Analysis of what's gone wrong doesn't mean what you think it does-if we don't acknowledge (at minimum among our own numbers) what's gone wrong and why, then things will only continue to get worse.
NO problem has ever been solved by pretending it didn't exist.
Who is "pretending" the problems doesn't exist? Or are players wanting it to be ignored? Matter of fact, may be hiding it?
and the number of people that have offered solutions around here, well, even I've done it a few times, so have others-offering a solution in principle isn't quite the same as implementation, or being able to offer a plan of implementation.
Obviously, that course of action isn't working.
I am thinking part of it is: No one wants to share everything...or "give away trade secrets", so to speak. It would limit their "fun".
Even though, according to you, fun in PvP is the close matches. You can't get there by hiding "things" from each other and from the Devs.
I am pretty sure if something was "broken" people would not be willing to share it with Devs...because they don't want their "advantage" "taken away" by a fix. (Which is the same mind set the PvE players have, btw.)
1. Negative Population Growth. More PvP'ers are leaving, than joining, the steps taken by @crypticspartan#0627 were a good start, and we saw a few old hands come back-for a while, but the barrier to entry is still high, the ability to 'market' the activity is still hampered, and we've still got some problems in getting things to where a newbie can enter the activity and not immediately give up once they see the depth and costs of investment to even be remotely viable. Without new blood, there's no 'next generation' of Great and memorable players.
STO has a negative population growth....pretty much everywhere. That is the Devs fault.
The Devs have made it an overwhelming task to keep up with this game.
New specializations, new gear and traits and kit modules from Lock boxes, Rep, and Events...which seem to be added in a constant stream.
The "casuals" you are pining to join PvP, don't have the time to go "hunting for clues" nor for "benchmark testing" the volume of stuff out there. If they can access it at all. Ever.
So, there is a huge gap in KNOWLEDGE, you are not even addressing.
Yes, the fact that remains the items that are relatively easy to acquire will never compete with the stuff they SELL. Because: novelty doesn't sell. And Cryptic wants to sell...not make a good experience for their players. They made the upgrading system WAY too random and "expensive".
So, right from the start, F2P and Casuals, even though they may have time to run an event once in a while...won't be able to access the same quality of items as players who has the money to buy or time to grind currency. It will take some folks miles and miles further out.
Therefore, I don't think this is the group you need to aim for. You are setting your sights way too low.
You need to get those folks who already have all these upgrades and have all the traits, bought all their rare DOFFs as they worked on their "high DPS builds". They already analysed their traits, specializations and skills.
I don't believe anyone is reaching out to those folks that is disenchanted with "DPS chasing". You know, they don't have anything left to do but PvP. Let them see there is someplace that would be more of a challenge for them. (I think this is why the Devs came up with the "Competitive" queues)
Guess what this means? Talking to them, like they are real people. Both sides, probably need to do this. Instead of bullying or "smack talking" them before you even get to know them.
And the Devs need to make an effort to get on YOUR good side, Patrickngo....because you have a tendency to repeat the history of all the negatives out on the Forums. That breaks communications down, too.
2. Decay inside the remaining community. when was the last time someone posted up an 'open' tournament? we used to have those on weekly basis, but not now. The PvP community itself has become insular and inactive in that order. this doesn't build interest, it does the exact opposite.
I did see that someone is trying to resurrect "PvP Boot Camp" on the PC. Though, I am not sure how that is going...since I haven't seen a dang thing in these Forums about it. PvP Boot Camp for STO not being posted at all in the forum itself?
So, you are correct in the assessment that no one is talking to each other any more.
if there's no risk of being defeated, there's no point to PvP.
The Pvp matches players remember and talk about (in positive terms) are always the close fought matches, where it's a nailbiter from the first roll in, to the final score, and that score, in those matches, is 14/15 space and 49/50 in ground.
It's the 'emotional payoff' or the thrill. a constant stream of faceroll and you might as well be running PvE's on Normal (if you're winning), or you might as well walk off to a game that can GIVE you that tight, close fight (if you're on the side that's always losing).
and you don't get that from matches where nobody can kill each other, either.
which is the core of the retention problem in the community, and in turn, the negative population growth the PvP community's been experiencing for the last four years.
So, there is no point to PvP in STO. ????
So, that is??? What?!?!?
Why are you fighting so hard to keep it?
