IMHO...just tired of the old TOS stuff...AOY, temporal recruits, Old EXPENSIVE ships and now another season full of older episodes is a bit ridiculous.
Are they running out of juice to think about other stuff than just TOS? There are other ERAs you know. What about have a Xindi 2.0 or Borg 2.0 as nemesis...anything is better than status quo.
No they aren't, the lower case ones are very seldom used (as they're incorrect) and pedantry will indeed get me places. For instance it's winning me bags of internet points here.
I see them used everywhere. Them being incorrect does nothing to stop them from being used, see VOY being used more then the offical one, despite being incorrect.
And internet points are worthless, so no, it's not winning you anything.
I'm referring to TOS and TAS, until you posted them above I've only ever seen them as typos. Which is good as people understand that 'Original' and 'Animated' need to be capitalised. As for VOY vs. VGR, yes the latter is more common, but so is the brain dribbled reference to poor JJ instead of KT. I correct the latter because it's flat out wrong, both from the PoV of CBS and reality as poor JJ only directed and produced the first film.
It'd be hypocritical of me to correct people when they use VOY over VGR even though the former is wrong as I use VOY (as I didn't know until a few minutes ago when I looked up DIC vs. DSC. Once I get into the habit of using VGR myself I'll probably do the same thing there.
However I'm struggling to hear your last sentence over the sound of all these internet points I'm drowning in.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
One can argue Star Trek has always looked back. TOS Episodes are told from the past tense of Kirk's log. That's why he seems almost omnipotent in his blog entries.
Actually, Star Trek is almost always looking forward. Aside from the occasional TRIBBLE Germany episode, the one where the Ferengi go to Area 51, the story of T'Pol's grandma, or the like, every episode is set in the...
Future.
Don't forget folks, the year is 2017.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
Well, this is the short list of what I have classified as incomplete or missing TNG content:
Playable Cardassian Faction.
Playable Dominion Faction.
Playable Ferengi Faction.
Explorable Gamma Quadrant (most likely would be included with the Dominion Faction).
More then one playable Delta Quadrant species.
When all of those tasks have been completed, only then will I believe that TNG content has been completed.
And then they can feel free to indulge as much TOS nostalgia as they want.
Please do not suggest the two factions I named are enemy factions, they are not.
Cardassia is nominally aligned with the Federation.
The Dominion are antagonistic, but otherwise maintain diplomatic relations with the existing galactic powers when it suits them.
If you want an example of how an mmo can mesh with a live action tv show, look at Defiance.
The mmo is located geographically close to Defiance, but not enough so that you can go there.
Something you do in the mmo is referenced in the show and vice versa.
Examples include the Libera Nova gem being stolen from the Player Character, a doctor sending medical aidcare packages to Defiance and so on.
The events are kept separate, but by referencing something in the mmo without showing it allows them to be independent, yet fully connected.
That's how I think a spinoff show could work, having someone on comms say something like, Sol Spacedock is under attack by Species 8472, darn it Captain. we'd never make in there in time.
Or referencing increased Iconian activity in the sector.
Talk about it, but don't deal with it as part of the episode.
Post edited by tilarta on
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Does 'Star Trek' (aside from the occasional time travel episode) take place in 1966-1969 or 1973-1974 or 1979- 2005 or 2009, or 2013 or 2016 or 2017?
No.
Thus whether it's 2151-2154, 2254, 2266-2269, 2273-2274, 2279-2293 or 2364-2377 'Star Trek' is always 'looking forward'
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Well, this is the short list of what I have classified as incomplete or missing TNG content:
Playable Cardassian Faction.
Playable Dominion Faction.
Explorable Gamma Quadrant (most likely would be included with the Dominion Faction).
More then one playable Delta Quadrant species.
Are you confused?
Everything you listed is Deep Space 9 content, not TNG content.....
TNG had nothing to do with the Dominion, or the Gamma Quadrant, or the Delta Quadrant, and the Cardassians only showed up for like what? 5 episodes?
Pretty much agree, but while we are classifying content by show, Delta Quadrant wasn't TNG but neither was it DS9, it was VOY. Also, they seem to want multiple playable DQ species introduced, but then have it reduced to one. That is, after all, what "more then one" means.
