Single cannon, ever a good choice?

chastity1337 · October 2016

Single cannon, do they have any use at all? Can you imagine any application in which they would be the best choice?

Granted, anything can be made to work, if you're just building a Barbie Beach Van, but are they ever the optimal choice?

velimattiala · October 2016

Would not pick them for "endgame", but early on (10-40ish) when even escorts are not particularly agile, their wider arc does make a difference. When compared to dual or dual-heavy anyway. Vs beams....matters of taste at that point.

freakium · October 2016

The Long Range Targeting Sensors from the skills revamp helped them a bunch. Most build will still either equip beams or dual heavy cannons only.

I myself like using them for canon builds and non-Federation shuttles. Optimal choice? Probably not. Beams will always rule with the current meta but just try slotting single cannons fore and turrets aft on a cruiser for fun. You'll be surprised just how well they can do.

peterconnorfirst · October 2016

I run the elachi single cannon alongside dual heavy cannons on my jhss. On countless parses I took it came out on par with the dual heavy cannons.

Even if you pilot well there simply seem to be a lot of situations over the duration of a match where the much wider firing arc is simply better and more useful (ISA L/R nanites e.g.).

velimattiala · October 2016

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Even if you pilot well there simply seem to be a lot of situations over the duration of a match where the much wider firing arc is simply better and more useful (ISA L/R nanites e.g.).

Very true, in "target rich" encounters arc is everything (which is also why bfaw is unbeatable steady dps wise).

eradicator84 · October 2016

Any cannon/turret that is NOT classed as a "heavy" weapon imo should have an innate CritH mod built in. Much like "heavy" class weapons have an innate CritD.

Would allow people to focus builds with them based around lots of dice rolls. Which really is all non-heavy cannons/turrets have going for them, rate of fire and shots per volley.

I've seen a few threads about here that have already done a reasonably good job with this idea. However an innate CrtH would go a long way imo to making them a solid alternative choice to DHC builds.

peterconnorfirst · October 2016

eradicator84 wrote: »

I've seen a few threads about here that have already done a reasonably good job with this idea. However an innate CrtH would go a long way imo to making them a solid alternative choice to DHC builds.

Given the benefit of plasma explosions from embassy sci consoles I am under the impression that DC do have benefits of DHC, no?

eradicator84 · October 2016

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Dual_Heavy_Cannons

DHCs fire slower (but hit harder), draw more power, and have innate +10% CritD.
Plasma exploders don't bridge that gap afaik.

autumnturning · October 2016

eradicator84 wrote: »

Would allow people to focus builds with them based around lots of dice rolls. Which really is all non-heavy cannons/turrets have going for them, rate of fire and shots per volley.

Shhhh!

We don't want everyone drinking the Kool-Aid and moving away from Beams ...

welcome2earf · October 2016

If one is creating an all-turret build (which is fun with C:RF), using single cannons for the fwd arc can be helpful as far as damage is concerned, at loss of *some* arc.

They really need to make single cannons tail-mountable.

sohtoh · October 2016

eradicator84 wrote: »

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Dual_Heavy_Cannons

DHCs fire slower (but hit harder), draw more power, and have innate +10% CritD.
Plasma exploders don't bridge that gap afaik.

Since it was found that the innate CrtD is actually dropped during CRF and CSV, Dual Cannons can actually pull ahead of DHCs when the Plasma exploders are used. If you solely use CSV and the Withering Barrage trait, that gap widens a bit more.

abbandon · October 2016

Any advice on how to make a 45-90 degree ship work well? I really wanted to use DC/DHC or even Dual Banks on one of my captains but when I went to try I didnt like being stuck getting punched in the face.

I love using beams in all slots and using broadsides against everything.

I also wanted to try an all forward torp ship to. That sounds easier than the Cannon/Bank ship because you can dodge and weave while you wait for cooldown.

So any adivce on how to use a ship that is stuck getting punched in the face? Also I just dont know how effective 4 cannons/banks + 2-4 turrets will be vs 7-8 beams.

Unknown · October 2016

This content has been removed.

ikonn · October 2016

IMO, yes, single cannons are a VERY viable option.

Granted, DC and DHC have A LOT more punch, but if you are not in a position to where they are firing, they do you no good. Single cannons have a 180 degree arc and that is more than sufficient of an arc to keep them trained on the target. Combine them with turrets on the back, and you will have copious amounts of raindrops of death flying toward your enemy(ies).

Something else to consider... DC and DHC have a slower fire-rate. If your build relies on procs, you have more opportunities for those procs to happen by the single cannons and their faster fire rate i.e. the Kool Aid build

Single cannons on the front and turrets on the back, coupled with Embassy Plasma Consoles, and the Temporal Specialization make for some interesting builds centered around weapons that do DoT like the Thoron Induced Polaron or Plasma weapons.

casualsto · October 2016

ixionveridian wrote: »

IMO, yes, single cannons are a VERY viable option.

Granted, DC and DHC have A LOT more punch, but if you are not in a position to where they are firing, they do you no good. Single cannons have a 180 degree arc and that is more than sufficient of an arc to keep them trained on the target. Combine them with turrets on the back, and you will have copious amounts of raindrops of death flying toward your enemy(ies).

Something else to consider... DC and DHC have a slower fire-rate. If your build relies on procs, you have more opportunities for those procs to happen by the single cannons and their faster fire rate i.e. the Kool Aid build Single cannons on the front and turrets on the back, coupled with Embassy Plasma Consoles, and the Temporal Specialization make for some interesting builds centered around weapons that do DoT like the Thoron Induced Polaron or Plasma weapons.