Just for the "Glory Days"?
You don't have the answers to fix this....you only have your memories.
The way to fix it lies in what the OP is trying to do...which is continue working on his PvP game.
And figure out the tricks. And, frankly, at this point, I am almost hoping he finds something that is broken.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Cryptic needs to separate PvP gear from PvE gear. They need to prevent players from stacking 5 universal consoles and running around with no hull boosting consoles and still be invincible. The specialisation tree should be reduced in effectiveness by 50% as well as all traits and sets.
At the moment players can devote every console every type of gear into attack power and ignore defence because their traits and spec trees do the work for them. That is the definition of overpowered. All the advantages with no consequences.
Ships need to be slowed down too. Escorts have been silly fast for 4 years now. Torpedoes can't even keep up. Speaking of which. A clean, direct to hull torpedo hit with HY3 buffed by attack patterns would obliterate an escort and cripple a cruiser in between buffs. Now it does nothing.
Cryptic needs to separate PvP gear from PvE gear. They need to prevent players from stacking 5 universal consoles and running around with no hull boosting consoles and still be invincible.
The specialisation tree should be reduced in effectiveness by 50% as well as all traits and sets.
At the moment players can devote every console every type of gear into attack power and ignore defence because their traits and spec trees do the work for them.
That is the definition of overpowered. All the advantages with no consequences.
Ships need to be slowed down too. Escorts have been silly fast for 4 years now. Torpedoes can't even keep up.
Speaking of which. A clean, direct to hull torpedo hit with HY3 buffed by attack patterns would obliterate an escort and cripple a cruiser in between buffs. Now it does nothing.
So..I dont think upper end PVPer's are Putting "every console into attack power and ignoring defense..Thats something I've seen that be a thing when PVE builds are in the final room in Core assault (or brought into a PVP)..Granted I run 6 Universals..But 3 are a part of set bonuses on my Sci ship..:P
So those "Silly fast escorts" are at like 200% defense according to SAB in my last group PVP..Speed is pretty much THE thing to keep you alive against those zippy guys (That and a good healer)..My absolute max speed in around 250-280 impulse on the Wells (Continuous Combat speed is less) and that only brings me to 110% Defense...
Yes I understand that, but I can quite often keep up with pilot ships on my t5u Defiant, phantom and valiant. But I still get taken out. It's due to the combination of immunities, temporal spec and traits.
Cryptic needs to grow a pair, split PvP and PvE and create separate stats so that it becomes less about the gear and more about the player. Hopefully that'll bring down the huge pay wall and learning cliff that plagues PvP.
I get taken out too...But I also know that level of skill between me vs Sob, T'arget,Blood and others is higher due to the choice is ship and just how they perform..Guys at that level arent using Temp spec (I am cuz i fly a sci ship)..They are using Pilot Spec as a primary. (You really should see some of the shield scraping numbers ive seen)..1 v 1 is a slightly different set up vs 5 on 5..
Rejoice!! Most players in Core Assault arent up to that level of difficulty and where a majority of PVE builds live..They dont know how to set up their traits for defense, They think Zhal will save them (sub nuke that bad boy right off or have someone else focus fire em after it posts), Temp specs heal is like a 2 min version of Miracle worker and is better suited for ships using Dots and Epg,they have ships set up for Damage without a thought to defense or survivablity...PVP is an choice..(Except in Core assault).
I do my best to educate players when they challenge me with what they thought was dangerous , but got reduced to ash.Sob just did a video on PVP and Ill start pointing players there (skill wise I cant compete in my sci boat) to learn some of the basics. Anyone who challenges me in a sci ship..I help them out with their build or...point em in the right directions (cuz theres really no cookie cutter builds in pvp)...Maybe while your out there,you can do the same?
Hello,
There is something wrong with balancing
Sci are permanent Immune and then the almost every hit!
In the skill tree is read 25% can not be cleared.
That would then be called 100% Defense is the cap
So I have 60% accuracy, but felt 10% against some
That's not normal !!!!!!
Wow... you have issues against someone with 100 defense? Hope you never encounter me then coz 100 defense is low
You TOO fasss (fast :P)
You probably don't realize that you have a stationary defense rating and a movement defense rating. What I am talking about here is the defense that is passively on your character from trees, traits and gear before any abilities or procs that need to be activated. There is a misconception that the faster your full thruster speed without buffs that activate, the higher your defense rating is. This is completely incorrect.
