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afk penalty is really starting to not make sense anymore

to perfect world you all think you could make the afk penalty be limited to pve mission specific then to do the one size shoe fits all concept i mean if i got to wait for 2 hrs before i can re enter a pve specific type of mission i am fine with that but to wait 2 hrs before i can go into another or other pve missions just does not make sense

the fleet mission that rewards fleet marks the lv 10 to lv 50 one and there is 5 waves you got to defend the starbase from i go in there at lv 19 trying to grab some lving up xp and fm and what do i see 2 persons that have there ships decked out what looks to be the max i see one shooting going on and that pve mission is done in under 10 mins hell maybe even 5

can a new pve mission system structure be forged that if persons go past a certain damage threshold that persons what that very high level of power be put into there own realm of pve so that way for all of us non godly types can still enjoy helping our fleets lv up and enjoy lving up ourselfs

it sucks that something that's not in my control and i get penalized for wanting to try and then get penalized again for not even having a chance to do anything
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    nccmarknccmark Member Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    [Unnecessary personal comment removed]

    AFK penalty works fine for most of us. Occasionally it doesn't, but that's rare. It works correctly more than it doesn't. It might need tweaking, but I would rather have it exactly like it is than not at all.
    Post edited by jodarkrider on
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    nccmark wrote: »
    #1: USE PUNCTUATION!

    #2: AFK penalty works fine for most of us. Occasionally it doesn't, but that's rare. It works correctly more than it doesn't. It might need tweaking, but I would rather have it exactly like it is than not at all.

    i never said getting rid of it and you godly type persons i am sure your fine with it because its an easy mode you don't want to get rid of when you don't have to work for much when after you have worked for that type of power of course your going to say such nonsense things

    [personal-jab-part of the post removed]
    Post edited by jodarkrider on
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    leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,356 Arc User
    nccmark wrote: »
    #1: USE PUNCTUATION!

    #2: AFK penalty works fine for most of us. Occasionally it doesn't, but that's rare. It works correctly more than it doesn't. It might need tweaking, but I would rather have it exactly like it is than not at all.

    i never said getting rid of it and you godly type persons i am sure your fine with it because its an easy mode you don't want to get rid of when you don't have to work for much when after you have worked for that type of power of course your going to say such nonsense things

    but you don't give a damn about others its all about you always has been always will be right?

    The AFK system isn't discouraging enough! It's there for a reason, and yes, people who AFK should suffer as big a penalty as possible to stop them from even thinking about it.

    As for your claim about the STF you got a ban for. I have a done it as a lvl 10 character, with lvl 60 players and never got a penalty. You need to rush at enemies and just blast as much. It's not hard to avoid the DPS based AFK system by doing as much as is possible!

    Lastly, and seriously, don't flame those that are giving advice, it never ends well!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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    saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,395 Arc User
    I still don't get how the AFK penalty even works.

    About a week ago, I went into a CCA as usual and by the time the loading screen was over, the entity was dead. Not sure if I ended up in an nearly finished instance or if there were insane levels of DPS, but nevertheless, I ended up doing absolutely nothing, not even activating Weapon System Efficiency or even closing the double speech window of Admiral Yanishev and I still got the rewards and no AFK penalty.
    #TASforSTO
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    leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,356 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    leemwatson wrote: »
    nccmark wrote: »
    #1: USE PUNCTUATION!

    #2: AFK penalty works fine for most of us. Occasionally it doesn't, but that's rare. It works correctly more than it doesn't. It might need tweaking, but I would rather have it exactly like it is than not at all.

    i never said getting rid of it and you godly type persons i am sure your fine with it because its an easy mode you don't want to get rid of when you don't have to work for much when after you have worked for that type of power of course your going to say such nonsense things

    but you don't give a damn about others its all about you always has been always will be right?

    The AFK system isn't discouraging enough! It's there for a reason, and yes, people who AFK should suffer as big a penalty as possible to stop them from even thinking about it.