Perhaps, most importantly though, is the suggestion that their definition of "incomplete" is the correct one, and that only once Cryptic has finished off this laundry list do they have permission to do something else from TOS. First, I suggest we axe the Cardassian Faction and introduce the Ferengi Faction. Dominion faction makes no sense, how about the Maquis? (Shush you...) I could go on, I'm sure others could too. And since we, the fans, all have different ideas, no one fan gets to make the list. Also, the fan in question doesn't get to give Cryptic permission to continue developing any particular subject, as they seem to be demanding. At all. Period. The End. Forever and Ever. Amen.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
Well, this is the short list of what I have classified as incomplete or missing TNG content:
Playable Cardassian Faction.
Playable Dominion Faction.
Explorable Gamma Quadrant (most likely would be included with the Dominion Faction).
More then one playable Delta Quadrant species.
When all of those tasks have been completed, only then will I believe that TNG content has been completed.
And then they can feel free to indulge as much TOS nostalgia as they want.
Please do not suggest the two factions I named are enemy factions, they are not.
Cardassia is nominally aligned with the Federation.
The Dominion are antagonistic, but otherwise maintain diplomatic relations with the existing galactic powers when it suits them.
If you want an example of how an mmo can mesh with a live action tv show, look at Defiance.
The mmo is located geographically close to Defiance, but not enough so that you can go there.
Something you do in the mmo is referenced in the show and vice versa.
Examples include the Libera Nova gem being stolen from the Player Character, a doctor sending medical aidcare packages to Defiance and so on.
The events are kept separate, but by referencing something in the mmo without showing it allows them to be independent, yet fully connected.
That's how I think a spinoff show could work, having someone on comms say something like, Sol Spacedock is under attack by Species 8472, darn it Captain. we'd never make in there in time.
Or referencing increased Iconian activity in the sector.
Talk about it, but don't deal with it as part of the episode.
While Cardassians were in TNG, they were much much more prevalent in DS9.
Dominion, are from the Gamma Quadrant, which no one had gone too until the Wormhole was discovered in DS9
Gamma quadrant, see comment on The Dominion
Delta Quadrant, no one had gone there ine TNG at all. Don't even think it was mentioned. Was not a thing until Voyager wound up there as they left for a mission from DS9 to The Badlands and got taken there along with some Maquis.
Do you maybe have the 2 series crossed in your mind? TNG was Picard, DS9 was Sisko.
I said TNG because I don't know if there's a better term to describe all the shows set within the 24th century.
If you know a better descriptive term, feel free to supply it.
To clarify, from STO's point of view, anything predating the 24th century is "looking backwards", because that is the present in our game.
To clarify, I want one specific DQ species, but I never said that precludes the possibility of adding several others.
As long as I get the one I want, Cryptic can add as many as they like.
Kazon, Malon, Voth, Hirogen and whatever other species were mostly prevalent.
FYI, I want Hirogen too, but the forumites insisted we'd never see them as playable, so am uncertain if that is going to happen.
The Dominion Faction is because I want to play as Jem'Hadar and get a Vorta BOFF.
Also, it would be interesting to see things from the Dominon's perspective, perhaps even that of a Jem'Hadar.
Despite all appearances, the Jem'Hadar are not mindless brutes, they do think and have opinions.
And I thought it would be more meaningful if we see the Gamma Quadrant from the Dominion's perspective.
It would give us more story to explore if we were playing it as a faction rather then "just visiting from the Alpha Quadrant".
And in both cases, it would make it easier to have the respective vessels without some lockbox RNG to get them.
Although they'll probably restrict them to T5 or something to give us reasons to still want the lockbox/lobi store versions.
If I had a real playable Jem'Hadar Captain in a Dominion faction, I might be motivated to buy that Lobi Store Dominion Dreadnaught.
Well, this is the short list of what I have classified as incomplete or missing TNG content:
Playable Cardassian Faction.
Playable Dominion Faction.
Explorable Gamma Quadrant (most likely would be included with the Dominion Faction).
More then one playable Delta Quadrant species.
When all of those tasks have been completed, only then will I believe that TNG content has been completed.
And then they can feel free to indulge as much TOS nostalgia as they want.
Please do not suggest the two factions I named are enemy factions, they are not.
Cardassia is nominally aligned with the Federation.
The Dominion are antagonistic, but otherwise maintain diplomatic relations with the existing galactic powers when it suits them.
- Playable Cardassians would more fall under DS9 rather than TNG since they were more focused in on in the former series.
- Playable Dominion would also fall under DS9 since they were introduced there, but would never work out simply because when it comes right down to the fighting, the Jem'hadar mostly do the fighting for them and as you should know, since they only produce males, that would limit the gender options.
- Explorable Gamma Quadrant: Once again, DS9 content since all we had from TNG was a mention of the Gamma Quadrant. I think we'll eventually get there, but it'll take time and a path towards it in the story.
