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The Federation, utopian society or just Starfleet propaganda?
lordrezeon
Member Posts: 399 Arc User
in Ten Forward
This is kind of an extension of an off topic discussion from a different thread. In that discussion we were getting into the economics of Star Trek and the weird inconsistent ways that Federation society is structured.
We have always had the Federation portrayed as an ideal utopian society. However much of this is the claims of Starfleet officers who serve as government ambassadors whose duty is to promote the Federation to new civilizations. What we hear from Starfleet and what we see in actual episodes often clash.
We often hear boasts about the Federation's vast membership and stances on equality among all species. This gets counterpointed by the simple reality that all major governmental functions are centered around Earth with humans being the dominating force in practically everything that happens.
We hear about the rights and sovereignty of the colony worlds, but routinely see Starfleet captains impose themselves on colonists who have little recourse to prevent this. This particular issue eventually boils over into the Maquis crisis, when the Federation Council gives away several colony worlds without the consent of the populace, and then brand the colonists criminals when they refuse to obey the edict.
While we see major home worlds like Earth enjoy great prosperity, the majority of colonies we see are poverty stricken with tiny populations and the inability to sustain themselves. We also rarely see anything in the way of civilian ship traffic within Federation space. Rather than major port worlds like Earth being bustling hubs of commerce, we instead see the silent emptiness of space.
Looking back at the fifty plus years of Star Trek continuity, I find myself hard pressed to find examples of the Federation treating its colonies as anything more than dumping grounds for its societal undesirables. We have seen far to often that once a colony is established it becomes largely forgotten by the Federation Council until they want something.
Perhaps the most poignant example of this would be the utopian planet of galactic peace, Nimbus III. In Star Trek 5 we see in-story Federation propaganda showing a green thriving colony home to the peace delegations of the three major powers in the region. This is then revealed to be a farce, with the colony being a desolate shanty town whose inhabitants struggle to survive from day to day while the ambassadors lounge around binging on their vices.
What do you guys think? Is the Federation what it claims to be?
We have always had the Federation portrayed as an ideal utopian society. However much of this is the claims of Starfleet officers who serve as government ambassadors whose duty is to promote the Federation to new civilizations. What we hear from Starfleet and what we see in actual episodes often clash.
We often hear boasts about the Federation's vast membership and stances on equality among all species. This gets counterpointed by the simple reality that all major governmental functions are centered around Earth with humans being the dominating force in practically everything that happens.
We hear about the rights and sovereignty of the colony worlds, but routinely see Starfleet captains impose themselves on colonists who have little recourse to prevent this. This particular issue eventually boils over into the Maquis crisis, when the Federation Council gives away several colony worlds without the consent of the populace, and then brand the colonists criminals when they refuse to obey the edict.
While we see major home worlds like Earth enjoy great prosperity, the majority of colonies we see are poverty stricken with tiny populations and the inability to sustain themselves. We also rarely see anything in the way of civilian ship traffic within Federation space. Rather than major port worlds like Earth being bustling hubs of commerce, we instead see the silent emptiness of space.
Looking back at the fifty plus years of Star Trek continuity, I find myself hard pressed to find examples of the Federation treating its colonies as anything more than dumping grounds for its societal undesirables. We have seen far to often that once a colony is established it becomes largely forgotten by the Federation Council until they want something.
Perhaps the most poignant example of this would be the utopian planet of galactic peace, Nimbus III. In Star Trek 5 we see in-story Federation propaganda showing a green thriving colony home to the peace delegations of the three major powers in the region. This is then revealed to be a farce, with the colony being a desolate shanty town whose inhabitants struggle to survive from day to day while the ambassadors lounge around binging on their vices.
What do you guys think? Is the Federation what it claims to be?
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I think Nimbus 3 was in the Neutral Zone....and I think the Ferengi would love the place.
Most of those distance colonies, if anything, probably get sacked cause they are do distant.
Humans are shown as the center of the Federation, but that's because humans are the only actors available, and all that makeup costs money. The movies were more inclusive because the budgets allowed more makeup. If we were to have a view of the Federation from the PoV of Fourth Fleet we'd see how influential Tellar Prime is in the colonies, and humans would be rare, with Andorians seldom seen, if at all.
Starfleet captains generally show up at worlds in trouble. Prosperous colonies are where they spend shore leave. Shore leave can be fun, but some other guy's vacation videos are generally exceptionally boring, so we seldom see the well managed and prosperous colonies unless something goes wrong.
