.
I think it's part of the same courtesy as a Lt.Commander always being addressed as "commander"
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
If I remember correctly, the first flag rank for the Army/Marines was called Brigadier. A Colonel commanded a division, while a Brigadier commanded a brigade. This was eventually changed to the rank of Brigadier General. Also, if I'm remembering correctly, the Army/Marines have multiple names for the same rank, depending on what you do. For instance, First Sargent and Master Sargent are the same rank, but have different positions. Perhaps such a separation is in place in STO, that the rank of Commodore exists, and it is the same rank as Rear Admiral Lower Half, but our carrer path has us promoted to RALF instead of Commodore. It is also possible that Commodore is simply a traditional title that can be given to anyone in that command position, similar to how any officer in command of a vessel is called Captain. It may have been an actual rank at one point, but now is just a tradition.
They dropped it, unfortunately, because the United States dropped it a few months after reintroducing it in the early 1980's. 'Confusion' amongst naval officers. The TNG writers were very much US-centric.
That's amazing the "Confusion" among" Navel personnel as well as a bit alarming. For me, personally - it would seem that upper half and lower half for Admiral(s) is kind of clumsy but with the Commodore rank, (of a Senior Capt or Junior Admiral) it gives the whole -command structure- a much better brand-rank distinction...and, sounds better!
However, I guess the Navel Administration wanted to follow in the footsteps of it's "Armed Forces" counterparts of Generals for star designations; (Brigadier, Major-Gen, LT-Gen, Full-Gen, 5 Star -Gen)
What I want to know is why STO has Rear Admiral Lower/Upper Half? According to Memory Alpha, they were called Rear Admiral Lower Half and Rear Admiral.
What I want to know is why STO has Rear Admiral Lower/Upper Half? According to Memory Alpha, they were called Rear Admiral Lower Half and Rear Admiral.
Memory Alpha drops the ball here, as no halves were ever mentioned in the entirety of Star Trek It's Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral. However, as far as I understand it the "lower/upper half" thing is what it's called in real life and Cryptic simply used that.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
What I want to know is why STO has Rear Admiral Lower/Upper Half? According to Memory Alpha, they were called Rear Admiral Lower Half and Rear Admiral.
Memory Alpha drops the ball here, as no halves were ever mentioned in the entirety of Star Trek It's Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral and Admiral. However, as far as I understand it the "lower/upper half" thing is what it's called in real life and Cryptic simply used that.
As I said in a previous past, they list Rear Admiral Lower Half as coming from costume notes. The 'Admiral braid with no pips' that appeared on a couple of early season Admirals was identified as RALH.
Some notes about Fleet Admiral, since it had been bandied about in this Thread.
'The proper rank of Fleet Admiral was created in 1944 in order to give United States military officers comparable rank to five-star officers of allied nations. The rank of Fleet Admiral was created by Congress to be granted to four people during the World War II era. The United States rank of Fleet Admiral was created by an Act of Congress for four officers to hold on a temporary basis under Pub.L. 78-482 on December 14, 1944. The rank was made permanent for the four individual holders by Pub.L. 79–333 on March 23, 1946, but that law made no provision to establish the rank itself permanently. Although Congress authorized the promotion of Omar Bradley to the five-star rank of general of the Army in 1950 while serving as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff so that he would be of the same rank as General of the Army Douglas MacArthur, the theater commander in Korea, there has been no new legislation authorizing the use of the rank of Fleet Admiral since 1946.'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Another good example why real life does not dictate Starfleet's structure: Despite not having the rank int he navy, as quoted above, there are five-pip "Fleet Admirals" in Starfleet. However, Vice Admirals were also "Fleet Admirals", making it probably more of a position possibly like "Fleet Captain".
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Trying to figure out ranks by going with what someone is called gets you nowhere. In the Trek, just as in RL, multiple ranks are called by the same title unless the exact rank is pertinent to the conversation at hand. For example, in the Army we had Sergeant E5, Staff Sergeant E6, Sergeant First Class E7 (my rank at retirement), Master Sergeant E8, and Sergeant Major E9. All of those ranks other than Sergeant Major, were addressed as simply Sergeant unless their exact rank was pertinent to the topic at hand. There were a few exceptions such as First Sergeant, although still "just" an E8 the duty position made them Fist Sergeant (also called Top, as in Top Dog). Also Sergeant Major, by virtue of duty position could be Command Sergeant Major instead.