Your standing defense rating will change to your max passive defense rating at around 25%-35% (can't remember the exact figure) thruster speed. So if your hit rate against me is only 30-40% when I am at full thrusters, it will be exactly the same if I am at 40-50% thrusters.
if there's no risk of being defeated, there's no point to PvP.
The Pvp matches players remember and talk about (in positive terms) are always the close fought matches, where it's a nailbiter from the first roll in, to the final score, and that score, in those matches, is 14/15 space and 49/50 in ground.
It's the 'emotional payoff' or the thrill. a constant stream of faceroll and you might as well be running PvE's on Normal (if you're winning), or you might as well walk off to a game that can GIVE you that tight, close fight (if you're on the side that's always losing).
and you don't get that from matches where nobody can kill each other, either.
which is the core of the retention problem in the community, and in turn, the negative population growth the PvP community's been experiencing for the last four years.
I thought you would have been around long enough now to realize that every player can be defeated. But I do agree with you that the close fought matches that go for an hour are epic and very exciting.
tbh, I don't think the Devs need to get on my 'good side'-or at least, they don't need to make any special effort to do it. as critical as I've been, there are members of the team that 'get it'-like @crypticspartan#0627 , Tacofangs, and @crypticjoejing.
When they get it right, I DO make an effort to say so, and underline it.
But on the Meta-level, my opinions really don't count for much, because Geko's strategy has largely worked. This game's beaten the average, it's gotten past the first five years and it's still commercially viable.
I want to say at the outset, this isn't a finger pointing exercise. Cryptic are a business and I am a customer - keep that in mind as you read this
So who's idea was it to fix the major game mechanics that were left broken or not WAI due to new content taking priority and that new content having broken or not WAI mechanics over the past 5 years in one big massive rebalance patch?
Lead Designer -Geko? (My guess)
Who is responsible for allowing the game to get into that state in the first place? Instead of not getting it right the first time (which is nearly impossible in a complex system like a MMO) or not having robust processes to catch bugs and defects at the development, internal and external QA stage.
Lead Designer - Geko again? (My guess again)
Although this is a gut instinct as I have no evidence to support it, I believe something forced their hand to make so many changes to fix years of neglect and poor management in one go. If I were a betting man, I would say it has something to do with STO Console. Which is fine, it is a new source for revenue which we all hope adds to the longevity of the game. But my point is, that they should have been in this position in the first place and someone is ultimately responsible for that.
You said this:-
But on the Meta-level, my opinions really don't count for much, because Geko's strategy has largely worked. This game's beaten the average, it's gotten past the first five years and it's still commercially viable.
In one sense, you are absolutely right. Star Trek Online has beaten the average and there are not many MMOs out there at this age still with this much developer activity. Again, STO console would have significantly contributed to this and if Geko was leading the charge for the game into console then yes, that is a strategy that benefited the game. However, I suspect things have finally caught up with Cryptic. I say this for two reasons - what I have observed ie: anecdotal evidence and Cryptic's recent marketing activity.
Firstly, the anecdotal evidence. The number of online friends in my friends list has fallen about 30-35% since the space balance pass patch. I have asked other players that I know very well to guesstimate their drop (if any) and I got back figures from 20%-50%. So taking the lowest number as an example, regardless of how you look at it if that translates across the entire game losing 1 in 5 players if significant. If the figure is on the side of heading towards 40-50% that is simply devastating.
Other evidence is that key prices on the Exchange have fallen since the balance pass by as much as 30% due to lower demand. A logical conclusion is less players being a key cause of that lower demand.
Secondly, the recent Cryptic marketing behavior. Within a few weeks of the balance pass going live Cryptic have been in sale mode. The Amarie promo ship, the multiple Zen purchase discounts and Zen purchase of keys, multiple eDM campaigns with offers to long absent players just to name a few. The gap between retail campaigns has shrunk in this quarter and that can only mean one thing. They are behind their revenue budget and I wouldn't think retailing to a smaller pool of customer is helping matters.
Also, I don't recall this happening in previous years (correct me if I'm wrong) but they are launching a new season and lockbox before the end of the Risa summer event. I recall there been a gap of a week or so in past years.