- More than one playable Delta Quadrant species: This would fall under more of the lines of Voyager contents since the show more dealt with that than TNG did (we had only a few scenes where TNG dealt with the Delta Quadrant, but that was mostly dealing with the Barzan wormhole).
TNG content would fall more with references to events that happened in TNG such as Tasha Yar & Yesterday's Enterprise, Worf and his references to the Solanae when they were doing the experiments on the crew, the bluegill aliens and their attempted takeover of Starfleet, etc.
Well, this is the short list of what I have classified as incomplete or missing TNG content:
Playable Cardassian Faction.
Playable Dominion Faction.
Explorable Gamma Quadrant (most likely would be included with the Dominion Faction).
More then one playable Delta Quadrant species.
Are you confused?
Everything you listed is Deep Space 9 content, not TNG content.....
TNG had nothing to do with the Dominion, or the Gamma Quadrant, or the Delta Quadrant, and the Cardassians only showed up for like what? 5 episodes?
I'm getting the feeling he might have been thinking of TNG era and how TNG, DS9 and Voyager fall within the same linear sequence of time (2364-2378) and how each series helped to pass the torch the new show as they started. (Picard gave Sisko the O'briens and appeared to talk to Sisko about taking command; Quark & DS9 appeared on Voyager as they set out to find the Maquis)
I said TNG because I don't know if there's a better term to describe all the shows set within the 24th century.
If you know a better descriptive term, feel free to supply it.
I think if you said TNG Era Stuff instead of just TNG Stuff that would have summed it up pretty nicely. There is also the in-game terminology that could be used, like 24c. Seeing as all the TOS and other things took place in the 23c and TNG/DS9/VOY/STO are all in the 24c, saying finishing up 24c story lines would work too. Then there is the other option I just used, instead of saying just TNG you could have said TNG/DS9/VOY Stuff.
...
I hadn't really considered the Ferengi because they are already playable, just not as a faction.
But sure, we can add that to the wishlist as well.
...
My point wasn't too get stuff added to "your list", my point was that making a list and saying the game isn't complete because the list isn't complete is...
Just
Plain
FOOLISH.
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
IMHO...just tired of the old TOS stuff...AOY, temporal recruits, Old EXPENSIVE ships and now another season full of older episodes is a bit ridiculous.
Are they running out of juice to think about other stuff than just TOS? There are other ERAs you know. What about have a Xindi 2.0 or Borg 2.0 as nemesis...anything is better than status quo.
I quite like my TOS ship thank you. Beats all the non-faction alien ships that have been going out lately.
With the Dominion, the wormhole is open all the time, they can go to the Alpha Quadrant any time they like, they just can't send invading fleets.
Apparently diplomatic envoys and fleets intended to aid the Alpha Quadrant are permitted, as they both travelled through the wormhole unimpeded.
If they were to do a full Dominion faction (unlikely!), I'd expect you'd start out as a newly matured Jem'Hadar or synthesized Vorta, work your way up the ranks, then at some point encounter Sela who is looking for allies and then the Dominion are brought into the Alpha Quadrant to fight the Iconians with your crew/ship as part of the forces she was granted.
At that point, you rejoin the storyline properly.
Also, I regularly see a DOFF mission to assign a Security Detachment to a Dominion envoy.
If that mission unlocks at level 11 (with DOFFing) then they are present at early stages of the game.
As for Delta Quadrant races in the Alpha Quadrant, Cryptic simply didn't explain it.
There is no story, no justification, only a Talaxian species unlock.
That's how I expect them to handle any additional playable DQ species, just an purchasable unlock via C-Store, nothing else, nothing more.
And that's all I need really, a genuine DQ Captain to fly the DQ ships already ingame.
As for the Cardassians, I don't think they'll get to join the RR, as the game doesn't have code eventualities to allow for that.
It wouldn't make sense for a subfaction to become part of another subfaction. Starfleet or KDF, those are the only choices.
I assume the only realistic item on the list is the Gamma Quadrant expansion, they'll just modify the wormhole with a "travel to GQ" function, give us a handful of playable missions, zone specific DOFF missions, an explorable area and that will be all.
Maybe a new Reputation and Fleet Holding if they feel generous enough to add a little extra icing on the GQ cake.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
So far, all I've seen in tv, movies and the mmo is backwards regression, the AOY update was used to add a lot of TOS specific content, the movies, Enterprise and Discovery all predate the TOS era.