When captains do run roughshod over local politicians it is because they screwed up so badly a starship had to be called in to fix things. Judging the entire Federation by the failures may be a great guide to Federation ethics, but it says nothing at all about the many more prospering Federation worlds we never visit because nothing thrilling happened there to catch our attention.
Nimbus III is an allegory for the United Nations which has such promise but squanders so much of it on propaganda while neglecting the needs of much of the Third World. Big on promises, short on delivery, leaving the population susceptable to the whims of charismatic dictators. Its sole purpose was to serve to demonstrate the nature of Sybok as a dictator assuming power with the collusion of people whose suposed purpose is to prevent exactly that.
So, is the Federation the Utopia it is advertised to be? I guess that depends on what you want in a Utopia.
Sisko summed up the Federation perfectly here
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
First, we don't really know who is responsible for the settling of colonies, do we? Governments within the Federation are, to a large extent, independent. It may well be that many of the less developed colonies were not Starfleet's or the Federation as a whole's reponsibility to begin with. Some of them might not even have been founded by a government at all, instead starting as an independent enterprise (such as we see in the Terra Prime episodes in Enterprise - Paxton's father mainly build the colony as part of a mining enterprise) or even by a handful of individuals (I think the colony where Soong lived is a good example of this?) either voluntarily, or after having been displaced.
Second, there are plenty of examples of succesfully developed colonies. Cestus II for example. Or the Alpha Centauri system. It may simply take time to fully integrate newly found worlds.
Some other worlds may not be as well protected as others (such as Vega in STO) but that's understandable to some extent. In most countries, big cities such as the capital or cities with important ports and financial centres are probably prioritised in terms of security and services, but that's because most people live there.
Many other things can be explained by real life reasons. Usually when Earth is shown, it is shown because something is going to happen on/to Earth. So, the planet is shown because the viewer needs to know the setting or understand that Earth is threatened such as in First Contact. When this is the only reason to show Earth, it is understandable that they don't take too much effort to project ships, stations, shuttles, freighters flying around etc. In some scenes where some senseof activity was important to remind the viewer that it's part of the core of the Federation, some presence of ships was shown (such as in the Voyager finale).
The only time I can think of that the lack of any sort of presence was a bit strange, was during the Xindi crisis. I thought it was odd not to see a single ship in the system (for instance, where was the Intrepid which we do see shortly after the first attack by the probe or even any Vulcan ship to protect their ally or even just the Vulcan subpopulation living on Earth or their ambassador?).
Besides those rare instances, most things you mentioned can be reasonably well explained. There's no need to assume that the Federation isn't as well developed just because we don't see it all the time. There are other good explanations for the apparent lack of activity at times.
And just to give another explanation for the human dominance: besides what has been mentioned (that the actors are human), the audience is also human. So it makes sense to show mostly humans or even a humanoid with some small variations such as pointy ears or spots. It's easier to relate to.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
---
On a more serious note, we only see the Federation through the lens of human story-writers. However, we do not see it through the lense of Starfleet, since that's a fictional entity within the story. So I think we generally have to take what we see at face value.
It seems pretty obvious to me however that the Federation has a pretty "laissez faire" attitude most of the time. No one seems to be bothered by non-human customs, or limit them in any way. The Vulcans can follow their Vulcan traditions, be it their logic or their weird combat rituals in case of marriage disputes. The same seems to apply to Andorians. Betazoids still get to have their weird titles and nude wedding ceremonies. The Trill can maintain their Symbiont Commission to handle their planetary uniqueness.
So from the point of liberty, it seems the Federation is doing pretty well.
Beyond that:
We don't really see poor conditions on Federation worlds we visit. Even young colonies don't seem to be so bad off, and the people involved in terraforming and colonization projects seem pretty content with their job (even though it is still bound to be a lot harder than living on Earth.)
So I say it's pretty Utopian. And you have a lot of freedom in how to experience that Utopia. If you feel limited by your planet's customs and people, you can travel, become a trader or colonist, or maybe you can even qualify for Starfleet.
Nice place, if you like gangrape and having to get high to blot out the horror of it all...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
A new paradigm of thinking is required, would the masses, and the current power mongers in charge be able to handle it without a temper tantrum?
Utopia doesn't need a lot of room just a place to eat, sleep, deal with waste, and a place to hook up virtual reality. If we really want to get efficient, then just use the pods in the Matrix and stack them up. After all, one man's utopia is another's dystopia.