All this suggests there are issues at Cryptic meeting their business objectives. And if I am only partially right (something which I will never truly know) then this is because of Geko's strategy failures in not developing or maintaining the game properly. We got our first glimpse of that 2 years ago when the game suffered from really poor server performance for nearly 9 months and less than a year after fixing that, the sins of the past seems to have caught up with Cryptic again.
Someone needs to be held accountable for this and things need to change at Cryptic because of it. I want to be playing this game and enjoying it when it has it's tenth birthday. I'm sure I'm not the only STO fan that feels the same way.
Foolish behavior is when one does the same thing over and over again and expects different results
Cryptic needs to separate PvP gear from PvE gear. They need to prevent players from stacking 5 universal consoles and running around with no hull boosting consoles and still be invincible.
The specialisation tree should be reduced in effectiveness by 50% as well as all traits and sets.
At the moment players can devote every console every type of gear into attack power and ignore defence because their traits and spec trees do the work for them.
That is the definition of overpowered. All the advantages with no consequences.
You must be playing a different PVP game than I am. I would be surprised if many escorts out there running 5 tac consoles with no defense consoles would able to survive easily. I have to devote at over half my escort build to defense in place of offense just to survive. I have found a sweet spot on my build so that the trait, trees, gear, boffs and doffs work well together to enable me to survive. Otherwise, I would be vulnerable to torp boats and Proton console boats.
Ships need to be slowed down too. Escorts have been silly fast for 4 years now. Torpedoes can't even keep up.
Speaking of which. A clean, direct to hull torpedo hit with HY3 buffed by attack patterns would obliterate an escort and cripple a cruiser in between buffs. Now it does nothing.
If that was happening while shields were still up then that was broken.
An escort should be able to outrun torpedoes since torps are just projectiles with limited propulsion. If a ship has the speed to exceed that, then that is part of that ships defensive strategy and if you want to keep using torpedoes, then it would be your job to find a counter for that speed.
Why must PvP have power creep and large level based advantages? Why must it be pidegon holed into a arena style "battle in a bottle"?
Open combat theaters allow players to come and go as they see fit, find pursue a multitude of defined objectives and fill dynamic roles on the battlefield. It provides players the option to leave and seek new combat areas and objectives if they deem the current battlefield too challenging or too disadvantageous....instead of stewing in a closed arena, forced to be punching bag or exit and have to eat the time wasted in queue, in match and in queue again.
Whatever rewards could be calculated on the fly instead requiring a match end.
Once the battlefield's victory conditions have been met, close it down for a period, then reset it and open it again later.
The over insistence on eSport style play is destructive to PvP mass appeal.
I am glad you have watched it and I hope you got something out of it.
Snipey47a
Many people talk offensive/DPS in the builds groups. It is not often I learn about defense.
I will get plenty out of it. After I go over it a couple more times. Thank you for taking the time.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I am glad you have watched it and I hope you got something out of it.
Snipey47a
Many people talk offensive/DPS in the builds groups. It is not often I learn about defense.
I will get plenty out of it. After I go over it a couple more times. Thank you for taking the time.
I watched the vid..I musta missed something on his defense..but Im applying it to my Temporal Destroyer (yea yea..not as optimal as the bug ship or manasa..)
I am glad you have watched it and I hope you got something out of it.
Snipey47a
Many people talk offensive/DPS in the builds groups. It is not often I learn about defense.
I will get plenty out of it. After I go over it a couple more times. Thank you for taking the time.
I watched the vid..I musta missed something on his defense..but Im applying it to my Temporal Destroyer (yea yea..not as optimal as the bug ship or manasa..)
Additionally, I am not playing at your level, anyways. So, tiny changes help me out.
And understanding how the higher level players are doing things is important...even if I do not have access to it. Because, eventually, "something" will be released that is similar that I will. But if I don't know about it....well...that is not good.
Post edited by where2r1 on
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I am glad you have watched it and I hope you got something out of it.
Snipey47a
Many people talk offensive/DPS in the builds groups. It is not often I learn about defense.
I will get plenty out of it. After I go over it a couple more times. Thank you for taking the time.
I watched the vid..I musta missed something on his defense..but Im applying it to my Temporal Destroyer (yea yea..not as optimal as the bug ship or manasa..)
Well...I looked over the video, once. Got hung up on some other things yesterday. I will have to check it out a bit better.
