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State of Overwhelming Force Spaceship Trait
deathray38
Member Posts: 210 Arc User
After last patches, OF recived hidden "fix":
Regular Romulan HyperPlasma destructible projectiles no longer trigger photonic shockwave.
- Photonic Shockwave was buffed few patches ago - and this buff wasn't applied to Overwhelming Force
- Charged Particles Burst got massive buff long time ago - And Overwhelming Force wasn't included in this buff
I know this Starship Trait is suppossed to apply "weaker" variants of regular abilities, but in it's current form, CPB variant is completely inferior - and not worth wasting trait slot in any case.
Power comparison (stats for my ship):
Charged Particles Burst I:
5km range
-7113 to all shield facings
-4,6% shields resistance for 7s
disable cloaking for 7s
Overwhelming Force on Beam Overload:
3.3km Sphere
-2371 to all shield facings
disable cloaking for 7s
Photonic Shockwave I:
3km range
4912 Kinetic Damage
19.8 Repel
2.2s Disable
-30 Kinetic damage reistance rating for 10s
Overwhelming Force on Torpedo: HY:
2km sphere
2169 Kinetic Damage
27.6 Repel
2.2s Disable
- Both variants of OF are mising resistance debuff in any form. 50% of "regular" resistances debuff should be fair.
- Both variants of OF are far too weak compared to even level I abilities. B:O variant do only 33% damage, T:HY variant do 44% damage. IMO both should be set at 66%-75% of basic abilities (note, these activations are not free, both require specific build and take Spaceship Trait slot).
- Photonic Aftershocks DOFF do not work with Overwhelming Force Photonic Shockwaves
TL:DR:
Overwhelming Force, after "bugfix" is nearly useless, and require some love:
- Specific powers/abilities related to photonic shockwave/CPB don't work on Overwhelming Force
- Damage output is too low by far (especially CPB part), especially for something taking Spaceship Trait Slot
- Resistance debuffs from main abilities are missing
Your opinion?
Regular Romulan HyperPlasma destructible projectiles no longer trigger photonic shockwave.
- Photonic Shockwave was buffed few patches ago - and this buff wasn't applied to Overwhelming Force
- Charged Particles Burst got massive buff long time ago - And Overwhelming Force wasn't included in this buff
I know this Starship Trait is suppossed to apply "weaker" variants of regular abilities, but in it's current form, CPB variant is completely inferior - and not worth wasting trait slot in any case.
Power comparison (stats for my ship):
Charged Particles Burst I:
5km range
-7113 to all shield facings
-4,6% shields resistance for 7s
disable cloaking for 7s
Overwhelming Force on Beam Overload:
3.3km Sphere
-2371 to all shield facings
disable cloaking for 7s
Photonic Shockwave I:
3km range
4912 Kinetic Damage
19.8 Repel
2.2s Disable
-30 Kinetic damage reistance rating for 10s
Overwhelming Force on Torpedo: HY:
2km sphere
2169 Kinetic Damage
27.6 Repel
2.2s Disable
- Both variants of OF are mising resistance debuff in any form. 50% of "regular" resistances debuff should be fair.
- Both variants of OF are far too weak compared to even level I abilities. B:O variant do only 33% damage, T:HY variant do 44% damage. IMO both should be set at 66%-75% of basic abilities (note, these activations are not free, both require specific build and take Spaceship Trait slot).
- Photonic Aftershocks DOFF do not work with Overwhelming Force Photonic Shockwaves
TL:DR:
Overwhelming Force, after "bugfix" is nearly useless, and require some love:
- Specific powers/abilities related to photonic shockwave/CPB don't work on Overwhelming Force
- Damage output is too low by far (especially CPB part), especially for something taking Spaceship Trait Slot
- Resistance debuffs from main abilities are missing
Your opinion?
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Comments
One thing they could do is reverse the repel, making it bunch up the bad guys would have real value and synergize well with AOE high yield torps.
Trait need buff, preferably something making it's effectiveness more similar to abilities it is supposed to mimic - stats much closer to CPB 1 and PS 1. Retrurning old "bug", by allowing activations on all destructible torps wil be nice too.
This "feature" was one of last (if not THE last) reason to use this trait. I'm OK with removing this "feature", as long as this "feature" is replaced by real buff making it on-pair with at least tier B/C+ traits. Before this fix/nerf it was situational C-/D trait, able to do "something" in dedicated torpedo build (B:O part of trait was always TRIBBLE). Actually it is tier F- trait, basically "nearly everything else is better".
Why? I really like general concept of this trait, and only thing this trait need is buffing it's stats closer to it's "parent" abilities.
3/4 damage and other effects on already reduced radius is fair deal for something taking entire Starship Trait slot.
If something is working to well...
Nerf if to hell!
Well... It never worked well.
- Charged Particles Burst part was TRIBBLE, just like CPB ability. CPB few patches ago get massive buffs (~+100%), but OF variant of ability stayed unchanged for no reason.