    As for your claim about the STF you got a ban for. I have a done it as a lvl 10 character, with lvl 60 players and never got a penalty. You need to rush at enemies and just blast as much. It's not hard to avoid the DPS based AFK system by doing as much as is possible!

    Lastly, and seriously, don't flame those that are giving advice, it never ends well!
    well then consider yourself blessed then because at lv 19 that's what i did rushed and then after i took 2 shots at a ship i was working on which was not dead it got poped by the one shooter heros and that is not a rare thing for me it is rare for me to see fm and xp at all at this point but i do agree with you there has been a time i been in that map and i see 3 persons go afk and then we lost the mission so i am not disagreeing with you on that

    and i was active the whole time in the mission to as well as firing but at the very most i got one shot off before i seen the ship i was trying to work on which i might add was at full health poped

    now tell me how i am suppose to do anything when 2 persons got very high powered ap builds and they are not using skills to get the one shots off but just doing it through normal firing

    I use Fleet Alert all the time to level up new toons. Yes, I know exactly what I need to do, but the best advice I can give you is to not stray far from the base (so you can engage new incoming enemies quicker), and to equip an ability that hits for AoE damage such as Fire at will, Scatter shot, Torp Spread. As long as you land something, you'll be fine.

    Just because someone called you out for 'Punctuation', it doesn't give you them license to flame in return. It's against Forum rules and you're only giving the poster jollies that you actually reacted, which is what they wanted, and in return could end up with you getting the post shut down or yourself banned from the forums. This is friendly advice, ignore them and they have nothing nor gain anything.
    Post edited by jodarkrider on
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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    binkleyboy#3920 binkleyboy Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    Learn to embrace the penalty. After you do it kind of feels good.
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    kjwashingtonkjwashington Member Posts: 2,529 Arc User
    This is the problem with basing the AFK penalty on DPS. (Especially in a queue where people at max level with top rate gear are playing alongside low level people with garbage gear.) Some people have just min-maxed their ships to the point where if you haven't, you basically might as well have not showed up.

    I'm not saying get rid of the AFK system, but there's got to be a better way.
    FaW%20meme_zpsbkzfjonz.jpg
    Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    This is the problem with basing the AFK penalty on DPS. (Especially in a queue where people at max level with top rate gear are playing alongside low level people with garbage gear.) Some people have just min-maxed their ships to the point where if you haven't, you basically might as well have not showed up.

    I'm not saying get rid of the AFK system, but there's got to be a better way.
    i agree it does need to punish the ones that hate to work but it should also at the same time not punish persons that are active and that are trying to do something

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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    i don't want to have persons changed there builds because any build that can one shot most things i think is a very helpful build just when it comes to pve missions its when the rules start to change and they are not for the better
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    leemwatson wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    nccmark wrote: »
    #1: USE PUNCTUATION!

    #2: AFK penalty works fine for most of us. Occasionally it doesn't, but that's rare. It works correctly more than it doesn't. It might need tweaking, but I would rather have it exactly like it is than not at all.

    i never said getting rid of it and you godly type persons i am sure your fine with it because its an easy mode you don't want to get rid of when you don't have to work for much when after you have worked for that type of power of course your going to say such nonsense things

    but you don't give a damn about others its all about you always has been always will be right?

    The AFK system isn't discouraging enough! It's there for a reason, and yes, people who AFK should suffer as big a penalty as possible to stop them from even thinking about it.

    As for your claim about the STF you got a ban for. I have a done it as a lvl 10 character, with lvl 60 players and never got a penalty. You need to rush at enemies and just blast as much. It's not hard to avoid the DPS based AFK system by doing as much as is possible!