But, basically, yeah, you must be totally missing something. I think Snipey is beating you with DEFENSE.
Now, I have not bothered to study all the Specializations and I never buy any new ships and don't bother learning all the new traits and stuff.....not familiar with consoles or sets etc...
But you mean to tell me the Devs didn't make stuff that strips away the other player's hull and resistance and hit points and TRIBBLE like that???
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I am glad you have watched it and I hope you got something out of it.
Snipey47a
Many people talk offensive/DPS in the builds groups. It is not often I learn about defense.
I will get plenty out of it. After I go over it a couple more times. Thank you for taking the time.
I watched the vid..I musta missed something on his defense..but Im applying it to my Temporal Destroyer (yea yea..not as optimal as the bug ship or manasa..)
Well...I looked over the video, once. Got hung up on some other things yesterday. I will have to check it out a bit better.
But, basically, yeah, you must be totally missing something. I think Snipey is beating you with DEFENSE.
Now, I have not bothered to study all the Specializations and I never buy any new ships and don't bother learning all the new traits and stuff.....not familiar with consoles or sets etc...
But you mean to tell me the Devs didn't make stuff that strips away the other player's hull and resistance and hit points and **** like that???
Oh heh..Ive not PVPed Snipey..Ive been able to understand what made up (with in) 20-24 of his base/resting defense of 70.. That Dominion 3 peice is awesome for a defense boost..
So if you've seen SOBs and Snipeys builds I believe one or both use a doff (I forget the name) to remove debuffs on emergency power abilities and then theres the Iconian shields..My best (after this vid) *while moving* is like 140% defense, and that is only for short periods in my sci ships..Cool part with Sci ships..is I dont need Accuracy to hit someone like him due to how sci abilities work...
However..Testing my destroyer..I..need more a lot more practice..I barely killed 2 players that woulda been easy in my sci ships when I switched to my All cannon Destroyer..I do have a Manasa..maybe I should switch to that..
Well...the point is: it doesn't matter the ship you fly.
And changing the ship won't make a difference.
Practice, practice, practice and playing with changing gear/traits, trying different combinations...etc...
will keep you occupied, and improve performance in the end.
Then, you can take what is learned and see the difference a new ship makes.
Otherwise, it is just a shell.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Well...the point is: it doesn't matter the ship you fly.
And changing the ship won't make a difference.
Practice, practice, practice and playing with changing gear/traits, trying different combinations...etc...
will keep you occupied, and improve performance in the end.
Then, you can take what is learned and see the difference a new ship makes.
Otherwise, it is just a shell.
SO ..to be totally honest..I did a 5v5 with SOB and Co..I just wanted to see how much skill was involved running a zippy escort like they do vs my High speed sci ship...
Wow..go forth and be bold Sci guy. Meantime, I am debating signing on to trade in Risa birds. Or just skip the game all together...my usual MO on season update patch day.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm just a dirty little sci-vaper flying a Temporal Raider and spamming Protonic misery. It feels "wrong" to kill without firing a "shot" (well, a couple of unbuffed torps), so I'll now crawl into my dark, dusty corner and flagellate myself a while.
I'm just a dirty little sci-vaper flying a Temporal Raider and spamming Protonic misery. It feels "wrong" to kill without firing a "shot" (well, a couple of unbuffed torps), so I'll now crawl into my dark, dusty corner and flagellate myself a while.
RCK - a.k.a. "Evul Jacob"
Uh....let me guess....has a cloak?
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm just a dirty little sci-vaper flying a Temporal Raider and spamming Protonic misery. It feels "wrong" to kill without firing a "shot" (well, a couple of unbuffed torps), so I'll now crawl into my dark, dusty corner and flagellate myself a while.
You're a braver soul than I! Whenever I trot out my long suffering R'Mor I end up as cannon fodder (literally - the CRF kind). Without the full temporal set (or whatever procs the "bubble" during backstep - Tipler + Manheim?), and with my unwillingness to plunk down even more hard earned cash for Shield Overload, it's just not a competitive ship - a least during PvP matches.
Speed + Stealth = My only viable play style these days.
Comments
Who is "pretending" the problems doesn't exist? Or are players wanting it to be ignored? Matter of fact, may be hiding it?
Obviously, that course of action isn't working.