Given that I am disappointed with Cryptic for not fully finishing the TNG content updates, I am concerned that when Discovery is released, they'll just use it as a reason to introduce a season update based fully around that show instead of working on the TNG completion.
And please note, I am not saying they can't do this, just they have to finish all the TNG content first.
It should be pointed out, in the interest of facts, that AOY also added 26th and 29th century episodes and 31st century timeships. It dealt specifically with the Temporal Cold War, the furthest forward event in ST canon that we know (also relating it directly to the most recent events in STO canon, ie. the Iconian War), and it has subsequently lead to a mission series that ties a DS9 villain to modern events in the STO timeline (continuing things on from that war.) The most recent cameo was also first introduced in TNG, recognizes the transformation he underwent in DS9, and makes a few tweaks to portray him in a modern setting.
Basically, this MMO is balancing itself quite well. I'd also like to add that focusing on TOS content a bit for AOY was very appropriate to celebrate the 50th anniversary of TOS. It was a rather special event that does not indicate a long-term plan (beware projecting trends on momentary data). And, in no way is Cryptic obligated to finish "TNG content updates" ahead of any other conceivable project. Where is this expectation coming from (besides personal preference)?
So, I don't see the basis of the OP's complaint. Sure, we don't have a continuation of Nemesis/VOY yet from CBS/Paramount, but that is not sufficient to justify a highly selective complaint thread in STO's general forum (a game based in 2410).
The last two C-store ships were both DS9 era (Sovereign and Nebula.) Now, that's not a thematic tie in but it does mean that the Undiscovered lock box had no pressing reason to provide DS9 content. It's there in the game already, the box is free to do other things.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Seeing as all the TOS and other things took place in the 23c and TNG/DS9/VOY/STO are all in the 24c, saying finishing up 24c story lines would work too.
Teensy tiny nitpick, but STO starts in 2409, aka the early 25th century.
The last two C-store ships were both DS9 era (Sovereign and Nebula.)
The Nebula is a TNG era ship not a DS9 era one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
That is a Nebula class docked at DS9. It's a DS9 era ship as well.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
As a lifelong Star Trek fan I would personally like to see story going forward and let the past be past. I would like to see new stuff as much as i like DS9 Tng Tos and enterprise but i would really love to see story continue what happened after DS9 and voyager and stop going back to tos era.
That is a Nebula class docked at DS9. It's a DS9 era ship as well.
I know it's been seen in DS9. I said it's not a DS9 era ship, i.e. ships built or designed after the Defiant (Intrepid, Sovereign, Prometheus etc.)
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I know it's been seen in DS9. I said it's not a DS9 era ship, i.e. ships built or designed after the Defiant (Intrepid, Sovereign, Prometheus etc.)
That's pretty irrelevant, both in and out of universe. For example: the Galaxy class was neither built or designed during the run of TNG. By this definition, it's not a ship of the TNG era (development took place elsewhere). Ditto Constitution class and TOS. If the ship was used in an era, it's a ship of that era. That's it.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I know it's been seen in DS9. I said it's not a DS9 era ship, i.e. ships built or designed after the Defiant (Intrepid, Sovereign, Prometheus etc.)
That's pretty irrelevant. For example: the Galaxy class was neither built or designed during the run of TNG. Ditto Constitution class and TOS. If the ship was used in an era, it's a ship of that era. Build/design dates have never been a workable criteria.
The TNG era ships go from the Ambassador to the Olympic. Both of which are outside the series run of TNG. That's what the eras are, not where they're seen. Else the Miranda is a DS9 era ship by that logic.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I know it's been seen in DS9. I said it's not a DS9 era ship, i.e. ships built or designed after the Defiant (Intrepid, Sovereign, Prometheus etc.)
That's pretty irrelevant. For example: the Galaxy class was neither built or designed during the run of TNG. Ditto Constitution class and TOS. If the ship was used in an era, it's a ship of that era. Build/design dates have never been a workable criteria.
The TNG era ships go from the Ambassador to the Olympic. Both of which are outside the series run of TNG. That's what the eras are, not where they're seen. Else the Miranda is a DS9 era ship by that logic.
And the D7 battlecruiser is simultaneously an Enterprise-era and Voyager-era ship while primarily featured in TOS.
I know it's been seen in DS9. I said it's not a DS9 era ship, i.e. ships built or designed after the Defiant (Intrepid, Sovereign, Prometheus etc.)
That's pretty irrelevant, both in and out of universe. For example: the Galaxy class was neither built or designed during the run of TNG. By this definition, it's not a ship of the TNG era (development took place elsewhere). Ditto Constitution class and TOS. If the ship was used in an era, it's a ship of that era. That's it.