There was also the Specialist ranks, which went from Spec 4 to Spec 7, yet all were addressed simply as Specialist, as far as true rank went, a Spec 4 and an E4 were the same rank, Sp5=E5 etc. The difference being that E4 (Corporals) and Sergeants were assigned to a leadership position whereas Specialist ranks were not in a leadership position, I myself was up for promotion to Specialist 5 when the Specialist ranks other than Spec 4 were done away with so instead I got promoted to Sergeant.
Then Warrant Officers from Warrant Officer 1, then Chief Warrant Officer 2 to 4 and the addition of Chief Master Warrant 5 (later changed to just Chief Warrant 5). All of those ranks were generally addressed a Chief. Although a WO1 wasn't a Chief yet, it was still an accepted term of address. As a side note, it was also an acceptable term of address to call them Mister, which came from a time in the past when Warrant Officers were actually outside of the official chain of command.
Then for actual Officers, we have First and Second Lieutenant, both addressed as Lieutenant, Lieutenant Colonel and Colonel both addressed as Colonel and four ranks of General all addressed simply as General (not including General of the Army, a rank which only exits during war time, yet still addressed simply as General).
All branches of service have the same thing, different ranks that are addressed by the same name in normal conversation, I only detailed the one I didn't have to google.
Yes, a lot of text, and for what purpose ? Because Star Trek, whether the various series or the various movies treated ranks the exact same way. The only time actual ranks were specifically addressed was when it was pertinent to the script/plot line. Rear Admiral lower/Upper/Vice Admiral/Admiral were all called Admiral except when the exact rank was important to the conversation. Acting Captains were always addressed as Captain except when the exact rank was important to the conversation. Engineer and Chief Engineer etc. Although I don't recall the exact actual ranks involved, we also had examples of people being addressed as Mister instead of by their actual rank.
Trying to figure out the actual rank of individuals in the series and movies based on what people called them gets you absolutely nowhere unless the conversation actually dealt with clarifying what their exact rank actually was.
In RL, Commodore was strictly a term of address given to someone whose true rank was Captain but was temporarily put in command of multiple ships, It's much easier to call someone Commodore than to call them "Captain temporarily in charge". Commodore was made an official rank in the USN....for less than year before being scrapped.
From what little research I felt like doing, in the Trek Universe, Commodore was also used there to designate someone in charge of a small group of ships, more than a Captain who was only in charge of one ship, but less than a RALF in charge of a decent number of ships and in the Trek universe, that rank and even that term of address has been totally done away with. As far as STO is concerned, we do temporarily get put in charge of a number of ships in a number of missions, effectively making us Commodores during that mission, but upon mission completion we are right back to commanding a single ship as a Captain. Actually a few mission we are acting as actual Fleet Admirals as we are in charge of every ship in a huge Fleet of ships, but we still go right back to being in charge of a single ship once the mission is over.
To echo what a bunch of people have already said over a number of years. Ranks in Sto should have capped at Captain as even at end game, we are playing the role of Captain. We already have the various Admiral ranks that don't match what our actual role in the game is other than during specific missions, we don't need yet anther rank that truly only applies during a few specific missions.
n RL, Commodore was strictly a term of address given to someone whose true rank was Captain but was temporarily put in command of multiple ships, It's much easier to call someone Commodore than to call them "Captain temporarily in charge". Commodore was made an official rank in the USN....for less than year before being scrapped.
Just like Commodore Wesley in the war games with the M-5 computer!
To echo what a bunch of people have already said over a number of years. Ranks in Sto should have capped at Captain as even at end game, we are playing the role of Captain. We already have the various Admiral ranks that don't match what our actual role in the game is other than during specific missions, we don't need yet anther rank that truly only applies during a few specific missions.
^^ 100% This!
We are Captains, and should be reduced in rank as such, to fulfill the duty for which we have repeatedly demonstrated unswerving ability: the command of a starship.
Getting that monkey back in the cage will prove more problematic at this point. How many players will cry if their Admiral tag us replaced with Captain? Even if nothing but the title changes, there will be multitudes who claim they will rage quit because of their demotion.