I am thinking part of it is: No one wants to share everything...or "give away trade secrets", so to speak. It would limit their "fun".
Even though, according to you, fun in PvP is the close matches. You can't get there by hiding "things" from each other and from the Devs.
I am pretty sure if something was "broken" people would not be willing to share it with Devs...because they don't want their "advantage" "taken away" by a fix. (Which is the same mind set the PvE players have, btw.)
STO has a negative population growth....pretty much everywhere. That is the Devs fault.
The Devs have made it an overwhelming task to keep up with this game.
New specializations, new gear and traits and kit modules from Lock boxes, Rep, and Events...which seem to be added in a constant stream.
The "casuals" you are pining to join PvP, don't have the time to go "hunting for clues" nor for "benchmark testing" the volume of stuff out there. If they can access it at all. Ever.
So, there is a huge gap in KNOWLEDGE, you are not even addressing.
Yes, the fact that remains the items that are relatively easy to acquire will never compete with the stuff they SELL. Because: novelty doesn't sell. And Cryptic wants to sell...not make a good experience for their players. They made the upgrading system WAY too random and "expensive".
So, right from the start, F2P and Casuals, even though they may have time to run an event once in a while...won't be able to access the same quality of items as players who has the money to buy or time to grind currency. It will take some folks miles and miles further out.
Therefore, I don't think this is the group you need to aim for. You are setting your sights way too low.
You need to get those folks who already have all these upgrades and have all the traits, bought all their rare DOFFs as they worked on their "high DPS builds". They already analysed their traits, specializations and skills.
I don't believe anyone is reaching out to those folks that is disenchanted with "DPS chasing". You know, they don't have anything left to do but PvP. Let them see there is someplace that would be more of a challenge for them. (I think this is why the Devs came up with the "Competitive" queues)
Guess what this means? Talking to them, like they are real people. Both sides, probably need to do this. Instead of bullying or "smack talking" them before you even get to know them.
And the Devs need to make an effort to get on YOUR good side, Patrickngo....because you have a tendency to repeat the history of all the negatives out on the Forums. That breaks communications down, too.
I did see that someone is trying to resurrect "PvP Boot Camp" on the PC. Though, I am not sure how that is going...since I haven't seen a dang thing in these Forums about it. PvP Boot Camp for STO not being posted at all in the forum itself?
So, you are correct in the assessment that no one is talking to each other any more.
++++++++++++++++++
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
The specialisation tree should be reduced in effectiveness by 50% as well as all traits and sets.
At the moment players can devote every console every type of gear into attack power and ignore defence because their traits and spec trees do the work for them.
That is the definition of overpowered. All the advantages with no consequences.
Ships need to be slowed down too. Escorts have been silly fast for 4 years now. Torpedoes can't even keep up.
Speaking of which. A clean, direct to hull torpedo hit with HY3 buffed by attack patterns would obliterate an escort and cripple a cruiser in between buffs. Now it does nothing.
So..I dont think upper end PVPer's are Putting "every console into attack power and ignoring defense..Thats something I've seen that be a thing when PVE builds are in the final room in Core assault (or brought into a PVP)..Granted I run 6 Universals..But 3 are a part of set bonuses on my Sci ship..:P
So those "Silly fast escorts" are at like 200% defense according to SAB in my last group PVP..Speed is pretty much THE thing to keep you alive against those zippy guys (That and a good healer)..My absolute max speed in around 250-280 impulse on the Wells (Continuous Combat speed is less) and that only brings me to 110% Defense...
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
It's due to the combination of immunities, temporal spec and traits.
Cryptic needs to grow a pair, split PvP and PvE and create separate stats so that it becomes less about the gear and more about the player. Hopefully that'll bring down the huge pay wall and learning cliff that plagues PvP.
Rejoice!! Most players in Core Assault arent up to that level of difficulty and where a majority of PVE builds live..They dont know how to set up their traits for defense, They think Zhal will save them (sub nuke that bad boy right off or have someone else focus fire em after it posts), Temp specs heal is like a 2 min version of Miracle worker and is better suited for ships using Dots and Epg,they have ships set up for Damage without a thought to defense or survivablity...PVP is an choice..(Except in Core assault).