Aside from the USS Galaxy, which was the prototype, the first two Galaxy Class ships were the Yamato and the Enterprise. Unless the Yamato was commissioned long before the Enterprise, we basically see the second one to go in to service go in to service in the first episode of TNG. All the rest of the Galaxy Class ships therefore went in to commission during TNG or after. So it was built just before the run of TNG and nearly all of them went into commission during TNG, it's a ship of that era.
Also, yeah, just because they were seen in DS9 does not make them DS9 era ships. It just makes them old ships that are still in commission during the DS9 era.
The TNG era ships go from the Ambassador to the Olympic. Both of which are outside the series run of TNG. That's what the eras are, not where they're seen. Else the Miranda is a DS9 era ship by that logic.
If you want to use a Miranda class as a "DS9 era" ship that's totally appropriate. It was operating in that era, it's also a DS9 era ship. These are not mutually exclusive categories.
Design/appearance criteria are fatally inconsistent because they cannot include ships designed and built before the series run. They rely exclusively on an artifacts of production, not self-consistent factors in-universe (which would be relevant to this kind of discussion where the Nebula class can be cited as an appropriate ship to use while playing DS9 related content. It would also be appropriate for TNG related content, but by no stretch of the imagination does that contradict the previous point.)
Again, see the Galaxy class which entered service before Encounter at Farpoint. It's definitely a "TNG era ship." Why? Because it appeared in the TNG era. That's the only workable criteria.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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The TNG era ships go from the Ambassador to the Olympic. Both of which are outside the series run of TNG. That's what the eras are, not where they're seen. Else the Miranda is a DS9 era ship by that logic.
If you want to use a Miranda class as a "DS9 era" ship that's totally appropriate. It was operating in that era, it's also a DS9 era ship. These are not mutually exclusive categories.
Design/appearance criteria are fatally inconsistent because they cannot include ships designed and built before the series run. They rely exclusively on an artifacts of series production, not self-consistent factors in universe (which would be relevant to this kind of discussion where the Nebula class can be cited as an appropriate ship to use while playing DS9 themed content. It would also be appropriate for TNG themed content, but that's an entirely moot point.)
Again, see the Galaxy class which entered service before Encounter at Farpoint. It's definitely a "TNG era ship." Why? Because it appeared in the TNG era.
You're overthinking it. The design eras used commonly by fans are simply the era in which the ship and related designs are most often seen. The Galaxy is most often seen in TNG so it's a TNG era ship as are the ships that share components with it (Nebula, Springfield, Olympic, Ambassador etc.)
The Miranda appeared in TWoK and is based on the Constitution refit from TMP, thus that ship and similar (Excelsior, Constellation etc) are TMP era ships. It's just how it is.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You're overthinking it. The design eras used commonly by fans are simply the era in which the ship and related designs are most often seen. The Galaxy is most often seen in TNG so it's a TNG era ship as are the ships that share components with it (Nebula, Springfield, Olympic, Ambassador etc.)
The Miranda appeared in TWoK and is based on the Constitution refit from TMP, thus that ship and similar (Excelsior, Constellation etc) are TMP era ships. It's just how it is.
It's not over thinking to say "if a ship was used in an era, it's a ship of that era. That's all that matters."
Fans may use a different set of criteria to invent mutually exclusive ship eras but the logic behind that is not consistent. The Excelsior class for example was most commonly seen in DS9 (count them across all battle/fleet shots.) To call it then a TMP era ship would require contradicting the logic you've specified to include the Galaxy with TNG (which contradicts the logic you've specified in trying to set the Nebula apart from DS9.)
This is just to point out "it's okay to call a Nebula class a ship of the DS9 era." I'm following through with the logic specified to reach the point where it stops working. Adding more complexity to the definition just sets that point a bit further back. It still breaks down. The point: these specified eras do not work. One has to simplify, ditch the idea of mutually exclusive categories (that's the core problem, these eras aren't mutually exclusive) and just look at "what's active in what series?" That may have more than one answer (a ship may be a part of multiple series, those only chronicle TV productions) but that's perfectly fine.
Then, you can apply that to the question which started this part of discussion: c-store ships demonstrating the point that Cryptic is not fixated on the TOS era. They've released other content too, including ships that harken back to the first mentions of the T'zenkethi. That's to say: it's okay that the Undiscovered lock box didn't share a direct theme, other stuff is available for those that want to try building a theme of their own.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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I'm referring to TOS and TAS, until you posted them above I've only ever seen them as typos. Which is good as people understand that 'Original' and 'Animated' need to be capitalised. As for VOY vs. VGR, yes the latter is more common, but so is the brain dribbled reference to poor JJ instead of KT. I correct the latter because it's flat out wrong, both from the PoV of CBS and reality as poor JJ only directed and produced the first film.