I see it as a brevet commission anyway. After the crisis in which the promotion was earned is over, those so breveted can choose to retire/resign and retain their title, accept a reinstatement of their original rank, or receive a promotion from their original rank to some intermediary rank. A famous real world example of this in action is 'General' Custer, who was rapidly promoted far beyond his age should have allowed due to his ability to ride a horse in combat. After the war he was 'promoted' to Lieutenant Colonel from his permanent rank of Captain, after having been breveted to Major General at the age of 24 during the war.
But history seems to forget that at the time of Little Big Horn, General Custer was a light colonel. And we tend to forget that our own preposterously fast drive to the Admiralty was due to a series of brevet promotions at points of crisis rather than slow, steady progress up the chain of command.
In TOS we see that Commodores were generally Starbase commanders (including Cestus III, sort of an outpost, and maybe the groundwork for Starfleet's plans to establish a Starbase there). The two exceptions, as far as we can tell, are Decker and Wesley. Wesley was a Task Group Commander.
Decker? Maybe his 'Task Group' was all the pieces of smashed planets.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Getting that monkey back in the cage will prove more problematic at this point. How many players will cry if their Admiral tag us replaced with Captain? Even if nothing but the title changes, there will be multitudes who claim they will rage quit because of their demotion.
I see it as a brevet commission anyway. After the crisis in which the promotion was earned is over, those so breveted can choose to retire/resign and retain their title, accept a reinstatement of their original rank, or receive a promotion from their original rank to some intermediary rank. A famous real world example of this in action is 'General' Custer, who was rapidly promoted far beyond his age should have allowed due to his ability to ride a horse in combat. After the war he was 'promoted' to Lieutenant Colonel from his permanent rank of Captain, after having been breveted to Major General at the age of 24 during the war.
But history seems to forget that at the time of Little Big Horn, General Custer was a light colonel. And we tend to forget that our own preposterously fast drive to the Admiralty was due to a series of brevet promotions at points of crisis rather than slow, steady progress up the chain of command.
I see it as an issue from story angle as well. The Fed pc is breveted to Lieutenant from the very beginning. They should barely be that rank after this amount of time in service. All of the rank ups have been to be able to put them in greater and greater scope. IE what if star fleet admirals are not looked at for insanity but a level of efficiency? The dangerously twisted might get there easier than a moral captain. But the twist not looked for in itself. But I am getting off topic.
The problem is the other factions.
KDF you took command of your ship. Lead it into honorable battle. Then on return to Qo'nos had to prove you got the command properly. You survived that. Survived hunting down the escaped prisoner. Thrived in battling another house. Survived ambushes and assassination attempts and proved your mettle in war. There are no brevets here. You clawed your way up through the ranks over the bodies of your opponents.
RRW was a security officer on a farm world. You took your first ship out of necessity. Inducted into an informal flotilla that eventually grew to a new nation. Were according to story considered for the flagship of the fledgling nation. There is no readjust the fleet to knock this hero down. Heck we are damned lucky they stick around and put up with the rules we do employ. They are not risking you leaving or worse retiring. (Leave you might come back. Retire and you hung up your weapons and a new attacker will come to where ever you are.)
So unless they wipe away the other factions entirely. I do not see them able to demote back down to just captain.
The best they can do is change the rank of Rear Admiral Lower Half and make it Commodore then rear admiral, etc.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Okay, every Federation Admiral that wants a Bird of Prey can steal then esplode a Connie Retrofit. But you have to crash it in the second movie. Voila, Captain again.
I added the "rank" of Commodore to my character's name (first name) so when you look at them in the info screen it says in large letters "Commodore (firstname) (lastname)". My AOY and one regular Starfleet characters use that and the one pip insignia. It's a work around xD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
According to Memory Alpha, the Commodore Ranks in the Enterprise/TOS eras are equivilant to Rear Admiral Lower Half in the TNG Era which is what our games ranks are based on. So therefore we have it but under a different name as we go Captain, Rear Admiral, Lower Half and Rear Admiral Upper Half which also follows real world US Navy and a few international Navy's. And as much as I'd love to see Rear Admiral Lower Half changed to Commodore, we wouldn't be following the TNG Rank structure which is what follows starfleet for the rest of the series.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I posted the URL to that Memory Alpha article further up in the Thread.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
Quinn being RALH comes from costume notes about his insignia, which is the admiral braid with no pips. Jameson had the same insignia.