Unfortunately people in a position of authority and power would rather do the opposite and cause conflict where one shouldn't exist. Politics in this day and age is just as dangerous and as deadly as any bomb. Using weapons to maim others is always going to lead to more violence. Since there is a point to be made regarding equality the current President of the USA has banned Transgender people from serving in the armed forces, that is simply the latest in a long line of disappointing results for any potential enlightened attitude.
For there to be a real utopia, we need to give up on those things that hold us back; money, religion, politics, nations and there are countless other things that produce the same results, companies are all about how much they can make even if it means sacrificing other small businesses so they can dominate and corner the market instead of having diversity.
The amount of things going on in this day and age, i wouldn't expect to see Utopia in our lifetime.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Pretty much this. Progress is hard and there's always a chance to fall back into old habits: as Babylon 5 put it, "It's going to take a lot longer than a hundred years to breed a better human."
Utopias are always flawed, because humans are flawed creatures. It's either flawed the way of The Giver or Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Ones Who Walked Away from Omelas", where the flaws are there to make a point, or it's flawed the way of Season 1 TNG where the flaws are there due to lousy writing. And if there somehow are no flaws, you end up with something like Michael Z. Williamson's Freehold of Grainne, with an entire planet of boringly hypercompetent and preachy Mary Sues.
The Federation, written well, isn't a utopia at all, but it is a place where humanity has managed to (mostly) kick the habits of scapegoating others for base traits they can't change and actually tries to deal forthrightly with the causes of its problems. They don't always succeed, and sometimes the problems of the moment overwhelm their efforts and they have to select a less optimal solution, but they always try to find the most correct one. I always like to point out the conclusion of DS9 for this: despite two years of bloody war with atrocities out the wazoo, the Federation achieves peace with an implacable species-supremacist adversary not by wiping them out, but through an act of kindness and mercy that also thwarts those who wanted exactly that.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The military is not about equality. It is all about protecting a nation from foreign threats, killing the enemy, and winning wars. Tons of people are excluded from the military for whatever reason because accepting them would diminish the military's effectiveness. After all, performing heart surgery for a pre-existing condition means that there is less money to buy more ammo. If it is proven that transgenders make better soldiers than the others, then the military would reconsider their ban.
Personally, I think the military is unintentionally saving transgenders from the inevitable layoffs due to replacing soldiers with drones. Drones do what they are told, don't create any scandals, don't suffer from PTSD, and require less maintenance.
Excuse me. Tricare spends an order of magnitude more on ED drugs for retirees every year than it does on transgender personnel's needs. And drones may not suffer from PTSD but their pilots still do.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Not so much the politicians, but the special interest who's boots the politicians lick.
I'd rather see thinking people, rather than obedient machines do it....personally, we got WAY to much $$$ spent on military, and not enough on real problems.
It is one of the incentives for being a veteran. Veteran benefits are one of the reasons why people enlist in the military. Besides per person, ED drugs cost far less than transgender personnel's needs. So obviously ED drugs would cost an order of magnitude more when there are an order of magnitude more Veterans than transgenders.
When has any soldier been replaced by a drone? I am talking about 10 or 20 years from now when there will be no need for pilots just some commander issuing an order to a drone which carries out the mission not to a pilot that commands the drone.
As for transgender troops, my way of thinking is that if a person's psychological state is such that transition drugs/surgery are a medical necessity in order to maintain their mental health, they're probably more vulnerable to psychological trauma than most and therefore it would be irresponsible to admit them into a high-risk, high-stress profession such as the military. It puts them in unnecessary pain and puts the people they serve with at risk. Then again, maybe military training would help them work through that vulnerability, but if it doesn't, then it would open up the military to lawsuits and we'd end up wasting money that way.
In point of fact, the cost of separating all trans service personnel would be higher than the medical cost of said personnel. Trump's supposed justification is merely cover for his own transphobia.
As for drones, we have no AI capable of warfighting yet. All those misnamed "drones" are in fact RPVs, Remotely Piloted Vehicles. And, contrary to expectations, the pilots do indeed suffer from PTSD - they can see the living human beings through those cameras, and there's definitely an experiential difference from NPCs in a video game. You know NPCs are just code - and you know those guys on the remote cameras are real.
I'm going to recommend a movie here, Eye in the Sky with Helen Mirren and the late Alan Rickman (the last film he made before he passed). It is a very well-researched and well-acted fictional recreation of a drone kill mission (and, speaking of video games, one much more in the vein of Spec Ops: The Line than Call of Duty).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Never mind, we're all buggered.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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He says hi. Now get your kit off, no clothes in utopia. Future Earth is naked...
...I know we don't have planet wide climate controls but just strip off damn it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!