    Lastly, and seriously, don't flame those that are giving advice, it never ends well!
    well then consider yourself blessed then because at lv 19 that's what i did rushed and then after i took 2 shots at a ship i was working on which was not dead it got poped by the one shooter heros and that is not a rare thing for me it is rare for me to see fm and xp at all at this point but i do agree with you there has been a time i been in that map and i see 3 persons go afk and then we lost the mission so i am not disagreeing with you on that

    and i was active the whole time in the mission to as well as firing but at the very most i got one shot off before i seen the ship i was trying to work on which i might add was at full health poped

    now tell me how i am suppose to do anything when 2 persons got very high powered ap builds and they are not using skills to get the one shots off but just doing it through normal firing

    I use Fleet Alert all the time to level up new toons. Yes, I know exactly what I need to do, but the best advice I can give you is to not stray far from the base (so you can engage new incoming enemies quicker), and to equip an ability that hits for AoE damage such as Fire at will, Scatter shot, Torp Spread. As long as you land something, you'll be fine.

    Just because someone called you out for 'Punctuation', it doesn't give you them license to flame in return. It's against Forum rules and you're only giving the poster jollies that you actually reacted, which is what they wanted, and in return could end up with you getting the post shut down or yourself banned from the forums. This is friendly advice, ignore them and they have nothing nor gain anything.
    as for the grammar policing idea i have no problems repeating myself how every many times it has to take when i say that anyone that has to use that idea is not wanting to argue and take a easy way out of trying to win a argument

    i do not plan to be politically correct and that grammar policing idea is from a politically correct position point of view

    i write my post's as i see fit and if its not normal oh well i am not going to be held to the standard borg collective group think nonsense idea

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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,355 Community Moderator
    edited April 2017
    OK, folks. Let's keep it friendly.
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    You don't have to be PC to like comprehensible English, which may mean correct punctuation and grammar.

    Deeming common standards of communication 'standard borg collective group think nonsense' is absurd. If we don't have some sort of agreement about meaning then we lose the ability to communicate. Take the issue of double negatives for instance, is it a matter of emphasis, or a matter of negation? A statement using a double negative conveys contradictory meanings. Picard is not no coward can mean both that Picard is very brave (not no = emphasis), and that Picard is a coward (not no = negated).
    leemwatson wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    nccmark wrote: »
    #1: USE PUNCTUATION!

    #2: AFK penalty works fine for most of us. Occasionally it doesn't, but that's rare. It works correctly more than it doesn't. It might need tweaking, but I would rather have it exactly like it is than not at all.

    i never said getting rid of it and you godly type persons i am sure your fine with it because its an easy mode you don't want to get rid of when you don't have to work for much when after you have worked for that type of power of course your going to say such nonsense things

    but you don't give a damn about others its all about you always has been always will be right?

    The AFK system isn't discouraging enough! It's there for a reason, and yes, people who AFK should suffer as big a penalty as possible to stop them from even thinking about it.

    As for your claim about the STF you got a ban for. I have a done it as a lvl 10 character, with lvl 60 players and never got a penalty. You need to rush at enemies and just blast as much. It's not hard to avoid the DPS based AFK system by doing as much as is possible!

    Lastly, and seriously, don't flame those that are giving advice, it never ends well!
    well then consider yourself blessed then because at lv 19 that's what i did rushed and then after i took 2 shots at a ship i was working on which was not dead it got poped by the one shooter heros and that is not a rare thing for me it is rare for me to see fm and xp at all at this point but i do agree with you there has been a time i been in that map and i see 3 persons go afk and then we lost the mission so i am not disagreeing with you on that

    and i was active the whole time in the mission to as well as firing but at the very most i got one shot off before i seen the ship i was trying to work on which i might add was at full health poped

    now tell me how i am suppose to do anything when 2 persons got very high powered ap builds and they are not using skills to get the one shots off but just doing it through normal firing

    I use Fleet Alert all the time to level up new toons. Yes, I know exactly what I need to do, but the best advice I can give you is to not stray far from the base (so you can engage new incoming enemies quicker), and to equip an ability that hits for AoE damage such as Fire at will, Scatter shot, Torp Spread. As long as you land something, you'll be fine.