I do my best to educate players when they challenge me with what they thought was dangerous , but got reduced to ash.Sob just did a video on PVP and Ill start pointing players there (skill wise I cant compete in my sci boat) to learn some of the basics. Anyone who challenges me in a sci ship..I help them out with their build or...point em in the right directions (cuz theres really no cookie cutter builds in pvp)...Maybe while your out there,you can do the same?
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Thanks @snipey47a for posting the video on You Tube and sharing your PvP escort.
Trek Citizen Gaming....
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLNhSo8riwYOajqeHAI1Z2g
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
You probably don't realize that you have a stationary defense rating and a movement defense rating. What I am talking about here is the defense that is passively on your character from trees, traits and gear before any abilities or procs that need to be activated. There is a misconception that the faster your full thruster speed without buffs that activate, the higher your defense rating is. This is completely incorrect.
Your standing defense rating will change to your max passive defense rating at around 25%-35% (can't remember the exact figure) thruster speed. So if your hit rate against me is only 30-40% when I am at full thrusters, it will be exactly the same if I am at 40-50% thrusters.
Snipey47a
I thought you would have been around long enough now to realize that every player can be defeated. But I do agree with you that the close fought matches that go for an hour are epic and very exciting.
I want to say at the outset, this isn't a finger pointing exercise. Cryptic are a business and I am a customer - keep that in mind as you read this
So who's idea was it to fix the major game mechanics that were left broken or not WAI due to new content taking priority and that new content having broken or not WAI mechanics over the past 5 years in one big massive rebalance patch?
Lead Designer -Geko? (My guess)
Who is responsible for allowing the game to get into that state in the first place? Instead of not getting it right the first time (which is nearly impossible in a complex system like a MMO) or not having robust processes to catch bugs and defects at the development, internal and external QA stage.
Lead Designer - Geko again? (My guess again)
Although this is a gut instinct as I have no evidence to support it, I believe something forced their hand to make so many changes to fix years of neglect and poor management in one go. If I were a betting man, I would say it has something to do with STO Console. Which is fine, it is a new source for revenue which we all hope adds to the longevity of the game. But my point is, that they should have been in this position in the first place and someone is ultimately responsible for that.
You said this:-
In one sense, you are absolutely right. Star Trek Online has beaten the average and there are not many MMOs out there at this age still with this much developer activity. Again, STO console would have significantly contributed to this and if Geko was leading the charge for the game into console then yes, that is a strategy that benefited the game. However, I suspect things have finally caught up with Cryptic. I say this for two reasons - what I have observed ie: anecdotal evidence and Cryptic's recent marketing activity.
Firstly, the anecdotal evidence. The number of online friends in my friends list has fallen about 30-35% since the space balance pass patch. I have asked other players that I know very well to guesstimate their drop (if any) and I got back figures from 20%-50%. So taking the lowest number as an example, regardless of how you look at it if that translates across the entire game losing 1 in 5 players if significant. If the figure is on the side of heading towards 40-50% that is simply devastating.
Other evidence is that key prices on the Exchange have fallen since the balance pass by as much as 30% due to lower demand. A logical conclusion is less players being a key cause of that lower demand.
Secondly, the recent Cryptic marketing behavior. Within a few weeks of the balance pass going live Cryptic have been in sale mode. The Amarie promo ship, the multiple Zen purchase discounts and Zen purchase of keys, multiple eDM campaigns with offers to long absent players just to name a few. The gap between retail campaigns has shrunk in this quarter and that can only mean one thing. They are behind their revenue budget and I wouldn't think retailing to a smaller pool of customer is helping matters.
Also, I don't recall this happening in previous years (correct me if I'm wrong) but they are launching a new season and lockbox before the end of the Risa summer event. I recall there been a gap of a week or so in past years.
All this suggests there are issues at Cryptic meeting their business objectives. And if I am only partially right (something which I will never truly know) then this is because of Geko's strategy failures in not developing or maintaining the game properly. We got our first glimpse of that 2 years ago when the game suffered from really poor server performance for nearly 9 months and less than a year after fixing that, the sins of the past seems to have caught up with Cryptic again.
Someone needs to be held accountable for this and things need to change at Cryptic because of it. I want to be playing this game and enjoying it when it has it's tenth birthday. I'm sure I'm not the only STO fan that feels the same way.