It'd be hypocritical of me to correct people when they use VOY over VGR even though the former is wrong as I use VOY (as I didn't know until a few minutes ago when I looked up DIC vs. DSC. Once I get into the habit of using VGR myself I'll probably do the same thing there.
However I'm struggling to hear your last sentence over the sound of all these internet points I'm drowning in.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Future.
Don't forget folks, the year is 2017.
When all of those tasks have been completed, only then will I believe that TNG content has been completed.
And then they can feel free to indulge as much TOS nostalgia as they want.
Please do not suggest the two factions I named are enemy factions, they are not.
Cardassia is nominally aligned with the Federation.
The Dominion are antagonistic, but otherwise maintain diplomatic relations with the existing galactic powers when it suits them.
If you want an example of how an mmo can mesh with a live action tv show, look at Defiance.
The mmo is located geographically close to Defiance, but not enough so that you can go there.
Something you do in the mmo is referenced in the show and vice versa.
Examples include the Libera Nova gem being stolen from the Player Character, a doctor sending medical aidcare packages to Defiance and so on.
The events are kept separate, but by referencing something in the mmo without showing it allows them to be independent, yet fully connected.
That's how I think a spinoff show could work, having someone on comms say something like, Sol Spacedock is under attack by Species 8472, darn it Captain. we'd never make in there in time.
Or referencing increased Iconian activity in the sector.
Talk about it, but don't deal with it as part of the episode.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
No.
Thus whether it's 2151-2154, 2254, 2266-2269, 2273-2274, 2279-2293 or 2364-2377 'Star Trek' is always 'looking forward'
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Pretty much agree, but while we are classifying content by show, Delta Quadrant wasn't TNG but neither was it DS9, it was VOY. Also, they seem to want multiple playable DQ species introduced, but then have it reduced to one. That is, after all, what "more then one" means.
Perhaps, most importantly though, is the suggestion that their definition of "incomplete" is the correct one, and that only once Cryptic has finished off this laundry list do they have permission to do something else from TOS. First, I suggest we axe the Cardassian Faction and introduce the Ferengi Faction. Dominion faction makes no sense, how about the Maquis? (Shush you...) I could go on, I'm sure others could too. And since we, the fans, all have different ideas, no one fan gets to make the list. Also, the fan in question doesn't get to give Cryptic permission to continue developing any particular subject, as they seem to be demanding. At all. Period. The End. Forever and Ever. Amen.
While Cardassians were in TNG, they were much much more prevalent in DS9.
Dominion, are from the Gamma Quadrant, which no one had gone too until the Wormhole was discovered in DS9
Gamma quadrant, see comment on The Dominion
Delta Quadrant, no one had gone there ine TNG at all. Don't even think it was mentioned. Was not a thing until Voyager wound up there as they left for a mission from DS9 to The Badlands and got taken there along with some Maquis.
Do you maybe have the 2 series crossed in your mind? TNG was Picard, DS9 was Sisko.
Aw yeah, more TNG content!
If you know a better descriptive term, feel free to supply it.
To clarify, from STO's point of view, anything predating the 24th century is "looking backwards", because that is the present in our game.
To clarify, I want one specific DQ species, but I never said that precludes the possibility of adding several others.
As long as I get the one I want, Cryptic can add as many as they like.
Kazon, Malon, Voth, Hirogen and whatever other species were mostly prevalent.
FYI, I want Hirogen too, but the forumites insisted we'd never see them as playable, so am uncertain if that is going to happen.
The Dominion Faction is because I want to play as Jem'Hadar and get a Vorta BOFF.
Also, it would be interesting to see things from the Dominon's perspective, perhaps even that of a Jem'Hadar.
Despite all appearances, the Jem'Hadar are not mindless brutes, they do think and have opinions.
And I thought it would be more meaningful if we see the Gamma Quadrant from the Dominion's perspective.
It would give us more story to explore if we were playing it as a faction rather then "just visiting from the Alpha Quadrant".
And in both cases, it would make it easier to have the respective vessels without some lockbox RNG to get them.
Although they'll probably restrict them to T5 or something to give us reasons to still want the lockbox/lobi store versions.
If I had a real playable Jem'Hadar Captain in a Dominion faction, I might be motivated to buy that Lobi Store Dominion Dreadnaught.