    Just because someone called you out for 'Punctuation', it doesn't give you them license to flame in return. It's against Forum rules and you're only giving the poster jollies that you actually reacted, which is what they wanted, and in return could end up with you getting the post shut down or yourself banned from the forums. This is friendly advice, ignore them and they have nothing nor gain anything.
    as for the grammar policing idea i have no problems repeating myself how every many times it has to take when i say that anyone that has to use that idea is not wanting to argue and take a easy way out of trying to win a argument

    i do not plan to be politically correct and that grammar policing idea is from a politically correct position point of view

    i write my post's as i see fit and if its not normal oh well i am not going to be held to the standard borg collective group think nonsense idea

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    reiklingraiderreiklingraider Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    I know it is going to be a short fleet alert when the first ships blow up before I enter the map. To avoid an afk penalty I will quickly go to where I know more ships will spawn away from the more powerful players. That way I can get some shots in and not get the penalty. I can't remember the last time I got the afk penalty and my ships are not the best for dps competitions.
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    ihatepwe735ihatepwe735 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    I still don't get how the AFK penalty even works.

    About a week ago, I went into a CCA as usual and by the time the loading screen was over, the entity was dead. Not sure if I ended up in an nearly finished instance or if there were insane levels of DPS, but nevertheless, I ended up doing absolutely nothing, not even activating Weapon System Efficiency or even closing the double speech window of Admiral Yanishev and I still got the rewards and no AFK penalty.

    I have not been given the AFK penalty yet by CCA, but my experience pretty much is, by the time I can close the damn speech window and close with the Entity to fire my first shot, it is always already at ~50% health.

    As a GMT+2 player I don't have the best latency, but this PvE is pretty bad for this. Which is especially annoying as, even if I was capable, I can never get a dps based reward. FFA seems much better in this regard - the longer "briefing" time gives me a chance to be fully loaded, and have deployed all my fighters by the time the shooting starts...

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    veeger#9876 veeger Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Or we could ask the devs to solve the fundamental underlying problem: The very fact that the game does allow for such enormous performance gaps that the game itself can no longer figure out who is AFKing and who is not.

    This. So much this.

    As a person new to this game the grind to get geared is a long, time gated process. And I am enjoying the process mostly. But doing anything that involves group play usually involves teaming with people who are so insanely geared that even when I try my best it still feels like I'm AFKing in comparison to their performance. The flames that I sometimes get because of such only add to the reason why I usually opt out of group content.

    I know the ones who are "insanely geared" are typically the ones who are throwing their paycheques at the C-Store and, hence, paying the bills for STO. Appeasing this group is important indeed. But too often in MMOs the developers cater too much to the veterans and in turn make it difficult for themselves to pick up and/or retain new players.
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    The so-called "AFK" penalty never made any sense. It was created as a minimum-cost answer to demands Cryptic "do something" about a nonexistent problem. Like most "do something" -solutions tend to be, it's really bad.

    And unlike others, I am saying get rid of it.
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    warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Or we could ask the devs to solve the fundamental underlying problem: The very fact that the game does allow for such enormous performance gaps that the game itself can no longer figure out who is AFKing and who is not.

    This. So much this.

    As a person new to this game the grind to get geared is a long, time gated process. And I am enjoying the process mostly. But doing anything that involves group play usually involves teaming with people who are so insanely geared that even when I try my best it still feels like I'm AFKing in comparison to their performance. The flames that I sometimes get because of such only add to the reason why I usually opt out of group content.

    Agreed. I don't do STFs much anymore - because the feeling that 'my best isn't good enough' was something I was feeling all to often. It has even gotten to the point where I don't queue with friends anymore either as they're all doing insane DPS and, as much as I hate to speak ill of them, waving their epeen about their parse numbers.

    I guess some of this is my doing - I favour a outdated ship and and playstyle that sadly has no place in the game's 'DPS or get lost' meta.
    This is something I really don't get. If you aren't interested in measuring "epeen" against your teammates, why would winning with overwhelming force give you the feeling that your best isn't good enough? If you won the mission, it was good enough as far as the game is concerned.
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    jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    I still don't get how the AFK penalty even works.