I said nothing about Commodores, but I assume you apply the same logic to RALH?
I'd rule out unlock via the Admiralty System. As it would prevent anyone below level 52 being able to display the title.
This is simply not true. Commodores have on-screen mentioning up until TNG "conspiracy" and after that a one-pip flag rank is never seen or mentioned again. RL reasons or not, they failed to show this on-screen and thus, commodore is very much still used in Starfleet - it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Also, the shows that came afterwards still used Commodores, they didn't retcon them away.
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Also Vice Admiral Ross was also noted as just being an "Admiral" along with a few others. it may have just been easier to call each member of the Admiralty as just an Admiral on screen like who ever sits in the captains chair as a "captain". perhaps some form of tradition.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Also, if I'm remembering correctly, the Army/Marines have multiple names for the same rank, depending on what you do. For instance, First Sargent and Master Sargent are the same rank, but have different positions.
Perhaps such a separation is in place in STO, that the rank of Commodore exists, and it is the same rank as Rear Admiral Lower Half, but our carrer path has us promoted to RALF instead of Commodore.
It is also possible that Commodore is simply a traditional title that can be given to anyone in that command position, similar to how any officer in command of a vessel is called Captain. It may have been an actual rank at one point, but now is just a tradition.
That's amazing the "Confusion" among" Navel personnel as well as a bit alarming. For me, personally - it would seem that upper half and lower half for Admiral(s) is kind of clumsy but with the Commodore rank, (of a Senior Capt or Junior Admiral) it gives the whole -command structure- a much better brand-rank distinction...and, sounds better!
However, I guess the Navel Administration wanted to follow in the footsteps of it's "Armed Forces" counterparts of Generals for star designations; (Brigadier, Major-Gen, LT-Gen, Full-Gen, 5 Star -Gen)
A Rear Admiral commands a Task Force.
A Fleet Admiral commands, well, a Fleet.
This is not absolute, but customary.
Memory Alpha drops the ball here, as no halves were ever mentioned in the entirety of Star Trek
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'The proper rank of Fleet Admiral was created in 1944 in order to give United States military officers comparable rank to five-star officers of allied nations. The rank of Fleet Admiral was created by Congress to be granted to four people during the World War II era. The United States rank of Fleet Admiral was created by an Act of Congress for four officers to hold on a temporary basis under Pub.L. 78-482 on December 14, 1944. The rank was made permanent for the four individual holders by Pub.L. 79–333 on March 23, 1946, but that law made no provision to establish the rank itself permanently. Although Congress authorized the promotion of Omar Bradley to the five-star rank of general of the Army in 1950 while serving as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff so that he would be of the same rank as General of the Army Douglas MacArthur, the theater commander in Korea, there has been no new legislation authorizing the use of the rank of Fleet Admiral since 1946.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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There was also the Specialist ranks, which went from Spec 4 to Spec 7, yet all were addressed simply as Specialist, as far as true rank went, a Spec 4 and an E4 were the same rank, Sp5=E5 etc. The difference being that E4 (Corporals) and Sergeants were assigned to a leadership position whereas Specialist ranks were not in a leadership position, I myself was up for promotion to Specialist 5 when the Specialist ranks other than Spec 4 were done away with so instead I got promoted to Sergeant.
Then Warrant Officers from Warrant Officer 1, then Chief Warrant Officer 2 to 4 and the addition of Chief Master Warrant 5 (later changed to just Chief Warrant 5). All of those ranks were generally addressed a Chief. Although a WO1 wasn't a Chief yet, it was still an accepted term of address. As a side note, it was also an acceptable term of address to call them Mister, which came from a time in the past when Warrant Officers were actually outside of the official chain of command.
Then for actual Officers, we have First and Second Lieutenant, both addressed as Lieutenant, Lieutenant Colonel and Colonel both addressed as Colonel and four ranks of General all addressed simply as General (not including General of the Army, a rank which only exits during war time, yet still addressed simply as General).
All branches of service have the same thing, different ranks that are addressed by the same name in normal conversation, I only detailed the one I didn't have to google.