- Photonic Shockwave part was extremely situational (even problematic, if not used correctly - it could, for example, push Nanite Spheres in I:C in undesired direction), and required specific build and skills. Triggering on all types of destructibles was useful feature, because it was balancing their low speed and vulnerability to enemy fire.
HyperPlasma swarm, especially combined with some kind of gravity well was absolute best use of OF - by "best" I mean only scenario, where OF wasn't utter TRIBBLE and was able to do something interesting. Damage-wise it was still meh, but pushing enemy ships across the battlefield was very, very interesting feature.
Fix/nerf, without desired buff basically killed this trait. It was always situational, now it is just useless in basically every situation. I don't expect turning it into another staple like AHOD, EWC or PE, I am just asking for turning this interesting (by design) trait into something useful by simple stats buff.
Well I was talking mostly about the sending things flying long distances...
Reputation trait Piezo-Electric Weapon Amplification:
5% Chance for your weapons to cause an AOE shield drain centered on your primary target.
10s cooldown, 5% activation chance on all weapons.
It is basically doing same thing as Overwhelming Force on BO component, with few differences:
PEWA:
It is triggered on every weapon shoot, and usually need 2-5s to activate (with cooldown, it activates every 12-15s)
OFBO:
Require BO to trigger, if You are not using [OVER] beams you need 2 BO or very good cooldown reduction from other stuff to reach 15s mark
PEWA:
Damage (for 400 Drain Expertise): ~6870 to every shield facing
OFBO:
Damage (for 400 Drain Expertise): ~2370 to every shield facing (+7s stealth disable)
OF takes more valuable Starship Trait slot, deal ~65% less damage and triggers significantly less frequent.
Even worse, I am comparing it to C or even D rated reputation trait...
OF in ts current form is not "weak" or even "significantly underpowered", it is just unusable for any reason other then FX.
My character Tsin'xing
Both halves of OF require 2 different weapons (Beam and torp) and 2 different skills (BO and THY), and possibly a lot of support skills (more copies of BO/THY to get reasonable cooldows, or significant reduction skills at least) - so You are handicapped at start. Fortunatelly... I am running such build (30-50k DPS), and:
Damage from OF Photonic Shockwave component in my build is around... 100 DPS (only 70 Exotic Particles skills, but even If You get 700 it will not become powerhouse).
Damage from OF Charged Particles Burst is around 700 DPS (400 Drain Expertise).
Both my T:HY and B:O are close to globals (~16,5s), so it is not an issue.
In the same queue, Piezo-Electric Amplification did 5000 DPS.
On one hand I have cheap reputation trait, doing 5k DPS to shield and requiring Drain Expertise only
On other hand I have expensive Starship Trait, not able to deal even 1k DPS, but requiring Drain Expertise, Exotic Particles, two different weapon types and and two different BOFF skills at good cooldowns...
I don't think so, my observations show while each weapon gives it a chance to proc, its a per-cycle proc (like everything else is now), I should get my combatlogs out to check but I cant find any with the proc in it from the ones I have on my computer.
... it does not work.
@crypticspartan#0627 any thought on this if Overwhelming Force is not living up to its tooltip?
For some reason i never tried that combo. Time for some testing.
How about if they take that away, they instead let the shockwave be added to dispersal pattern mines?
Pretty please?
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I don't know if they fixed it, but the standard High Yield produces an AoE burst. What was funny with grouped up ships was apparently the AoE also triggered the shockwave, meaning anything caught in the Torpedo's AoE ALSO gave off a shockwave.
Was it Advanced or Enhanced? Eh... its the set piece torp.
Right now it just feels like a lot of things are being suppressed purely because they will break the server or cause massive lag if allowed to reach full potential. We saw this with the Quantum Phase torp and also to some extend with KLW back in the day.
Problem with OF is not strictly bug-related or lag-related. OF was based on two under performing SCI abilities - CPB and Photonic Shockwave. Because OF was using weaker variant of these abilities, "normal" use of this trait was always terrible option. Fortunately, there was an exploit allowing ALL destructible torps to trigger Photonic Shockwave, which gave OF some use in very specific builds.
"Pure" OF was F Trait, only use of HyperPlasma, specific dedicated build, and specific tactic, gave this trait C-/C rating.
Few months later both CPB and PH recived massive buffs - a lot more damage, additional resistance reductions. None of these buffs was applied to OF, but hey, we still had our C- hyperplasma exploit, so who cares of completely underpowered trait?
Then suddenly... exploit was fixed. And we have current state of Overwhelming Force Trait - useless, underpowered, unusable.
On the good side, Trait doesn't need general rework to be worth using. Anything, from giving it 66%-75% functionality of current form of CPB/PV (including resistance debuff) to significant damage boost will make it usable.
I really like general concept of this trait, all we need are these awesome FX to be followed by acceptable damage values.