This would be an awesome setup to try with the Probability manipulation-centered builds or even with the tactical-heavy-ones. The amazing possibilities of heavy-armed weapons with plasma doping+protonic polaron on an exotic-hybrid build can pull up amazing dps on paper if the ship has 4 or 5 fore and 3 to 4 in the aft as proc-makers and more than 2 sci slots to plasma-dope with [prtg]. Add a GW and OSS and everyone gets an arbiter/kurak/mogai and lets hell loose with both exotic and weaponry damage.

It brings protonic polaron back in the game, it brings single cannons back in the game, it mixes the two metas (energy weaponry and exotic damage) and it feeds the trolls that complain about FAW (even if FAW reworking would break the whole game dynamics and if they knew that NON-faw builds parse over 275k dps ...)

It sure is worth trying (especially if you wanna pull some cool damage with some cheaper options than iconian4pc+full vulnerability locators+ crtdx3pen or dmgx3pen (crtd+dmg+pen mixes) and praying your energy weapons won't be showing a sudden *85* level while all weapons fire.- eps won't save you from that one )

thunderfoot · October 2016

I am currently trying out an FT5U Kamarag with Protonic Polaron Single Cannons up front and a T6 Tactical Carrier with Bio Molecular Disruptor Single Cannons up front. So far I have been pleased with the results. I just need to make a few tweaks to my set up to get a better power distribution.

ichaerus1 · October 2016

chastity1337 wrote: »

Single cannon, do they have any use at all? Can you imagine any application in which they would be the best choice?

Granted, anything can be made to work, if you're just building a Barbie Beach Van, but are they ever the optimal choice?

Don't forget about the Long Range Tetryon Burn Cannon. 12km range, and has no damage dropoff due to range ever.

eradicator84 · October 2016

abbandon#8967 wrote: »

So any adivce on how to use a ship that is stuck getting punched in the face?

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Vaadwaur_Manasa_Assault_Escort
Frontal Assault from the Manasa, I use it on every cannon build I make for this exact reason.
Plus making sure TT is on global.

abbandon#8967 wrote: »

Also I just dont know how effective 4 cannons/banks + 2-4 turrets will be vs 7-8 beams.

One energy appropriate omni beam plus the KCB + however many turrets to fill left over rear slots is my usual play.
Omni and KCB will outperform any turrets even if buffed with crf/csv.

revanindustries · October 2016

The D4x trait is handy for being punched in the face as well. +15% bonus damage when attacking from the front of the target, and a 2 sec weapons offline on the target every 10 sec.

eradicator84 · October 2016

revanindustries wrote: »

The D4x trait is handy for being punched in the face as well. +15% bonus damage when attacking from the front of the target, and a 2 sec weapons offline on the target every 10 sec.

That one presumes you're punching THEM in the face.
Minor detail but worth pointing out.

captainfoucault · November 2016

Single cannon builds are totally viable (been running a phaser cannon only cruiser build on my AoY alt), even at endgame. IMO the only real issue with is that you're basically stuck with using nothing but basic/lockbox/rep store cannons if you run it on anything but an escort, since there is a grand total of one weapon set that works with them, and it's iffy.

chastity1337 · November 2016

captainfoucault wrote: »

Single cannon builds are totally viable (been running a phaser cannon only cruiser build on my AoY alt), even at endgame. IMO the only real issue with is that you're basically stuck with using nothing but basic/lockbox/rep store cannons if you run it on anything but an escort, since there is a grand total of one weapon set that works with them, and it's iffy.

Good point. I think if I was going to try it, I would build my own and look for [Rapid] or [Pen]

eradicator84 · November 2016

captainfoucault wrote: »

Single cannon builds are totally viable (been running a phaser cannon only cruiser build on my AoY alt), even at endgame. IMO the only real issue with is that you're basically stuck with using nothing but basic/lockbox/rep store cannons if you run it on anything but an escort, since there is a grand total of one weapon set that works with them, and it's iffy.

Just works with, or actually also has a single cannon in the set?
Either way I can think of more than one rep set

Weapon sets that actually have a single cannon in them? At least 3.
Apex Predator (Its a heavy cannon, but it's a singular one)
Protonic Arsnel (Needs all 3 set pieces for it to benefit from CRF/CSV though)
Silent Enemy (Its a heavy cannon, but it's a singular one)

Sets that also "work" with a single cannon build (pretty much anything with a turret in the set)
Counter Command Ordinance
Council Defense Pact
Krenim Temporal Manipulation
Chronometric Calculations

But yes, Cryptic need to start getting off the DHC gravy train for sets and start making single cannons and dual non-heavy cannons worthy again. Some new sets that focus on boosting energy type proc chances would be a nice start.
As I've discussed in the Kool-Aid thread, protonic polarons have an unfair advantage in this regard (can get up to 12.5% proc chance!). The Counter command set does a good job with it's extra +2% bonus for proc rates (for 4.5% total). We need to see more of this for all the other energy types too imo.

Would be a good area for them to explore as proc rates apart from 1-2 unique energy types and the counter command set haven't really been explored. They're just coming off Crits for everything, seem to be exploring Pen stuff atm. Procs could be the next big thing to do, and single/dual cannons would be perfect for inclusion in set pieces.

chastity1337 · November 2016

That's an interesting perspective, Eradicator. Thanks for the info.

n7ltrobbiesan · November 2016

I got chewed for saying this in another thread, but as a new player on console, I tried all beam build and found it underwhelming. I changed it up to canons+beam+torp on fore, and turrets+beam on back, and love it. The cool part is being able to have all weapons firing on the enemy, and taking them down that much faster.

I found myself able to take out enemy ships faster than just using a beamboat. Granted, this is early in the game and I know there are much greater weps and consoles to come yet. For a new player, I recommend trying different builds including this one to see it does for you.

Single cannon, ever a good choice?

Comments