Yes, a lot of text, and for what purpose ? Because Star Trek, whether the various series or the various movies treated ranks the exact same way. The only time actual ranks were specifically addressed was when it was pertinent to the script/plot line. Rear Admiral lower/Upper/Vice Admiral/Admiral were all called Admiral except when the exact rank was important to the conversation. Acting Captains were always addressed as Captain except when the exact rank was important to the conversation. Engineer and Chief Engineer etc. Although I don't recall the exact actual ranks involved, we also had examples of people being addressed as Mister instead of by their actual rank.
Trying to figure out the actual rank of individuals in the series and movies based on what people called them gets you absolutely nowhere unless the conversation actually dealt with clarifying what their exact rank actually was.
In RL, Commodore was strictly a term of address given to someone whose true rank was Captain but was temporarily put in command of multiple ships, It's much easier to call someone Commodore than to call them "Captain temporarily in charge". Commodore was made an official rank in the USN....for less than year before being scrapped.
From what little research I felt like doing, in the Trek Universe, Commodore was also used there to designate someone in charge of a small group of ships, more than a Captain who was only in charge of one ship, but less than a RALF in charge of a decent number of ships and in the Trek universe, that rank and even that term of address has been totally done away with. As far as STO is concerned, we do temporarily get put in charge of a number of ships in a number of missions, effectively making us Commodores during that mission, but upon mission completion we are right back to commanding a single ship as a Captain. Actually a few mission we are acting as actual Fleet Admirals as we are in charge of every ship in a huge Fleet of ships, but we still go right back to being in charge of a single ship once the mission is over.
To echo what a bunch of people have already said over a number of years. Ranks in Sto should have capped at Captain as even at end game, we are playing the role of Captain. We already have the various Admiral ranks that don't match what our actual role in the game is other than during specific missions, we don't need yet anther rank that truly only applies during a few specific missions.
I
Just like Commodore Wesley in the war games with the M-5 computer!
^^ 100% This!
We are Captains, and should be reduced in rank as such, to fulfill the duty for which we have repeatedly demonstrated unswerving ability: the command of a starship.
I see it as a brevet commission anyway. After the crisis in which the promotion was earned is over, those so breveted can choose to retire/resign and retain their title, accept a reinstatement of their original rank, or receive a promotion from their original rank to some intermediary rank. A famous real world example of this in action is 'General' Custer, who was rapidly promoted far beyond his age should have allowed due to his ability to ride a horse in combat. After the war he was 'promoted' to Lieutenant Colonel from his permanent rank of Captain, after having been breveted to Major General at the age of 24 during the war.
But history seems to forget that at the time of Little Big Horn, General Custer was a light colonel. And we tend to forget that our own preposterously fast drive to the Admiralty was due to a series of brevet promotions at points of crisis rather than slow, steady progress up the chain of command.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Commodore
In TOS we see that Commodores were generally Starbase commanders (including Cestus III, sort of an outpost, and maybe the groundwork for Starfleet's plans to establish a Starbase there). The two exceptions, as far as we can tell, are Decker and Wesley. Wesley was a Task Group Commander.
Decker? Maybe his 'Task Group' was all the pieces of smashed planets.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I see it as an issue from story angle as well. The Fed pc is breveted to Lieutenant from the very beginning. They should barely be that rank after this amount of time in service. All of the rank ups have been to be able to put them in greater and greater scope. IE what if star fleet admirals are not looked at for insanity but a level of efficiency? The dangerously twisted might get there easier than a moral captain. But the twist not looked for in itself. But I am getting off topic.
The problem is the other factions.
KDF you took command of your ship. Lead it into honorable battle. Then on return to Qo'nos had to prove you got the command properly. You survived that. Survived hunting down the escaped prisoner. Thrived in battling another house. Survived ambushes and assassination attempts and proved your mettle in war. There are no brevets here. You clawed your way up through the ranks over the bodies of your opponents.
RRW was a security officer on a farm world. You took your first ship out of necessity. Inducted into an informal flotilla that eventually grew to a new nation. Were according to story considered for the flagship of the fledgling nation. There is no readjust the fleet to knock this hero down. Heck we are damned lucky they stick around and put up with the rules we do employ. They are not risking you leaving or worse retiring. (Leave you might come back. Retire and you hung up your weapons and a new attacker will come to where ever you are.)
So unless they wipe away the other factions entirely. I do not see them able to demote back down to just captain.
The best they can do is change the rank of Rear Admiral Lower Half and make it Commodore then rear admiral, etc.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'