That's Thomas Riker from a Deep Space Nine episode.
It's not William Riker from TNG.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
- Playable Cardassians would more fall under DS9 rather than TNG since they were more focused in on in the former series.
- Playable Dominion would also fall under DS9 since they were introduced there, but would never work out simply because when it comes right down to the fighting, the Jem'hadar mostly do the fighting for them and as you should know, since they only produce males, that would limit the gender options.
- Explorable Gamma Quadrant: Once again, DS9 content since all we had from TNG was a mention of the Gamma Quadrant. I think we'll eventually get there, but it'll take time and a path towards it in the story.
- More than one playable Delta Quadrant species: This would fall under more of the lines of Voyager contents since the show more dealt with that than TNG did (we had only a few scenes where TNG dealt with the Delta Quadrant, but that was mostly dealing with the Barzan wormhole).
TNG content would fall more with references to events that happened in TNG such as Tasha Yar & Yesterday's Enterprise, Worf and his references to the Solanae when they were doing the experiments on the crew, the bluegill aliens and their attempted takeover of Starfleet, etc.
I'm getting the feeling he might have been thinking of TNG era and how TNG, DS9 and Voyager fall within the same linear sequence of time (2364-2378) and how each series helped to pass the torch the new show as they started. (Picard gave Sisko the O'briens and appeared to talk to Sisko about taking command; Quark & DS9 appeared on Voyager as they set out to find the Maquis)
I think if you said TNG Era Stuff instead of just TNG Stuff that would have summed it up pretty nicely. There is also the in-game terminology that could be used, like 24c. Seeing as all the TOS and other things took place in the 23c and TNG/DS9/VOY/STO are all in the 24c, saying finishing up 24c story lines would work too. Then there is the other option I just used, instead of saying just TNG you could have said TNG/DS9/VOY Stuff.
My point wasn't too get stuff added to "your list", my point was that making a list and saying the game isn't complete because the list isn't complete is...
Just
Plain
FOOLISH.
I quite like my TOS ship thank you. Beats all the non-faction alien ships that have been going out lately.
Timey wimey and all that.
Apparently diplomatic envoys and fleets intended to aid the Alpha Quadrant are permitted, as they both travelled through the wormhole unimpeded.
If they were to do a full Dominion faction (unlikely!), I'd expect you'd start out as a newly matured Jem'Hadar or synthesized Vorta, work your way up the ranks, then at some point encounter Sela who is looking for allies and then the Dominion are brought into the Alpha Quadrant to fight the Iconians with your crew/ship as part of the forces she was granted.
At that point, you rejoin the storyline properly.
Also, I regularly see a DOFF mission to assign a Security Detachment to a Dominion envoy.
If that mission unlocks at level 11 (with DOFFing) then they are present at early stages of the game.
As for Delta Quadrant races in the Alpha Quadrant, Cryptic simply didn't explain it.
There is no story, no justification, only a Talaxian species unlock.
That's how I expect them to handle any additional playable DQ species, just an purchasable unlock via C-Store, nothing else, nothing more.
And that's all I need really, a genuine DQ Captain to fly the DQ ships already ingame.
As for the Cardassians, I don't think they'll get to join the RR, as the game doesn't have code eventualities to allow for that.
It wouldn't make sense for a subfaction to become part of another subfaction.
Starfleet or KDF, those are the only choices.
I assume the only realistic item on the list is the Gamma Quadrant expansion, they'll just modify the wormhole with a "travel to GQ" function, give us a handful of playable missions, zone specific DOFF missions, an explorable area and that will be all.
Maybe a new Reputation and Fleet Holding if they feel generous enough to add a little extra icing on the GQ cake.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
It should be pointed out, in the interest of facts, that AOY also added 26th and 29th century episodes and 31st century timeships. It dealt specifically with the Temporal Cold War, the furthest forward event in ST canon that we know (also relating it directly to the most recent events in STO canon, ie. the Iconian War), and it has subsequently lead to a mission series that ties a DS9 villain to modern events in the STO timeline (continuing things on from that war.) The most recent cameo was also first introduced in TNG, recognizes the transformation he underwent in DS9, and makes a few tweaks to portray him in a modern setting.
Basically, this MMO is balancing itself quite well. I'd also like to add that focusing on TOS content a bit for AOY was very appropriate to celebrate the 50th anniversary of TOS. It was a rather special event that does not indicate a long-term plan (beware projecting trends on momentary data). And, in no way is Cryptic obligated to finish "TNG content updates" ahead of any other conceivable project. Where is this expectation coming from (besides personal preference)?