    About a week ago, I went into a CCA as usual and by the time the loading screen was over, the entity was dead. Not sure if I ended up in an nearly finished instance or if there were insane levels of DPS, but nevertheless, I ended up doing absolutely nothing, not even activating Weapon System Efficiency or even closing the double speech window of Admiral Yanishev and I still got the rewards and no AFK penalty.

    Yeah, it can be a bit confusing.

    There have been plenty of times where I was placed in a CCA instance that was almost completed where I was not even able to go full impulse and fire a single shot before it ended. I would get the reward like everyone else. That happened several times just last night.

    However, there was one time where I actually got an AFK in CCA. Someone buzzed my doorbell while CCA was loading and by the time I got back to the game the instance was over and I got hit with an AFK.

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    nccmarknccmark Member Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    "
    However, there was one time where I actually got an AFK in CCA. Someone buzzed my doorbell while CCA was loading and by the time I got back to the game the instance was over and I got hit with an AFK."

    Lol. You actually were AFK. It worked perfectly.
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    The only time I ever got an AFK penalty was when I joined a Fleet Alert in my Miranda (or maybe it was the level 10 escort) at level <20. So it was probably deserved.

    I think that, overall, it is working fine, although I do agree that maybe for missions that are done ridiculously fast like CCA, they need to remove it. It's not like it actually matters whether a player is AFK here or not anyway.

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    darthgreaterdarthgreater Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Just had this happen and my combat log showed I did damage throughout. But one person had a ship that could one shot everything even the boss at the end. Now it's a 2 hour wait. Yet we have people who can sit at the starting point and do nothing during the Crystalline event and get rewarded. Off to play another game instead of waiting 2 hours.
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    postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    If people are actually afk then fine they should get penalised.

    If they are active but unable to get past a damage threshold because there's one or more dps epeen being stroked then they shouldnt have the same level of punishment. If anything the high dpsers should be punished for going into a lower grade group and waggling their epeens with impunity, maybe a leaf of shame debuff that locks them from all normal queues for the following week.
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    leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,356 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Not so much embarassing as decidedly unfun. If the opponents are basically defenseless victims of the players, where is the tension in that? Where is the challenge? Where is the reason, in-universe, to even send five ships, when one obviously suffices?

    My thoughts exactly.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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    darthgreaterdarthgreater Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Of course the devs at Cryptic will see this as a nerf those items as the solution. When really solution should be get rid of the AFK penalty or make it in every event so the Crystalline Event people who really do nothing get it as well. It makes no sense to have it and not use it across the board.
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    protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    To the OP, if you got an afk penalty in Fed Fleet Alert I understand the way this would make you feel as high dps players can be mixed with those far far lower. I can recall this being brought up in another thread and another (higher dps) poster actually said they refrained from using all their buffs in the interest of giving others a chance. Kudos to that poster for having a sense of fair play. It's a normal difficulty queue after all.

    I have well over a dozen toons all factions that are in the 50-60K dps range and while this is not a lot compared to some it's enough that in this particular queue I can vaporize one enemy group then evasive to the other side and do the same. But I don't when it's obvious that the rest of the team isn't even close.

    Why not give other folks something to shoot at and let them have some fun? Maybe even throw out a few heals? As a higher dps player in a normal difficulty queue it's the right thing to do.

    Tip: while ranking up toons in advanced queues I've never gotten an afk penalty even when the rest of the team are very high dps players so the key is to shoot at something as soon as possible :)



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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    yes where i got the afk thing was from Fed Fleet Alert
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    hamster1234hamster1234 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    and i was shooting the first target i could get my hands on and nvm the fact i was on the side of the map where i knew where some npc ships was going to spawn in at to so i am being active flying shooting and if i got any healing skills i use them on persons if they need it but it seems this is not enough to make the system happy for that mission
This discussion has been closed.