Foolish behavior is when one does the same thing over and over again and expects different results
/drops mic
Snipey47a
You must be playing a different PVP game than I am. I would be surprised if many escorts out there running 5 tac consoles with no defense consoles would able to survive easily. I have to devote at over half my escort build to defense in place of offense just to survive. I have found a sweet spot on my build so that the trait, trees, gear, boffs and doffs work well together to enable me to survive. Otherwise, I would be vulnerable to torp boats and Proton console boats.
If that was happening while shields were still up then that was broken.
An escort should be able to outrun torpedoes since torps are just projectiles with limited propulsion. If a ship has the speed to exceed that, then that is part of that ships defensive strategy and if you want to keep using torpedoes, then it would be your job to find a counter for that speed.
I am glad you have watched it and I hope you got something out of it.
Snipey47a
Open combat theaters allow players to come and go as they see fit, find pursue a multitude of defined objectives and fill dynamic roles on the battlefield. It provides players the option to leave and seek new combat areas and objectives if they deem the current battlefield too challenging or too disadvantageous....instead of stewing in a closed arena, forced to be punching bag or exit and have to eat the time wasted in queue, in match and in queue again.
Whatever rewards could be calculated on the fly instead requiring a match end.
Once the battlefield's victory conditions have been met, close it down for a period, then reset it and open it again later.
The over insistence on eSport style play is destructive to PvP mass appeal.
Many people talk offensive/DPS in the builds groups. It is not often I learn about defense.
I will get plenty out of it. After I go over it a couple more times. Thank you for taking the time.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I watched the vid..I musta missed something on his defense..but Im applying it to my Temporal Destroyer (yea yea..not as optimal as the bug ship or manasa..)
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Yeah, and I subscribed to that SOB guy's You Tube channel, too.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrNSp1ex_ZNgLQEogSRqpCw
Additionally, I am not playing at your level, anyways. So, tiny changes help me out.
And understanding how the higher level players are doing things is important...even if I do not have access to it. Because, eventually, "something" will be released that is similar that I will. But if I don't know about it....well...that is not good.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Well...I looked over the video, once. Got hung up on some other things yesterday. I will have to check it out a bit better.
But, basically, yeah, you must be totally missing something. I think Snipey is beating you with DEFENSE.
Now, I have not bothered to study all the Specializations and I never buy any new ships and don't bother learning all the new traits and stuff.....not familiar with consoles or sets etc...
But you mean to tell me the Devs didn't make stuff that strips away the other player's hull and resistance and hit points and TRIBBLE like that???
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Oh heh..Ive not PVPed Snipey..Ive been able to understand what made up (with in) 20-24 of his base/resting defense of 70.. That Dominion 3 peice is awesome for a defense boost..
So if you've seen SOBs and Snipeys builds I believe one or both use a doff (I forget the name) to remove debuffs on emergency power abilities and then theres the Iconian shields..My best (after this vid) *while moving* is like 140% defense, and that is only for short periods in my sci ships..Cool part with Sci ships..is I dont need Accuracy to hit someone like him due to how sci abilities work...
However..Testing my destroyer..I..need more a lot more practice..I barely killed 2 players that woulda been easy in my sci ships when I switched to my All cannon Destroyer..I do have a Manasa..maybe I should switch to that..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
I like my BoPs. I been wanting one for a long time, bought my Kor a while ago and have not changed out of it for years.
I only recently got a pilot raptor set. I still do not feel like switching...though I probably will since it did cost me $40.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
And changing the ship won't make a difference.
Practice, practice, practice and playing with changing gear/traits, trying different combinations...etc...
will keep you occupied, and improve performance in the end.
Then, you can take what is learned and see the difference a new ship makes.
Otherwise, it is just a shell.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
SO ..to be totally honest..I did a 5v5 with SOB and Co..I just wanted to see how much skill was involved running a zippy escort like they do vs my High speed sci ship...
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
RCK - a.k.a. "Evul Jacob"
Uh....let me guess....has a cloak?
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
LOL I still fly a Wells..
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
You're a braver soul than I! Whenever I trot out my long suffering R'Mor I end up as cannon fodder (literally - the CRF kind). Without the full temporal set (or whatever procs the "bubble" during backstep - Tipler + Manheim?), and with my unwillingness to plunk down even more hard earned cash for Shield Overload, it's just not a competitive ship - a least during PvP matches.
Speed + Stealth = My only viable play style these days.
RCK - a.k.a. "Evul Jacob"