So, I don't see the basis of the OP's complaint. Sure, we don't have a continuation of Nemesis/VOY yet from CBS/Paramount, but that is not sufficient to justify a highly selective complaint thread in STO's general forum (a game based in 2410).
The last two C-store ships were both DS9 era (Sovereign and Nebula.) Now, that's not a thematic tie in but it does mean that the Undiscovered lock box had no pressing reason to provide DS9 content. It's there in the game already, the box is free to do other things.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Teensy tiny nitpick, but STO starts in 2409, aka the early 25th century.
The Nebula is a TNG era ship not a DS9 era one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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TNG and DS9 overlap.
Example: U.S.S. T'Kumbra
That is a Nebula class docked at DS9. It's a DS9 era ship as well.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I know it's been seen in DS9. I said it's not a DS9 era ship, i.e. ships built or designed after the Defiant (Intrepid, Sovereign, Prometheus etc.)
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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That's pretty irrelevant, both in and out of universe. For example: the Galaxy class was neither built or designed during the run of TNG. By this definition, it's not a ship of the TNG era (development took place elsewhere). Ditto Constitution class and TOS. If the ship was used in an era, it's a ship of that era. That's it.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The TNG era ships go from the Ambassador to the Olympic. Both of which are outside the series run of TNG. That's what the eras are, not where they're seen. Else the Miranda is a DS9 era ship by that logic.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And the D7 battlecruiser is simultaneously an Enterprise-era and Voyager-era ship while primarily featured in TOS.
Aside from the USS Galaxy, which was the prototype, the first two Galaxy Class ships were the Yamato and the Enterprise. Unless the Yamato was commissioned long before the Enterprise, we basically see the second one to go in to service go in to service in the first episode of TNG. All the rest of the Galaxy Class ships therefore went in to commission during TNG or after. So it was built just before the run of TNG and nearly all of them went into commission during TNG, it's a ship of that era.
Also, yeah, just because they were seen in DS9 does not make them DS9 era ships. It just makes them old ships that are still in commission during the DS9 era.
If you want to use a Miranda class as a "DS9 era" ship that's totally appropriate. It was operating in that era, it's also a DS9 era ship. These are not mutually exclusive categories.
Design/appearance criteria are fatally inconsistent because they cannot include ships designed and built before the series run. They rely exclusively on an artifacts of production, not self-consistent factors in-universe (which would be relevant to this kind of discussion where the Nebula class can be cited as an appropriate ship to use while playing DS9 related content. It would also be appropriate for TNG related content, but by no stretch of the imagination does that contradict the previous point.)
Again, see the Galaxy class which entered service before Encounter at Farpoint. It's definitely a "TNG era ship." Why? Because it appeared in the TNG era. That's the only workable criteria.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
You're overthinking it. The design eras used commonly by fans are simply the era in which the ship and related designs are most often seen. The Galaxy is most often seen in TNG so it's a TNG era ship as are the ships that share components with it (Nebula, Springfield, Olympic, Ambassador etc.)
The Miranda appeared in TWoK and is based on the Constitution refit from TMP, thus that ship and similar (Excelsior, Constellation etc) are TMP era ships. It's just how it is.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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It's not over thinking to say "if a ship was used in an era, it's a ship of that era. That's all that matters."
Fans may use a different set of criteria to invent mutually exclusive ship eras but the logic behind that is not consistent. The Excelsior class for example was most commonly seen in DS9 (count them across all battle/fleet shots.) To call it then a TMP era ship would require contradicting the logic you've specified to include the Galaxy with TNG (which contradicts the logic you've specified in trying to set the Nebula apart from DS9.)
This is just to point out "it's okay to call a Nebula class a ship of the DS9 era." I'm following through with the logic specified to reach the point where it stops working. Adding more complexity to the definition just sets that point a bit further back. It still breaks down. The point: these specified eras do not work. One has to simplify, ditch the idea of mutually exclusive categories (that's the core problem, these eras aren't mutually exclusive) and just look at "what's active in what series?" That may have more than one answer (a ship may be a part of multiple series, those only chronicle TV productions) but that's perfectly fine.
Then, you can apply that to the question which started this part of discussion: c-store ships demonstrating the point that Cryptic is not fixated on the TOS era. They've released other content too, including ships that harken back to the first mentions of the T'zenkethi. That's to say: it's okay that the Undiscovered lock box didn't share a direct theme, other stuff is available for those that want to try building a theme of their own.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!